Early end to U.S. state lockdowns could cause needless 'suffering and death' - Fauci

[Opl]

15 minutes ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Dont people realize Fauchi is a political hack its easy to see who all of his associates are. How many people are loosing everything theyve worked hard for, cant put food on the table no govt bailout for everyone. Kids not able to attend school. You have to dig deeper this guy is the problem who is he what is he hes been a politician his whole career. Dont fall for it.

 

People realize that Fauci became head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in 1984 ...... 

"I served six presidents and I have never done anything other than tell the exact scientific evidence and made policy recommendations based on the science and the evidence," 

deep enough? 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Opl

[White Christmas13]

7 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

Just a note in passing concerning the US of A,  I wonder if there is another country in the world that has become so partisan with two political parties that are constantly opposing in totally bad faith concerning 100% of what the other party said, intelligent or stupid true or false everything that the opposing party says will be denigrated and ridiculed by the members of the other one!  It makes me sad for this country which was so magnificient and that I admired for a long time but that I no longer admire because I have the impression that politically it has become stupid (sorry) I find it sad and I hope that it will be able to change sooner than later! 

They should rename the country to "The divided states of America"

[RANGER55]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Beyond seven weeks of lockdown is not sustainable. It is easy for someone like Fauci to take the safe route. He is basically a shrill for big pharma. But, what about the little guy? The common man? Fauci earns $384,000 in salary, plus countless benefits, plus fees for speaking engagements, etc. etc. Quite a far cry from 65% of Americans who had only two months or so, of savings once this thing started. 

 

You cannot keep an economy shut forever. You have to let the people get back to work. You use whatever safeguards you can, and you develop herd immunity, and let the immunity system do it's work. You continue to isolate the elderly and the most vulnerable as much as possible. This experiment in insanity, known as an economic shutdown, was never supposed to be forever, or long term. It is devastating tens of millions in the US, and hundreds of millions worldwide. There are people in India and Africa spending their entire day trying to find one potato and some rice. 

 

There are a lot of people who are collecting a paycheck, or a handout, or receiving their monthly pension who are calling for a longer shutdown. For those of us who work for a living, or those of us who are self employed without massive savings, this thing is killing us. 

You are right, all these people sitting at home on their FAT A-- drawing a retirement /work check find it easy to say, less stay locked down till when? If you are one of these people fine, stay in your basement drawing your money and you will not get the virus. Fauci is a 40-year bureaucrat that has been right about nothing, just watched him in an interview on TV (of many) Jan. 21 saying. The virus is nothing to worry about, go on with your lives. He made the stupid statement, we can/may never shake hands again. Then turns around and says, on its OK to have sex with a stranger you met on the internet.

 

Here is a prediction from an economist think tank just today. If we stay locked down another several weeks 40% of jobs lost will never come back.

 

All these supposedly experts have been wrong on every prediction they have made from the beginning. But we are supposed to let an unelected bureaucrat decide the entire fate of the US economy?

 

As for number of deaths in the US per % of 100,000 people. The US is down below a lot of other countries, which are starting to open up also.

The mind set of all these people (politicians, news media) is NY, NY, NY. Well a lot of people are tired of hearing about NY and what’s best for the rest of the country base on NY.

 

Someone suggested we stop all pay to every elected official all the way down to the mayors and city councils till we get the economy open and running again. That would solved is problem fast fast.

[candide]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Lots of accusations no evidence.

He cannot. There Isn't such evidence shown in Trump's tweets. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about mail-in voting/absentee voting have been removed. 

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, if it provides you with any consolation, I consider nearly all US doctors to be shrills for big pharma. Let me ask you one question. When was the last time you visited a doctor in the US, who DID NOT write a prescription? Nothing to do with a conspiracy theory. I am NOT a Trump supporter, on any level. It is just that I discredit the US health care system, to a tremendous degree. And I despise the CDC, and the FDA. Fauci is doing his best (likely with the encouragement of Big Pharma) to discourage trying any medicines which have not undergone a clinical study (like generics, which are far less profitable, and again, with the involvement of the FDA, which oversees these tests), even if it means letting people die. He has very, very little of my respect, and none of my admiration. And I do not consider him a saint. 

 

And the US will not be putting any effort into decreasing that gap between the rich and the poor. It is moving precisely in the opposite direction, and has been since Reagan. 

It's a while since I was in the US, but yes I do understand the US healthcare system, which is based on a deeply corrupt relationship between Insurance companies, Doctors and Hospitals, and big Pharma, with the FDA arguably involved as well. (See note below) Thus you pay twice as much for health care as any other advanced country in the world. But Fauci is basically a scientist with a medical background. He provides information, that is his job, he is essentially a statistician,  neither a saint nor a hero. 

