Thailand's foreign retirees see their good life slip away

[griffon2011]

On 3/5/2020 at 4:29 PM, aussienam said:

Yes, if there was ever a run on the banks similar to what has occurred in other developing nations and the government blocked withdrawals then we would all be screwed.  And complain you'll be deported LOL.

If the banking system in Thailand is based on Western banks and I am fairly certain that it is, when you deposit money in a checking or savings account you are essentially making a loan to the bank. You then become an unsecured creditor that the bank promises to pay back.  However, in the event of a banking crisis "your" money can be used to try and save the bank (bail-in) and stock of dubious value issued to you as compensation.  Each country is a bit different but the process is basically the same and it all started with Cyprus a few years ago.  Also the amount insured by the Thai version of deposit insurance will drop to 1 million baht this June or July and has been steadily dropping for years.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yhiKtN4dRw

[newnative]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

So you are getting a better exchange rate of perhaps 35thb/1usd.

 

Or do you have so much money that it doesn't matter?

 

Many people did their financial planning but over the years banks have been bailed out (2008), currencies have been devalued and revalued over the years that when you make your plans figure that the current value of the currency you use will only be worth perhaps 50% in 10 years time.

 

You could be lucky and only lose 25% in those 10 years.

    No, I'm not getting any special treatment, even though I am, apparently, a 'hansum man'--I get the same rate as anyone else, more's the pity.  No, I do not have 'so much money it doesn't matter'.  I wish!   I was merely stating that THIS American is not 'suffering'.   Others certainly may be but at least one is not.

    I've been in Thailand almost 10 years and my Thailand history begins with June 2010.  What Thailand was like in the 80's or 90's, what the exchange rate was then, etc., has no relevance for me.  For me, for my relevance, the exchange rate has mostly been around 30 to 32, with I think a brief dip into 28 or 29 and a bump up to 34 something briefly if I am remembering correctly.  If it's above 30 I am happy.  Looks like in June 2010 it was around 32.5 and today it's around 31.4--not a huge swing in 10 years.  Some other expats with other currencies certainly are suffering with a big dip in the rate for their currencies.  I am only speaking of my experience as an American. 

    When I decided to move to Thailand in 2010 the requirement was 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 a month income.  Had I not been able to legitimately meet the requirement, I would not have moved to Thailand. The requirement is still 800,000/65,000 ten years later.

    Like many Americans living here, I have a pension and Social Security.  Both provide COLAs (cost of living adjustments).  So far, the COLAs are easily keeping pace with my lower cost of living in Thailand.  Hence, I am not 'suffering'.  I think that is true for other Americans living here who were able to meet the 800,000/65,000 requirement legitimately when they applied to retire in Thailand.  I will say that if an American is suffering in Thailand things will likely be far worse for him or her in America. 

[RocketDog]

22 hours ago, ozz1 said:

Us Aussies  on the pension have seen our income loose 30 percent on exchange rates but I've been here for long enough to realize you can get by just I don't go out as much as I'm married to a thai and she works she doesn't get much but we are happy and get by try living back in Australia on the pension then you will see how good you have it here with all it's faults it's still a great place to live that's my opinion anyway

Don't hesitate to use some periods if you wish They are free and come with every keyboard They look like this:  ........... 

[the last mohican]

Not only did 2008/9 kill the exchange rate between Bhatt and £ it also saw the beginning of a steeper rise of inflationary prices in Thailand.

We moved back to the UK at the end of 2010 - it was costing us about 30% more, but then it has always been on the slide from the days when you could get over 80 B to the £ almost 20 years ago with a cost of living around half the current. Those were the days!

The truth is that Thailand has been milking tourists and retirees for years. It’s always been said they were a 'nation of whores' - the biggest are the idle and ignorant rich minority at top of the dung pile. Those at the bottom are only compromised by necessity but retain far more dignity.

We still visit Thailand on a semi-regular basis and the other observation is that the 'land of smiles' isn't smiling quite as much these days.

Whilst visitor number from the west rapidly decline the powers that be think they can replace that with tourists from China, Korea and India without realising that model is of reduced benefit to the economy simply because this tends to be group ‘package’ tourism paid for in the country of origin. When they get off the bus it is to eat or stay in pre-booked and paid for accommodation. They don’t spend money 'on the street'. Current virus issues don't make it any better.

The other side of the coin is the cost of production in Thailand is simply pricing them out of the market-place. Inward investment WILL start to fall and the strong Bhatt becomes unsustainable. Even authoritarian government cannot keep the wolf from the door forever.

