Trump says he doesn't want to talk to Xi right now, could even cut China ties

[TopDeadSenter]

 

 

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

To me, it's perfectly sensible and logical that any right (meaning correct)-thinking country ought to make its economic security and supply chain investments in other countries that are "friends" as opposed to "adversaries" like China.

 

There was a time when perhaps the world hoped that China economic freedoms would expand into political and social freedoms. But I think those dreams and aspirations pretty much died in Tiananmen Square.

 

It's just unfortunate it had to take a worldwide coronavirus pandemic and all these years later for the U.S. to wake up to the reality of China's adversarial role in the world and in terms of economic and military power. Until the CV came along, Trump wanted new trade deals with China, not decoupling.

 

This is old fashioned thinking. Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost.

 

 Which is why Trump is having difficulty reining in China. The opposition, by hobbling Trump 24/7 365 days a year are strengthening the Chinese hand. This is a real tragedy. After all, were it not for politics of hate and divisiveness coming from team Dem, all Americans would benefit from beneficial trade deals with China, and if necessary bringing back some important industries.

 

Well, best of luck to Trump. I liken his efforts to a sprinter trying to dash the 100m yet his opponents tied sandbags to his feet, and are now laughing at his slowness. Sad. Very sad.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When a pandemic comes along, and the U.S. doesn't have enough domestic or otherwise reliable supply chain capacity to supply enough N95 respirator masks for its front-line first responders, much less the citizenry of the country, that's a pretty good sign that your economic and health security has gone wrong.

 

The U.S. didn't have enough supply of masks at the beginning of the outbreak, and now several months later, it still doesn't have enough supply of masks for essential personnel, much less the population of the country. Instead, the U.S. had to go begging to other countries.

 

And in the process, ended up getting moldy and substandard/counterfeit masks sent from China and imported ventilators that didn't work properly. 

 

That's economic and health security gone wrong.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Which is why Trump is having difficulty reining in China. The opposition, by hobbling Trump 24/7 365 days a year are strengthening the Chinese hand.

 

Apparently we actually agree on the role of China in the world, despite being polar opposites on U.S. politics. But at least we can find common ground on that...

 

It's disheartening, though, to then find you reverting to your delusional partisan rantings on how Trump would have saved the world and the U.S. from China if its wasn't for Democrats and liberals... Time to take your medicine again, I think.

 

Republicans and Democrat politicians alike have wanted free and expanded trade with China because there's money to be made and China became a source of relatively cheap imports for consumer consumption, which was good for U.S. companies like Apple, etc... China was good for big business, and Republican politicians are all-in on big business. Democrats, meanwhile, called it "constructive engagement," I believe.

 

Now, the U.S. is paying a price for that mistaken, shortsighted policy. Not to mention losing a lot of its domestic manufacturing base and a lot of the U.S. middle class along the way.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What did your tool cost? 100USD or maybe 200USD? I also like quality and pay for quality.

IIRC it was about 230 Euro, only one distributor and had to be ordered. Victorinox at the time was about 120 I think. 

 

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But China has lots of quality products. I bought a mobile phone from China maybe 2 years ago now. It's great, it cost about 6000THB. Now look how much American phones, made mostly in China, cost now. And how much would they cost if they would be made entirely in the USA. 

I was actually involved in setting up an electronics production line back in Finland in the 90's, the next line was churning out Nokia Communicators. That company was later bought out by Foxconn and shuttered only a few months after. The products made in Finland were IMHO superior and production costs about the same. Chinese wanted to simply close it up. Same story in many places I suppose, the whip & belt strategy in full swing. And the west let it happen.

Edited May 16, 2020 by DrTuner

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That's economic and health security gone wrong.

US dependence on foreign masks has been a national security issue for years.

 

Quote

 

US medical mask maker blasts government for failing to prepare for pandemic: 'I've been ignored for so long'

 

(CNN)An executive for a US mask producer bemoaned, in heated and emotional testimony Thursday to Congress, how his warnings of insufficient domestic medical mask production had been ignored by the federal government for years until the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Speaking before the House Energy and Commerce Committee, Mike Bowen, the vice president of the Texas-based medical supply company Prestige Ameritech, said the US dependence on foreign masks has been a national security issue for years.

