Buying gold bars (or not)

[moogradod]

I went to my small branch of Bangkok Bank in Pattaya today requesting to buy some gold bars for a 7 digit amount. They do not only not sell it, they told me that no bank in Thailand does. I should go to a gold shop. I went then to ICBC (being a non Thai bank) and they said the same.

 

But I neither trust a gold shop nor do I want to get "24 or 23 Karat" purity in Baht quantities. Required is the standard gold purity for gold bars in gram - which I would get right away in every bigger bank in Zurich. Obviously not in Thailand. But I can hardly believe it.

 

Can anybody confirm if this is true ? Or even better give some advice where I can buy some 100g gold bars from a trusted source with international standard purity, certificate etc. ? This is possible in Thailand - or is it not ?

Edited March 3, 2020 by moogradod

[Surelynot]

I'd be thinking of selling not buying. 

[Airalee]

This is pretty much it when it comes to what you’re looking for.  Only deal in Kilos from what they told me over the phone.  But as you’re spending “7 digits”...no problem.

 

https://www.huasengheng.com/gold-bar/gold-bar-99-99

Edited March 3, 2020 by Airalee

[englishoak]

Below is the best your going to get in Thailand re bars but they are 99.9% and i think look rather nicer than flat shapeless ones we are used to, they used to sell them in bht weight 1, 2, 5 or 10. Generally the big and busy shops are the best bet. As with all gold unless your an assayer your taking the usual chance when purchasing. I would only go to the best shops in Yaoworat Road, Chinatown that guarantee quality  for any gold bars or jewellery and have the royal seal of approval, Hua seng heng i believe is one and there are a few more, perhaps someone here might name the others.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by englishoak

[DaRoadrunner]

And just where are you going to keep all this physical gold? (Not that we want to know so we can break in to your place one night). Why not buy a gold ETF online?

[moogradod]

46 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

And just where are you going to keep all this physical gold? (Not that we want to know so we can break in to your place one night). Why not buy a gold ETF online?

You are right if it were for investment purposes. But this exercise is purely to have a secure (as much as can be) "amount" just in case everything else is loosing value (be it a bancruptcy of a bank or even a state or something similarly nasty). So this value being in physical shape is part of the plan. The gold is kept in a secure environment.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

This is pretty much it when it comes to what you’re looking for.  Only deal in Kilos from what they told me over the phone.  But as you’re spending “7 digits”...no problem.

 

https://www.huasengheng.com/gold-bar/gold-bar-99-99

What you see in the pictures following your link is exactly what I am looking for. The only thing is that a 1kg bar cannot be split if you want to sell part of its value and this is therefore not a practical size. I understand that bars come in all kind of sizes, from a few grams up to around 12kg I think.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

Below is the best your going to get in Thailand re bars but they are 99.9% and i think look rather nicer than flat shapeless ones we are used to, they used to sell them in bht weight 1, 2, 5 or 10. Generally the big and busy shops are the best bet. As with all gold unless your an assayer your taking the usual chance when purchasing. I would only go to the best shops in Yaoworat Road, Chinatown that guarantee quality  for any gold bars or jewellery and have the royal seal of approval, Hua seng heng i believe is one and there are a few more, perhaps someone here might name the others.

 

 

These "bars" look nice - somehow exotic like from hundreds of years ago. But the question remains if they are real throughout and what the gold content is. These ugly bars we Europeans are used to have an identification - might be a bit safer when acquiring - but a bar is quite easy to fake I suppose even taking its relative density into account so it comes down to the trust you have in the supplier anyway.

[Airalee]

8 minutes ago, moogradod said:

What you see in the pictures following your link is exactly what I am looking for. The only thing is that a 1kg bar cannot be split if you want to sell part of its value and this is therefore not a practical size. I understand that bars come in all kind of sizes, from a few grams up to around 12kg I think.

They do...but from what I understand, you can only get the kilo bars here.  I suppose they are practical if you’re a billionaire...not so much for us.  I’ve never seen a 1oz Pamp here in Thailand.  Only the big boys get to play with the globally recognized stuff.  The rest of us are limited to Thai gold.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

Below is the best your going to get in Thailand re bars but they are 99.9% and i think look rather nicer than flat shapeless ones we are used to, they used to sell them in bht weight 1, 2, 5 or 10. Generally the big and busy shops are the best bet. As with all gold unless your an assayer your taking the usual chance when purchasing. I would only go to the best shops in Yaoworat Road, Chinatown that guarantee quality  for any gold bars or jewellery and have the royal seal of approval, Hua seng heng i believe is one and there are a few more, perhaps someone here might name the others.

