Can Sanders beat Trump? A growing number of Democratic voters say yes

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

Unfortunately, I think you’re right, the Republicans will have little trouble painting Sanders as a communist,

When trump tries to paint Sanders as a communist, which he is not, What is preventing Sanders from painting trump as an Idiot, which he is?

Or is it that the republicans are the only ones with painting skills? 

[Cory1848]

21 minutes ago, sirineou said:

When trump tries to paint Sanders as a communist, which he is not, What is preventing Sanders from painting trump as an Idiot, which he is?

Or is it that the republicans are the only ones with painting skills? 

Very good question. I, too, would love to see Sanders get in (or Warren; I’d be happy with either), but the Democrats have been calling Trump an idiot for three years and his base remains firm at 35-40 percent, and his support has even gone up since the impeachment. Plus, there are cynics who vote exclusively on what their 401Ks are doing, and those have done well. Plus, there are all the reasons Jingthing mentioned above that favor an incumbent and especially this incumbent. Republicans seem to paint “dirtier” than Democrats do.

 

Other Sanders supporters who are friends of mine say it’s all about getting the vote out, especially young voters, who are often apathetic during elections. Plus, an article I recently read somewhere pointed out the numbers of African Americans in crucial urban areas like Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, Miami, and even Atlanta and Charlotte, who simply didn’t vote last time (was it Hillary?), who could also turn those states around if they voted this time. Sanders even talks about Texas, and why not? I recently spent some time in Texas, and it’s an interesting place. If he can spend more effort generating broader enthusiasm and less time talking about Trump (simply calling Trump an idiot doesn’t work), anything can happen, but it’s risky ...

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I am frightened of a coming Nationwide Super majority of Socialists coming to power in the next 15 years. Statistically undefeatable. As 20 million illegal aliens having babies in the USA make this a coming fact, short of a seizmic realignment. Once the super majority is established socialists always show the rest of us what democracy means to them.

 

Not enough people understand this about America when they compare it to European countries. There are massive disparities between the races and any free healthcare program will include everyone. I don't think for a second that Denmark, for example, could afford their social welfare if they had the same underclass as the US does.

 

To make matters worse the US is actively importing poverty from the 3rd world and there's no sign of that slowing down, Trump or otherwise.

[khaowong1]

Bernie is too old, too marxist and combs his hair with a balloon.  He's never had a civilian job and has no idea how the economy works.  The Democrat National Party would never elect him to the top spot.  

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

If you somehow think that Sanders will suspend civil liberties and open up labor camps in Alaska immediately upon taking office, then you’re seeing ghosts.

Bernie Sanders has no respect for private property. In his mind I owe other people a part of my income because I happened to be born in the same country as them, even if we live 500 miles apart. Who knows how far he'll take that line of thinking

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Bernie Sanders has no respect for private property. In his mind I owe other people a part of my income because I happened to be born in the same country as them, even if we live 500 miles apart. Who knows how far he'll take that line of thinking

How far away were the corporations that are being subsidised ?  

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

How far away were the corporations that are being subsidised ? 

If Bernie had a plan to claw back corporate subsidies then I would support that. If that was his platform to FIRST get back taxes revenue from other areas and then spend it on health care that would be interesting but that's not what's going to happen.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

When trump tries to paint Sanders as a communist, which he is not, What is preventing Sanders from painting trump as an Idiot, which he is?

Or is it that the republicans are the only ones with painting skills? 

More Americans are afraid of commies than are afraid of idiots. 

 

Also what 45 is is already well baked in. 

 

Also 45 is one of the most skilled propagandists in world history. 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, genericptr said:

If Bernie had a plan to claw back corporate subsidies then I would support that. If that was his platform to FIRST get back taxes revenue from other areas and then spend it on health care that would be interesting but that's not what's going to happen.

None of them is running for Emperor, all of them will have to fight congress and powerful special interests to do what they propose.. But at least Bernie will be fighting for us also. And maybe , just maybe, with our support he can win some.

If we allow  Bloomberg to by this election, Who will be buying it next cycle?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I personally don't have any problem with Bernie Sanders, other than concerns about his age, health and ability to win an election over Trump. I'd vote for him if he was the Democratic nominee.

