Non O Savvanahket

[Okis]

47 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I think you miss the point of my post. There are many thousands of foreigners for whom Thailand is home. Every one of them needs a visa/permission to stay which is time limited (unlike many other countries where if you are married to a local it is comparitively easy to get permanent residency). The Thai government has said that an extension of stay has been granted to those foreigners until 31st July with no action by the alien needed.

The Nation has put forward the idea that most foreigners will not be allowed to enter Thailand until the end of 2020. They gave no source for that information, but there are strict laws in Thailand for publishing fake statements (unless it is from government officials ???? ) so I assume there must be some substance to what they wrote.

If foreigners are not allowed to enter Thailand until then, then no-one will be able to do border runs or go overseas to renew their visa as they would not be allowed ro re-enter Thailand this year. It follows, therefore, that the current automatic extension to stay must be extended beyond 31st July, perhaps in stages.

And all of that has nothing at all to do with what you wrote about foreigners being free to fly back to their own country.

They don't care if you can't do a visarun.  You are basing things purely on what you would like to see happen. 

That is a mistake and will just make you even more dissapointed when you realise they don't follow your will. 

 

At most they will find a solution for some people with family in Thailand, but most likely not even that. 

 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

43 minutes ago, Okis said:

They don't care if you can't do a visarun.  You are basing things purely on what you would like to see happen. 

That is a mistake and will just make you even more dissapointed when you realise they don't follow your will. 

 

At most they will find a solution for some people with family in Thailand, but most likely not even that. 

 

 

 

You're talking nonsense. They already have found a solution up to 31st July (foreigners need do nothing). And if you think they will make people leave the country to get a visa or do a border run and then not let them back in then I'll be polite and just say that I think you are mistaken. Do you really think they would do that? Really?

 

As for finding a solution for 'some people with family in Thailand' but not others such as retirees or business people, again I'll be polite and simply say that I disagree.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Okis said:

They don't care if you can't do a visarun.  ...

More accurate to say, Immigration Will Be DELIGHTED if farangs cannot do visaruns.

 

3 hours ago, Okis said:

You are basing things purely on what you would like to see happen. 

That is a mistake and will just make you even more dissapointed when you realise they don't follow your will. 

 

At most they will find a solution for some people with family in Thailand, but most likely not even that.

Immigration make annual renewals Extra-Difficult for those with Thai families - by no means a "favored" group.  Retirement is much easier, with agent-service to skip the financials available at less than 1/2 the price of Thai-family-based. 

 

Unless the cabinet orders Immigration to make allowances for those with Thai families, they won't. 

 

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You're talking nonsense. They already have found a solution up to 31st July (foreigners need do nothing). And if you think they will make people leave the country to get a visa or do a border run and then not let them back in then I'll be polite and just say that I think you are mistaken. Do you really think they would do that? Really?

The Cabinet force-fed Immigration that "solution up to 31st July," after Immigration made a mockery of the previous covid-extension system - landlord must come, landlord-docs, "under consideration," so you had to go twice, etc.

 

I will not make predictions about what happens on July 31st, but I would not count on any "help" from immigration on facilitation of the visa-runs they actively-hate.  They could not care less if your Thai family loses their means of support - would be high-fives all-around, and a cause for celebration, in some offices.

[jacko45k]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I will not make predictions about what happens on July 31st, but I would not count on any "help" from immigration on facilitation of the visa-runs they actively-hate. 

Let us assume it is accompanied by opening of the borders and airports to an extent. I am inclined to expect another 1 month free extension will be given, but include a warning it will be the last, and time to get back to normal situation or leave Thailand.

[Okis]

3 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You're talking nonsense. They already have found a solution up to 31st July (foreigners need do nothing). And if you think they will make people leave the country to get a visa or do a border run and then not let them back in then I'll be polite and just say that I think you are mistaken. Do you really think they would do that? Really?

 

As for finding a solution for 'some people with family in Thailand' but not others such as retirees or business people, again I'll be polite and simply say that I disagree.

The reason for them having a amnesty is because you can't get a regular flight out of Thailand. The only flights for civilians leaving Thailand is a few evac flights arranged by a few countries governments. 

 

When they open the borders for people to leave and you can't do a border run they will tell you to get a extension based on retirement, marriage or being a parent. 

 

Europe, US and some ME countries will probally be the last places that will be allowed to enter Thailand again. 

