UK doctors' and nurses' lives at risk from lack of protection kit: unions

[rooster59]

UK doctors' and nurses' lives at risk from lack of protection kit: unions

By Michael Holden

 

FILE PHOTO: A member of medical staff is seen at an NHS coronavirus disease (COVID-19) testing facility, Wolverhampton, Britain, April 7, 2020. REUTERS/Carl Recine/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Doctors and nurses treating patients with COVID-19 in Britain are putting their lives at risk because of a lack of protective kit for frontline staff, their unions have warned.

 

The British government has faced repeated criticism from National Health Service (NHS) staff that doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers were facing shortages of masks, gloves and other personal protective equipment (PPE).

 

Health minister Matt Hancock said on Friday there was enough kit but it needed a "Herculean" logistical effort, backed up by the military, to ensure PPE reaches those on the frontline, with 761 million items delivered so far.

 

"There's clearly more to do to make sure every single person who needs it gets the PPE that they need," Hancock told BBC radio.

 

The British Medical Association (BMA), which represents doctors, said current supplies in London and Yorkshire, in northern England, were insufficient, and doctors faced a "heart-breaking" decision over whether to treat patients without proper protection and so put themselves at risk.

 

"It is absurd that the people trained to treat this disease are the ones who are not being appropriately protected – and without them, we face real disaster," said Dr Chaand Nagpaul, the BMA council chair.

 

Among the 9,000 people with COVID-19 who have died in British hospitals are 19 NHS workers, including 11 doctors.

Hancock said the government was not aware of any link between the deaths and a shortage of equipment.

 

Nagpaul said: "It’s unclear whether the lack of PPE is directly linked to the recorded deaths of doctors so far, but we know that no healthcare workers have been infected in a hospital in Italy precisely because their PPE supplies are sufficient and of high-quality."

 

A BMA survey earlier this month found more than half of doctors had reported a shortage or no supply of face masks.

 

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) said the figures on PPE deliveries would only be impressive when nurses no longer reported shortages.

 

"The calls are still coming through - people are petrified. They have seen colleagues die already," said Susan Masters of the Director of Nursing, Policy and Practice.

 

Hancock said PPE needed to be treated as a "precious resource" which should not be used unnecessarily and called on British manufacturers to offer their production lines to help make more.

 

However, the suggestion that some PPE was being wasted had provoked anger, the RCN said.

 

Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition Labour Party, said on Twitter: "It is quite frankly insulting to imply frontline staff are wasting PPE."

 

(Reporting by Michael Holden; Editing by David Holmes)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-04-12

Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

 

 

[Rookiescot]

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

[Gilltom]

a

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

Ciuldn't agree more.where were health and safety then or the bloody unions to back them up .been up <deleted> creek if the docs and nurses ad downed tools makes my blood boil

[Surelynot]

If you listened to Priti Patel I think you will find there is no risk, these trained healthcare professionals just 'feel' their lives are at risk. STOP VOTING TORY

[Bramley]

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

And the airports are open, with no checks. Not even bozo could be that stupid.

[fruitman]

33 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

In W-Europe ALL workers have to wear PPE or they can expect huge fines, including their boss....the work will be stopped untill they work according the safety laws. 

 

But now that the governments didn't order PPE's in time we just look the other way.....disgusting behaviour.

[JimHuaHin]

"The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28."

 

But Boris lives!!!

 

Where is the justice in that?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

 

The government should. and must, hold an investigation to establish learning points.

 

The current government doesn't have a magic wand to waive and counter 50+ years of mismanagement in NHS; and poor decisions by successive Labor and Conservative governments which haven't delivered a robust efficient NHS, not even close.

 

But the NHS must also be held to account. Those managing it, the CEO's, Operations Directors etc etc and those involved in managing the procurement and supply chains. These people aren't required to sit still doing nothing waiting for the government to tell them what to do! Many receive a lot more salary than doctors and nurses. They are responsible for their organizations crisis management, risk management and for ensuring supply.

 

It's a cop out to blame the government. But successive governments are all to blame for not sorting out the appallingly inefficient and ineffective managements within the NHS.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The government should. and must, hold an investigation to establish learning points.

 

The current government doesn't have a magic wand to waive and counter 50+ years of mismanagement in NHS; and poor decisions by successive Labor and Conservative governments which haven't delivered a robust efficient NHS, not even close.

 

But the NHS must also be held to account. Those managing it, the CEO's, Operations Directors etc etc and those involved in managing the procurement and supply chains. These people aren't required to sit still doing nothing waiting for the government to tell them what to do! Many receive a lot more salary than doctors and nurses. They are responsible for their organizations crisis management, risk management and for ensuring supply.

