'We will meet again': Britain honours World War Two anniversary

[snoop1130]

'We will meet again': Britain honours World War Two anniversary

By Michael Holden and Andrew MacAskill

 

A man takes a picture of the Commando Memorial on the 75th Anniversary of VE Day in Lochaber, Scotland, Britain, May 8, 2020. REUTERS/Russell Cheyne

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britons stood in silence and Queen Elizabeth was to address the nation on Friday's 75th anniversary of "Victory in Europe" Day, though the coronavirus dampened commemorations for the end of World War Two on the continent.

 

Prince Charles led a two-minute silence outside his family's Balmoral estate, military jets flew over the United Kingdom's four capitals, and 1940s-style tea parties were planned in homes.

 

The original plans for extensive events to herald VE Day, when allied forces accepted the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, were scaled back after the government banned social gatherings from March to curb the coronavirus.

 

A veterans' procession and other events involving crowds were scrapped, but flags and banners fluttered throughout the nation, and people stuck at home due to the lockdown enjoyed a day of special television and radio programmes.

 

On the white cliffs of Dover, a lone piper played bagpipes as wartime Spitfire planes flew by.

 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson invoked the "heroism of countless ordinary people" in his tribute to the millions of Britons who fought and lived through the war.

 

"Today we must celebrate their achievement, and we remember their sacrifice," Johnson said in an address published on his Twitter page. "We are a free people because of everything our veterans did -  we offer our gratitude, our heartfelt thanks and our solemn pledge: you will always be remembered."

 

TEA AND SINGING

 

There were commemorations too across the water in France, where President Emmanuel Macron held the traditional wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

 

Britain's 94-year-old queen's address was to come exactly 75 years after her father George VI gave a victory speech over the radio to the nation.

 

Elizabeth, a teenager when the war broke out, learned to drive military trucks and be a mechanic while serving in the women's Auxiliary Territorial Service. She was in Buckingham Palace when it was bombed in September 1940.

 

Since becoming queen 68 years ago, Elizabeth has rarely made broadcasts to the nation except her annual Christmas Day message, but her VE Day speech will be the third such address since the coronavirus outbreak.

 

Last month, she invoked the spirit of World War Two, calling for the public to show the same resolve and echoing the words of the song "We’ll Meet Again" by Vera Lynn which became a symbol of hope for Britons during the conflict.

 

As part of Friday's celebrations, after the queen's address at 2000 GMT, Britons were being encouraged to open their doors and join in a nationwide singalong of Lynn's song. People were urged to decorate their houses and enjoy afternoon tea.

 

Welsh opera singer Katherine Jenkins was to give a solo performance at London's Royal Albert Hall, in the first concert behind closed doors in its 150-year history.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-05-08

 

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[twocatsmac]

We triumphed over evil. 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by twocatsmac

[Tug]

It is VE Day a bright spot on today’s darkness let us not repeat this let us all work together to make the world a better place honor the sacrifice and courage peace to all mankind 

[Justgrazing]

4 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

when allied forces accepted the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany,

A moment of great rejoicing and thanksgiving for the blood , sweat , tears and sacrifice of the previous 6 yrs .. It is one of those defining dates etched into the consciousness of millions of the time and the importance of which has been handed down generations since .. And within days the allies were having to plan Operation Unthinkable .. A military operation to give the Soviets a bloody nose and push them back out of Germany and Poland that they seemed very reluctant to give up after the fighting ended .. In private it is said this caused Churchill much consternation as the reason Britain declared war on Germany 6 yrs previously was after they invaded Poland refusing to leave and it therefore could not be allowed that Russia now do the same .. In the event the Allied Military planners signalled forget it as the Russian forces outnumbered the Allies in many area's and as they had shown in the march on Berlin they were quite willing to sacrifice huge numbers of personnel to attain their goals with the resources to replace the slaughtered .. the respective populaces of the Allied nations also wanted their men home and Churchill was voted out within weeks of the end of the war so it was never developed beyond prelim' stage but elements of the planning for Operation Unthinkable formed the original blueprint for the defence of Western Europe and the subsequent stand off between the Allies and the Soviets that lasted for decades .. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Justgrazing
Sp

