Teaching in Thailand as an older Teacher

stament · May 6, 2020

Just wondering as someone approaching 50 what the landscape is for teaching in Thailand. I've read quite a few older threads which suggest that it's difficult getting a job if you're over 50.

Also that the mandatory retirement age in government schools is 60.

Mulling over whether there is any benefit at my age of getting a PGCE and QTS in England if my shelf life in Thailand is short. Should I be aiming at primary or secondary school?

One obvious advantage is that I would have the option of teaching in England until the retirement age there of 68.

All thoughts welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Denim · May 6, 2020

With respects , teaching is not a profession thats suits everybody and is not as easy to succeed in as people tend to think. Before committing yourself to any long term training etc , it would assist you a lot in deciding what to do if you could find your way to getting a few teaching hours under your belt first.

From a legal point of view this might appear difficult in Thailand where there are a lot of laws in place to discourage non qualified teachers from dabbling in teaching. Nonetheless, even a week in a classroom would give you a good idea of the kind of environment you would be facing everyday.

I know personally two people who did a lot of training in order to be correctly qualified before they embarked on any teaching. As soon as they started work for real they both realized they had made a mistake and gave it up within three months. In short , they hated it.

Another thing to consider is motive for teaching. If it has always been a dream , something you've always wanted to do , all well and good. The worst reason to begin teaching is for just financial reasons.

There are other money making opportunities in Thailand so don't think teaching is the only option.

stament · May 6, 2020

I've already done some teaching in Thailand and also had some work experience in a primary school in England which I enjoyed very much compared to office work.

Teaching is something I actually enjoy. I don't see it as a way of earning a lot of money as I could continue as an accountant but I'm not interested in that. Having said that I want to work for good schools with decent pay.

Ventenio · May 6, 2020

Nationality, looks, and accent is MUCH more important than age. Everybody asks your age, but you can always lie with a smile and say 45 (after you got the job and the managers know your real age). BUT if you look old, then it has directors wondering if you can really give the energy needed for 4 hours a day, five days a week.

If you don't get a proper license, you will make up to 40,000 and work with many non-native teachers. no-aircon for some classes, large groups of kids, and nobody will really care if anyone learns English at the end of the year. BUT it's super important the kids like you. I'm generalizing, of course, but if you are quiet, kids don't like you, you lose your temper, bad accent, etc.....you will hate it I'm sure.

Only you know if you can handle the energy. Maybe you have to meet kids at 7:30 a.m., gate duty or something.....then do something else to help the school, then teach four straight hours, then ....... it's exhausting for fit people. Yes, you can be lazy and do much less....but then it's a lose-lose.

i remember telling teachers, "OK, this presentation at 7:30 a.m. for two minutes will be the most important thing you do all month." It's true. It has nothing to do with teaching, and you have to get used to that.

If you want to be a REAL teacher, you have to get a license and go to an international school. Imagine working at a school where all the english teachers can't speak english? i'm guessing this ISN"T the case at an international school.

I think Thailand pays the least compared to all the other SE Asian countries. I've seen HUNDREDS of teachers come and go, sometimes ten a month....usually only one. Turnover was high years ago.

anyhow, my point is you have to look the role at an older age. if your age holds you back, then don't be surprised if a 20-year old kid takes your job AND gets paid more. This is the game, and it's my feeling that older people don't like playing it. Especially when they are forced on a few overnight buses to get paperwork done for their visa.

if you consider it something to do, laugh with kids, inspire the children, be a good role model.....perfect. the kids are great.

money. ah, no. work/life balance? depends. fun with other teachers? very limited. career rewarding? I would laugh at anyone who actually thinks teaching English in Thailand is a real job (International schools excluded, i guess). It's a joke job. Clown work. But that doesn't mean it's bad....not at all, it can be very fun and you will help a few kids.