 

It's a cop out to blame the government. But successive governments are all to blame for not sorting out the appallingly inefficient and ineffective managements within the NHS.

Talking about a cop out.

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The government should. and must, hold an investigation to establish learning points.

 

The current government doesn't have a magic wand to waive and counter 50+ years of mismanagement in NHS; and poor decisions by successive Labor and Conservative governments which haven't delivered a robust efficient NHS, not even close.

 

But the NHS must also be held to account. Those managing it, the CEO's, Operations Directors etc etc and those involved in managing the procurement and supply chains. These people aren't required to sit still doing nothing waiting for the government to tell them what to do! Many receive a lot more salary than doctors and nurses. They are responsible for their organizations crisis management, risk management and for ensuring supply.

 

It's a cop out to blame the government. But successive governments are all to blame for not sorting out the appallingly inefficient and ineffective managements within the NHS.

Which poor NHS decision left medical staff with insufficient protective equipment?

 

Or is it another case of the accountability being pushed down as a government minister says health professionals ‘feel’ they have insufficient PPE?!

 

 

[transam]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which poor NHS decision left medical staff with insufficient protective equipment?

 

Or is it another case of the accountability being pushed down as a government minister says health professionals ‘feel’ they have insufficient PPE?!

 

 

Equipment for a situation that no one thought would happen, when the next huge unforseen situation comes along, what will they be short of then........ Tell me....?

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The government should. and must, hold an investigation to establish learning points.

 

The current government doesn't have a magic wand to waive and counter 50+ years of mismanagement in NHS; and poor decisions by successive Labor and Conservative governments which haven't delivered a robust efficient NHS, not even close.

 

But the NHS must also be held to account. Those managing it, the CEO's, Operations Directors etc etc and those involved in managing the procurement and supply chains. These people aren't required to sit still doing nothing waiting for the government to tell them what to do! Many receive a lot more salary than doctors and nurses. They are responsible for their organizations crisis management, risk management and for ensuring supply.

 

It's a cop out to blame the government. But successive governments are all to blame for not sorting out the appallingly inefficient and ineffective managements within the NHS.

NHS procurement in Scotland, Wales and NI is a reserved matter, meaning retained by Westminster. I don't know about English NHS but I see no reason why Westminster would retain procurement for devolved NHS whilst giving ENHS free reign.

 

I may be wrong, and happy to be corrected, but I suspect all 4 countries' NHS procurement is a centralised Westminster responsibility.

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, Gilltom said:

a

Ciuldn't agree more.where were health and safety then or the bloody unions to back them up .been up <deleted> creek if the docs and nurses ad downed tools makes my blood boil

Hancock says it's a logistical problem, the kit is there though but we obviously don't have helicopters or lorries to transport them even though the military is involved, sounds like a porky or a great British cock up. Still, if we clap our hands in support of the NHS staff maybe that would help. The government is guilty of manslaughter. Health and safety is for schoolboys playing conkers, dangerous that is.

[Toosetinmyways]

From 2014 the year my nephew was made redundant from the NHS after 20 years. In 5 years 4500 mental health nurses and 8000 mental health beds were lost.

 

"The number of elite NHS "super-managers" being paid up to £240,000 a year to implement the government's controversial health service reforms has soared to more than four times the level originally expected by ministers, the Observer can reveal.

The latest official figures – which show a total of 428 "very senior managers" (VSMs) working in the newly constituted NHS bureaucracy – undermine David Cameron's repeated claims to be slashing management posts and costs at every level in the service.

The figures will also anger more than a million NHS employees at the other end of the pay scale, including nurses and non-medical staff, such as cleaners, who have been warned that their planned 1% increase for 2014 could be cancelled because there is not enough money to fund it".

Edited April 12, 2020 by Toosetinmyways

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28.

How many of these people contracted the virus because of substandard PPE? Or indeed lack of PPE?

We had 2 months advanced notice that the virus was coming and those months should have been used to prepare.

Instead we had a PM and government playing down the potential severity and adopting a policy of herd immunity. Basically the government told people to wash their hands and sing happy birthday. They did precious little else.

Now we are desperately trying to source PPE, ventilators and medicines at a time when all the other countries have and are keeping their stockpiles. 

 

If I had done my job this incompetently and people died because of my actions/inactions then I would have been prosecuted and jailed.

If my company had not provided the required PPE for the jobs we had to do then we would have been shut down by the HSE.

 

This government must be held to account for what has happened. 

Correct, bring these politicians in court because of ten thousand deaths by neglect

Edited April 12, 2020 by puipuitom

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, fruitman said:

In W-Europe ALL workers have to wear PPE or they can expect huge fines, including their boss....the work will be stopped untill they work according the safety laws. 