 

Bowen described conversations over the past 13 years in which he had offered manufacturing deals to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that included "mak(ing) sure that the Department of Defense and the Veterans Administration always has masks," adding that "I couldn't get anybody interested in it."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/14/politics/bowen-mask-maker-ignored-bright-hearing/index.html

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Heppinger]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Not so sure about your notion on that front.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army

 

 

  Quote

The PLA is the world's largest military force and constitutes the second largest defence budget in the world. The PLA is one of the fastest modernising militaries in the world and has been termed as a potential military superpower, with significant regional power and rising global power projection capabilities.^{[7][8][1][9][10][11][12]} As per Credit Suisse in 2015, the PLA is the world's third-most powerful military.^[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army

 

Credit Suisse base their findings using asset valuations.  All advancement in military innovation and tech comes out of the US.  China can build all the destroyers and combat air craft it likes, they will still be full of US/Israeli developed and coded chip technology.

China doesn't need a high tech military apart from acting out the role of the US's nemesis for the purpose of fueling further tax payer funded innovation in hardware and more importantly tech.

That's why, for the most part, China cruises around in old buckets of sh*t.  Though scares the sh*t out of Vietnam and the Philipines.  

There will be no war between China and the US.  

Yes,  America's status as global super power will be relinquished, from the inside out through economic means.

 

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

8 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Both Xi and Polpot shared a common friend in Henry Kissinger.

 

funny you should mention that.

 

can you guess who funded the khmer rouge after they were overthrown?

who embargoed the new govenment installed by the vietnamese?

who allowed the the polpot regime to keep their un seat until 1993?

who voted to end un investigations into khmer rouge crimes?

who threated thailand with loss of trade privelages?

who prevented the un/unicef from working in cambodia?

who pressured asean not to disarm the khmer rouge?

who insisted investigations would not cover the period after 1979?

 

looks like china and the us should have a lot to talk about.

 

 

*not implying you don't know this, of course.  just pointing out the black hat/white hat narrative is getting old.*

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

America's status as global super power will be relinquished, from the inside out through economic means.

 

 

That's a goodly part of what this thread discussion is about -- the need for any country that desires to prevail to maintain its own economic (and health) security, including adequate, reliable supply chains not dependent on adversaries.  It's not too late...even with a numbskull like Trump as president.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

China can build all the destroyers and combat air craft it likes,

 

These days, China is building their own aircraft carriers, not just destroyers... Their aspirations and military capacity are expanding.

 

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/04/17/chinas_aircraft_carriers_bark_or_bite_115213.html

 

Quote

 

While one of the United States’ aircraft carriers, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is dealing with a corona virus outbreak that has now become deadly, one of China’s aircraft carriers sailed past Taiwan in a show of force. Though Taiwan scrambled jets to intercept and monitor the sail-by, it was perhaps not the best moment for the U.S. Navy. 

 

 

Quote

 If the Type 003 and Type 004 can put their money where their mouth is—if they are as capable as projected by western analysts and as claimed by the Chinese—then they would indeed be a force to be reckoned with. 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 

 

This is old fashioned thinking. Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost.

 

 Which is why Trump is having difficulty reining in China. The opposition, by hobbling Trump 24/7 365 days a year are strengthening the Chinese hand. This is a real tragedy. After all, were it not for politics of hate and divisiveness coming from team Dem, all Americans would benefit from beneficial trade deals with China, and if necessary bringing back some important industries.

 

Well, best of luck to Trump. I liken his efforts to a sprinter trying to dash the 100m yet his opponents tied sandbags to his feet, and are now laughing at his slowness. Sad. Very sad.

"Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost."

 

What a load of nonsense, it really does not deserve anymore words than this.

[Heppinger]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

funny you should mention that.

