Irregular monthly deposit and combination for retirement extension

[NoshowJones]

47 minutes ago, stouricks said:

I got him to write it down and stamp and sign it.

Ubon Joe and others seem to agree that as long as the total annual income plus your dosh in the bank is over 800k, Robert's your Father's brother. That's what the 'combination' method means.

It is well known here that different IOs and even some officers have their own interpretation of the rules.

[stouricks]

59 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Why do you correct me about a few days apart. I didn't  write that ? Go look, I said 12 monthly deposits is needed. If your deposit falls into the next month, say as the bank delayed the deposit and no record of a deposit in that one month. Your DISQUALIFIED. 

I re-read your earlier post where you said 'miss one by one day   DISQUALIFIED', which is NOT the case, unless that one day is the first day of a month and you missed a transfer the month before eg you send January's money on 1st Feb. Then you could be disqualified.

[gk10002000]

Set up a "buffer" checking account.  Have your pension or dividends or whatever monies go into that.  Then have the transfers done around the middle of the month.  That avoids any chance of a few days or a weekend or a holiday or some snafu  messing things up and monies missing the end of the month, or two transfers happening in the same month, etc.. 

[earlinclaifornia]

15 hours ago, stouricks said:

I re-read your earlier post where you said 'miss one by one day   DISQUALIFIED', which is NOT the case, unless that one day is the first day of a month and you missed a transfer the month before eg you send January's money on 1st Feb. Then you could be disqualified.

Yes what I said is true and I can verify as I was disqualfied for missing by 24 hours due to a law change effected in USA with Bangkok Bank. One month without and next month with two, first of the month. I was warning this is possible.

[stouricks]

7 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Yes what I said is true and I can verify as I was disqualfied for missing by 24 hours due to a law change effected in USA with Bangkok Bank. One month without and next month with two, first of the month. I was warning this is possible.

Then it would be a good idea to send your remittances on say 14th of each month.

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Yes what I said is true and I can verify as I was disqualfied for missing by 24 hours due to a law change effected in USA with Bangkok Bank. One month without and next month with two, first of the month. I was warning this is possible.

Yes, that's why it is recommended not to do your monthly-income transfers at the end of the month.  A delay in processing or a bank holiday/weekend might result in the funds arriving in the next month.

And the requirement is that the minimum amount has been transferred - with foreign origins proven - in EACH and EVERY of the 12 months.

Obviously, it is stupid and petty to deny your extension for such a reason but there are indeed people that were denied their application for the above, forcing them to exit the country and re-apply for a new Visa.

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, that's why it is recommended not to do your monthly-income transfers at the end of the month.  A delay in processing or a bank holiday/weekend might result in the funds arriving in the next month.

Some people having their pension payments direct deposited have no control over when they arrive.

I think some cases of them being late or early last year was when people did not have a full year of transfers to show a pattern of the transfers coming in.

When I did my extension last year I had one transfer that came in early due to a holiday back home that caused it to arrive on the last day of the month instead of the 3rd and they said nothing about it. But I had 13 months of bank statements showing the transfers coming on the 3rd of the month with a few arriving as early as the first plus a bank book showing over 2 years of transfers. I was prepared to show them a calendar showing that Monday the 3rd was a holiday if needed.

I am aware of a person who had payments that normally arrive on the 1st of the month but when the 1st was a weekend they came in on the 30th or 31st of the month and was able to get his extension.

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Some people having their pension payments direct deposited have no control over when they arrive.

I think some cases of them being late or early last year was when people did not have a full year of transfers to show a pattern of the transfers coming in.

...

Instead of having your pension payments directly deposited in your thai bank-account, would it not be possible to have them transferred to your foreign home-country bank-account.  That would give you control on when to transfer funds to your thai bank-account.  Probably it would mean a bit more paper-work to prove that the source of those monthly transfers are indeed your pension payments. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Instead of having your pension payments directly deposited in your thai bank-account, would it not be possible to have them transferred to your foreign home-country bank-account.  That would give you control on when to transfer funds to your thai bank-account.  Probably it would mean a bit more paper-work to prove that the source of those monthly transfers are indeed your pension payments. 

That could be done for an additional cost to do the transfers. Plus having to arrange every transfer.

It costs me about $12 a month to have my payments come in automatically every month.

The one I had come in early was a anomaly that only happens about every 7 years when the first Monday of the month is the 3rd.

[laosnative]

On 3/1/2020 at 7:25 PM, ubonjoe said:

The combination is still allowed for extensions based upon retirement. It does not matter if the income is proven by your embassy or monthly transfers into a Thai bank.

There is no requirement for the income to total 800k baht for the year. It is a minimum of 65k baht monthly that totals to 780k baht.

 

yes....

I fell foul by sending, firstly, a test transfer of less than 65,000, intending to cover that shortfall in my subsequent transfers to make up a yearly income of well in excess of what was needed to supplement my 500,000 in a Thai account....For the Combo method.

My I.O. decided to multiply the initial sum by 12, and declare.....Not enough.....

Ignoring the the much larger later transfers......That did it for me .......Bye Bye thailand.