Money.... go to S. Korea. Teaching....I guess try an International school OR.....Online teaching and also teach at a learning center so you can have human interaction. that's REALLY key.....seeing a kid smile has to be the most important job.

oh.....yea, this rambling has many errors....written while drinking coffee....and maybe only someone in college could have a clue what i'm talking about. i see teachers all obsessed over grammar, which is great at the right time, and then the kids hate them and don't want to learn. now you have a class full of kids who don't want to learn. i've seen this before when a teacher lost their cool....he lost the class. this dynamic means, IMO, ESL teachers are much different.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ventenio

BobbyL · May 6, 2020

I would definitely recommend getting the PGCE and QTS if you can. However, not doing the NQT year or RQT year will restrict you from certain international schools as many do not hire fresh NQTs.

I am also not sure whether it is that easy to get on the PGCE courses at certain ages. I did mine when I was 25. Perhaps you might consider doing the PGCEi, but that would limit you to the lower level international schools where it will probably only be salary and no benefits.

Teaching in international schools is literally incomparable to TEFL teaching. Work environment, students, fellow staff, salary, benefits, the day to day teaching etc are all generally great. People who have only worked in the Thai education system really cannot comprehend the differences of working in a western managed and English speaking school. You would really struggle to find any teacher in a 'real' international school in Bangkok that hated it. They are fantastic places to work.

I would also say that age isn't a factor in international schools. We have about 80 staff across primary and secondary and a good number of them are easily over 50. It seems what I hear from TEFL teachers is that all these language schools or Thai schools want to churn out young and inexperienced teachers each year to impress the parents. That isn't the case at all in international schools where skills and experience is what generally counts and they are ran very similarly to a school in the UK.

stament · May 6, 2020

32 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I would definitely recommend getting the PGCE and QTS if you can. However, not doing the NQT year or RQT year will restrict you from certain international schools as many do not hire fresh NQTs.

I am also not sure whether it is that easy to get on the PGCE courses at certain ages. I did mine when I was 25. Perhaps you might consider doing the PGCEi, but that would limit you to the lower level international schools where it will probably only be salary and no benefits.

Teaching in international schools is literally incomparable to TEFL teaching. Work environment, students, fellow staff, salary, benefits, the day to day teaching etc are all generally great. People who have only worked in the Thai education system really cannot comprehend the differences of working in a western managed and English speaking school. You would really struggle to find any teacher in a 'real' international school in Bangkok that hated it. They are fantastic places to work.

I would also say that age isn't a factor in international schools. We have about 80 staff across primary and secondary and a good number of them are easily over 50. It seems what I hear from TEFL teachers is that all these language schools or Thai schools want to churn out young and inexperienced teachers each year to impress the parents. That isn't the case at all in international schools where skills and experience is what generally counts and they are ran very similarly to a school in the UK.

Thanks BobbyL good to hear.

allane · May 6, 2020

You can lie about your age if you want to, but your birth date is on your passport.

Edited May 6, 2020 by allane
x

Denim · May 6, 2020

16 hours ago, Ventenio said:

it's exhausting for fit people.

Tell me about it. I used to work at the AUA Rajdamri 30 years ago.

3.00 pm straight through to 9.00 pm . 6 x 1 hour classes with no break in between except the 5 minutes as one lot trooped out and the next lot came in. Non air con classroom and chalk boards in the hot season. Man , it was tough and completely mentally exhausting. Used to ride home , light one up and then just veg out in front of a TV with a beer totally incapable of holding a conversation.

Neeranam · May 6, 2020

Stay away from kids. Teach business English - much more appropriate for a 50-year old and less BS.

I taught kids 25 years ago and it was extremely tiring and they are annoying little ****.

Neeranam · May 6, 2020

6 hours ago, Denim said:

Tell me about it. I used to work at the AUA Rajdamri 30 years ago.

3.00 pm straight through to 9.00 pm . 6 x 1 hour classes with no break in between except the 5 minutes as one lot trooped out and the next lot came in. Non air con classroom and chalk boards in the hot season. Man , it was tough and completely mentally exhausting. Used to ride home , light one up and then just veg out in front of a TV with a beer totally incapable of holding a conversation.

And the traffic before the sky strain!

