A different side of Thailand

[Nakmuay887]

1 minute ago, rumak said:

Khun Nak .    A major part of winning a boxing match is often the strategy one uses, much the

same as on forums.   You surely will wear yourself out trying to duke it out with those (majority) whose opinions will never change.   You being a bit younger may have more changes to come, in the meantime keep doing what you feel is right.  

I do advise you that hitting your head against a brick wall can cause brain damage   ????

It's very difficult to debate points with a few members who ignore what they don't like or have no rebuttal for. They just brush over it and attempt to turn the conversation back to whatever point they are trying to get across. 

 

I'll happily address any questions anyone may have, and the negative points, I've answered every single one as far as I know. I won't brush over what I feel is rubbish and untrue and ignore it like these said posters are doing. I'm not deluded and I don't stick my nose into situations where I am clueless and floundering around trying to spew garbage and cheery pick articles for my own benefit. 

 

Some members have suggested different activities, I'm all ears. 

 

Others have suggested that there is funding for kids like this. Where? (there isn't) 

 

Sitting in your condo in Bangkok or Pattaya and trying to white knight about something you are clueless about just screams arrogance. Comparing Tak to Isaan is even more ignorant. Last time I checked Issan didn't have an issue with a few hundred thousand kids running around with no citizenship and no family members. I didn't know Issan was packed top to bottom with hundreds of thousands of people living in refugee camps like Tak is.

 

 I'll happily address any other negatives and reiterate what I can. But I'll have to ignore those lacking common sense, and those who are blatantly wrong or misinformed. 

[InsertNameHere]

This is what we need to see on here more of this as these younger kids are the future of Thailand in or out of politics. Thai land needs more of this all over. Nice pictures! 

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, Nakmuay887 said:

I'll happily address any other negatives and reiterate what I can. But I'll have to ignore those lacking common sense, and those who are blatantly wrong or misinformed.

good luck, should keep you busy anyway   555    PLEASE remember to keep a sense of humor :

""I think the next best thing to solving a problem is finding some humor in it." –Frank A. Clark

 

i don't think its possible to convince people on the internet.   Just invite them to come and see for themselves.   Actually,  i once thought of doing just that ...... then Mrs. Rumak politely reminded me  " bah ru plao "       (are you crazy ! )

 

you can also try the "rope a dope"  with a poster or two   

 

 

[UbonThani]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

It is funded. It is no worse than some of the rural programs in Issan. However, in this case the funding comes from foreign donors. Accompanying that, are  basic health programs including vaccinations.

You are  promoting yourself as some great savior of these children.  You don't fool me. 

 

Think you are confused.

[Gecko123]

OP:

Can you just address again the fundamental question about the safety of Thai boxing. Is it your position that Thai boxing doesn't present an elevated risk of head injury and that there are no legitimate medical concerns about minors engaging in the sport? These videos seem to suggest otherwise. What am I missing?

 

 

 

[namatjira]

1 hour ago, Nakmuay887 said:

I never knew that Ali lived and fought in Thailand. Any idea of which Camp? Was this before or after his western boxing career? Must have been tough for him to find fights vs the thai's considering he was around 230 lbs at his best. 

 

I applaud you for teaching me something new. 

 

Two different sports, had you read the majority of the thread you'd understand that. Or then again, you likely wouldn't. 

I have read the majority of the thread, most of it is self gratification on your part, look at me I teach kids to box.....wow champ.

a blow to the head is a blow to the head, boxing or kick boxing.

get a flying kick to the head is not a good thing to be on the end of.

teach them to use their brains to think, instead of glorifying you yourself and the sport that will ultimately serious damage some of them for life , all for an entertainment dollar...get real man.

Edited February 13, 2020 by namatjira

[CharlieH]

A high number of abusive/troll posts and responses removed. 

 

No issue with a difference of opinion, but dont make it personal in your remarks and observe forum rules.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

 

 

[DJ54]

Hello Young Man (OP) I read your story when you first started your journey and proud that you stuck with it and indeed is giving these 

children boxers or not an inspiration that life’s ok and you can succeed if you try.... 

 

Thanks for helping the children would like to say more but not good at expressing heart felt thanks... they’ll truly look at life differently... 

 

please update us as you continue on your journey....

[Nakmuay887]

2 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Hello Young Man (OP) I read your story when you first started your journey and proud that you stuck with it and indeed is giving these 

children boxers or not an inspiration that life’s ok and you can succeed if you try.... 

 

Thanks for helping the children would like to say more but not good at expressing heart felt thanks... they’ll truly look at life differently... 

 

please update us as you continue on your journey....

I appreciate you taking the time to write that. Thank you for the kind words 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I remember when the OP appeared on here asking for advice to enable him to stay in Thailand for an extended period to continue his Muay Thai career. ( he got a lot of negative comments then if I remember correctly).