 

[laosnative]

2 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

Laos that's astonishing. And astonishing hard luck for you. I think i know the answer ... but i'll ask anyway ... was there no possibility of appealing that to IO manager or somebody else who could add as well as multiply?

No the mindset was .......

take the lowest monthly transfer and multiply it by 12......

I must add that the I.O. I dealt with was the same for my my last 7 retirement extensions, with not a hint of a problem, she did consult with a higher ranking officer, who backed her decision. 

There was no moving from this stance although they could see the total was well in excess of that which I required to add to my 500.000 baht, deposited in Kasikorn bank where it has been for years. for the combo method.

I was gobsmacked at the response, and, rather than carry on with my futile logic, I walked away from the desk, trying to be calm but failing, looked out of the window, and made the decision, that this was the straw that broke the camels back.

I do not mind admitting that in the presence of my girlfriend, who had tried to explain in Thai, I was almost in tears borne mainly of frustration at the total lunacy of the whole thing.........I spent up all my thai savings whilst waiting for my rental contract to finish, and took great pleasure in doing so, saving loads on transfer fees and exchange rate losses. 

The rest is history as I speak from my new home.

Edited March 3, 2020 by laosnative

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

Laos that's astonishing. And astonishing hard luck for you. I think i know the answer ... but i'll ask anyway ... was there no possibility of appealing that to IO manager or somebody else who could add as well as multiply?

The idea about the combination method is when not having at least 65k per month,but maybe only 50k per month. Then it's 12 x 50k = 600k + 200k in the bank = 800k. A person with a pension doesn't have 36k one month and then 52k next month. Understand? A pension is normally same every month,maybe it differs a little. Try to understand how it works and how immigration reason. It's quite simple. 

[laosnative]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The idea about the combination method is when not having at least 65k per month,but maybe only 50k per month. Then it's 12 x 50k = 600k + 200k in the bank = 800k. A person with a pension doesn't have 36k one month and then 52k next month. Understand? A pension is normally same every month,maybe it differs a little. Try to understand how it works and how immigration reason. It's quite simple. 

Yes Max we get that...........

The mistake I made, which had the consequences I outlined was that It was my first time trying a Swift transfer, so I transferred an amount lower than 300,000 divided by 12, as a test transfer......thinking that it would be easy to make bigger payments for the remaining 11 months to reach the 300,000, threshold to add to the 500,000 in the bank.

I hoestly believed that the yearly total divided by 12 would be Ok.

My bad ....It is obviously easier for the I.O. to multiple one figure by 12 and ignore the others, than to divide a total by 12.......I understand where you are coming from with regards to pension monthly amounts, but I had more than enough to meet the amount......

There is no thinking outside the box, and little or no consistency, Blame me by all means, it is my fault for thinking that there would be some rational thinking involved by these people, who have great control over our lives in Thailand.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

Do i understand wrong? Is the combination method usually allowed for retirement but usually not allowed for marriage or what?

The combination option is in the written rules for an extension of stay based upon retirement.

There is no allowance for the combination option in the police order for an extension of stay based upon marriage. But a average income of 40k baht per month for a year is allowed (not allowed for retirement).

[Robbie63]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:22 AM, stouricks said:

No Earl, your foreign transfers IN can be a few days apart, but roughly better to be the same week each month. More importantly it must be shown as an FTT (Bangkok Bank) meaning Foreign Telegraphic Transfer, although there are some posts last year saying that their IO would accept it as long as you could show the 'paper trail' from abroad.

Hey Everyone just weighing in on the transfer topic. This about using Transfer Wise to send money to Thailand. When I sent my transfers I did get The FTT Code twice but got these other codes also. I was reading a post and it said that when you chose options for sending transfers pick long term stay in Thailand. I think before I selected Living Expenses and something else. So March 1 transfer I selected Long Term Stay Thailand and updated my Bangkok Bank Passbook and I got the FTT Code. I will repeat tomorrow for my second transfer to confirm. Hang in there Everyone.This is only for Bangkok Bank with Transfer Wise

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, Robbie63 said:

Hey Everyone just weighing in on the transfer topic. This about using Transfer Wise to send money to Thailand.

Some info on TransferWise > https://transferwise.com

TransferWise is a very fast and inexpensive way to transfer funds from your foreign bank-account to a thai bank-account.  Many TVF members are making use of that service, and there are many threads on it on the Forum.

TransferWise uses the mid-exchange rate (which is the actual conversion rate and not the inflated rate that banks charge you) and charges a relatively small fee for its service.

Their 'trick' is that they do not physically transfer your funds, but they have agreements with partner-banks in Thailand and your transfer is actually a domestic transfer, as it is their partner-bank that transfers the funds to your bank-account.

When you need to prove to your Immigration Office that the funds on your thai bank-account originated from abroad, that can cause a problem.