It took me 4 hours to get home on a Friday from The Shangri La hotel to Ramkhamhaeng.

revup · May 7, 2020

I have been working as a chemistry teacher for 16 years. I have a Bachelors (honors), a Ph.D., and a post grad diploma in education from a Thai university. When I turned 60, the Thai university informed me of my impending retirement. Despite all my best efforts, when my contract ended 8 months later, the University did not renew my contract. I received a reasonable compensation given the years worked. The University's school continued to hire me. Overall, I have 50% of my former salary.

The schools contract says I will undergo 'mental assessment' each year before being issued a new contract.

I applied for many teaching jobs around BKK during the past 12 months, but as soon as they learn my age, the dialog stops.

Teaching online is an uphill struggle, I have prepared well except that I have not yet had a single student.

I do a little editing through online agencies like Wallis Editing and Edanz. The pay is not great but the work is fairly continuous.

One surprisingly negative aspect is the response from co-workers, there are two who feel they have an axe to grind. They are running a passive-aggressive campaign bad mouthing the idea of working with 'retired' teachers. I feel highly vulnerable in my present situation, and their behavior gives me significant anxiety.

There is a lot more sympathy from those in their late 50s.

My best advice is to prepare by saving, learning new skills, and looking for several income sources for the future.

Good luck

Edited May 7, 2020 by revup
typos

donmuang37 · May 7, 2020

I'm 83 next week and have been teaching English for 15 years. Started when I was 68. So you can teach at your age for sure. But if you don't have a additional source of income, prepare to be poor.

Most gov't schools don't have A/C and you may have up to 60 kids, none of whom you can fail regardless of how low their test scores are or how they behave. International schools do pay more but not enough to save for retirement. Plus the students are all a lots richer than you, so if some spoiled, lazy kid doesn't learn anything, it will be your fault, not his! Prepare to eat humble pie.

Having said that, I have enjoyed my time teaching. Some of my students were great, both kids and adults. The money is pathetic, but I have retirement pay, plus a house an two cars bought with cash, so we are comfortable. Teaching keeps my mind active and keeps me from getting bored. Best of luck to you!

simon43 · May 7, 2020

Why not teach online? I used to teach Science and ESL in Burma and Laos, (both with a 100,000+ baht salary), but decided at 60 years old to change to teaching 'online' from my rented house in Laos. I teach elementary grade science 3 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the early evening, and collect more than my 'bricks & mortar' salary of previous years.... ????

Oh, I have a science MSc, but no education degree and no QTS...

Edited May 7, 2020 by simon43

alien365 · May 7, 2020

What is your current education level? If you have a master's degree you may be able to work in one of the universities. Technically 60 is still the retirement age, but this option would save you the time and years of getting a proper teaching qualification. The staff and students are more mature at this level, you teach fewer hours, and you may just end up with class sizes where you can actually help the students improve.

flinc2020 · May 7, 2020

I enjoy(ed) teaching and have just turned 60 and can honestly say that teaching is a wonderful profession. Just to see the kids faces light up when realisation hits them is great. Then there's teaching in Thailand.... The small ,matter of not being allowed to fail a student, even if they do nothing all semester is a little irksome, having to lie to yourself that what you are doing is right because that is what the Thais want, lying to the parents who are paying through the nose for an education for their kid in a school where money is the main factor (I've only worked private schools here) and daily having to deal (especially if you teach Matoyam where they are olld enough to realise they don't need to work to pass) with large classes of students who have no desire to learn. It has definitely put me off teaching, at least here in Thailand. When you have students sending a message via the teaching assistant to inform you they won't be studying that day because they are tired, throwing water bottles at teachers backs as they are writing on the board, being told to take the end of term exam/performance results away and rewrite them because 100% of the students MUST score above 70% overall when you KNOW only 5% of the students could even hope to achieve that score. It can be very demoralizing teaching here. If you are genuinely interested in teaching then either get the qualifications to work in an international school that follows and overseas curriculum or go to China, Vietnam, Japan, or Korea to teach, it will be infinitley more rewarding and you will be treated better than you will here.