 

can you guess who funded the khmer rouge after they were overthrown?

who embargoed the new govenment installed by the vietnamese?

who allowed the the polpot regime to keep their un seat until 1993?

who voted to end un investigations into khmer rouge crimes?

who threated thailand with loss of trade privelages?

who prevented the un/unicef from working in cambodia?

who pressured asean not to disarm the khmer rouge?

who insisted investigations would not cover the period after 1979?

 

looks like china and the us should have a lot to talk about.

 

 

*not implying you don't know this, of course.  just pointing out the black hat/white hat narrative is getting old.*

 

Yes am well aware of the events and actors involved regarding the Cambodian genocide.  

I'm happy to see we are on the same page.

China and the US are more than willing to cooperate when genocide, regime and social change are the order of the day.

Hope you can agree with me that nothing has changed.

[Heppinger]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 It's not too late...even with a numbskull like Trump as president.

 

Your correct all that is needed is a spark, and blood, alot of blood. Though i cant see this happening.

 

The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[Phoenix Rising]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 

 

This is old fashioned thinking. Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost.

Congratulations. It's not easy to insert so much rubbish and utter tripe in just a few short sentences.

 

 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 

 

This is old fashioned thinking. Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost.

 

 Which is why Trump is having difficulty reining in China. The opposition, by hobbling Trump 24/7 365 days a year are strengthening the Chinese hand. This is a real tragedy. After all, were it not for politics of hate and divisiveness coming from team Dem, all Americans would benefit from beneficial trade deals with China, and if necessary bringing back some important industries.

 

Well, best of luck to Trump. I liken his efforts to a sprinter trying to dash the 100m yet his opponents tied sandbags to his feet, and are now laughing at his slowness. Sad. Very sad.

 

So why didn't you just say the dems are responsible for everything, their aim is to cause hate, perhaps even to blame for the rain yesterday. 

[Heppinger]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

So why didn't you just say the dems are responsible for everything, their aim is to cause hate, perhaps even to blame for the rain yesterday. 

Are those pesky dems using weather manipulation tactics again? Nancy is probably drunk at the controls again.

[johnnybangkok]

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 

 

This is old fashioned thinking. Nowadays it is not PC to mention the Tiananmen atrocity. Act like it never happened. After all, the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life. Anybody that says different will be bashed mercilessly at all cost.

 

 Which is why Trump is having difficulty reining in China. The opposition, by hobbling Trump 24/7 365 days a year are strengthening the Chinese hand. This is a real tragedy. After all, were it not for politics of hate and divisiveness coming from team Dem, all Americans would benefit from beneficial trade deals with China, and if necessary bringing back some important industries.

 

Well, best of luck to Trump. I liken his efforts to a sprinter trying to dash the 100m yet his opponents tied sandbags to his feet, and are now laughing at his slowness. Sad. Very sad.

Wow. You're really on a roll here.

You're stating (without any facts or links or anything of course) that 'the modern narrative is that communism is good for people, and good for the environment. Capitalism is evil, bad for the climate, and makes people unhappy having too many choices and responsibilities in their life.' That's one helluva reach right there but probably feeds right into your solution (post 22) to combat the evil Chinese by 'Default on any debts due to China. Confiscate any Chinese owned assets and bank accounts in the US. Deport all Chinese nationals back home. Ban all trade and travel between US/China'.  

I'm actually surprised you're not Trumps Secretary of State by now.   

 

[Eric Loh]

Trump should consult Obama on how to deal with China rather than listen to his neocons. History is full of passing of great nations. 

[RoadWarrior371]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:58 PM, scorecard said:

What makes you say that?

My day job is enabling factory capacity worldwide.  The Slab and Factory are minimal expenses.  Why do factories move?  Labor is the wrong answer as well.  Think Taxes.

[Nowisee]

 

On 5/15/2020 at 7:18 AM, Boon Mee said:

It's just pathetic to see the numbers of posters who hate Trump to the point they support the Commie Xi. 

Remember who initialized this Wuhan Flu <deleted>, eh? 

 

Instead of pulling together as a great nation, It has been and will continue to be the American peoples infighting that damages that country and does exactly what Xi wants.  
 

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, Nowisee said:

 

Instead of pulling together as a great nation, It has been and will continue to be the American peoples infighting that damages that country and does exactly what Xi wants.  
 