Your point about testing is mute.  "Fauci is doing his best (likely with the encouragement of Big Pharma ..any proof of this???) to discourage trying any medicines which have not undergone a clinical study." This is what every good scientist does. No one in their right mind want's to see another Thalidomide.

 

Even if it means letting people die ..........a bit cheap really. A balance has to be struck between risking death with unproven cures, and the chances of dying of (In this case) Covid 19. Hydrocloroquine wasn't that smart really was it.

 

The generics question is a huge other issue, not worth opening up here.

 

Note: the US is not alone, when my Mother was a Scottish Doctor,  agents from Pharma companies came round all the time pushing their latest pill. She hated them with a passion but was too polite to tell them to <deleted> off. 

[CharlieH]

Reported Video from unapproved source and replies to it removed.

[Tie Dye Samurai]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

I know an awful lot of biochemistry, so don't be shy if you need to raise the issue, for example, of hydroxy bonds migrating on an aromatic ring in the protein capsid layer of the virus.  I can take it.

You are asking alot here....Trump is not a scientist...he is more like a televangelist:

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” - Donald Trump on February 28th

"I blow the wind of God on you. You are destroyed forever and you will never be back." - Kenneth Copeland 

 

I think Kenneth Copeland has done more with less actually....at least he blew his hot air at the Corona Virus...Trump tweets his hot air at whomever has the Twitter app...

 

 

[Throatwobbler]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, if it provides you with any consolation, I consider nearly all US doctors to be shrills for big pharma. Let me ask you one question. When was the last time you visited a doctor in the US, who DID NOT write a prescription? Nothing to do with a conspiracy theory. I am NOT a Trump supporter, on any level. It is just that I discredit the US health care system, to a tremendous degree. And I despise the CDC, and the FDA. Fauci is doing his best (likely with the encouragement of Big Pharma) to discourage trying any medicines which have not undergone a clinical study (like generics, which are far less profitable, and again, with the involvement of the FDA, which oversees these tests), even if it means letting people die. He has very, very little of my respect, and none of my admiration. And I do not consider him a saint. 

 

And the US will not be putting any effort into decreasing that gap between the rich and the poor. It is moving precisely in the opposite direction, and has been since Reagan. 

So now you are saying that Fauci is letting people die  unless they use an expensive drug. Is there really no end to the BS that you spout. Do you have any evidence for that claim? Or has it just come from your tin foil hat wearing brigade?

[Walker88]

10 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

You are asking alot here....Trump is not a scientist...he is more like a televangelist:

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” - Donald Trump on February 28th

"I blow the wind of God on you. You are destroyed forever and you will never be back." - Kenneth Copeland 

 

I think Kenneth Copeland has done more with less actually....at least he blew his hot air at the Corona Virus...Trump tweets his hot air at whomever has the Twitter app...

 

 

I'm going to put on my Carnac the Magnificent hat and say....John Oliver. Right? That was a funny segment.

 

What some anti-Fauci folks are ignoring here is that upwards of 80% of Americans do not want to return to work, at least until a program is set up to do widespread testing and contact tracing.  So far, US testing has fallen way short of what is needed and what 45 claims. I guess because he makes sure WH staff get tested everyday, he feels secure in sending others into harm's way.

 

45 claims 5 million tests/day and that the US is #1 in testing. The reality is that so far the US has carried out only 9.6 million tests total since the pandemic began. The US population is 328 million.

[Tie Dye Samurai]

1 hour ago, Mikeasq60 said:

 You have to dig deeper this guy is the problem who is he what is he hes been a politician his whole career. Dont fall for it.

Wow...and silly me...I thought people getting sick and dying was the problem. I feel enlightened...

[Swimfan]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Beyond seven weeks of lockdown is not sustainable. It is easy for someone like Fauci to take the safe route. He is basically a shrill for big pharma. But, what about the little guy? The common man? Fauci earns $384,000 in salary, plus countless benefits, plus fees for speaking engagements, etc. etc. Quite a far cry from 65% of Americans who had only two months or so, of savings once this thing started. 

 

You cannot keep an economy shut forever. You have to let the people get back to work. You use whatever safeguards you can, and you develop herd immunity, and let the immunity system do it's work. You continue to isolate the elderly and the most vulnerable as much as possible. This experiment in insanity, known as an economic shutdown, was never supposed to be forever, or long term. It is devastating tens of millions in the US, and hundreds of millions worldwide. There are people in India and Africa spending their entire day trying to find one potato and some rice. 