Expat Tom · May 7, 2020

I tried to read all of these opinions but soon got bored by pundits, many of whom knew nothing of which they were writing.

I taught English in Thailand. I was the head of the foreign teachers at a major university in Bangkok. I hired and fired teachers. I hired non-degreed teachers and teacher without teachers without certifications from their home country for specific projects. I taught and managed contract programs teaching English for local industries. I taught and managed for credit English courses at the University level.

Here are some of my opinions, take them or reject them as you will;

1) I would never teach in a Thai public school. Low pay, long hours and poor conditions.

2) If you want to teach at a k-12 international school, you need certification from your home country and experience (in most cases). Less experience, lower pay.

3) Teaching is a great way to supplement other income but I wouldn't want to live on a teacher's income only. Having said that, many people do.

4) If you want to make anything more than bare substance money reaching, Thailand is not the place. Consider Taiwan or Korea or even Vietnam.

5) I gave up my position at the University about 3 years ago and teach online only. It is a lot less hassle and (generally) pays more than twice what you can earn teaching in school in Thailand.

BobbyL · May 7, 2020

22 minutes ago, donmuang37 said:

International schools do pay more but not enough to save for retirement.

That definitely isn't true. I earn considerably more here annually teaching in an international school than I did when I was teaching in England.

DUNROAMIN · May 7, 2020

Watch your back!

DavisH · May 7, 2020

1 hour ago, BobbyL said:

That definitely isn't true. I earn considerably more here annually teaching in an international school than I did when I was teaching in England.

The taxes and living costs are much lower here also. Even 60K in a lower paying School is enough in many cases - as long as one is not out partying every night. But it would be hard to save for retirement on that kind of salary.

Neeranam · May 7, 2020

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Why not teach online? I used to teach Science and ESL in Burma and Laos, (both with a 100,000+ baht salary), but decided at 60 years old to change to teaching 'online' from my rented house in Laos. I teach elementary grade science 3 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the early evening, and collect more than my 'bricks & mortar' salary of previous years.... ????

Oh, I have a science MSc, but no education degree and no QTS...

I have no idea why more don't teach online. The secret is to get a job with few hours to provide your WP. I was getting 120-140k a month extra($30-60/hour) with my supplementary online job. The only reason I kept the school job at 40k was to get Thai Citizenship.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Neeranam

saakura · May 7, 2020

2 hours ago, revup said:

I have been working as a chemistry teacher for 16 years. I have a Bachelors (honors), a Ph.D., and a post grad diploma in education from a Thai university. When I turned 60, the Thai university informed me of my impending retirement. Despite all my best efforts, when my contract ended 8 months later, the University did not renew my contract. I received a reasonable compensation given the years worked. The University's school continued to hire me. Overall, I have 50% of my former salary.

The schools contract says I will undergo 'mental assessment' each year before being issued a new contract.

I applied for many teaching jobs around BKK during the past 12 months, but as soon as they learn my age, the dialog stops.

Teaching online is an uphill struggle, I have prepared well except that I have not yet had a single student.

I do a little editing through online agencies like Wallis Editing and Edanz. The pay is not great but the work is fairly continuous.

One surprisingly negative aspect is the response from co-workers, there are two who feel they have an axe to grind. They are running a passive-aggressive campaign bad mouthing the idea of working with 'retired' teachers. I feel highly vulnerable in my present situation, and their behavior gives me significant anxiety.

There is a lot more sympathy from those in their late 50s.

My best advice is to prepare by saving, learning new skills, and looking for several income sources for the future.

Good luck

Foolish to the extreme. How does age matter here when teaching chemistry and that too, with your excellent qualifications? As long as you are physically fit, a teacher with a long experience should be given preference!

drguid · May 7, 2020

I had an offer to teach in a Bangkok school but I told the agency I wouldn't re-sign the new contract as there's just too much uncertainty. Oh well, it was only one of those 35K contracts anyway.

I've thought about doing a PGCE (Secondary Chemistry) in the UK. I taught for a couple of years in Chinese universities and really enjoyed teaching, but after what happened there it's unlikely I'll ever want to go back.