 

However, it's results like the following poll numbers below that I caught on Meet the Press on NBC this past weekend that give me pause about whether, apart from Democrats, he's the guy who's going to be able to win over enough of the REST of the country to win.

 

 

Sixty seven percent of all voters have reservations to very uncomfortable about a candidate who's a "socialist."

 

Fifty seven percent had reservations to very uncomfortable about a candidate who had a recent heart attack, as Sander had. And then there's the age thing, Sanders is 78 and Trump is 73.

 

If Sanders is the Democratic nominee, you can bet that every day between the nomination and the general election day we're all going to hear Trump chanting "Socialist" "Socialist" "Socialist" until the cows come home.

 

So I guess my question is, is the best the Democrats really can do this year is to put forward a presidential candidate who's age 78, coming off a recent heart attack, and has labeled himself a "Democratic Socialist"?

 

Quote

 

Democratic Leaders Willing to Risk Party Damage to Stop Bernie Sanders

Interviews with dozens of Democratic Party officials, including 93 superdelegates, found overwhelming opposition to handing Mr. Sanders the nomination if he fell short of a majority of delegates.

 

WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer, the minority leader, hear constant warnings from allies about congressional losses in November if the party nominates Bernie Sanders for president. Democratic House members share their Sanders fears on text-messaging chains. Bill Clinton, in calls with old friends, vents about the party getting wiped out in the general election.

And officials in the national and state parties are increasingly anxious about splintered primaries on Super Tuesday and beyond, where the liberal Mr. Sanders edges out moderate candidates who collectively win more votes.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/us/politics/democratic-superdelegates.html

 

I'm not sure the U.S., and the world, can survive another four years of Trump.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

Bernie is too old, too marxist and combs his hair with a balloon.  He's never had a civilian job and has no idea how the economy works.  The Democrat National Party would never elect him to the top spot.  

He spent some time working as carpenter. Like Jesus. But word is he wasn't a good one. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Jingthing

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

If you are preaching as a non American citizen, from another Country please stop we are the most ethnically diverse nation on Earth, and people still want to get in. Perfection no, but above others preaching to us? Yes.

Ouch, now I got you where it hurts... ????

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Ouch, now I got you where it hurts... ????

Sorry but do you think non-whites don't have the same rights as whites? I read your comment some pages back and I think that's what you said or were pointing towards.

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More Americans are afraid of commies than are afraid of idiots. 

 

Also what 45 is is already well baked in. 

 

Also 45 is one of the most skilled propagandists in world history. 

If he is such a skilled propagandist why is his approval rating stuck in the 40s. I agree that some of it is baked in but there is a trump fatigue that is not only not  baked in yet but is increasing by the day , once there is a Democratic nominee (who ever it is) I suspect there will be some more baking .

  I agree That more Americans are afraid of commies than Idiots. The thing is that Sanders is not a communist and none of the other candidates have being able to make it stick as hard as they try. What makes trump so much smarter than the other Democratic candidates?

 The phrase to watch during the General is "trump fatigue" My experience with general elections is that the pendulum swings to the opposite side of the spectrum.

Ford to Carter

Carter to Reagan

Reagan to Bush , the only anomaly  

Bush  to Clinton

Clinton to Bush jr

Bush jr to Obama

Obama to trump

do you see a pattern?

Edited February 27, 2020 by sirineou

[rascalman]

Suggest socialists move to China!!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

More Americans are afraid of commies than are afraid of idiots. 

 

Well put... It's totally stupid on the part of the American public at large.

 

But it's probably indeed the truth, and especially when it comes to the presidential race.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

If he is such a skilled propagandist why is his approval rating stuck in the 40s. I agree that some of it is baked in but there is a trump fatigue that is not only not  baked in yet but is increasing by the day , once there is a Democratic nominee (who ever it is) I suspect there will be some more baking .

  I agree That more Americans are afraid of commies than Idiots. The thing is that Sanders is not a communist and none of the other candidates have being able to make it stick as hard as they try. What makes trump so much smarter than the other Democratic candidates?

 The phrase to watch during the General is "trump fatigue" My experience with general elections is that the pendulum swings to the opposite side of the spectrum.