 

It's a problem for me too. But better to be realistic and prepared so you can do something about it than thinking that ones wishes will change the Thai goverment. Because if you don't take any action and prepare then you will stand there with no other options when the amnesty is lifted. 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They could not care less if your Thai family loses their means of support - would be high-fives all-around, and a cause for celebration, in some offices.

Can you give us evidence, anything at all, that supports what you claim?

[Bangkok Barry]

6 minutes ago, Okis said:

The reason for them having a amnesty is because you can't get a regular flight out of Thailand. The only flights for civilians leaving Thailand is a few evac flights arranged by some countries governments. 

 

When they open the borders for people to leave and you can't do a border run is that they will tell you to get a extension based on retirement, marriage or being a parent. 

 

 

You still don't get it. The problem is people entering the country, not leaving. Leaving to get a visa or on a border run will become easier. The talk is of not being able to get back into Thailand. Go to Laos or anywhere else, get the visa and then be barred as a foreigner from re-entering until year's end.

And why do you think that only now, after 31st July and not before, they would demand you get an extension? Why do you think they will change their stance? So far, after the packed immigration offices fiasco, they have done more than enough to placate people. Few would have expected an amnesty right through until the end of July.

[lopburi3]

9 minutes ago, Okis said:

The reason for them having a amnesty is because you can't get a regular flight out of Thailand. The only flights for civilians leaving Thailand is a few evac flights arranged by some countries governments. 

That is not true - there are still a handful of scheduled flights out of Bangkok for those wanting to leave.  They arrive empty of pax due to current closure of incoming for anything but evac Thai pax.  Those wanting to leave for most countries can do so.

[RichCor]

13 minutes ago, Okis said:

The reason for them having a amnesty is because you can't get a regular flight out of Thailand. The only flights for civilians leaving Thailand is a few evac flights arranged by some countries governments. 

According to this email I just received from the US State Department, Health Alert: U.S. Embassy Bangkok, Thailand (May 15, 2020), your statement isn't exactly true. There's still limited service for outgoing flights.

 

 

Q. Are there still flights out of Thailand even though there is a ban on incoming international flights?

A. The following airlines are currently offering outbound flights from Bangkok with connections to the United States: Korean Air, Qatar Airways, Ethiopian Airlines, Japan Airlines, Air Asiana, and Lufthansa. Japan Airlines announced further reductions in service from Bangkok to Tokyo effective immediately. All Nippon Airways (ANA) offers flights from Bangkok to Tokyo, but connecting flights to the United States requires you to change airports in Japan, which is not allowed under Japan's current travel restrictions. There are currently no international flights departing from Chiang Mai International Airport or Phuket International Airport. U.S. citizens should also consider the need to travel from their current location in Thailand to Bangkok to catch an international flight.

 

The few remaining flight routes are subject to cancellation without notice, and many flights are heavily booked. For verified information about the COVID-19 situation in other countries, please visit: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/COVID-19-Country-Specific-Information.html.

[Okis]

48 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

More accurate to say, Immigration Will Be DELIGHTED if farangs cannot do visaruns.

 

Immigration make annual renewals Extra-Difficult for those with Thai families - by no means a "favored" group.  Retirement is much easier, with agent-service to skip the financials available at less than 1/2 the price of Thai-family-based. 

 

Unless the cabinet orders Immigration to make allowances for those with Thai families, they won't. 

 

The Cabinet force-fed Immigration that "solution up to 31st July," after Immigration made a mockery of the previous covid-extension system - landlord must come, landlord-docs, "under consideration," so you had to go twice, etc.

 

I will not make predictions about what happens on July 31st, but I would not count on any "help" from immigration on facilitation of the visa-runs they actively-hate.  They could not care less if your Thai family loses their means of support - would be high-fives all-around, and a cause for celebration, in some offices.

I fully agree.  We need to be realistic, and most of us know how the goverment here works. 

 

I'm currently trying scramble my resources to do the extension in one month. Really bad timing because we just finished off building our house when the pandemic became a real issue. 

 

But there is no other choice because if i have to leave in July then i most likely won't be able to come back for a long because my home country have no real measures in place and thinks it will get herd immunity by getting 50%+ of the population infected. 

[Okis]

13 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You still don't get it. The problem is people entering the country, not leaving. Leaving to get a visa or on a border run will become easier. The talk is of not being able to get back into Thailand. Go to Laos or anywhere else, get the visa and then be barred as a foreigner from re-entering until year's end.

And why do you think that only now, after 31st July and not before, they would demand you get an extension? Why do you think they will change their stance? So far, after the packed immigration offices fiasco, they have done more than enough to placate people. Few would have expected an amnesty right through until the end of July.