If companies like Samsung and Toyota are catching a cold, then it's a clear signpost of the direction of travel. Moving to a so called high skilled service economy isn't going to happen either as your average Thai is intellectually compromised compared say with an Indian competitor who already speaks 'English' (although some might dispute the linguistic classification).

Well you only have to look at the cerebrally challenged bureaucracy, the venality and near total absence of any vision or integrity to realise a bright new dawn is not lurking around the corner. Until the system starts promoting its own people on the basis of merit and ability Thailand is doomed to remain a semi-feudal society with beggars at the bottom, profiteers and thieves at the top.

And when do people wake up to reality? When the well has run dry.

 

 

[the last mohican]

1 hour ago, griffon2011 said:

If the banking system in Thailand is based on Western banks and I am fairly certain that it is, when you deposit money in a checking or savings account you are essentially making a loan to the bank. You then become an unsecured creditor that the bank promises to pay back.  However, in the event of a banking crisis "your" money can be used to try and save the bank (bail-in) and stock of dubious value issued to you as compensation.  Each country is a bit different but the process is basically the same and it all started with Cyprus a few years ago.  Also the amount insured by the Thai version of deposit insurance will drop to 1 million baht this June or July and has been steadily dropping for years.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yhiKtN4dRw

I've heard there is an exchange control system operated by the central bank -unlike any other, that creates or controls an artificial exchange rate, but then my neighbour for a couple of years was a senior official there and of such limited mental capacity I wonder.

Nepotism in Thailand has a lot to answer for.

 

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, griffon2011 said:

If the banking system in Thailand is based on Western banks and I am fairly certain that it is, when you deposit money in a checking or savings account you are essentially making a loan to the bank. You then become an unsecured creditor that the bank promises to pay back.  However, in the event of a banking crisis "your" money can be used to try and save the bank (bail-in) and stock of dubious value issued to you as compensation.  Each country is a bit different but the process is basically the same and it all started with Cyprus a few years ago.  Also the amount insured by the Thai version of deposit insurance will drop to 1 million baht this June or July and has been steadily dropping for years.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yhiKtN4dRw

 

Meanwhile in india, one of the biggest banks just collapsed. people can't withdraw their money. 

It can happen easily, everywhere, here too.

 

[Cranky]

What many people fail to realise is that the Thai Baht is not that unusually strong.  Up till the Asian currency crisis in '98 it was pegged at 25 baht to the USD, at the time Sterling was quite weak and a pound bought you just 36 Baht.  The average hotel was about 1000 baht a night (downtown Bangkok 2 star) A beer between 60 - 100, up to 120 in a GG Bar.  Bar fines about 400 with a ST around a grand.  Beer, Hotel & Mongering index reflects inflation in Baht of not much more than 3%, probably less.

 

The crash left the '00s feeling a very cheap paradise with a false sense of security getting 70-90 baht to a pound with little inflation, cheap apartments, rent and just about everything attracted every low-paid low-life on the planet to the meccas of Patts, Patpong, Patong & Nana etc. for cheap anything goes party time.

 

Today is simply the reality of an economic cycle; fact is there are many other countries that are: cleaner, cheaper, less restrictive, better-run, more transparent, safer, better climates, and generally nicer places to be.  As the Thais say "Up to yooo" stay or go.

[cmarshall]

I knew when I planned to retire to Thailand that I was effectively giving up the rights of citizenship which I would only ever enjoy in my home country.  I also knew that anyone whose assets are in one currency while his liabilities are in another will forever be subject to swings in the exchange rates and that those changes in the exchange rate would likely dwarf changes in inflation, which we were all taught was the devil to be feared in retirement.  Nevertheless, we are doing fine now in Thailand.  Renewing a retirement visa on the monthly income method turns out to be quite easy.

 

I don't think that Thailand owes me anything.  The strength of the baht can't be surprising to anyone who understands that 70% of the Thai GDP comes from tourism and exports which produce a trade surplus.  A country with such a scenario will typically have a currency that is rising in value unless the central bank is able to suppress the value.  When the current flight to safety that is driving up the value of the dollar is over the baht will once again face pressure to rise again.

 

 

[bkk6060]

11 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I don't think that Thailand owes me anything.

 

Good clear realistic thinking.

You sound like a mature adult.

[simtemple]

The poor old critters won't need money soon.

 

Coronavirus - Age Data Risk of dying by age group if infected.