Ford to Carter

Carter to Reagan

Reagan to Bush , the only anomaly  

Bush  to Clinton

Clinton to Bush jr

Bush jr to Obama

Obama to trump

do you see a pattern?

That was very deceptive.

 

You missed:

 

Reagan to Reagan

 

Clinton to Clinton

 

Bush jr to Bush jr

 

Obama to Obama

 

You seemed to be ignoring that incumbents have a massive built in advantage. 

 

You don't want to handicap your chances when your odds are already handicapped.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, notrub said:

Don't forget what happened when Ralph Nader decided to get involved in their election process.  Good guy but the added confusion lead to a bad end.

 

And the truth is Sanders helped scuttle Clinton's presidential campaign 4 years ago. Perhaps not intentionally, but that was the end result and it helped open the door to Trump.

 

Give Sanders credit, he generates a very passionate, ardent core of supporters, and did 4 years ago as well. But after Clinton finally beat him out for the nomination, it was never clear that former Sanders supporters ever really went full-in in supporting Clinton as the ultimate nominee/candidate.

 

Not making any argument here about which was the better candidate 4 years ago. Just reinforcing the point that when you get a divided party electorate like the Dems have right now with two pretty divergent philosophies, it makes it very difficult to then come together with strong energy and enthusiasm for whomever is the ultimate nominee.  One side or the other is always going to feel left out/disenfranchised, unfortunately.

 

To quote President Lincoln: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That was very deceptive.

 

You missed:

 

Reagan to Reagan

 

Clinton to Clinton

 

Bush jr to Bush jr

 

Obama to Obama

 

You seemed to be ignoring that incumbents have a massive built in advantage. 

 

You don't want to handicap your chances when your odds are already handicapped.

 

 

This is not all I said. I also said some other things, I did mention the fatigue factor. It is my fault that I did not expand on that more. 

Incumbents certainly have a built in advantage but I think this time it will be different because of the fatigue factor. I think the fatigue factor will negate and overcome  the incumbent advantage .

I think and i am sure you will agree. that  trump has packed enough drama for three terms in one. Most Americans I talk to had enough of the drama. Let's hope they are enough, and I don't also exist in my own bubble .   

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

Sorry but do you think non-whites don't have the same rights as whites? I read your comment some pages back and I think that's what you said or were pointing towards.

Please read again. I stressed that all humans are equal and have equal rights. There is no place for racism as it is now still in US. ????

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Give Sanders credit, he generates a very passionate, ardent core of supporters, and did 4 years ago as well. But after Clinton finally beat him out for the nomination, it was never clear that former Sanders supporters ever really went full-in in supporting Clinton as the ultimate nominee/candidate.

Very few people went full in with Hillary. I voted for her and then I went home and washed my mouth. 

Truth being, Hillary was a terrible candidate. Bernie did not hand the election to trump , IMO Obama did when he made a deal with the Clintons for their support and political machine. Do you really think Biden did not want to run, especially after his dying son wanted him to run? I imagine a younger energetic Biden without Hillary's baggage and without the Comey's last minute  Surprise. If Hillary could not win over some of the Sanders supporters was not the fault of Sanders,

The fault lays at Hillary's feet. Go back to the threads running during the democratic primary, I consistently said what was going to happen to Hillary and that's exactly what happen 

(the search function in this forum is atrocious, I tried to find some of these threads but I was unsuccessful,  If anyone can, please send me a link)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Very few people went full in with Hillary. I voted for her and then I went home and washed my mouth. 

Truth being, Hillary was a terrible candidate. Bernie did not hand the election to trump , IMO Obama did when he made a deal with the Clintons for their support and political machine. Do you really think Biden did not want to run, especially after his dying son wanted him to run? I imagine a younger energetic Biden without Hillary's baggage and without the Comey's last minute  Surprise. If Hillary could not win over some of the Sanders supporters was not the fault of Sanders,

The fault lays at Hillary's feet. Go back to the threads running during the democratic primary, I consistently said what was going to happen to Hillary and that's exactly what happen 

(the search function in this forum is atrocious, I tried to find some of these threads but I was unsuccessful,  If anyone can, please send me a link)

 

She was a flawed candidate, no doubt. Some of it her fault, some of it not her fault. But my feeling is, if her main adversary hadn't been SO different from her, thing would have gone better post the nomination. She only lost by a small electoral margin. Had the Dems not been SO divided throughout the nominating process, my belief is she might have managed to squeak thru despite it all.