Reversing cultural marxism once it has infected the soft heads of half baked intellects would be extremely difficult and in most cases pointless.

Behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLQNUVmq3o

[Tie Dye Samurai]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:05 AM, Russell17au said:

You are such a smart, brainy, knowledgeable person. How about you tell all of us with what you can prove as to your allegations with indisputable proof from a source that is not a fake media source. Prove your allegations.

Ok...

 

Fox News Reports: China knew about the coronavirus and patient Zero one month earlier than it claimed:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-knew-about-coronavirus-earlier-patient-zero

 

Fox News Reports on April 1 the number of deaths in China: Coronavirus deaths top 4,000 in US, surpass China

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-top-4000-us-day-after-reaching-3000-mark

 

Fox News saying China is not telling the truth about their death rate:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-lied-coronavirus-cases-deaths-patients-intelligence
Fox reports and attribute 3 US Intelligence officials as saying "As coronavirus cases have jumped in recent days, China misled the world by purposely underreporting its numbers of patients and deaths"

 

So the first one is Fox telling us about how China was not telling the truth about when they first discovered the virus and Patient Zero

 

The second one is Fox reporting China's death rate on April 1 which is LAUGHABLE a month and half later that anybody would believe that a country as populous as China has that few deaths, especially when Fox News reports that is where the virus started.

 

The third one is Fox News actually reporting that US Intelligence says China is under reporting their numbers

 

Oh wait....is Fox News one of those fake media sources you were talking about? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

3 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Oh wait....is Fox News one of those fake media sources you were talking about? 

 

They do think Fox is fake news and they are going to ignore everything you posted because of it. 

 

Then they will post 'irrefutable' evidence from Vox, BuzzFeed, MSNBC and do it totally un-ironically. 

[Tie Dye Samurai]

6 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

They do think Fox is fake news and they are going to ignore everything you posted because of it. 

 

Then they will post 'irrefutable' evidence from Vox, BuzzFeed, MSNBC and do it totally un-ironically. 

Then they will love it even more that I still hate Donald Trump....and that I was posting all of that ironically because I actually do think Fox News is fake news.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Tie Dye Samurai

[Why Me]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:32 AM, webfact said:

Trump says he doesn't want to talk to Xi right now, could even cut China ties

Lovers' tiff. Been there done that. The makeup sex in that room in the WH that Melania doesn't know about will be amazing.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Why Me

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, Why Me said:

Lovers' tiff. Been there done that. The makeup sex in the room in the WH that Melania doesn't know about will be amazing.

Or maybe engage in some mutual human rights violations or perhaps a little ethnic cleansing.  I'm sure this would have Winnie the Poo hard as rock for Orange Man.

 

[Tie Dye Samurai]

1 minute ago, Heppinger said:

Or maybe engage in some mutual human rights violations or perhaps a little ethnic cleansing.  I'm sure this would have Winnie the Poo hard as rock for Orange Man.

 

Dont tease me....

[Mama Noodle]

17 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Then they will love it even more that I still hate Donald Trump....and that I was posting all of that ironically because I actually do think Fox News is fake news.

 

Guess I should have scrolled up and got some context before posting. 

 

Fox news is no more fake news than MSNBC/Vox/Buzzfeed/The Atlantic and even CNN, especially nowadays. 

[Tie Dye Samurai]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:10 AM, Mama Noodle said:

 

and yalls #2, Pelosi, has half a foot in the grave too. It'll be a good day in politics when they kick the bucket and fresh blood moves in. 

I would bet Mitch McConnell takes the eternal dirt nap before Pelosi does if you want the absolute truth...look at him...he could be the ghost of christmas past.....

[jimmyswale]

Trump will talk if there's something in it for him.Follow the money !

[Heppinger]

26 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

I would bet Mitch McConnell takes the eternal dirt nap before Pelosi does if you want the absolute truth...look at him...he could be the ghost of christmas past.....

I'm surprised Nancy hasn't fallen asleep and drowned herself in the bathtub yet.  Constantly off her face.