 

 

The thing about the “Asian” gold seems to be that with the exception of Pandas, nothing will be recognizable outside of the respective country and if you try to take it into a gold shop internationally, they will most likely lowball you as it’s not one of their usual stock items.  Those do look kinda cool though.

[moogradod]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

They do...but from what I understand, you can only get the kilo bars here.  I suppose they are practical if you’re a billionaire...not so much for us.  I’ve never seen a 1oz Pamp here in Thailand.  Only the big boys get to play with the globally recognized stuff.  The rest of us are limited to Thai gold.

I see. Again one thing that you think of as being standard and you not even think about it in Switzerland but buying a globally standardized medium sized gold bar seems impossible here. This is really amazing. I stopped thinking about why this could be.

 

So no gold bar for me it seems. Stick with the gold jewellery of my wife - even this one I do not understand completely. Is it now 24 Karat or 23 Karat ???? ?

Edited March 3, 2020 by moogradod

[englishoak]

I believe those "Chinese bars" are represented in the shape of a hat, or possibly boat probably high ranking or something... apparently this used to be a common bar shape in the later Qing dynasty when trading in silver for opium  with the British. we gave China all our silver for tea then got it back by selling it opium, I have an old silver lovely tarnished kilo Chinese Bar from that era. 

 

Re price in the West. I  at least have never had a problem getting full market price quotes for Chinese gold bars from select Thai gold shops in the UK. The places I use are well versed in global stamps and the ones who they trust ... caveat of course its not 100% but a royal seal approval in a gold shop is as good as your going to get outside a mint. Ive seen millions transacted in visits like it was no big deal and Asians with serious money when it comes to gold are not stupid. Plus there is a gold council in Thailand with registration and licencing. Plus there are authority spot check and licenced shops do purchase and regularly test the competitions jewellery and items quality, if any error or flaw is found its reported most loudly to the appropriate authorities and council  and where possible used to destroy said competition. imo those shops trusted and with the highest quality and guarantee awards would not imo ruin for a relatively small amount their reputation of 100 years + trading. This only applies to the best shops though... 

 

Having said that my rule is, If in doubt dont purchase. ????

[Oxx]

9 hours ago, moogradod said:

this exercise is purely to have a secure (as much as can be) "amount" just in case everything else is loosing value

 

If the world goes to hell in a handcart a tin of baked beans or a handgun is going to be worth more than your bar of gold.  If you're feeling apocalyptic, better to stock up on Heinz and Hecklers.

[mark5335]

12 hours ago, moogradod said:

What you see in the pictures following your link is exactly what I am looking for. The only thing is that a 1kg bar cannot be split if you want to sell part of its value and this is therefore not a practical size. I understand that bars come in all kind of sizes, from a few grams up to around 12kg I think.

Alternatively, take a look at YLG Bullion, one of the largest bullion dealers in Thailand. They have alternative size gold bars:

https://www.ylgbullion.co.th/en/gold-99-99

[Oxx]

10 minutes ago, mark5335 said:

Alternatively, take a look at YLG Bullion ... They have alternative size gold bars:

 

They appear to be very alternative.  Apparently for them 1 oz = 31.1034768 grams.  (It's actually ~28.35 g.)

[manchega]

I have no idea about many of these posters. Yes we can get 99.9% or whatever the typical Euro standard is. Though I reccomend you don't get the big bars you suggest, I think it is the smaller bars that it is not easy to hide lumps of tungsten inside.

good shop will give you certificate ylg is not bad

but still remember the last crash and people were reporting tungsten in those big bars so multiple small will be more useful for you, especially if moving them out of country

[allanos]

If you want exposure to the upside price of physical gold, then gold etf's are the most convenient answer.

 

If you are looking for leverage to a rising gold price, buy the shares of listed quality small miners.

 

Investments in gold, like anything else, are not without downside risk, but gold is looking good in the medium term.

[Antonymous]

Totally understand your reasoning on keeping physical gold.

 

Buying gold in Thailand is quite straightforward.

 

You cannot buy it from a bank. Go to a gold shop. A big one, not the little shops in the tourist areas.

 

Most convenient, I find, is to buy 10 Baht weight bars. The ones in the photo below bought from a shop in Chiang Mai. All bars have markings that identify the shop. The shop you buy from will guarantee to buy it back at a later date. It is simple.