I'm almost 50 now so I wonder whether the PGCE would be worthwhile. I used to work in IT. In fact I may or may not be starting an IT job next month, but again there's just too much uncertainty right now. I found IT's not an easy career either when you're approaching 50.

I've tried teaching online but the market leader (vipkid) are really picky and the others are shady (for example they want you to install Chinese apps) or they only pay by PayPal (which I don't have).

My saving grace is that I'm not broke like the majority of English teachers I worked with in China. To be approaching 60 with no pension at all would be truly scary.

stament · May 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I have no idea why more don't teach online. The secret is to get a job with few hours to provide your WP. I was getting 120-140k a month extra($30-60/hour) with my supplementary online job. The only reason I kept the school job at 40k was to get Thai Citizenship.

Did you get citizenship?

simon43 · May 7, 2020

Several years ago, I was given a firm offer to study the online PGCE from Nottingham University. I didn't proceed with that study because I was about 57 years old and in secure and enjoyable teaching employment in Burma. There was nothing to be gained (financially) by obtaining the PGCE. Many schools would not employ an 'old man', and my Burmese employer was (is) happy to employ me to teach science until I reach 100 years old! (so, about the same age as many of their local teachers lol).

My online teaching job provides me (in Laos) with a business visa, work permit and very flexible and enjoyable work. I saved on the PGCE fee and spent it all on beer and loose women (thank heavens I didn't waste it!).

EricTh · May 7, 2020

On 5/6/2020 at 1:44 PM, Denim said:

Tell me about it. I used to work at the AUA Rajdamri 30 years ago.

3.00 pm straight through to 9.00 pm . 6 x 1 hour classes with no break in between except the 5 minutes as one lot trooped out and the next lot came in. Non air con classroom and chalk boards in the hot season. Man , it was tough and completely mentally exhausting. Used to ride home , light one up and then just veg out in front of a TV with a beer totally incapable of holding a conversation.

At least you have a job. Most foreigners can't even get a teaching job legally in Thailand.

The work permit is difficult to obtain and the job vacancies are met with full of qualified applicants.

Edited May 7, 2020 by EricTh

Scott · May 7, 2020

Troll post removed.

teacherclaire · May 20, 2020

Mulling over whether there is any benefit at my age of getting a PGCE and QTS in England if my shelf life in Thailand is short. Should I be aiming at primary or secondary school?

Your last sentence says it all. You have no idea about teaching in Thailand.

You're still "young enough" to work as a teacher, but if you don't have the needed qualifications being that old, you might be a dreamer.

Having almost no vital education, but wanting to work for an International school sounds insane to me.

And I'm honest with you after teaching here for a long time with a license.

The retirement at 60 is for Thai teachers. I've met quite a few 60 + year old teachers who didn't have a problem to get their contract renewed because they were professionals.

teacherclaire · May 20, 2020

On 5/7/2020 at 3:44 PM, EricTh said:

At least you have a job. Most foreigners can't even get a teaching job legally in Thailand.

The work permit is difficult to obtain and the job vacancies are met with full of qualified applicants.

That's not true. Too many of these teachers who are now complaining that they can't get a job anymore were just too lazy to think about the possible solutions for the future.

Those who don't have/had a degree have/had so many years to go for a Diploma in TE, or a BA in education, offered by a Filipino university in Bangkok.

Even if the degree or Diploma isn't worth the paper it's written on, all teachers had the chance to sign up for an affordable and suitable degree/Diploma that led to the teacher's license.

Even a few years ago, there's enough information; these accredited courses are possible to pay in monthly installments. No excuse.

Those who preferred to spend the money on beer and girls are the ones who now believe that Thailand's educational system mistreats them.

They had enough time to do something. There's no excuse for those who've been teaching here for more than ten years, wanting to stay and live here for the rest of their lives.

Unfortunately, did too many believe that being from the UK, or the US alone should be enough to teach English.

If I were Swiss, could I teach German in any country in the world, just because I had to learn German at school? Of course NOT.