80+ years old - 14.8%

70-79 years old - 8.0%

60-69 years old - 3.6%

50-59 years old - 1.3%

40-49 years old - 0.4%

30-39 years old - 0.2%

20-29 years old - 0.2% 1

0-19 years old - 0.2%

0-9 years old - no fatalities

[connda]

On 3/5/2020 at 3:49 PM, webfact said:

Thailand's foreign retirees see their good life slip away

There is nothing much anchoring foreign retirees here unlike those of us married to Thai wives when the Thai wife wishes to live in Thailand and does not want to expatriate herself and the family.
Personally, if I wasn't married I would have packed up a left long ago.  There are better places in this world where expat retirees are welcomed.  Thailand is not one of those places.  

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm....Would affect those retirees / expats that haven’t already moved elsewhere, I suggest?

[Lacessit]

16 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

After nearly 20 years in North Thailand, I slipped away to a good life in Cambodia where there are no complicated Immigration and Financial bureaucratic rules, just simplicity!

Presumably that good life has not included any need for medical treatment there.

[Yadon Toploy]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Presumably that good life has not included any need for medical treatment there.

There's a BNH hospital in Phnom Penh now, state of the art, foreign doctors etc. and matches anything Thailand has. 

 

But the well off in both Thailand and Cambo mostly go to Singapore for their health treatments. 

[Henryford]

7 hours ago, simtemple said:

The poor old critters won't need money soon.

 

Coronavirus - Age Data Risk of dying by age group if infected.

80+ years old - 14.8%

70-79 years old - 8.0%

60-69 years old - 3.6%

50-59 years old - 1.3%

40-49 years old - 0.4%

30-39 years old - 0.2%

20-29 years old - 0.2% 1

0-19 years old - 0.2%

0-9 years old - no fatalities

I would have thought those death percentages apply to ANY normal year even without Corona. Most of the old people who are dying would probably die anyway. 1% of the UK population die every year and i guess that is very low for the young and 5-10% for the elderly.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Henryford

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Yadon Toploy said:

There's a BNH hospital in Phnom Penh now, state of the art, foreign doctors etc. and matches anything Thailand has. 

 

But the well off in both Thailand and Cambo mostly go to Singapore for their health treatments. 

A short post but contains two major errors.

 

1.The best facilities in Phnom Penh do not match the best Thailand has to offer

 

2.The well off in Thailand overwhelmingly remain in Thailand for medical treatment.

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Presumably that good life has not included any need for medical treatment there.

I think those of us who come here to Cambo well recognize the disadvantages. Life is a bunch of trade offs. If the medical issue is acute and traumatic here, I might die. If it isnt that bad, patch me up and send me to Bangkok. Life goes on.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Nyezhov

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Presumably that good life has not included any need for medical treatment there.

Yes it did, especially so in my case being a Type 2 diabetic. I did my homework and here in Siem Reap there are many pharmacies that sell all the medication I require, including insulin, officially "over the counter". In Thailand I had to wait from 2 to 3 hours sat in a queue to see the doctor for a signature to obtain insulin from the hospital pharmacy. Here I get all my medication within 5 minutes! Should the need arise, there is a good choice of private hospitals/clinics in Siem Reap. Of course I would have to pay, just the same in Thailand. I have accident insurance but not general medical insurance being an insulin dependent diabetic. I pay - just as I did in Thailand.

[Misab]

This is a reprint of a 6 - 8 month old article

[dingdongrb]

23 hours ago, AlienHermit66 said:

His post makes it clear that he is talking about a polluted north; down south you die of other causes... Like you can't r...?

WTH are you blabbering about? You're the one that is lacking reading skills.

 

Here is what he wrote:

 

"Unless you live in the far south you'll be dead sooner anyway due to the horrendous air pollution"

 

In fact he doesn't even mention the 'north'....   duhhhhhhhh

[gamini]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:24 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Who writes this stuff? Do they do no research at all?

It been the same for amount for nearly 20 years. No changes. The reason the money has to stay longer in your account is thanks to the cheats who used others to put up the money and inflated thier incomes. 

[Youlike]

On 3/5/2020 at 5:15 PM, simon43 said:

I'm happy that I moved to Laos.  I get 4% more Lao kip for my USD income than last year - sits nicely with my 6% pa interest savings account... ????

Where do they give 6%? Chinese bank maybe?

[Cranky]

9 hours ago, jayboy said:

A short post but contains two major errors.

 

1.The best facilities in Phnom Penh do not match the best Thailand has to offer

 

2.The well off in Thailand overwhelmingly remain in Thailand for medical treatment.

Apart from that it's bang on

[Cranky]

4 hours ago, Youlike said:

Where do they give 6%? Chinese bank maybe?