You can hope for whatever you like. But please be prepared in some way. Alot of people will end up standing there without options because they were overly optimistic and didn't have a backup plan. 

 

[MagnumForce]

5 minutes ago, Okis said:

50 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

More accurate to say, Immigration Will Be DELIGHTED if farangs cannot do visaruns.

 

Immigration make annual renewals Extra-Difficult for those with Thai families - by no means a "favored" group.  Retirement is much easier, with agent-service to skip the financials available at less than 1/2 the price of Thai-family-based. 

 

Unless the cabinet orders Immigration to make allowances for those with Thai families, they won't. 

 

The Cabinet force-fed Immigration that "solution up to 31st July," after Immigration made a mockery of the previous covid-extension system - landlord must come, landlord-docs, "under consideration," so you had to go twice, etc.

 

I will not make predictions about what happens on July 31st, but I would not count on any "help" from immigration on facilitation of the visa-runs they actively-hate.  They could not care less if your Thai family loses their means of support - would be high-fives all-around, and a cause for celebration, in some offices.

I fully agree.  We need to be realistic, and most of us know how the goverment here works. 

 

I'm currently trying scramble my resources to do the extension in one month. Really bad timing because we just finished off building our house when the pandemic became a real issue. 

 

But there is no other choice because if i have to leave in July then i most likely won't be able to come back for a long because my home countries have no real measures in place and thinks it will get herd immunity by getting 50%+ of the population infected. 

I am inclined to agree with both of you.

 

My experience yesterday was with an IO who openly stated that the "unofficial" fee for switching to a Non-Imm 'O' visa (initial 90 days visa, not extension of stay) based on marriage in-country is 16,000THB. This is even before my documents and papers were checked and reviewed. Seems like they are not even playing the game of putting "honest" applicants through hell asking for this and that. They've just cut straight to the chase. 16,000THB for a Non-Imm 'O' visa (initial 90 days visa, not extension of stay) based on marriage in-country, if you are trying to switch over to it from another permission to stay. The implication is obviously that by not playing ball and insisting on lodging your application as is, it will not be successful.

 

How does one get around such blatant corruption? Do I just hold my tongue and pay up? Can I use another Immigration Office? Can I use Immigration Head Office in Bangkok?

 

This is why I wanted to get my Non-Imm 'O' Multi-Entry in Laos, to avoid these criminals in uniform. I am now faced with paying up or gambling on the Thai Consulates in Laos opening soon with no changes to the way they conducted their business pre-Covid 19, and, also, gambling on being allowed out to Laos for the purposes of securing said visa and then being allowed back into Thailand without hassle. A rock and a hard place.

 

Having said that, I do hope Bangkok Barry is right. 

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Can you give us evidence, anything at all, that supports what you claim?

My personal experience, and those of many others, as reported on this forum.  The attitudes / treatment of our Thai wives by Immigration-staff is clear as day.  Then add the "undocumented requirement" hurdles, piled on one after the other. 

 

And before someone says it, no, neither my wife or I have tattoos, or such - nor have we ever been rude to IOs, to spite their rudeness to us.  I curse, and wife cries, after we leave the office w/o an extension, again - the IOs cruel remarks ringing in our heads.

[Bangkok Barry]

18 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

My personal experience, and those of many others, as reported on this forum.  The attitudes / treatment of our Thai wives by Immigration-staff is clear as day.  Then add the "undocumented requirement" hurdles, piled on one after the other. 

 

And before someone says it, no, neither my wife or I have tattoos, or such - nor have we ever been rude to IOs, to spite their rudeness to us.  I curse, and wife cries, after we leave the office w/o an extension, again - the IOs cruel remarks ringing in our heads.

The government decides how long we may stay in the country during the pandemic. Treatment by IOs is another subject altogether, and not related to whether our permission to stay will be extended until foreigners are once again allowed to enter Thailand..

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

The government decides how long we may stay in the country during the pandemic. Treatment by IOs is another subject altogether, and not related to whether our permission to stay will be extended until foreigners are once again allowed to enter Thailand..

The claim, which you asked me to substantiate, is whether immigration would be delighted if we could not use visas to stay here any more.  What I related, is why I am certain immigration (many offices / divisions) would be very happy, if we could not. 

Fortunately, the MFA has the final say on the visas being issued, and the cabiniet on the borders opening. 

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My personal experience, and those of many others, as reported on this forum.  The attitudes / treatment of our Thai wives by Immigration-staff is clear as day.  Then add the "undocumented requirement" hurdles, piled on one after the other. 