[twocatsmac]

2 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

A moment of great rejoicing and thanksgiving for the blood , sweat , tears and sacrifice of the previous 6 yrs .. It is one of those defining dates etched into the consciousness of millions of the time and the importance of which has been handed down generations since .. And within days the allies were having to plan Operation Unthinkable .. A military operation to give the Soviets a bloody nose and push them back out of Germany and Poland that they seemed very reluctant to give up after the fighting ended .. In private it is said this caused Churchill much consternation as the reason Britain declared war on Germany 6 yrs previously was after they invaded Poland refusing to leave and it therefore could not be allowed that Russia now do the same .. In the event the Allied Military planners signalled forget it as the Russian forces outnumbered the Allies in many area's and as they had shown in the march on Berlin they were quite willing to sacrifice huge numbers of personnel to attain their goals with the resources to replace the slaughtered .. the respective populaces of the Allied nations also wanted their men home and Churchill was voted out within weeks of the end of the war so it was never developed beyond prelim' stage but elements of the planning for Operation Unthinkable formed the original blueprint for the defence of Western Europe and the subsequent stand off between the Allies and the Soviets that lasted for decades .. 

There wasn’t the will to fight on and an end to war was preferred by allied populace.

I have Polish friends that use the expression “hate the Germans but hate the Russians more”

Churchill planned to re arm German prisoners of war and push the Russians back to retake Poland, the country as you point out we declared war on Germany to protect.

History books don’t do justice to the facts, a hollow victory for Eastern European countries.

 

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, twocatsmac said:

There wasn’t the will to fight on and an end to war was preferred by allied populace.

I have Polish friends that use the expression “hate the Germans but hate the Russians more”

Churchill planned to re arm German prisoners of war and push the Russians back to retake Poland, the country as you point out we declared war on Germany to protect.

History books don’t do justice to the facts, a hollow victory for Eastern European countries.

 

.. Indeed and Poland had every right to fear the Russians given the Ribbentrop/Molotov pact in which Germany and Russia secretly agreed to carve up Poland .. Stalin entered into this as he feared the German military build up at the time and seen it as a way of holding A H at arms length while Russia improved their own military strength .. at the onset of hostilities between Britain and Germany Stalin envisaged a rerun of WW1 trench warfare in which Germany , Britain and France would slug it out among themselves to an exhausting standstill presenting Russia then with a possibility of invading from the East and just marching straight through to the French coast past shattered armies .. but the German Blitzkrieg of the Low Countries and France soon altered that perception .. which was shaken even more by the German invasion of Russia in 1941 declared by A H to be a war of annihilation .. Stalin responded in kind once they'd reversed some of the earlier setbacks and it then followed that when the tide turned and Russia invaded Germany they would occupy it in the same way as the Germans had hoped to occupy Russia but unfortunately Poland ,  the Baltic countries , etc were all caught behind the same Iron curtain imposed by Russia leading to the 44 year stand off between the USSR and the West to ensure that they didn't realise Stalin's desire of taking all of Europe under the Communist yoke .. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Justgrazing
Sp

[Davo369]

[Davo369]

[Road Warrior]

WE must never forget -- a retired Englishman 

[nausea]

Strange thing I've found, guys who where were heavily involved don't like to talk about it too much. Most of them dead now.

[Chomper Higgot]

“Today we must celebrate their achievement, and we remember their sacrifice," Johnson said in an address published on his Twitter page. "We are a free people because of everything our veterans did -  we offer our gratitude, our heartfelt thanks and our solemn pledge: you will always be remembered."

 

The debt is a bit wider than ‘our veterans’:

 

This by example from Edinburgh’s Princes’ Street Gardens, but let’s not forget all who fought to defeat the Nazis.