 

There are a lot of people who are collecting a paycheck, or a handout, or receiving their monthly pension who are calling for a longer shutdown. For those of us who work for a living, or those of us who are self employed without massive savings, this thing is killing us. 

Why cant America the great and wealthy nation provide substantial income support to its people like less wealthy nations such as Australia and the UK ? How utterly embarrassing it is to see everyday Americans queuing by the thousands and thousands just to get food.

The fact the same is happening in Thailand is understandable but in America ? just makes me gobsmacked. 

[metisdead]

A post using video from an unapproved YouTube source has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube  etc.) should always be shown.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, if it provides you with any consolation, I consider nearly all US doctors to be shrills for big pharma. Let me ask you one question. When was the last time you visited a doctor in the US, who DID NOT write a prescription? Nothing to do with a conspiracy theory. I am NOT a Trump supporter, on any level. It is just that I discredit the US health care system, to a tremendous degree. And I despise the CDC, and the FDA. Fauci is doing his best (likely with the encouragement of Big Pharma) to discourage trying any medicines which have not undergone a clinical study (like generics, which are far less profitable, and again, with the involvement of the FDA, which oversees these tests), even if it means letting people die. He has very, very little of my respect, and none of my admiration. And I do not consider him a saint. 

 

And the US will not be putting any effort into decreasing that gap between the rich and the poor. It is moving precisely in the opposite direction, and has been since Reagan. 

 

generics HAVE undergone clinical studies.  generics are simply the non-brand name versions of the famous drugs. 

 

remdesivir is undergoing trials as a treatment for covid.  if/when approved it can be under the remdesivir brand name, or gs-5734, or whatever generic name is applied to it.

 

there is a chinese pharmaceutical maker in suzhou (brightgene) that already has a generic version, and is ready with a production line, only waiting for approval and license from gilead to begin.

 

 

[mikebike]

2 hours ago, White Christmas13 said:

They should rename the country to "The divided states of America"

You, and the poster you replied to are totally falling for the game. They are most definitely NOT diametrically opposed in policy. They both serve the real power, wall street and corporations. They want you to believe they are opposite, while in reality they only differ in social policy not in their economic policy which has left the American working class in the 70s.

Edited May 13, 2020 by mikebike

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

Just a note in passing concerning the US of A,  I wonder if there is another country in the world that has become so partisan with two political parties that are constantly opposing in totally bad faith concerning 100% of what the other party said, intelligent or stupid true or false everything that the opposing party says will be denigrated and ridiculed by the members of the other one!  It makes me sad for this country which was so and that I admired for a long time but that I no longer admire because I have the impression that politically it has become stupid (sorry) I find it sad and I hope that it will be able to change sooner than later! 

Just my two cents worth for a starting point...

 

First step get trump and his sycophants out of power in 11/20, they're way too destructive of institutions and respect within society.  Rebuild the republican party, address gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement. Amend the Constitution to reflect a direct election by popular vote which I understand would increase overall voter turn out, rather than swing state focus created by the Electoral College process. Implement a strong legislative regime with sufficient resources to take on political corruption.

 

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Yes, that would explain the anti protest violence and arrests on Sunday in Melbourne, Sydney and outside parliament in Victoria...because Australia is a nation united across political lines...because nothing says unity like protests, arrests and violence!!!! 

Different to all the nonsense in the US. Protester numbers were small, no Dxxxxxxxs standing around with weapons etc. Always a fringe element. Morrison is doing a reasonable job so far with a documented three stage mitigation relaxation process so everyone knows what to expect.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

Still playing the shrill for big pharma card. I used to consider you an intelligent poster. Your countless posts about Covid have shown me I was wrong.

If my skin was not thicker than that of an alligator I might be slightly offended, but since it is, I am not. Wow. Thinking outside the box of convention on Covid makes me not smart. Oh my. What am I gonna do? I should have been more of an obedient subject, and followed the "experts"!

Edited May 13, 2020 by spidermike007

[Odysseus123]

Ah..so they are attacking Dr Fauci now?

 

Well, that's predictable...

Edited May 13, 2020 by Odysseus123

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, RANGER55 said:

You are right, all these people sitting at home on their FAT A-- drawing a retirement /work check find it easy to say, less stay locked down till when? If you are one of these people fine, stay in your basement drawing your money and you will not get the virus. Fauci is a 40-year bureaucrat that has been right about nothing, just watched him in an interview on TV (of many) Jan. 21 saying. The virus is nothing to worry about, go on with your lives. He made the stupid statement, we can/may never shake hands again. Then turns around and says, on its OK to have sex with a stranger you met on the internet.