 

And before someone says it, no, neither my wife or I have tattoos, or such - nor have we ever been rude to IOs, to spite their rudeness to us.  I curse, and wife cries, after we leave the office w/o an extension, again - the IOs cruel remarks ringing in our heads.

Haha ........ my wife (former) threw a screaming ranting bar girl full loss of control fit in Chiang Mai immigration when doing my marriage extension once. The IOs all cowered in fear and the guy in charge came out from the back and did it personally in the fastest time ever. Nothing like a bit of fear to get them moving.

[Bangkok Barry]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The claim, which you asked me to substantiate, is whether immigration would be delighted if we could not use visas to stay here any more.  What I related, is why I am certain immigration (many offices / divisions) would be very happy, if we could not. 

Fortunately, the MFA has the final say on the visas being issued, and the cabiniet on the borders opening. 

Okay. But their delight is irrelevant. We are talking of two different things. I wrote that we are likely, if indeed foreigners are barred from Thailand until the end of the year, to have our permission to stay extended until then. Probably in stages. You then wrote about how immigration officers can be, shall we say, a little unhelpful. Not really relevant to what I wrote, as it wouldn't be up to them if we could stay or not.

 

Any person in any division, once they don a uniform feel they then have the right to be as obstructive as possible. And that is because they have the power to compensate for themselves having to bow down to authority, those deemed their 'betters'. That runs throughout the whole of Thai society and is why, now and then, Thais explode into extraordinary violence. They take it for so long and then something, a final straw, sets them off.

 

I've had no problems with IOs, except one who wanted to charge my wife the maximum 2000 baht for being one day late reporting that I had returned home to the address I had already given when I re-entered the country, and he then accepted a 'donation' of 500 baht instead. But I have had trouble with the local office when I wanted a form signed confirming who I was and the uniform spent 10 minutes making up excuses why she wouldn't do it (as no 'incentive' was offered), and again when I thought it might be nice to have a pink card and so many obstacles were made up that I decided not to bother.

 

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Haha ........ my wife (former) threw a screaming ranting bar girl full loss of control fit in Chiang Mai immigration when doing my marriage extension once. The IOs all cowered in fear and the guy in charge came out from the back and did it personally in the fastest time ever. Nothing like a bit of fear to get them moving.

Might be handy at immigration.  Not sure about the home-maker part, though.

[elektrified]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:46 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

I think you miss the point of my post. There are many thousands of foreigners for whom Thailand is home. Every one of them needs a visa/permission to stay which is time limited (unlike many other countries where if you are married to a local it is comparitively easy to get permanent residency). The Thai government has said that an extension of stay has been granted to those foreigners until 31st July with no action by the alien needed.

Could you confirm please.....my Non-Immigrant O-A visa/extension based on retirement expires on 10 July 2020. I will not be able to extend it this year and had planned on going to Laos or Vietnam to get a Family Visa in early July. Obviously the borders are closed and that presents a problem. I had a back-up plan to just go to Immigration on the 9th or 10th of July to get a 60-day visa to visit family to hold me over until hopefully the borders have re-opened and I can go to an Embassy in a neighboring country. Are you saying that I would not need to go to Immigration until 31 July because there is an "automatic extension" in place?

 

Thanks for your help.

[BritManToo]

Just now, elektrified said:

Are you saying that I would not need to go to Immigration until 31 July because there is an "automatic extension" in place?

Yes.

Although some immigration offices are reported to refuse any extension of the 'free pass'.

And you can bet your boots Chiang Mai immigration will be as difficult as they possibly can.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, elektrified said:

Could you confirm please.....my Non-Immigrant O-A visa/extension based on retirement expires on 10 July 2020.

You have already been given advice about it in another topic.

You change the reason for your extension to one based upon marriage to a Thai.

[Eibot]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:21 PM, Okis said:

The reason for them having a amnesty is because you can't get a regular flight out of Thailand.

Flights to go out of Thailand obviously never stopped. When the amnesty finishes, the borders will be open. Two ways. 

 

 

 

[Eibot]

17 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I wrote that we are likely, if indeed foreigners are barred from Thailand until the end of the year

Italy is accepting tourist by the beginning of next month (June). TAT is already beginning to prepare for tourists. Hotels in my area are opening up as if today.

 

It's nothing less if delusional to think that there won't be any tourist/foreigners here. 

[Bangkok Barry]

7 minutes ago, Eibot said:

Italy is accepting tourist by the beginning of next month (June). TAT is already beginning to prepare for tourists. Hotels in my area are opening up as if today.