However, the transfer WILL show up in your Thai bank account as an International Transfer WHEN:

1. your account is from one of the three partner banks TW use (Bangkok bank, Kasikorn bank and TMB)

2. you have (previously) requested that TW tag that bank as your preferred direct transfer route (you only have to do this once, NOT for every transfer)

3. you designate that account as the receiving Thai account on your transfer applications and

4. you choose the "long term stay" in Thailand option in the reason for transfer in your transfer applications.

If your Thai bank-account is NOT with one of the three partner banks TW WILL still route your transfer via one of those three banks, to be forwarded (immediately) to your own account. But, because the final leg of the transfer is between two Thai banks the code shown in your own bank account will be a "local transfer" code and NOT an International Transfer.

So when it is required to prove to IO that the funds on your thai bank-account originated from abroad, simply make sure that the 4 conditions have been fulfilled the first time you do a test-transfer and check whether the correct international transfer-code appears next to the transaction in your bank-book.  If that's the case, you can from then on use TransferWise to do all your foreign transfers to that thai bank-account and they will show up as international transfers.

Note: if instead of going directly to your preferred account, should your transfer be routed initially via one of TW's other partner banks that partner bank will, on request, issue a Credit Advice Receipt to confirm the transfer originated from abroad. Just supply them with the relevant TW PDF for that transfer plus details of your own Thai bank account. It takes them about a week to supply the receipt and Kasikorn charge 200 baht for the service. A TVF member reported that one time he needed to use TMB and there was no charge at all. They also arranged for the receipt to be sent to this local TMB branch for him to collect (a first class service).

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Peter Denis

[stouricks]

37 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The combination option is in the written rules for an extension of stay based upon retirement.

There is no allowance for the combination option in the police order for an extension of stay based upon marriage. But a average income of 40k baht per month for a year is allowed (not allowed for retirement).

Is it an AVERAGE income or a MINIMUM income of 40k per month?

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, stouricks said:

Is it an AVERAGE income or a MINIMUM income of 40k per month?

It is a monthly income of at least 40k or a average income of 40k baht for the past year which means you must have a total income of at least 480k baht for the year.

From clause 2.18 of the police order.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

[stouricks]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is a monthly income of at least 40k or a average income of 40k baht for the past year which means you must have a total income of at least 480k baht for the year.

From clause 2.18 of the police order.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

An AVERAGE income of 40k could consist of 20k one month and 60k the next. So it is a MINIMUM = NO LESS than, of 40k.

[Max69xl]

42 minutes ago, Robbie63 said:

Hey Everyone just weighing in on the transfer topic. This about using Transfer Wise to send money to Thailand. When I sent my transfers I did get The FTT Code twice but got these other codes also. I was reading a post and it said that when you chose options for sending transfers pick long term stay in Thailand. I think before I selected Living Expenses and something else. So March 1 transfer I selected Long Term Stay Thailand and updated my Bangkok Bank Passbook and I got the FTT Code. I will repeat tomorrow for my second transfer to confirm. Hang in there Everyone.This is only for Bangkok Bank with Transfer Wise

The reason "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" was created by TW because of the need of the FTT bank code for expats. That reason must be used to be sure you're getting correct code when banking with Bangkok Bank.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, stouricks said:

An AVERAGE income of 40k could consist of 20k one month and 60k the next. So it is a MINIMUM = NO LESS than, of 40k.

An average income of minimum 40K is accepted (grand total of transfers over the 12 months divided by 12).  The reason being that you can have a work permit when being married to a thai national, and your income might therefore fluctuate from one month to another.

[Robbie63]

13 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The reason "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" was created by TW because of the need of the FTT bank code for expats. That reason must be used to be sure you're getting correct code when banking with Bangkok Bank.

Thank you for for making that clear. Thanks Peter also I had read that in your post. One less worry now.

[zoza]

44 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The reason "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" was created by TW because of the need of the FTT bank code for expats. That reason must be used to be sure you're getting correct code when banking with Bangkok Bank.

I chose ''Funds for long term stay'' and still get ''Dummy Branch'' with Kasikorn, I am thinking of switching to Bangkok Bank, but then Immigration stopped issuing  Resident certificates for Bank.

now Immigration complain when you switch to extension due to marriage,

too many hoops, to please immigration,do they think we need something to occupy us day in day out

[laosnative]

3 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

 

(1) Laosnative - thanks for the further detail on your experience ... if i was in your shoes i would probably do exactly the same thing ... first time using a new system, transfer a small amount, see it works then try a normal amount.

 

(2) Max - Victim-blaming Laos is unhelpful and unpleasant to read, it's very obvious even to a newbie like me that he is the victim of a loopy system, administered in this case by a lightweight IO whose skills are limited to multiply and stop short of add and divide. In any other environment the IO would be shown the door, not his customer. So how about showing a bit more empathy? Laos copped it yesterday, it may be you tomorrow and may be me later this year. Karma. It's quite simple.

Tokyo....you are spot on in your summarisation.

None of us are safe from indiscrimate interpretaion of the the rules.

I must say that this situation was a direct result of my Embassy ceasing to issue the letter, showing my monthly income, with original statements, provided by me as proof of this income, and good for purpose for many years of extensions.

I thank you for your understanding, and wish you all the best.