Be careful when ordering parts from Amazon

[Isaanbiker]

Just a little warning after I had to find out that the fork seals for my Yamaha Virago 1100 cc, were not the ones, mentioned in the advertisement. 

Even when the attached document stated that the seals and dust caps would be for the exact model, it turned out that the seals were too thick.

 

The problem was that my fork was already out in pieces until I saw the difference. The company is called AHL and seems to be Chinese.

 

  WE've got a Virago FB group, and one member found that they reckon to leave the washer under the main seal out to make it work. But that's not in my interest. I could luckily clean and oil the old ones, and they still seal well enough.

 

 Considering that they're also selling parts for many other bikes, please be warned. I couldn't see without de-installation what type of seals were on my bike. 

It takes a couple of hours to do that job, so please be careful when ordering from them. 

 

  They reckon to leave "6.24" on the photo out, which isn't cool at all. The washer is useful and should be there. 

 

  

 

   

[johng]

5 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

They reckon to leave "6.24" on the photo out, which isn't cool at all. The washer is useful and should be there.

Maybe the washer is built into the new seals ?

[Isaanbiker]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

Maybe the washer is built into the new seals ?

Nope, the washer is much thicker and to cope with the difference, they believe that leaving the washer out, would make it fit.

 

   In theory yes, but the washer is covering another metal ring that sits under the seal ( 5,23). Basically, a no go.

 

The new seal is on a photo, the thicker one on the right. Old one id the left one. Thanks for your suggestion! 

 

P.S. I haven't had time to do this job and the 30 days of sending them back are over. 

 

Next time, I'll check before I take the whole fork apart, I swear to god. ( Atheist, lol)

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Isaanbiker

[mosan]

I'm not so sure you should be blaming Amazon. They're not getting down into the nitty gritty of seals used on bike forks.  For that, you should have went directly with a Yamaha dealer/shop - you get my drift. 

[Isaanbiker]

5 minutes ago, mosan said:

I'm not so sure you should be blaming Amazon. They're not getting down into the nitty gritty of seals used on bike forks.  For that, you should have went directly with a Yamaha dealer/shop - you get my drift. 

You can't easily get such parts for a classic cruiser, built in 1995.

All adds, even the brochure that came with the parts suggested it's for this bike only. 

 

  My point was only a warning for others, before they waste some valuable time that could have been used much better. 

 

Thank you. 

[Kwasaki]

If your fork inner sleeves are damaged you can get changing seals forever.

In Uk they have places that re chrome sleeves dunno about any here in Thailand that's the problem. 

You  can get your seals from UK £14 posted, Thailand useless for quality parts, let alone help with it.  

[papa al]

5 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

You can't easily get such parts for a classic cruiser, built in 1995.

All adds, even the brochure that came with the parts suggested it's for this bike only. 

 

  My point was only a warning for others, before they waste some valuable time that could have been used much better. 

 

Thank you. 

Where should we order parts from then?

All suppliers <deleted>-up sometimes.

On small obscure service items like this,

papa often orders from 2 or 3 sources,

so hopefully at least one is right & not tardy.

Never hurts to have a spare.

Thanks for the warning tho.

i guess.

[impulse]

Fair warning, for sure.  You also have to realize that a Virago made for one country may not be exactly the same as the Virago made for (or in) another country.  Though the OP said they were for the exact same model (Virago) and appear to be the same reference on the exploded diagram, I'm curious whether they also called out the same P/N on the Bill of Materials? 

 

There can be some very subtle, and some very profound differences in parts made by local suppliers, and even imported parts, depending on engineering and manufacturing decisions made in the various local markets and factories.  And, of course, there may be differences from one year model to the next that may change in one country as molds wear out and stock depletes, yet remain the same in a different country for several more years.  That's one more challenge of living in a foreign country.

 

[Don Mega]

Ive purchased all my stuff from All Balls.

 

Never had an issue.

[Isaanbiker]

41 minutes ago, papa al said:

Where should we order parts from then?

All suppliers <deleted>-up sometimes.

On small obscure service items like this,

papa often orders from 2 or 3 sources,

so hopefully at least one is right & not tardy.

Never hurts to have a spare.

Thanks for the warning tho.

i guess.

Please order your parts from WEBike/Bangkok. They have a Japanese management. Once you get used to the poor English and the setup it's easy to order OEM parts.

 

Only the parts that are currently still in Japan might need longer, up to 90 days. ( There' also a Webike Japan, but it's one company.)

 

Next would be e-bay. But looking at the strange shipping costs and taxes, some parts finally cost triple the amount the seller is offering them.

[Isaanbiker]

3 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Ive purchased all my stuff from All Balls.

 

Never had an issue.

Great. But some parts are just not possible to get for some bikes. Then it becomes tricky.

 

I'm happy that I still get almost all parts for my Moped. 

[Isaanbiker]

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

Fair warning, for sure.  You also have to realize that a Virago made for one country may not be exactly the same as the Virago made for (or in) another country.  Though the OP said they were for the exact same model (Virago) and appear to be the same reference on the exploded diagram, I'm curious whether they also called out the same P/N on the Bill of Materials? 