[Burma Bill]

The unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany:- (by now Adolf Hitler was dead. He committed suicide on April 30th 1945)

 

Signed at Berlin on the ⁠ 8. ⁠ day of May, 1945

Von Friedeburg  ⁠Keitel  ⁠Stumpff

On behalf of the German High Command

 

IN THE PRESENCE OF:

A. W. Tedder On behalf of the   ⁠Supreme Commander ⁠Allied Expedtionary Force

Georgi Zhukov        On behalf of the ⁠       Supreme High Command of the ⁠       Red Army

⁠At the signing also were present as witnesses:

F. de Lattre-Tassigny General Commanding in     Chief ⁠First French Army

Carl Spaatz  General, Commanding ⁠United States Strategic Air Forces

  Edited May 9, 2020 by Burma Bill
additional information

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, nausea said:

Strange thing I've found, guys who where were heavily involved don't like to talk about it too much. Most of them dead now.

They never did, my parents and all my Uncles and Aunts fought, or were in the land army, or hospitals. They never talked to us about it except the funny bits. I have two aunts left, 97 and 99, ATS, and land army. They don't celebrate much, it was the most horrifying <deleted>show of their lives, they would rather forget it.

The tragedy is the political grandstanding of a generation (The boomers) who gave nothing. Most real veterans could do without it. 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Today we must celebrate their achievement, and we remember their sacrifice," Johnson said in an address published on his Twitter page. "We are a free people because of everything our veterans did -  we offer our gratitude, our heartfelt thanks and our solemn pledge: you will always be remembered."

 

The debt is a bit wider than ‘our veterans’:

 

This by example from Edinburgh’s Princes’ Street Gardens, but let’s not forget all who fought to defeat the Nazis.

I think some 25% of the battle of Britain fighter pilot heroes, were Polish in fact. Then there are the Russians who lost 20M, and broke the German army at Stalingrad, and the panzer divisions at Kursk. As you correctly say, the fight was of ALL allies, fighting to defeat fascism. I am grateful that almost all the veterans didn't live to see Fascism creeping back in Europe and so many places in the world, it would have broken their hearts.

[AgMech Cowboy]

19 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

On the white cliffs of Dover, a lone piper played bagpipes as wartime Spitfire planes flew by.

Now that's cool. I hope to find a video or picture of it.

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

A moment of great rejoicing and thanksgiving for the blood , sweat , tears and sacrifice of the previous 6 yrs .. It is one of those defining dates etched into the consciousness of millions of the time and the importance of which has been handed down generations since .. And within days the allies were having to plan Operation Unthinkable .. A military operation to give the Soviets a bloody nose and push them back out of Germany and Poland that they seemed very reluctant to give up after the fighting ended .. In private it is said this caused Churchill much consternation as the reason Britain declared war on Germany 6 yrs previously was after they invaded Poland refusing to leave and it therefore could not be allowed that Russia now do the same .. In the event the Allied Military planners signalled forget it as the Russian forces outnumbered the Allies in many area's and as they had shown in the march on Berlin they were quite willing to sacrifice huge numbers of personnel to attain their goals with the resources to replace the slaughtered .. the respective populaces of the Allied nations also wanted their men home and Churchill was voted out within weeks of the end of the war so it was never developed beyond prelim' stage but elements of the planning for Operation Unthinkable formed the original blueprint for the defence of Western Europe and the subsequent stand off between the Allies and the Soviets that lasted for decades .. 

 

Interesting point. When Germany invaded Poland from the West, the Soviets invaded Poland from the East. This was to carve Poland up between the then allies, Nazi Germany and Soviet USSR Russia. Question: why did the British declare war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR?

Once Hitler broke his treaty with Stalin and invaded the USSR, then on the basis of my enemy's enemy is my friend, the USSR came over to the Allied side.

 

When USSR invaded Poland the NSKVD started to eliminate potential resistance, mass murder, sending to Gulags, etc. Anyone they thought might oppose them, even if the poor victim had no such thoughts. And land they occupied was never returned to Poland which as a country was shifted Westwards.

 

General Patton also wanted to fight the Soviets so Churchill was far from the only one who saw another regime just as evil and despotic as the Nazis.

 

The Eastern European countries had to suffer Soviet occupation and rules for decades. Hungary and Czechoslovakia rose up and were crushed. Ironically it was Poland that started the cracks and break up.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Today we must celebrate their achievement, and we remember their sacrifice," Johnson said in an address published on his Twitter page. "We are a free people because of everything our veterans did -  we offer our gratitude, our heartfelt thanks and our solemn pledge: you will always be remembered."