 

Prices and commission rates are shown at every shop and can change several times during the day. The commission on bars is quite small and you CAN negotiate lower commission for larger amounts (say 80 baht weight for example).

 

Don't buy gold jewellery as an investment. Commissions are much higher for the same weight as a bar. But you knew that of course.

 

Tip: when buying a large amount have the gold shop meet you at your bank. Book a private room. They will bring the gold and you'll hand over the cash in a secure environment.

 

 

[Dazinoz]

7 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

Prices and commission rates are shown at every shop and can change several times during the day. The commission on bars is quite small and you CAN negotiate lower commission for larger amounts (say 80 baht weight for example)

I have bought and sold these type bars in Chiang Mai awhile now. I have never paid a commission on 5 baht or greater size bars and never had to bargain. Yes I paid on the 1 and 2 baht bars. Usually buy at one gold shop in Wororot Markets. They charge a 200 baht commission per baht weight on less than 5 baht bars. Sold a 1 baht bar the other day at gold shop in local Big C and they charged 300.

[Number 6]

Go to Singapore. Gold isn't taxed on sale. Trustworthy, honest. You can also get storage there as well. You're crazy to do this in Thailand

[Dazinoz]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Go to Singapore. Gold isn't taxed on sale. Trustworthy, honest. You can also get storage there as well. You're crazy to do this in Thailand

I did this with some silver. Bought 4 x 100 ounce bars. Problem was I couldn't sell them in Chiang Mai had to go back to Singapore.

 

Wanted to sell 1 bar but visited heaps silver shops around Walai Road. They didn't want anything that big. I contacted the company I bought them off and they would buy them back no problem. Problem came when I tried to insure them to ship back. Most would not do and the one transport company that would wanted a fortune. End the end it was cheaper for me to fly there, sell, stay one night and fly back next day.

 

I like to do with Thai gold as it is as easy as going to the bank to get cash.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Dazinoz

[KKr]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

They appear to be very alternative.  Apparently for them 1 oz = 31.1034768 grams.  (It's actually ~28.35 g.)

no comment even, better say nothing at all.

edit:
troy ounce my friend, like in one Kruger Rand, or 20 pennyweights, is what people in these markets are talking about.
One baht weight is in Thailand only, and is a little less than half a Troy ounce. (and of lower purity)

Edited March 4, 2020 by KKr

[TooBigToFit]

They used to have 5 and 10 baht bars in some of the small shops which were bars rather than cups like in the pic someone posted.

[Dazinoz]

7 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

They used to have 5 and 10 baht bars in some of the small shops which were bars rather than cups like in the pic someone posted.

The gold shop I normally deal with had a 20 baht bar the other day as well as the 1s, 2s, 5s and 10s.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Dazinoz

[klauskunkel]

I plan to sell one of my 100gr PAMP Suisse gold bars at Bangkok Assay office tomorrow.

[Oxx]

21 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

I plan to sell one of my 100gr PAMP Suisse gold bars at Bangkok Assay office tomorrow.

 

Surely an assay office only provides services verifying the purity of the product - not a sales service.

[klauskunkel]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Surely an assay office only provides services verifying the purity of the product - not a sales service.

Surawong Branch does

[CH1961]

18 hours ago, moogradod said:

The gold is kept in a secure environment.

I will keep it for you in my new safe ????

[Brunolem]

18 hours ago, moogradod said:

You are right if it were for investment purposes. But this exercise is purely to have a secure (as much as can be) "amount" just in case everything else is loosing value (be it a bancruptcy of a bank or even a state or something similarly nasty). So this value being in physical shape is part of the plan. The gold is kept in a secure environment.

You are perfectly right and I have done the same...and by the way everything IS losing value, has been for a long time, and will do ever more thanks to the insane central banks policies.

 

You can find whatever gold you want, mostly in Bangkok...gold bars of all sizes either in 96.5 or 99.9 purity...check MTS website for example, they have a shop in Chinatown...there is also Ausiris on Silom.

 

Forget ETF, they are as good as the paper that support them.

 

The best security for your physical gold is to never talk about it to anyone...most if not all burglaries are done following a tip, not randomly.

 

 

[sanuk711]

21 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I'd be thinking of selling not buying. 

No its a great time for buying Surelynot, because I sold all my bars last week....so the price-- its bound to go through the roof now .....