Hi all,

 

Does anyone have any idea how to work out the real value per Rai for farm / plantation land in Thailand?

 

My girlfriend has a valuation by the local land office in surat Thani but i understand that this is normally less than the true market value, although its not clear by how much.

 

Does anyone know if public records are available showing prices that land has sold for, similar to our land registry?

 

I have searched on the various proerty sale websites but there is such variation on prices with little reasoning why.

 

As my girlfriend tells me they don't really use estate agents, they just guess the land value and ask what they like? Makes no sense to me.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Gary

The bottom line is what the buyer is willing to pay.

 

I have been quoted 10 times the price when they see I am a farang, however, if FIL asks the question 10 times less.

 

There is no exact science for farm land.

 

You can ask what ever you want.

 

You have to remember there is not a lot of money in farming

The simplest answer would be to determine the cash flow farming could produce, and work it back. That is purchasing it as farm land. If it is a speculative purchase, then you need to know what the basis of the speculation is.

1 hour ago, GARYGANG said:

Does anyone have any idea how to work out the real value per Rai for farm / plantation land in Thailand?

Yes.  First you must forget about real value concepts and prices per square centimetre then you will unburden your spirit and your sex life will subsequently improve.  This applies to all logical forms of thinking when it comes to LOS, i.e. don't use logic but rely on luck and randomness as it's easier to keep up with the random motion of particles than it is Thai logic.  

 

What is a 1M baht sale of land today isn't necessarily a 1M baht sale of land tomorrow.  

 

 

I bought three pieces of land near Buriram and it's always the same thing. Whatever the local perceived or real/actual practical value is. Meaning it is all up to the feels of the local population. A lot of what dictates the price is what other pieces have sold for in the area... and that is usually word of mouth on price. As always, location, location, location. If your buying for agriculture, and no road or power is nearby, will be much cheaper. Definitely get someone else, not a farang to negotiate the deal. I am considering some non-chanote land right now from my wife's uncle. It sells for 20-50% less the price of chanote. Since it's going to be in my wife's name anyways and the family will simply farm it for sugarcane, I don't care that it is not full title and my name is not on it. It's a family investment that will benefit all of us. I was opposed to the non chanote titles, but not anymore. It's a different mindset and set of legal standards that I was not used to. But as the farang saying goes, never buy anything your not willing and able to just walk away from. The non-chanote titles seem to remain stable in the persons name and is simply part of the land title heirarchy that I can live with, especially if it isn't in my name anyway. 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I should have been clearer before but i’m not looking to invest in this.

 

My girlfriend has lived in the UK for 12 years and is going through divorce / financial settlement.

 

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

 

I just trying to find any info i can to dispute their report.

 

 

I am aware that assessed values may be lower than market, but not almost a quarter of the market value.

 

 

offer him the sale of yr GF's half for 95,000. see how that goes. then offer him 15,000 for his half. I don't think he's going to ever be your bestie, so go for it. (£)

11 minutes ago, GARYGANG said:

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

If the Chanote is in the wifes name free and clear just do like the locals do and flat-out ignore the fool. Really isn't alot he can do from a practical sense, especially out in the sticks. 

 

End of the day if it was me I would feel pretty confident he wouldn't be able to do much. 

56 minutes ago, GARYGANG said:

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I should have been clearer before but i’m not looking to invest in this.

 

My girlfriend has lived in the UK for 12 years and is going through divorce / financial settlement.

 

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

 

I just trying to find any info i can to dispute their report.

 

 

I am aware that assessed values may be lower than market, but not almost a quarter of the market value.

 

 

You will need to do the same. Go find as many comparable land sales in the area. If the land is not on a road and the land valuation is basing value on land that was on a road, that is a huge difference in price valuation. 

1 hour ago, GARYGANG said:

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

Have you seen the report? 

 

If the land is in your gfs name & has a chanote, tell him to sling his hook. 

 

Sounds to me as if the ex- husband has got some sort of farang fever....

I would contest the fact that the hubby deserves half of what the woman father has bequeathed to her and how the whole divorce and sharing of common properties was handled in the first place, consulting a local lawyer would be a wise step to learn how the local laws protect her rights...and if the hubby things it's worth 190 k let hem than find a buyer for that money and until that nothing get sold, i thing the grubby hubby can be dispensed off with a fistful of quids and send him on his way...

4 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

The bottom line is what the buyer is willing to pay.

 

I have been quoted 10 times the price when they see I am a farang, however, if FIL asks the question 10 times less.

 

There is no exact science for farm land.

 

You can ask what ever you want.