 

Here is a prediction from an economist think tank just today. If we stay locked down another several weeks 40% of jobs lost will never come back.

 

All these supposedly experts have been wrong on every prediction they have made from the beginning. But we are supposed to let an unelected bureaucrat decide the entire fate of the US economy?

 

As for number of deaths in the US per % of 100,000 people. The US is down below a lot of other countries, which are starting to open up also.

The mind set of all these people (politicians, news media) is NY, NY, NY. Well a lot of people are tired of hearing about NY and what’s best for the rest of the country base on NY.

 

Someone suggested we stop all pay to every elected official all the way down to the mayors and city councils till we get the economy open and running again. That would solved is problem fast fast.

Great points. I agree with stopping all pay and benefits to all government officials and employees worldwide. Including Thailand. Man oh man. Would they change their tunes overnight, or what? 
 

Easy to be brave from a distance. Easy to say let's extend this thing when you are getting paid!

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Swimfan said:

Why cant America the great and wealthy nation provide substantial income support to its people like less wealthy nations such as Australia and the UK ? How utterly embarrassing it is to see everyday Americans queuing by the thousands and thousands just to get food.

The fact the same is happening in Thailand is understandable but in America ? just makes me gobsmacked. 

For the world at large, looking at America right now, they appear to be the most pitiful and utterly hapless and incompetent nation on earth. Make America great again? How about make America moderately competent?

[Mikeasq60]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

For the world at large, looking at America right now, they appear to be the most pitiful and utterly hapless and incompetent nation on earth. Make America great again? How about make America moderately competent?

I want to compare and contrast what all seeing all knowing country your from and we'll take it from their!

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, Mikeasq60 said:

I want to compare and contrast what all seeing all knowing country your from and we'll take it from their!

I am from the US. 

[Traubert]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

For the world at large, looking at America right now, they appear to be the most pitiful and utterly hapless and incompetent nation on earth. Make America great again? How about make America moderately competent?

It certainly seems that way. (Coming from a Brit.)

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, RANGER55 said:

You are right, all these people sitting at home on their FAT A-- drawing a retirement /work check find it easy to say, less stay locked down till when? If you are one of these people fine, stay in your basement drawing your money and you will not get the virus. Fauci is a 40-year bureaucrat that has been right about nothing, just watched him in an interview on TV (of many) Jan. 21 saying. The virus is nothing to worry about, go on with your lives. He made the stupid statement, we can/may never shake hands again. Then turns around and says, on its OK to have sex with a stranger you met on the internet.

 

Here is a prediction from an economist think tank just today. If we stay locked down another several weeks 40% of jobs lost will never come back.

 

All these supposedly experts have been wrong on every prediction they have made from the beginning. But we are supposed to let an unelected bureaucrat decide the entire fate of the US economy?

 

As for number of deaths in the US per % of 100,000 people. The US is down below a lot of other countries, which are starting to open up also.

The mind set of all these people (politicians, news media) is NY, NY, NY. Well a lot of people are tired of hearing about NY and what’s best for the rest of the country base on NY.

 

Someone suggested we stop all pay to every elected official all the way down to the mayors and city councils till we get the economy open and running again. That would solved is problem fast fast.

Perhaps you're long removed from any Civics course you might have taken, so let me give you a polite reminder that the Chief of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases was not given any Article 1 powers by the Founders, nor has any subsequent Congress in 244 years bestowed on such a person the degree of power he would need to shut the country down. Thus, Dr Fauci only deals in facts, not orders. Like anyone, he is entitled to state an opinion, but no one need follow it.

 

Also, the Founders allowed the States to retain a lot of powers, so each Governor has the legal right to decide what emergency actions might be taken within the borders of his or her State. In case you have forgotten---as I see you used the term "unelected"---Governors are elected by the citizens of their State.

 

Yes, the US is running behind Belgium, the UK, Spain and Italy, inter alia in CV-19 deaths per capita, but the US still is in the top 10 of the 187 countries, on a per capita death basis, where CV-19 has been found. The record is not----what's the word----good. The US was ill-prepared, and the Administration wasted valuable time not acting when the warnings were first given to him by various members of his govt. The US was also greatly hampered by the fact that the existing Pandemic Response Team created under President Obama had been disbanded by 45, and the Pandemic Response Manuals Obama' people produced were never accessed. The manuals outlined procedures, required equipment, and noted that under the NDA a POTUS can order manufacturing facilities to produce needed items, such as PPE or ventilators. This could have been done as early as January.  Instead, absolutely nothing was done for months, and statements contrary to reality were issued daily out of the WH.