Cyprus banks were paying 4% in Euros in 2011 versus less than 1% in the Eurozone.  They then closed their doors and wiped everyones balance over 100k Euros - 100k being covered by EU guarantees.  I wonder what guarantees exist in Cambodge and other countries offering way over the odds interest rates.

 

Ever wondered why they offer such good rates?  One word, liquidity - they ain't got enough dosh to lend out at even higher rates so they have to pay over the odds to attract the greater fools that are everywhere - liquidity is provided to people that want to withdraw their cash by new investors pouring in until there aren't any.  

 

Now think of a word that rhymes with Fonzy!  Good luck.

[garyk]

I slipped away, never thought it was that good of a life. A lot of fun though... ????

 

[GinBoy2]

Maybe this is a different question.

 

But maybe most of the now aging expats came and settled when Thailand was a different place. It was cheap, and the fx made it even cheaper.

 

And then there was, without sugar coating it, cheap and easy sex, definitely a plus for middle aged sexpats.

 

But things have moved on. Cost of living in Thailand to the same level you would in West is not much different to what you would pay in the West.

Also the country in general has become harder, a little coarser than it was 20 years ago when I think people were more honest and welcoming. Now it's just money!

 

Many a sexpat ended up marrying a bargirl, a poor woman forced into prostitution through poverty and wanting to provide for their family, and they made good relationships for both.

 

My wife's cousin, a decent woman married a Swede after working in a bar in Phuket nearly 20 years ago.

She's pretty pragmatic about why she did what she did, but she did what she needed to do to suport her family

 

Today that same bargirl is more motivated by ripping off the farang to be able to buy the latest smartphone and name brand bag!

 

Sad turn of events for LoS but I thinks it's the reality

 

 

[Number 6]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:12 PM, BRUFC said:

Yep, you've hit the nail squarely on the head. I use the 65000 baht per month and that which I don't spend I send back to UK and use it the next month within the 65000. So, when the ordure hits the fan ( may or may not, I'm not an expert) I'm down 65000 at the most....others potentially much more. With different anti West signals coming from different Gov. depts it makes sense to me.

That sounds tedious and expensive. You must be on a shoestring. Potentially one if those posters whinging about the timing of bank deposits and failure to procure visa. Two wire transfers a month and you complain the government is doing you? 555

[Number 6]

45 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Today that same bargirl is more motivated by ripping off the farang to be able to buy the latest smartphone and name brand bag!

For these women the game has changed so they have. Men are much more saavy about marrying prostitutes and especially bringing them to home countries. This lot coupled with a group of sexoats and regular visitors know their game and tricks well from first hand experience and internet information. The internet has been good to them too. Multiple bf sending money, camwhoring.

 

Better to get a job in a beer bar or pub, gogo. Hang out and fish for punters on your phone.

 

The girls don't go near the local expats in the pub. They're all over the dumb tourists with their drinks be and try to get barfined asap for as much as possible.

 

They also know in long run, they're better off here near kids. No one interested in their ragged asses anymore.

 

[MaxYakov]

On 3/6/2020 at 6:28 PM, RocketDog said:

On 3/5/2020 at 7:36 PM, ozz1 said:

Us Aussies  on the pension have seen our income loose 30 percent on exchange rates but I've been here for long enough to realize you can get by just I don't go out as much as I'm married to a thai and she works she doesn't get much but we are happy and get by try living back in Australia on the pension then you will see how good you have it here with all it's faults it's still a great place to live that's my opinion anyway

Don't hesitate to use some periods if you wish They are free and come with every keyboard They look like this:  ........... 

Maybe ozz1 is learning Thai to have a better retirement life (to appear to be slightly on-topic) and is unconsciously reverting his written English to scriptio continua.

 

Nexthe'llbejammingwordstogethertosavespacelikelanguageswerebeforethefalloftheromanempirethegoodnewsishemanagedtocapitalizethefirstwordinthefirstsentenceCommasofcouseareoutofthequestion 

 

Note: Scriptio continua does not to work well with modern, word-oriented text editors and word-oriented text stream processing. Yet another reason why I simply love the Thai language (similarly to how I love the Thai exchange rate these days).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by MaxYakov

[AllThaiedUp]

On 3/5/2020 at 4:22 AM, AverageBloke said:

Why do you feel the need to say things that you probably wouldn't dare say in person? It doesn't make you sound worldly or wise, if anything it does the opposite. 

I would have absolutely no problem saying it in person. What makes you assume that I wouldn't.