 

There can be some very subtle, and some very profound differences in parts made by local suppliers, and even imported parts, depending on engineering and manufacturing decisions made in the various local markets and factories.  And, of course, there may be differences from one year model to the next that may change in one country as molds wear out and stock depletes, yet remain the same in a different country for several more years.  That's one more challenge of living in a foreign country.

 

I can assure you that all models from the 700 c cup to the 1100 c have the same seals. It's not country specific.

 

Mine is "special", a direct import from Japan, year 1995, but the gears are totally different to the other 1100 cc Viragoes. In a positive way.

 

 I might have 600 RPM's less than a model that was delivered to the US, the gears are different.

 

The first, second, third and fourth, have one more tooth.

 

The gear five has two more teeth and that's great.

 

  I'm more than happy with mine. Especially when you can fix your own bike without the help of any Thai mechanics.

 

i needed around eight months to correct the mistakes that were done to my bike by Thai mechanics.

 

But I don't blame them, I know the technical colleges and that says it all. 

 

     

 

  

[CGW]

7 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

They reckon to leave "6.24" on the photo out, which isn't cool at all. The washer is useful and should be there. 

Makes no sense, why does it need to be there, what purpose does it serve besides taking up space?

[Isaanbiker]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

If your fork inner sleeves are damaged you can get changing seals forever.

In Uk they have places that re chrome sleeves dunno about any here in Thailand that's the problem. 

You  can get your seals from UK £14 posted, Thailand useless for quality parts, let alone help with it.  

Mate, there's nothing wrong with any other parts. One seal was leaking and I'd I've tried the fix with the plastic part, please see photo.

 

I made my own one with the same shape and it helped cleaning the inner lip of the seal. 

 

  Unfortunately, was there some gunk in it and the fork got stock when fully extended. The good thing is that the old seals weren't in a bad shape and I could clean them up and oil them well.

 

Service for a bike can even reinforce leaking seals if they're not brittle. 

 

They seal 199 % and I've got enough time to get the right ones. Of course only when the fork will start leaking, which I don't think it does in the near future.

[Isaanbiker]

9 minutes ago, CGW said:

Makes no sense, why does it need to be there, what purpose does it serve besides taking up space?

Do you really mean the washer? Okay, starting from the top. First is the ring inside the lower part, on top the washer. The seal then sits on the washer which keeps it in place.

 

Please think about what a fork has to go through. The sad part is that the ordinary Yamaha 1100 Virago fork is way too soft. The only solution is to use progressive springs.

 

   If I'd take out the washer, the fork would be a little bit softer. i hope that you understand that. Even when it's only 2, or 3 mm thick. 

 

The Chinese junk sellers reckon to take the washer, here 6,24 out to make the thicker seal fit. But the seal doesn't have the strength of a washer. What would happen is that the ring, in the photo 5.23 would put an enormous pressure on the seal if the washer is removed.

 

I'm not an engineer, but I understand that this can't be good for any suspension.

The new and wrong seal is about one cm thicker than the old one and slides in too easy. 

 

Please see the attached diagram of the fork. It's from an 1100 cc fork

Edited March 17, 2020 by Isaanbiker

[CGW]

2 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

If I'd take out the washer, the fork would be a little bit softer. i hope that you understand that. Even when it's only 2, or 3 mm thick. 

Mate, I have been working on bikes for over 50 years, its a set of very simple forks, as I see it the new seal is an improvement on the old which does a away with a spacer, the space is now taken up with a larger seal. Your over complicating a very simple set up, whether the spring is too soft or not is immaterial, just use a heavier oil.

[Susco]

17 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I can assure you that all models from the 700 c cup to the 1100 c have the same seals.

Seems Amazon thinks different, and from what I can see from your pictures and compare them to the listings, you got seals for the Virago 250cc

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=virago+front+fork+seal&ref=nb_sb_noss

[CGW]

4 minutes ago, Susco said:

Seems Amazon thinks different, and from what I can see from your pictures and compare them to the listings, you got seals for the Virago 250cc

 

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=virago+front+fork+seal&ref=nb_sb_noss

are 33mm & 38mm compatible?

[Isaanbiker]

26 minutes ago, CGW said:

Mate, I have been working on bikes for over 50 years, its a set of very simple forks, as I see it the new seal is an improvement on the old which does a away with a spacer, the space is now taken up with a larger seal. Your over complicating a very simple set up, whether the spring is too soft or not is immaterial, just use a heavier oil.

Excuse me, but you're wrong on that. It's not an upgrade, it's just the try of Chinese company to sell certain parts, because they can't get the real ones.

 

  Even if you'd have worked on bikes for 60 years, each bike's different. Thicker oil would not be the solution, please believe me.

 

It was a mistake done by the engineers, which includes the exhaust and an extra tank behind the left cover. If you're not into Yamaha Viragos, there's no way to understand the particular problems.

 

WE've got a great functioning online group with people who know these bikes up and down and it's not my opinion, it's from people who fix only Viragos for 30 to 50 years.