 

PS - the better way to search ThaiVisa is to use Google, as follows:

"site:thaivisa.com" followed by whatever search terms you want....

Vastly better than using TVF's own built-in search function, if you can actually call it that.

 

 

[Monomial]

3 hours ago, genericptr said:

If Bernie had a plan to claw back corporate subsidies then I would support that. If that was his platform to FIRST get back taxes revenue from other areas and then spend it on health care that would be interesting but that's not what's going to happen.

 

And yet this is exactly what the American people want. Done correctly, this is precisely the strategy that gives Bernie a chance at the Whitehouse. Paint bankers, Wall Street and large corporations as the reason for all America's woes, just as Trump has blamed the immigrants. In fact, I think this is the only thing that can possibly happen if he has any desire to win. Nobody is saying it will be popular within the party elite, but it will be effective in America's heartlands where the presidency is decided.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

PS - the better way to search ThaiVisa is to use Google, as follows:

"site:thaivisa.com" followed by whatever search terms you want....

Vastly better than using TVF's own built-in search function, if you can actually call it that.

Wow Thanks

Over 10 years in this forum and it never occurred to me.

I just did a search as you suggested and and immediately found what I was looking for

 

This is what i said in April 12 2015 as you can see I am consistent.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by sirineou

[lannarebirth]

12 hours ago, soalbundy said:

In a normal civilised country a dead cat could defeat Trump

That Bernie can't defeat Trump isn't what the DNC is worried about. They know he can defeat Trump. That's what they're afraid of.  What they are worried about is that Bernie's going to clean house of the thousands of operatives that have an incestuous relationship with the DNC and the money it raises. That money they raise is meant to buy outcomes for their donors. Much of that goes out the window with a Bernie victory. No more donations from wealthy donors and no more fat jobs to do the bidding of those donors. The DNC would much rather Trump wins than give up this gravy train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Looking at Bernie and taking his heart attack into account, any vote for Bernie must also be a vote for his VP to become president.

I'd say the same goes for any of the remaining crew on both sides. I think Biden would choose Yang. Not sure what Bernie would do and it looks like Trump's throwing Pence (and us) under the bus by naming him leader of the US's coronavirus  defensive. I heard he"s "praying on it".

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I also recall no Catholic had won in the past before KENNEDY

Biden made a remark about going to Catholic school in the debate a few days ago.  I wonder if he meant to let slip the C-word that night or it was off the top of his head. 

Having been put through the Catholic thing when I was a kid, and recalling the JFK election controversy about it (yeah, I'm that old), I never fully understood what US Christians have against them.  I've asked a number of people over the years and haven't had a consistent answer.

 

For what it's worth, a few years back someone did a poll of US fundamentalist Christians and asked other than someone of your own religious group who would you most willingly accept for president (the list included other Christian sects); to the surprise of the pollster (and me) the answer was by and far Jewish.  I tried some searching on this and I had no luck, if anyone can find mention of this poll on the net (from a reliable source) please give the link.  I'm fairly sure I heard about it before the 2016 campaign.

 

BTW Biden is known in DC for his St Patrick's Day breakfast, all Irish who work on Capitol Hill (including members of the press) are invited.  Let's see if that gets publicity this election year.

 

 

[bendejo]

27 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I'd say the same goes for any of the remaining crew on both sides. I think Biden would choose Yang. Not sure what Bernie would do and it looks like Trump's throwing Pence (and us) under the bus by naming him leader of the US's coronavirus  defensive. I heard he"s "praying on it".

Sanders rips Pence: His last response to an epidemic was to 'pray' it away

 

Similar to Rick Scott's way of dealing with hurricanes.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

I'd say the same goes for any of the remaining crew on both sides. I think Biden would choose Yang. Not sure what Bernie would do and it looks like Trump's throwing Pence (and us) under the bus by naming him leader of the US's coronavirus  defensive. I heard he"s "praying on it".

BTW, Bloomberg already floated a VP slot to Yang, who declined the invitation, per today's WSJ article.

[metisdead]

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