I have many Thai friends, without teaching degrees, but could they go to a Western country and teach Thai, just because their native tongue is Thai? Of course, not.

No way, that just doesn't work. So why do some people here believe that it works for English speaking foreigners?

Sorry, but that gives me the creep when somebody without any education who worked as a "plumber assistant", or similar before, all of a sudden believes that he/she would be a good English teacher.

It's not only about how good you are at a language, and you need some psychological and a few other skills.

You have to understand if they got you by just looking at their reaction.

The sad truth is that some foreigners here believe that the students are dumb if they don't understand the foreigners' "Manchasta" or other slang that is hardly followed by Americans.

My two baht to it.

Edited May 20, 2020 by teacherclaire
Make Thailand Great Again.

teacherclaire · May 20, 2020

On 5/7/2020 at 10:41 AM, Expat Tom said:

I tried to read all of these opinions but soon got bored by pundits, many of whom knew nothing of which they were writing.

I taught English in Thailand. I was the head of the foreign teachers at a major university in Bangkok. I hired and fired teachers. I hired non-degreed teachers and teacher without teachers without certifications from their home country for specific projects. I taught and managed contract programs teaching English for local industries. I taught and managed for credit English courses at the University level.

Here are some of my opinions, take them or reject them as you will;

1) I would never teach in a Thai public school. Low pay, long hours and poor conditions.

2) If you want to teach at a k-12 international school, you need certification from your home country and experience (in most cases). Less experience, lower pay.

3) Teaching is a great way to supplement other income but I wouldn't want to live on a teacher's income only. Having said that, many people do.

4) If you want to make anything more than bare substance money reaching, Thailand is not the place. Consider Taiwan or Korea or even Vietnam.

5) I gave up my position at the University about 3 years ago and teach online only. It is a lot less hassle and (generally) pays more than twice what you can earn teaching in school in Thailand.

I hired non-degreed teachers and teacher without teachers without certifications from their home country for specific projects.

?

OumarhindaOunsingha · May 22, 2020

On 5/20/2020 at 4:38 PM, teacherclaire said:

That's not true. Too many of these teachers who are now complaining that they can't get a job anymore were just too lazy to think about the possible solutions for the future.

Those who don't have/had a degree have/had so many years to go for a Diploma in TE, or a BA in education, offered by a Filipino university in Bangkok.

Even if the degree or Diploma isn't worth the paper it's written on, all teachers had the chance to sign up for an affordable and suitable degree/Diploma that led to the teacher's license.

Even a few years ago, there's enough information; these accredited courses are possible to pay in monthly installments. No excuse.

Those who preferred to spend the money on beer and girls are the ones who now believe that Thailand's educational system mistreats them.

They had enough time to do something. There's no excuse for those who've been teaching here for more than ten years, wanting to stay and live here for the rest of their lives.

Unfortunately, did too many believe that being from the UK, or the US alone should be enough to teach English.

If I were Swiss, could I teach German in any country in the world, just because I had to learn German at school? Of course NOT.

I have many Thai friends, without teaching degrees, but could they go to a Western country and teach Thai, just because their native tongue is Thai? Of course, not.

No way, that just doesn't work. So why do some people here believe that it works for English speaking foreigners?

Sorry, but that gives me the creep when somebody without any education who worked as a "plumber assistant", or similar before, all of a sudden believes that he/she would be a good English teacher.

It's not only about how good you are at a language, and you need some psychological and a few other skills.

You have to understand if they got you by just looking at their reaction.

The sad truth is that some foreigners here believe that the students are dumb if they don't understand the foreigners' "Manchasta" or other slang that is hardly followed by Americans.

My two baht to it.

Why should an Americal or British plumber assistant not be able to teach English to Thai kids at an international school? Until a few years ago my highest formal educational level was that of high school, but I still was a very skilled pianist (classical music). Certainly I was qualified to teach children piano. There just weren't any jobs. I am sure there are native English speaking plumber assistants out there who could teach Thai kids English very well - why not?

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