 

Take a 1100 cc Mikuni carbs as an example. Even the best mechanics I've met had no idea how to fix these carbs that all problems are gone.

 

That includes a special trick to check on the diaphragms, before you even take them apart. You can use the air from your lungs and blow into the "breathers" of the diaphragms. 

 

    Just hearing the slides when opening and closing isn't enough. It's almost the same sound with holes in the diaphragms that will not open, even after changing all the other parts. 

 

 The main reason not to take these washers out is that the seals are in no way as hard as the washer. And that will cause the seals to get pressed down and sideways with every movement.

 

And then they start leaking. That's what I do not want. The original washers have to stay in and a bit shorter seals will do the trick.

 

Finally, please believe me on this, the only way to make these forks harder are progressive springs. Thanks for your input. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Isaanbiker

[CGW]

5 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Finally, please believe me on this, the only way to make these forks haster are progressive springs. Thanks for your input. 

Well, you obviously know far more than I - good luck.

[Isaanbiker]

14 minutes ago, CGW said:

are 33mm & 38mm compatible?

Nope, they are not compatible and I do not have these seals. 

 

    I've bought Dual seal set 38 mm x 50 mm x 11 with the number X0019NISEN.

 

   All Viragos from the 700 cc up to the 750, 920 and 1100 cc have the same seals.

 

   This company is just trying to sell their old shi_e they got pretty cheap as something that's not the real thing.

 

   How can you ask if a 33 mm is compatible when you've got so much experience with bikes. Of course, not!

 

   And I didn't guy seals for a 250 cc,. where did you get that from? 

 

 Please stay calm, we do not want to argue about something here.

    My post was only a warning for others that they don't spend a whole day without having the chance to be successful.

 

And only because these people sell the wrong parts, but declare them as the right ones. 

 

   

 

  

[Isaanbiker]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

Well, you obviously know far more than I - good luck.

I'm fine. Thanks for the wishes. My fork works well with the old ones, cleaned and oiled. 

[CGW]

9 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

How can you ask if a 33 mm is compatible when you've got so much experience with bikes. Of course, not!

Sarcasm goes over your head, doesn't it! don't try to be clever!

Did you ever stop for one minute and actually think?

[canthai55]

You REALLY need to find a parts source.

Working on old bikes takes a different mindset. Realize that you can not go on the Web and find these things.

Get ahold of a dedicated group of people who fix these bikes. Source your parts from them.

Just like old Ducks, Trumpets, HD's.

It is the only way to get what you want.

Forget websites where no one was alive when these bikes were produced.

And get rid of the old - 25 plus years old - parts and upgrade to newer parts. Take advantage of what has come since that bike was produced.

Like those carbs - trash can a-callin' - like HD's no one runs Linkert carbs but the die-hard, 100% factory restored Yahoos

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02YAsQbAtwCEoBWyA06HTiO8CHzkw%3A1584498510139&ei=TodxXuORCK7Vz7sP6vqfiAc&q=homemade+fork+seal+cleaning+tool&oq=seal+mate&gs_l=psy-ab.1.3.0i71l8.0.0..535902...0.2..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.3tLy8cygo6k#kpvalbx=_Z4lxXt-sBuKM4-EPufWtkAk24

[Isaanbiker]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02YAsQbAtwCEoBWyA06HTiO8CHzkw%3A1584498510139&ei=TodxXuORCK7Vz7sP6vqfiAc&q=homemade+fork+seal+cleaning+tool&oq=seal+mate&gs_l=psy-ab.1.3.0i71l8.0.0..535902...0.2..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.3tLy8cygo6k#kpvalbx=_Z4lxXt-sBuKM4-EPufWtkAk24

I had one leaking seal and did this to the left side. It stopped leaking.

 

Now I took it apart because there's some gunk that let the fork stuck when fully out. Considering that the oil needed replacement and I had all in parts, I've cleaned the old seals thoroughly and oiled them.

 

It's working like a charm. No leaks and new oil inside.  Progressive springs are next. Thank you. 

[Pravda]

Amazon - you can open a dispute as item not as described and you will get your money back. You will most likely get a refund without return and if a seller decides you need to send it back they are 100% responsible for shipping costs.

 

Been selling on Amazon for 20 years.

[Isaanbiker]

17 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Amazon - you can open a dispute as item not as described and you will get your money back. You will most likely get a refund without return and if a seller decides you need to send it back they are 100% responsible for shipping costs.

 

Been selling on Amazon for 20 years.

Thank you very much. I've just sent a message to the seller and hope that they respond. 

 

I really appreciate your advice. Thanks. 

[Pravda]

42 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Thank you very much. I've just sent a message to the seller and hope that they respond. 

 

I really appreciate your advice. Thanks. 

 

No need to hope. They have 48 hours to respond. If they don'y you file a-z claim and you will get a refund.

[Isaanbiker]

4 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

No need to hope. They have 48 hours to respond. If they don'y you file a-z claim and you will get a refund.

The problem is that the 30 days refund time is over. I haven't had the time to do the job before because I had to work.

 

Thank you very much for your advice.