 

You have to remember there is not a lot of money in farming

Yes.. it is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  It is a complicated business.. often the sellers are just testing the market to see what they may get with no intention of selling.  Many times too there are many family members with an interest in the land.. getting them all to agree to a sale price can be very difficult.. 

Quote

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

If the land was gifted specifically to her then it is her personal property (Sin suan tua) and he has no claim on it.

 

Section 1471 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code applies.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

1. property belonging to either spouse before marriage;
2. property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;
3. property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift;

 

2 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I should have been clearer before but i’m not looking to invest in this.

 

My girlfriend has lived in the UK for 12 years and is going through divorce / financial settlement.

 

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

 

I just trying to find any info i can to dispute their report.

 

 

I am aware that assessed values may be lower than market, but not almost a quarter of the market value.

 

 

Two can play at that game. Get a registered agent to give a far far lower appraisal. There used to be a few in the Khanom area which covers Surat...Samui covers that area also. Explain the situation to them and I'm sure they wouldn't charge anything like £2k for an appraisal in your favour. Check out DD property and other website listings in that area and compile a portfolio of similar sized land listings....of course with the lowest prices. The Chanote will have the co ordinates so you narrow the search easier enough. 

Or just follow ThaiDown advice and get a lawyer to check the validity of Sin Suan Tin

5 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

Or just follow ThaiDown advice and get a lawyer to check the validity of Sin Suan Tin

Agreed and I am sure his girlfriend knows this too. I smell a rat!!!

International valuation of Thai Farm land?

 

I say impossible.

1 hour ago, ThaidDown said:

If the land was gifted specifically to her then it is her personal property (Sin suan tua) and he has no claim on it.

 

Section 1471 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code applies.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

1. property belonging to either spouse before marriage;
2. property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;
3. property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift;

 

 

OP this is all you need to know. The ex-hubby has no legal right to claim half the property that she was bequeathed by her father. Period.

 

As for valuation, in case you need to know for any other purposes, the Land Office assesses value for taxation purposes. The actual market value of the land is always higher. Nobody sells land at LO prices.

 

Farmland prices vary enormously depending on the 'title', the location, ease of access for vehicles, access to water and quality of soil, to name a few of the most important considerations. Basing an estimate on a property that is 15 miles away is complete nonsense. Utter rubbish. The ex-hubby knows this perfectly well and is trying to inflate the price (basically cheating).

 

If you want to estimate market value you'll need to find someone who knows the area very well. Start by getting actual previous selling prices of land close by (say within 3kms). No, there's nothing published. Then compare the features of that sold land with yours.

 

It is perfectly possible that one piece of land of same size that is just 5kms away is worth 10x more (or less) than yours.

 

Welcome to the minefield of Thai land valuation!

 

 

4 hours ago, ThaidDown said:

If the land was gifted specifically to her then it is her personal property (Sin suan tua) and he has no claim on it.

 

Section 1471 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code applies.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

1. property belonging to either spouse before marriage;
2. property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;
3. property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift;

 

OP doesn't say whether her Ex is Thai or Falang or whether the marriage is legal.

If his Falang he only has claim on items on the land that he paid for, not the land.

If the husband is Thai it is as you say he has no claim if given to her by her father.

 

3 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

International valuation of Thai Farm land?

I say impossible.

Yeah my experience.

My wife sold land that I just bought for our daughter, didn't ask questions, some years after our daughter wanted money not land.

It was land without Chanote so a extortionate asking price could not be asked. ????

No-one could actually price it we could only go by asking price.

 

So I said to mrs how did Thai people work out the price I pay for it in the first place then, my wife said Oh!! that price came from their heart. ????

 

8 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I should have been clearer before but i’m not looking to invest in this.

 

My girlfriend has lived in the UK for 12 years and is going through divorce / financial settlement.

 

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

 

I just trying to find any info i can to dispute their report.

 

 

I am aware that assessed values may be lower than market, but not almost a quarter of the market value.

 

 

The section 1471 of the Thai CC (property of husband and wife) should solve the problem in her favor if she can proof it was a gift only for her

Thanks for all the further comments.

 

We have previously raised the fact that the land was gifted to her in her sole name so it is ‘Non-Matrimonial Property’.

 

She has never spent a penny on it or received anything from it as her mum is still alive.

 

I’m aware that in Thai Civil Code its classed as ‘Sin Suan Tua’ but it appears that means nothing in an English divorce court.

 

The Judge has just approved a request from the ex-husband to pay £3k for another international company to do a valuation survey and girlfriend has to pay half.

 

Absolute Joke !

 

If its anything like the last report they won’t even visit the land, they will sit in an office in Bangkok and find a few properties in the general vicinity and base a valuation on pie in the sky asking prices.