 

The debt is a bit wider than ‘our veterans’:

 

This by example from Edinburgh’s Princes’ Street Gardens, but let’s not forget all who fought to defeat the Nazis.

 

You just can't help yourself, can you. Sad really, and so transparent.

 

All the countries that fought the Nazis, and modern Germans, are celebrating the destruction of the Nazis. Most leaders refer to "veterans" or "our veterans". They are not excluding any group of veterans, or forgetting them, as you seek to imply and criticize.

 

I will look up what the leaders of your country, which Allied forces liberated twice in the early 20th century say, and see what terminology they use.

 

Unfortunately, some countries weren't lucky enough to be liberated by the Allies, like yours was. They were occupied by the Soviets who were as oppressive as the Nazis they defeated.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

They never did, my parents and all my Uncles and Aunts fought, or were in the land army, or hospitals. They never talked to us about it except the funny bits. I have two aunts left, 97 and 99, ATS, and land army. They don't celebrate much, it was the most horrifying <deleted>show of their lives, they would rather forget it.

The tragedy is the political grandstanding of a generation (The boomers) who gave nothing. Most real veterans could do without it. 

I think some 25% of the battle of Britain fighter pilot heroes, were Polish in fact. Then there are the Russians who lost 20M, and broke the German army at Stalingrad, and the panzer divisions at Kursk. As you correctly say, the fight was of ALL allies, fighting to defeat fascism. I am grateful that almost all the veterans didn't live to see Fascism creeping back in Europe and so many places in the world, it would have broken their hearts.

 

2,936 pilots took part in the Battle of Britain fighting against the Luftwaffe.

 

2,362 were British.

 

574 were not British. They came from 15 different countries. Poland provided the largest non British contingent, approx 140 (4-5%). Interesting New Zealand provided the second largest contingent at approx 130. Some came from countries not involved in the war at that time but wanted to fight the evil of National Socialism, and volunteered.

 

All were very brave young men, risking all against very bad odds. 

 

 

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

27 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

2,936 pilots took part in the Battle of Britain fighting against the Luftwaffe.

 

2,362 were British.

 

574 were not British. They came from 15 different countries. Poland provided the largest non British contingent, approx 140 (4-5%). Interesting New Zealand provided the second largest contingent at approx 130. Some came from countries not involved in the war at that time but wanted to fight the evil of National Socialism, and volunteered.

 

All were very brave young men, risking all against very bad odds. 

 

 

 

 

 I don't know where I got that statistic from, it's been with me for a while. It appears to be incorrect, I acknowledge that. Probably related to something similar but not actually the same.

[Justgrazing]

17 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Interesting point. When Germany invaded Poland from the West, the Soviets invaded Poland from the East. This was to carve Poland up between the then allies, Nazi Germany and Soviet USSR Russia. Question: why did the British declare war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR?

Once Hitler broke his treaty with Stalin and invaded the USSR, then on the basis of my enemy's enemy is my friend, the USSR came over to the Allied side.

Well made point B B .. The Anglo Polish pact of 1939 in which Britain pledged to stand by Poland against aggression apparently included a clause that stated the British would only act against German aggression .. there was no mention of Russia .. This was not made public at the time as the feeling was that might invite other questions about the worth of the pact .. not withstanding initially Britain could offer little more than moral support to Poland against one aggressor let alone two so when Russia also invaded from the east on the 17th apart from " protesting in the strongest possible terms " via diplomatic channels there was little else Britain could do for the time being .. 

 

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

When USSR invaded Poland the NSKVD started to eliminate potential resistance, mass murder, sending to Gulags, etc. Anyone they thought might oppose them, even if the poor victim had no such thoughts. And land they occupied was never returned to Poland which as a country was shifted Westwards.

