Make us ventilators to fight coronavirus, UK government asks manufacturers

[billd766]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:43 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Good example. They'll spend untold on a machine that doesn't save a single life, but nothing on preventing things like Corona.

What is likely to be the shelf life and the possible cost of a anti Covid-19 shot?

[billd766]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:30 AM, OKF said:

I heard that the Britsh Government bought land to be able to burry all the dead from that virus. Yes you could call it pragmatic..... I think the way the UK deals with the Virus is worse or similar to Thailand. The UK will end up same or worse then Italy, that is actually clear already looking at statistics. And yes even specialized hospitals already run out of ventilators and have not even had a number of cases. But yeah all those  old people that voted for this Johnson nutter to leave the EU for a better life will soon feel what it means....in my opinion the UK and the US, Thailand and Japan are dealing inresponsible with the issues and they will face the consequences on this soon. BTW Mr. J and Mr. T seem to be brothers(?)

quote "I heard that the Britsh Government bought land to be able to burry all the dead from that virus."

 

But where and when did you hear that?

 

Do you have any links, reports etc confirming what you have said?

On 3/17/2020 at 6:59 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I thought I explained why it's not a good idea to just train a load of people to do a specific task that is normally done by people trained over years to look after sick people. To use the pilot example again, it's possible to train people to fly a plane quite easily, but would you want to fly in a plane when the pilot does not know what to do in an emergency? Anyone could be trained quite quickly to do many surgical procedures, but real surgeons know what to do when it all goes wrong.

Do you really want your elderly parents on a ventilator being operated by someone that only knows how to operate the machine and has no clue about nursing care?

 

It's possible that such a situation is being dealt with and more are being trained to use respirators as I write, but I have not heard if that is the case. It's certainly not going to work if they wait till it's all turned to doodoo and they suddenly decide it would be a good idea to have more ventilator operators.

 

Anyone that wants to know what it could be like in their country should read up on what is happening in Italy- it's turned into a disaster in hospitals with many staff infected and in isolation..

quote from the BBC and Health Secretary Matt Hancock.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51898207

 

How will thousands of new ventilators - machines needed to help patients breathe - be made quickly enough to cope with an increase in demand?

Mr Hancock said there were 5,000 ventilators available in the UK at the moment but that many times that number would be needed as the number of people with Covid-19, the disease caused by coronavirus, increased.

Asked if the likes of military engineers and car manufacturers would be asked to meet the demand, the health secretary said: "Yes, we're talking to all those companies."

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's not what I meant. I meant there is no point using people that have no clue about patient care to operate the ventilators if they kill the patient while they are on the ventilator. There's more to a patient than their lungs. I was just using bed sores as one example of all the things that can go wrong and which lay people do not know about.

If it was easy, nurses wouldn't train for years to look after patients.

Hmmmm, so we have a virus that causes respiratory issues. I think having lots of respirators might be a good idea, you don't. Let's agree to disagree on that one. Put it this way, having lots of respirators available certainly isn't going to cause a problem. If they're not needed then we can sell them to a country that does need them, making a bit of money and saving lives - no problem. However a lack of respirators could certainly be a problem.

 

Let's say this drags on for 12 months. Is that long enough to train someone how to use a respirator? Maybe we could train someone else on the basics of patient care simultaneously if the two things combined are so incredibly complicated that one person cannot learn both in 12 months?

 

[Rookiescot]

People need to understand. The UK government is running a policy the primary aim of which is to protect business not people.

 

[JAG]

On 3/17/2020 at 2:34 PM, Basil B said:

Well, first of all the ventilators they use now are nothing like what I recall, they are all singing complicated and over engineered.

I recall a steel box with a bellows on top,  If I were designing I would start with, KISS (keep it simple, stupid), off the shelf parts, maybe an Arduino or Raspberry Pi as the controller, linked by WiFi to a remote monitoring station, as it is likely many people will end up being treated in their own homes by family, friends and volunteers.

Donkeys years ago in the army I remember being shown a device called, I think, a "Porton Ventilator". My memory of the details is hazy, but essentially it was a hand operated ventilator, which was designed to enable medics on the battlefield to keep chemical agent casualties breathing - such casualties usually die from impaired lung functions.

 

Something along those lines would be the starting point for the ideas you are suggesting. Low tech, quick and simple to make and use. Heaven knows,  the MOD probably has several sheds full of the damned things!

 

And before anyone gets too excited, the suggestion is to supplement in an emergency existing resources, not replace them.

[Opl]

" The availability of CCB-ICU beds^[4], artificial ventilators^[5] and ECMOs devices has been described as a critical bottleneck in responding to the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. The lack of such devices dramatically raises the mortality rate of COVID-19."

Link below: 

This is a list of countries by hospital beds per 1000 or 100,000 people, as published by the local governments, international organisation (OECD, E.U.),  2020 coronavirus pandemic and hospital bed capacity

[Basil B]

21 minutes ago, JAG said:

Donkeys years ago in the army I remember being shown a device called, I think, a "Porton Ventilator". My memory of the details is hazy, but essentially it was a hand operated ventilator, which was designed to enable medics on the battlefield to keep chemical agent casualties breathing - such casualties usually die from impaired lung functions.

 

Something along those lines would be the starting point for the ideas you are suggesting. Low tech, quick and simple to make and use. Heaven knows,  the MOD probably has several sheds full of the damned things!

 

And before anyone gets too excited, the suggestion is to supplement in an emergency existing resources, not replace them.

I recall from me days in the St John Ambulance Brigade days (40 years ago) something called the Ambu Bag, still available on Ebay. 

Put that between two boards hinged one side and some parts from a self build 3D printer to make an automatic bellows...

[3NUMBAS]

its cheaper to  use the drug if they can get a plane load of it

 

In addition, X-rays confirmed improvements in lung condition in about 91% of the patients who were treated with favipiravir, compared to 62% or those without the drug.

Fujifilm Toyama Chemical, which developed the drug – also known as Avigan – in 2014, has declined to comment on the claims.

Shares in the firm surged on Wednesday following Zhang’s comments, closing the morning up 14.7% at 5,207 yen, having briefly hit their daily limit high of 5,238 yen.

Doctors in Japan are using the same drug in clinical studies on coronavirus patients with mild to moderate symptoms, hoping it will prevent the virus from multiplying in patients.