 

It's nothing less if delusional to think that there won't be any tourist/foreigners here. 

I really don't care if tourists come here or not. But at the moment there are no plans to allow foreigners back into Thailand, and The Nation stated - with no source quoted - that they would not be allowed in from most countries until the end of the year. An exception, surprise surprise, is China. Also, bear in mind that many foreigners will not now have the spare cash to fly halfway around the world when they can holiday at home for a fraction of the cost. In my native UK I expect a renaissance of the seaside b&bs to occur, which isn't such a bad thing.

The hotels that are opening up in your area are targeting those already in Thailand, mostly Thais as, again, no foreigners are allowed into the country. What Italy or anywhere else is doing is of absolutely no relevance to Thailand.

[hotandsticky]

10 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I really don't care if tourists come here or not. But at the moment there are no plans to allow foreigners back into Thailand, and The Nation stated - with no source quoted - that they would not be allowed in from most countries until the end of the year. An exception, surprise surprise, is China. Also, bear in mind that many foreigners will not now have the spare cash to fly halfway around the world when they can holiday at home for a fraction of the cost. In my native UK I expect a renaissance of the seaside b&bs to occur, which isn't such a bad thing.

The hotels that are opening up in your area are targeting those already in Thailand, mostly Thais as, again, no foreigners are allowed into the country. What Italy or anywhere else is doing is of absolutely no relevance to Thailand.

 

 

You obviously haven't stayed in a UK seaside B & B recently.

 

 

You can have a month in many places in Thailand for the price of 3 nights B & B. 

[Eibot]

19 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I really don't care if tourists come here or not. But at the moment there are no plans to allow foreigners back into Thailand, and The Nation stated - with no source quoted - that they would not be allowed in from most countries until the end of the year. An exception, surprise surprise, is China. Also, bear in mind that many foreigners will not now have the spare cash to fly halfway around the world when they can holiday at home for a fraction of the cost. In my native UK I expect a renaissance of the seaside b&bs to occur, which isn't such a bad thing.

The hotels that are opening up in your area are targeting those already in Thailand, mostly Thais as, again, no foreigners are allowed into the country. What Italy or anywhere else is doing is of absolutely no relevance to Thailand.

I tend to follow logic than unsourced news. Italy was the worst hit country 8 weeks ago. 10 weeks later it allows tourist.

 

-Thailand depends greatly on tourist.

-Thailand values money over many other things

-Thailand cannot financially support businesses in the tourist industry.

-Thailand never had a big Covid19 outbreak and is considered managing the situation well and seen as a safe haven.

 

Thailand Will open up this summer. It has no choice.

[Bangkok Barry]

8 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

You obviously haven't stayed in a UK seaside B & B recently.

 

 

You can have a month in many places in Thailand for the price of 3 nights B & B. 

Let's look at that. If we say that a seaside b&b is 100 a night, and most are not, that's 300 pounds and 12,000 baht (I've rounded up the baht). Spending a month, 30 days, with 12,000 baht is 400 a night. I don't think I'd want to stay in a place that costs 400 a night, but I suppose there are those who would, and do. I wouldn't expect much for that money.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Bangkok Barry said:

Let's look at that. If we say that a seaside b&b is 100 a night, and most are not, that's 300 pounds and 12,000 baht (I've rounded up the baht). Spending a month, 30 days, with 12,000 baht is 400 a night. I don't think I'd want to stay in a place that costs 400 a night, but I suppose there are those who would, and do. I wouldn't expect much for that money.

You forgot ............. 14 days on nightly usually costs same as 1 month.

So your 400bht/night place would charge 6,000bht/month  in Thailand.

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Let's look at that. If we say that a seaside b&b is 100 a night, and most are not, that's 300 pounds and 12,000 baht (I've rounded up the baht). Spending a month, 30 days, with 12,000 baht is 400 a night. I don't think I'd want to stay in a place that costs 400 a night, but I suppose there are those who would, and do. I wouldn't expect much for that money.

 

 

As I thought................... you are way out.

 

 

I was calculating GBP 225 for decent 1 month accommodation in Thailand, say, 9,000 Baht (perfectly adequate available for less).

 

No half decent guest house is going to be under GBP 75 - and most a lot more...... unless you want to stay in Jaywick !!

[Bangkok Barry]

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You forgot ............. 14 days on nightly usually costs same as 1 month.

So your 400bht/night place would charge 6,000bht/month  in Thailand.

I'll take your word for it. I didn't know there's a 50% discount for a month's stay.