But this didn’t stop him pursuing his dreams and now his love for the Thai/Karen people has given him further strength. 
His achievements so far are truly inspiring, and I personally am overwhelmed to see the dignity he has given to each one of these children. Yes dignity !!, they now have a purpose, a dream, who can begrudge a child a chance in life !!

Keep up the excellent work Joshua !!

[Assurancetourix]

17 hours ago, namatjira said:

I have read the majority of the thread, most of it is self gratification on your part, look at me I teach kids to box.....wow champ.

I too have read everything; and I do not see any glorification of oneself there.
He writes to us what he does for Karen kids who live in Thailand in very precarious conditions without having Thai nationality.
I really have the impression that many members who answered on this thread live here but know nothing or so little about Thailand; if you can follow my reasoning.
These members should already be aware of what life is like in a Karen refugee camp.
They are very far from it and in fact do not want to know.

YES, contact sports can damage the brain;
but NO, you do not know the rules of Thai boxing where the shots are much less important than the way of carrying them;
it is the gesture that counts, not the uppercut.
there are few knockouts in Thai boxing,

Falling from horse, mountain bike, motorcycle at 60 an hour, even with protections, it hurts.
There are Australians on this forum; and I suppose that they find normal the very violent shocks which inflict themselves the players of Australian football but will be indignant knocks knocked during a Thai boxing match?

I already wrote it here, contact sports are not what I like most; I prefer a nice hill descent or a long forest ride on my mountain bike ...
But it would never come to the idea to descend in flame a practitioner of Thai or English boxing or savatte ..
Everyone does the sport they like.
POINT

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

I too have read everything; and I do not see any glorification of oneself there.
He writes to us what he does for Karen kids who live in Thailand in very precarious conditions without having Thai nationality.
I really have the impression that many members who answered on this thread live here but know nothing or so little about Thailand; if you can follow my reasoning.
These members should already be aware of what life is like in a Karen refugee camp.
They are very far from it and in fact do not want to know.

YES, contact sports can damage the brain;
but NO, you do not know the rules of Thai boxing where the shots are much less important than the way of carrying them;
it is the gesture that counts, not the uppercut.
there are few knockouts in Thai boxing,

Falling from horse, mountain bike, motorcycle at 60 an hour, even with protections, it hurts.
There are Australians on this forum; and I suppose that they find normal the very violent shocks which inflict themselves the players of Australian football but will be indignant knocks knocked during a Thai boxing match?

I already wrote it here, contact sports are not what I like most; I prefer a nice hill descent or a long forest ride on my mountain bike ...
But it would never come to the idea to descend in flame a practitioner of Thai or English boxing or savatte ..
Everyone does the sport they like.
POINT

 

I have multiple issues with what you said in the above post, so please bear with me.

 

1. I just went back and carefully reviewed for a second or third time every post on this thread. Not one single post criticized or "flamed" the OP for having chosen to practice muay Thai. Every single poster that was critical focused on the involvement of minors in Thai boxing because of safety concerns, especially potential brain injuries.

 

2. The first defense to criticism that children shouldn't be involved in the sport seems to be that the plight of the Karen refugees is so bleak and their prospects in life are so limited, that any concerns anyone might have about child safety should be ignored because there are so many other pressing needs which need to be addressed, and trade-offs must be made in the interest of expediency. My question would be, who is making that decision on behalf of the minor? My understanding is that in many cases no parent is present to grant (as required by Thai law) permission for the child to compete. If the child is making the decision, can that really be considered informed consent? Not really. If school officials or boxing promoters are making the decision, is the child's welfare the sole interest, or are there conflicts of interest?

 

The other issue I have with the argument the needs of the refugees are so pressing that trivial concerns about potential brain damage down the road ought to be set aside is where do you draw the line? For example, the OP in post #68 made a comment about "women selling themselves to foreigners" being a more pressing social ill. Maybe so, but my question to all the moral relativists out there would be, is there a point where prostitution becomes morally justifiable in response to hardship? Who is making that decision?

 

If you looked at the muay Thai instruction that these kids are receiving in the context of physical education, and ask what's the harm in that, maybe you'd have a point. But there's every indication that this school serves as a farm league for developing Thai boxers who are being systematically funneled into a corporate media, promotion, and gambling apparatus.

 

While a few athletes may reap rich rewards, most don't. I am fully aware that the same can be said about almost any competitive sport, but the question is with the risk of head injury in this sport, who is deciding to take that risk, and whether the decision maker is fully informed of the risks they are assuming and has what's best for the child's welfare as the sole criteria.

 

3. You made the statement that "there are very few knockouts" in muay Thai. You also claim that Thai boxing is much more about finesse than people realize, almost as if you are saying that Thai boxing is akin to American touch football, with very little violence or force behind the punches. The OP makes the statement "most of the damage is superficial." All I can say is that the head blows from kicking, kneeing, elbowing, and punching shown in the videos I posted earlier don't seem to fit that description. If I'm being asked to consider whether my concerns are overblown, I think it's only fair to ask you and others, including the OP, whether they might be in denial about the risks the sport presents esp. to children.