 

But now that the governments didn't order PPE's in time we just look the other way.....disgusting behaviour.

Only one small problem: where the hack to get these from ? We outsourced all these to China, because lower prioce, cost less, lower price after the $/€/£-sign. When the Chinese got into trouble, with Chinese New Year not 2 weeks, but 2 months, and then entire world under corona, <deleted> was on all places hitting the fans.

Our BLUNDER is, we did not use the time to start up own productions, as all thought / hoped: the storm would stay only in China. The second blunder: did not reduce our contacts to others, not in the last place because of the example given by Boris and the even bigger idiot in Washington. The football match Bergamo-Valencia was more important, the quarantaine in Northern Italy was seen as a joke, and the warnings in the Austrian sky-pistes were treated the same as shark-treat in JAWS

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

"The official number of health workers who have died is 19.

My understanding is that the figure is actually 28."

 

But Boris lives !!!  Where is the justice in that?

Just like in every war: the soldiers die or get wounded, the generals get their medals.

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The government should. and must, hold an investigation to establish learning points.

 

The current government doesn't have a magic wand to waive and counter 50+ years of mismanagement in NHS; and poor decisions by successive Labor and Conservative governments which haven't delivered a robust efficient NHS, not even close.

 

But the NHS must also be held to account. Those managing it, the CEO's, Operations Directors etc etc and those involved in managing the procurement and supply chains. These people aren't required to sit still doing nothing waiting for the government to tell them what to do! Many receive a lot more salary than doctors and nurses. They are responsible for their organizations crisis management, risk management and for ensuring supply.

 

It's a cop out to blame the government. But successive governments are all to blame for not sorting out the appallingly inefficient and ineffective managements within the NHS.

And YOU all ... voted for them...

Edited April 12, 2020 by puipuitom

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed.

[simple1]

Has HMG committed to provide financial support for the families of medical workers who have died as a result of Covid-19 infection at work?

[fruitman]

49 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

7 hours ago, fruitman said:

In W-Europe ALL workers have to wear PPE or they can expect huge fines, including their boss....the work will be stopped untill they work according the safety laws. 

 

But now that the governments didn't order PPE's in time we just look the other way.....disgusting behaviour.

Only one small problem: where the hack to get these from ? We outsourced all these to China, because lower prioce, cost less, lower price after the $/€/£-sign. When the Chinese got into trouble, with Chinese New Year not 2 weeks, but 2 months, and then entire world under corona, <deleted> was on all places hitting the fans.

Our BLUNDER is, we did not use the time to start up own productions, as all thought / hoped: the storm would stay only in China. The second blunder: did not reduce our contacts to others, not in the last place because of the example given by Boris and the even bigger idiot in Washington. The football match Bergamo-Valencia was more important, the quarantaine in Northern Italy was seen as a joke, and the warnings in the Austrian sky-pistes were treated the same as shark-treat in JAWS

Outsourcing PPE's to China was another huge mistake...how dumb were they to not think about a pandemic to happen !! Also the chinese were allowed to buy all the Western stocks of PPE's in Januari, the WHO said the virus was just a flue and probably wouldn't come to the West to cause havoc there...well sure we know better now.

 

Then the whole idiocy about mouthmasks not helping to stop spreading this virus, now they suddenly changed their mind because of the WHO...what a shame... 

 

I also guess that Italy and Austria wouldn't ring the alarmbells too fast cause they live on tourism in the high season.

 

It was all fault on fault, starting in China where they made the doctors who rang the alarm bell first to disappear...

 

We have a lot to do and change when this is all over...

[sawadee1947]

Very strange, isn't it?

Now you got your desired clown who wants to put millions over millions every week into NHS system....when cancelled EU-membership.

What did he do with all the millions???

 

[sungod]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

NHS procurement in Scotland, Wales and NI is a reserved matter, meaning retained by Westminster. I don't know about English NHS but I see no reason why Westminster would retain procurement for devolved NHS whilst giving ENHS free reign.

 

I may be wrong, and happy to be corrected, but I suspect all 4 countries' NHS procurement is a centralised Westminster responsibility.

I dont know, Sturgeon is getting loads of stick over PPE too, seems to be very much a Scottish government matter. They too say there are ample stocks. I think this is proved as she is not blaming Westminster for a change. Even the trade unions are critical of her.

[windas]

Hi

My daughter works in a covid-19 hospital ward in East Anglia (UK) and today they ran out of the basic PPE.

The situation in the hospitals is a shambles and I'm Sure many many more doctors, nurses and carers are going to die due to lack of PPE.

UK large economy run by people with small brains and fork tongues.

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8213715/Medics-pharmacy-workers-urged-disinfect-SHOES-studies-COVID-19-

 

its on their shoes