 

Finally, some 80% of Americans polled do not want to return to work and a normal routine until there is more comprehensive testing and contact tracing. They want the same degree of protection 45 has mandated for his own place of work. Actually, people are asking for something less than 45 has mandated, as he demands all West Wing and White House staff be tested every day.

 

The US, up to now, and nearing 5 months since 45 knew the virus was coming, has tested only 9.6 million citizens. Since you seem to like 'per 100,000', that is way below the rate of testing in most countries. 45 claimed he could do 5 million tests a day. That seems at odds with the reality of a mere 9.6 million over several months.

[Mikeasq60]

21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I am from the US. 

Im from the US whats the point of your comment?

[Mikeasq60]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Perhaps you're long removed from any Civics course you might have taken, so let me give you a polite reminder that the Chief of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases was not given any Article 1 powers by the Founders, nor has any subsequent Congress in 244 years bestowed on such a person the degree of power he would need to shut the country down. Thus, Dr Fauci only deals in facts, not orders. Like anyone, he is entitled to state an opinion, but no one need follow it.

 

Also, the Founders allowed the States to retain a lot of powers, so each Governor has the legal right to decide what emergency actions might be taken within the borders of his or her State. In case you have forgotten---as I see you used the term "unelected"---Governors are elected by the citizens of their State.

 

Yes, the US is running behind Belgium, the UK, Spain and Italy, inter alia in CV-19 deaths per capita, but the US still is in the top 10 of the 187 countries, on a per capita death basis, where CV-19 has been found. The record is not----what's the word----good. The US was ill-prepared, and the Administration wasted valuable time not acting when the warnings were first given to him by various members of his govt. The US was also greatly hampered by the fact that the existing Pandemic Response Team created under President Obama had been disbanded by 45, and the Pandemic Response Manuals Obama' people produced were never accessed. The manuals outlined procedures, required equipment, and noted that under the NDA a POTUS can order manufacturing facilities to produce needed items, such as PPE or ventilators. This could have been done as early as January.  Instead, absolutely nothing was done for months, and statements contrary to reality were issued daily out of the WH.

 

Finally, some 80% of Americans polled do not want to return to work and a normal routine until there is more comprehensive testing and contact tracing. They want the same degree of protection 45 has mandated for his own place of work. Actually, people are asking for something less than 45 has mandated, as he demands all West Wing and White House staff be tested every day.

 

The US, up to now, and nearing 5 months since 45 knew the virus was coming, has tested only 9.6 million citizens. Since you seem to like 'per 100,000', that is way below the rate of testing in most countries. 45 claimed he could do 5 million tests a day. That seems at odds with the reality of a mere 9.6 million over several months.

80% not want to return to work what Bruwhahahahahaha, where on earth are you getting your numbers from?

[muzley]

6 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Nancy took her cue from what Trump said from January.

Jan 22 - we have a plan and will be handled very well. We have things under control

Jan 24 - China working very hard to contain the virus. It will work out well

Feb 7 - with warmer weather, virus becomes weaker and then gone

Feb 10 - I had long talk with Xi and he feels very confident. By April, the heat, kills this kind of virus.

Feb 23 - situation is very much under control

Nancy and other Dems such as Bill Di Blasio, Cuomo were all downplaying the virus. Trump blocked travel from China on Jan 31 to the left and MSM howls of "Xenophobia", "Racism" and here are these idiots encouraging people out into the streets!!! Even the Democrat health commissioner of NY was out on Feb 10 inviting people to a party to stand strong with Wuhan!!! Thank god Trump is in charge or the death toll would be many times higher.

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, muzley said:

Nancy and other Dems such as Bill Di Blasio, Cuomo were all downplaying the virus. Trump blocked travel from China on Jan 31 to the left and MSM howls of "Xenophobia", "Racism" and here are these idiots encouraging people out into the streets!!! Even the Democrat health commissioner of NY was out on Feb 10 inviting people to a party to stand strong with Wuhan!!! Thank god Trump is in charge or the death toll would be many times higher.

That is a very low bar you set up for Trump when the infections and deaths in US are highest by a wide margin with the rest of the world. Even the testing is way off some of the developed countries averages. 

[Lacessit]

One aspect which seems to be overlooked, and is probably why Fauci is concerned, is the recovery rate.

While the death rate is horrific, the USA still has over 1 million active cases of COVID-19. Australia has 611. Serious/critical over 16,000, Australia 17. It's like watching a train wreck.