 

Finally, in response to the criticism (not necessarily from you) that unless you're willing to jump on the next bus and come help the OP out, you have no business critiquing the OP's efforts to improve things, I'd say this.

 

First of all, Mae Sot is not the only place in Thailand where poverty can be found. Not everyone on TVF is sitting on a bar stool sipping Leos all day long. Many people have made plenty of charitable contributions to their communities both in terms of time and money. Plenty have raised families here. I have taught school for many years here for little more than token pay. I have tutored kids and made plenty of gifts of money to families in need in my area, and donated money to my local school for supplies. Currently, the Thai government has been cracking down on people teaching or working in Thailand without a permit, which has made volunteering more risky.

 

I think that the issues of potential child exploitation and traumatic brain injury are legitimate concerns which should not be dismissed lightly.

[rumak]

Two very well expressed opinions !  Assurance and Gecko are two posters on this forum that IMO  are intelligent and unusual in that they post with sincerity,  not with the usual " i know it all " attitude.     I agree with BOTH posts ..... even if that seems to be at odds.  

I  am not a fan of overly aggressive sports that often cause injury,  and also can't understand

the thrill of watching cars or cycles going around in circles at death defying speeds ( a bit off topic i admit) .  

As for the OP's  activities I do not see a lot of "look at how great I am"  comments that someone referred to .  The kids he works with ,all kids for that matter,  need to feel appreciated and given some love and something to feel good about.  ( actually I can think of a few posters that seem to have missed that in their childhood) .   OK OK   Mrs rumak is reminding me to be kind.

To summarize,  I like to see that someone ( nakmuay)  is attempting to contribute in a positive way.   And to Gecko's point :   Why can't the "sport"  institute a no kicks or elbows to the head policy for children ?  Well padded gloves would also provide the needed safety for kids.

Winners would be scored on technique and fortitude ,  and after a hearty handshake at the end

the two lads can go off together for some well earned Lao kaow .

Note:  exploitation of kids , women,  and even little old men is never a good thing.  wish we could change the world  ????   

[transam]

10 hours ago, rumak said:

Two very well expressed opinions !  Assurance and Gecko are two posters on this forum that IMO  are intelligent and unusual in that they post with sincerity,  not with the usual " i know it all " attitude.     I agree with BOTH posts ..... even if that seems to be at odds.  

I  am not a fan of overly aggressive sports that often cause injury,  and also can't understand

the thrill of watching cars or cycles going around in circles at death defying speeds ( a bit off topic i admit) .  

As for the OP's  activities I do not see a lot of "look at how great I am"  comments that someone referred to .  The kids he works with ,all kids for that matter,  need to feel appreciated and given some love and something to feel good about.  ( actually I can think of a few posters that seem to have missed that in their childhood) .   OK OK   Mrs rumak is reminding me to be kind.

To summarize,  I like to see that someone ( nakmuay)  is attempting to contribute in a positive way.   And to Gecko's point :   Why can't the "sport"  institute a no kicks or elbows to the head policy for children ?  Well padded gloves would also provide the needed safety for kids.

Winners would be scored on technique and fortitude ,  and after a hearty handshake at the end

the two lads can go off together for some well earned Lao kaow .

Note:  exploitation of kids , women,  and even little old men is never a good thing.  wish we could change the world  ????   

The point for me is, kids skull bones are going through their growing phase and knitting, which completes somewhere near 16/20 years old...To me, kids getting knocked about could do damage that may not be noticed until later in life...  

[rumak]

2 hours ago, transam said:

The point for me is, kids skull bones are going through their growing phase and knitting, which completes somewhere near 16/20 years old...To me, kids getting knocked about could do damage that may not be noticed until later in life...  

I don't know the "scientific" facts,  but surely agree that I do not think blows to the head, or anywhere for that matter,  are good at any age.   Of course i watched some boxing matches in my time,  but the older i got the less I enjoy any forms of violence,  even the 50 or more kills shown in many films.  AND THEN THERE IS REAL LIFE !    wars everywhere ,  killings and rapes and abuse  and.... well, as many here agree, this is one messed up place.  

I guess i should not encourage the OP's choice of activity,  but do understand that kids like physical competitions,  as I did when I was young .  One hit in my farang nose however told me to stick to other sports.   

So i will edit that I am not for boxing,  but hope the OP can find a way to continue to be a "big brother"  to those he works with.

[Yinn]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:05 PM, Nakmuay887 said:

 Are you even slightly aware of how big boxing is in Thailand? 

 

 

Muay Thai is the national sport of Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/13/2020 at 12:24 PM, gunderhill said:

I'll  take that nanny state where the life expectancy is  higher thanks.

LOL. The nanny state that millions are trying to escape from by holidaying in LOS, and many hoping to live in LOS, instead of the so called "safe" nanny state they came from.

For the record, I felt safer in LOS than in London, a bastion of the nanny state.