 

 

 

My experience in a Thai village, albeit seven years ago, is about 100k a rai. Prices haven't shot up since then by any means. 

 

I like the above suggestion of asking the ex-husband if he wants to buy out your GF at 50% of his evaluation.

 

I doubt if they're queuing halfway round the block at the local estate agent to snap up land at his prices.

 

Got a mate who's ex missus contested the house/property sale recently. Four million baht + to build. My mate wanted 1 million to walk away. His missus was being awkward so it went to court. He was awarded his million on completion of a sale. It went to auction and nobody had the money to buy it at a decent price. It sold for 1.5m. She walked away with only 500k less costs. Might be worth her while going down that road and see what half is worth at auction.

 

I have searched on the various proerty sale websites but there is such variation on prices with little reasoning why.
Location Location Location 

My wife has 4 Rai of rice farm land In Saraburi thats supposably worth 600,000 THB so 150,000 per Rai.  She rents it out at 4,000 THB per month. 

12 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I should have been clearer before but i’m not looking to invest in this.

 

My girlfriend has lived in the UK for 12 years and is going through divorce / financial settlement.

 

The land was gifted to her by her father just before he died in 2011.

 

Her ex husband Is after half the value of the land.

 

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

 

I just trying to find any info i can to dispute their report.

 

 

I am aware that assessed values may be lower than market, but not almost a quarter of the market value.

 

 

one rule of thumb :  land on main road is worth much more than not on main road.  The further away from main road,  and the smaller the road it is on,  the less the value.

 

also:  simple general answer to how much something is worth     Supply and Demand

 

and almost everywhere that i have been in Thailand it is easy to establish what land is selling for.   Looking at similar pieces of land and finding out the  price per talang wa  or the price per rai  (  one rai    has   400  talang wa  )   

 

asking others to give you an answer will get different responses.  Only sure way to know it  go yourself and  find out .   Speaking thai helps a lot,

Otherwise you need someone you trust to ask for you

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

i think you have the answer right there,  don't you ?

Land is usually valued slightly higher than the land office assessed value..... 

how much more      depends  ????

2 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Absolute Joke !

 

If its anything like the last report they won’t even visit the land, they will sit in an office in Bangkok and find a few properties in the general vicinity and base a valuation on pie in the sky asking prices

As a valuer in a past life your comment about an absolute joke is correct. The only way they will find any sales evidence is to bribe someone at the Land Office as it is not public information as in western countries.

For a valuer to substantiate a sale price here he will need a copy of the sale and transfer documents. (good luck with that). If he does not have these it is pure here-say and an English judge should understand that.

16 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Does anyone have any idea how to work out the real value per Rai for farm / plantation land in Thailand?

 

My girlfriend has a valuation by the local land office in surat Thani but i understand that this is normally less than the true market value, although its not clear by how much.

The land office valuation is used to calculate tax, if an actual sales price is not higher, it's the highest amount that is used.

 

In some areas the land office price is used as official sales price, if it's lower than the agreed price, to save on tax and transfer fees; however, the remaining amount still change hands, but outside the land office.

 

The real value of land in Thailand is the value you can sell it for.

 

You might see huge difference in asking price for almost similar land plots, but that don't state any value, it's more a seller's dream. However, you can look what other's are asking for, and ask what other have bought similar land for recently in the area.

 

14 hours ago, GARYGANG said:

Land office assessed value is £50,000 for 19 rai.

 

He paid and international property company over £2k for a valuation.

 

Their report says its worth £190,000 based on the sale of Just one other property some 15 miles away, that is on a main highway.

I live in Surat Thani province, and in my area the land office price are often way under the genuine trading price, but often used for taxes and fee, whenever possible; i.e. if no mortgage or bank involved.

 

£50k for 19 rai sound like 100,000 baht a rai, which in some areas might be a going price for farm; however plantation will have higher price.

 

Up to some 400,000 baht a rai could well be going price for some plantagen land in that area, but if you are not going to sell the land, the value can be based on negotiation and mutual agreement between land office valuation and third party valuation; eventually have your own valuation report made and see what that says.

12 hours ago, ezzra said:

I would contest the fact that the hubby deserves half of what the woman father has bequeathed to her and how the whole divorce and sharing of common properties was handled in the first place, consulting a local lawyer would be a wise step to learn how the local laws protect her rights...and if the hubby things it's worth 190 k let hem than find a buyer for that money and until that nothing get sold, i thing the grubby hubby can be dispensed off with a fistful of quids and send him on his way...

Would depend on which country they're getting divorced (and maybe where they got married).

If in the UK, he gets half, if in Thailand he gets nothing.

 

If you're having sex with a married woman in Thailand, the husband can sue you for using his property.

Best to keep away from married women IMHO.