For sure .. Russia had an expansionist policy alongside the Nazi's just as ruthless that was displayed in Poland early 1940 with the Katyn massacres , murdering 000's of the Polish Army officer core , Lawyers , Land owners and other members of Polish high society and anyone else they felt a threat .. and within a couple of mths of invading Poland they were fighting the Finns in trying to seize parts of Finland and on the same day Germany invaded the Low Countries in 1940 Russia overran the Baltic states of Estonia , Latvia and Lithuania .. Another signal of their aggression policy was the T34 tank that would ultimately help them to victory which was in operation by 1940 having only being on the drawing board in 1937 .. This aggression and military build contributed to the German invasion of Russia 1941 as A H was of the mind that Russia were preparing to attack Germany in the not too distant future so Germany acted first with the preemptive strike of Operation Barbarossa .. 

 

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

General Patton also wanted to fight the Soviets so Churchill was far from the only one who saw another regime just as evil and despotic as the Nazis.

Patton was certainly less than complimentary to the Russians and is said to have posed the question

" have we defeated the wrong enemy ? " and was one of the more bellicose about action against the Russians which fuelled the conspiracy theories surrounding his death after a road accident late 1945 .. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You just can't help yourself, can you. Sad really, and so transparent.

 

All the countries that fought the Nazis, and modern Germans, are celebrating the destruction of the Nazis. Most leaders refer to "veterans" or "our veterans". They are not excluding any group of veterans, or forgetting them, as you seek to imply and criticize.

 

I will look up what the leaders of your country, which Allied forces liberated twice in the early 20th century say, and see what terminology they use.

 

Unfortunately, some countries weren't lucky enough to be liberated by the Allies, like yours was. They were occupied by the Soviets who were as oppressive as the Nazis they defeated.

“You just can't help yourself, can you. Sad really, and so transparent.”

 

If you wish to dispute the undeniably significant contribution made by non British servicemen and women in the defense of Britain and defeat of the Nazi, please do it elsewhere.

 

As others have recognized in this thread, the contribution of Polish servicemen, specifically in the defeat of the Nazis in the pivotal Battle of Britain was enormous.

 

At no time between the Dunkirk evacuation to the surrender of Nazi forces did Britain not rely heavily on non British servicemen and women fighting from within and along side British forces to defend the U.K. 

 

Tens of thousands of British citizens living in the UK are descendants of these foreign born fighters who fought for the freedom and liberty of which Johnson spoke. 

 

It is disgraceful that that he failed to

mention the contribution those men and women made.

 

As for your wandering off on a discussion based on your assumptions of my nationality, perhaps you consider who it is who can’t help themselves.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[simple1]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

Strange thing I've found, guys who where were heavily involved don't like to talk about it too much. Most of them dead now.

Both of my uncles were infantry veterans from British 8th Division - never spoke about the war

[anyone]

Brits and US played very small role in WW2 ending. It was war between Germany and USSR. 
Don't be fooled with Hollywood production.

[Janner1]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Both of my uncles were infantry veterans from British 8th Division - never spoke about the war

My father was a 8th army desert rat and the only thing he talked about was how the kites nicked your food just as you were about to eat it and the Arabs who would nick anything they could.

 

Like all veterans of that evil war Fought across the world,did not talk about it because they were stunned into silence by the wholesale slaughter of the human races.

we must never forget them or the other brave souls who never returned.

 

Those of you who live in Thailand If you have not done so should visit The war graves in Kanchanaburi, I bet you will not be dry eyed for long, almost every nation is represented there, many of whom were only 18 years old.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

My father was a 8th army desert rat and the only thing he talked about was how the kites nicked your food just as you were about to eat it and the Arabs who would nick anything they could.

 

Like all veterans of that evil war Fought across the world,did not talk about it because they were stunned into silence by the wholesale slaughter of the human races.

we must never forget them or the other brave souls who never returned.

 

Those of you who live in Thailand If you have not done so should visit The war graves in Kanchanaburi, I bet you will not be dry eyed for long, almost every nation is represented there, many of whom were only 18 years old.

Alan Whicker's autobiography was a bit of an eye opener when i read it a few years back. As a 19 year old 'Rupert' (officer) he was assigned to a fledgling film crew in N Africa & filmed most of the footage that survives from the likes of El Alemain, Tobruk, Sicily, Anzio, Monte Casino & Rome. His unit eventually became the SKC and later the SSVC .

 

Some of that footage from his early years perhaps explains why he appeared so unflappable while filming Whicker's World a few years later.