Attack on Taiwan an option to stop independence, top China general says

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts, off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[NordicDemon]

It's understandable that the Chinese leadership seek to publicly redirect focus to the Taiwan issue as China suffers from an increasing number of domestic challenges. The international political climate favors such redirection as well as China's reputation has already been tarnished, rightfully or not. By taking a more aggressive stance towards Taiwan at this time, the Chinese leadership might gain favor among some of its people and can outline new political principles without creating too much additional distrust. 

[soalbundy]

13 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Then be prepared for a conventional war with the USA or nuclear attack.

I doubt that the US would risk losing another war for a Chinese island and it is just as unlikely that China would risk destabilising the world and losing its trade partners. Wild rhetoric is the language of the children's playground as it is in politics. better than a punch up so let all sides keep squawking.

[Henryford]

I thought Taiwan was already independent? It's not part of China. The problem with China taking Taiwan is that it's the tip of the iceberg. Who is next Vietnam, Cambodia. Same as when Hitler took the Sudetenland. Where do you draw the line?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Henryford

[Rookiescot]

Taiwan has some excellent armed forces. They are well trained and equipped and in defense of their homeland well motivated too.

China might have a million men under arms but they dont have space for a million men on ships.

Invading Taiwan would not be an easy undertaking. 

Stalemate or defeat would see a change of leadership in China. You think they want to risk that?

[DoctorG]

Surprised nobody has mentioned Japan in this thread. The Js are itching to get stuck back into their mortal enemies again and have quietly built up their armed forces. Cannot do it by themselves but would definitely join in. 

[Odysseus123]

12 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I thought Taiwan was already independent? It's not part of China. The problem with China taking Taiwan is that it's the tip of the iceberg. Who is next Vietnam, Cambodia. Same as when Hitler took the Sudetenland. Where do you draw the line?

Well..I rather suspect that was the thinking in 1965...and we won't go there,eh?

 

However the PRC does claim sovereignty over Taiwan so I am in agreement with poster "soulbundy" the more jawing and the less warring the better.

 

 

[garzhe]

The only way to curb China's expansionism is economically. The world is now waking up to that fact with the present situation. 

[CharlieH]

Troll comment removed.

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

I doubt the USA or any other country will stand against China for Taiwan. There is no oil

This is not 40 years ago.  Currently has zero impact.

The US is now oil self sufficient in fact they export more oil then Saudi Arabia.

And recently, had so much excess oil being pumped they had no place to store it thus the price went to almost 0.

Could be Communists not taking over the world is more motivating.

Edited May 30, 2020 by bkk6060

[Thechook]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Hong Kong, Taiwan, who is next?  Thailand?

Difficult times but the western countries need to have a plan quickly to stop these Communist takeovers. 

The province of Australia.

[fvw53]

14 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Then be prepared for a conventional war with the USA or nuclear attack.

no all Trump will  do is send (may-be) an insulting tweet

[Eric Loh]

China military strategists are smart. They know that they can’t match the US in military might. They will not start a war with US but also will never back down from their desire to defend their backyard.  The Mao’s era of propagating communism is far gone in this new generation of Chinese leaders. They are not a threat to the world militarily with only 1 ex-Soviet aircraft carrier and no fighter aircrafts capabilities. They rather prefer soft power and prosperity. 
 

Modern Chinese strategists know their history; they still follow the teachings of Sun Tzu “choose a strategy which focuses on an enemy’s weaknesses and the greatest US weakness is the Pentagon’s stranglehold on US foreign and domestic policy. Trump’s nationalistic policies and his big military fascination just weakened US more. With military industry interests in every political constituency, over-powerful lobbyists with a friendly Trump rebuffee any major Pentagon budget cuts. US dwarfed China in military spending and will weaken US economy and curtail spending like health that will demoralized lives of Americans especially the young. 

 

 

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Tug said:

I agree but I doubt trump will do anything in spite of all his bluster he’s really a weak person imo and China knows it plus the vast majority of Americans don’t want to follow this man into a war nor does the military imo

Americans have been dragged into wars on false pretexts / lies repeatedly.  In recent decades, these were primarily foisted upon them by Oil Transnationals and another nation's foreign policy objectives - with the military supply corporations always glad to help.  Most US Media is owned by the same investors.  The State Dept is run by their representatives. 

 

With the CCP, we face a REAL existential threat to the USA and free nations in the region, and around the world.  Many of us objected to empowering a CCP-run China in the first place, citing the historical precedent of investments in Germany in the 1930s (as the USA was under capital-strike by the same).  But now, with a real threat at hand, the "crying wolf," to justify past wars, may make the needed response more difficult. 

 

Another hindrance to action, is that power within the USA is split on this.  One reason Flynn was targeted, was his assertion that "China is the Real Threat" (not Russia) - a position which, itself, is a threat to many billionaire's vested interests.  Many of the "Davos crowd" want to impose a version of the CCP's system on the entire world, and are not shy about saying so.  The tech companies already run their own version of the "social credit score" and exercise CCP-style political-censorship.

 

13 hours ago, Pilotman said:

yes it does, but treaties don't seem to mean much to Trump. 

"One China" became US official-policy under Carter/Brzezinski (the latter created the 'Taliban'), and that policy has continued ever since. 

 

If a "treaty" gets in the way of an objective of the elites, it will be discarded.  Trump will get his orders from them, and obey - or else. 

 

13 hours ago, Pilotman said:

sometime, someday, at some location, there is going to have to be a line draw in the sand with China.  Taiwan would be as good a location and cause as any to confront the communist thugs in Beijing. 

Breaking the agreement on Hong Kong would be another valid reason.  A "hot war" is not the only option, but "isolate and contain" should have been the policy since at least the day after the fall of the Berlin Wall - when China was no longer useful as a wedge against the Soviets. 

 

Instead, Russia and China were forced together, by the greedy Transnationals trying to "assimilate" Russia's natural-resources, via regime-change efforts and continued military advancement on Russian borders.  So much for "NATO will not move one inch beyond Germany" (James Baker III to Gorbechev - the same Baker who represented Cambodia vs Thailand in the Preah Vihear Temple case - doing serious harm US/Thai relations).

 

But, the Rockefeller/CFR, who populates EVERY state department no matter who wins the WH (to present) has been actively pushing to move the core of global power to China since at least the 1970s.  The State Dept has been run by 5th column traitors, going all the way back to Wilson, at least. 

 

It is possible there will be push-back now, only because the CCP may be resistant to Transnational-Corporate assimilation.  If the CCP seeks an independent course to its own power, they must be destroyed, in globalist-think. 

 

Therefore, sadly, any defense of Taiwan or Hong Kong will not be because the CCP is an evil totalitarian regime - it will be because they are not an "assimilated" regime, puppeteered by the same elites who control the largest transnational corporations and our own govt.  Like the CCP, the Transnationals also believe "there can only be one sun in the sky."  A "multi-polar world" composed of nations free of CCP AND Transnational-Corporate rule, is not an option either will consider.

[metisdead]

A post using a trolling reference to President Trump has been removed, it was off topic anyway. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

I thought Taiwan was already independent? It's not part of China. The problem with China taking Taiwan is that it's the tip of the iceberg. Who is next Vietnam, Cambodia. Same as when Hitler took the Sudetenland. Where do you draw the line?

I agree there are ominous parallels - including the financial support / investment in the CCP regime, just as happened with Germany. 

 

But the Taiwanese are not Chinese trapped in a foreign country as a persecuted minority, as were Germans in the Sudetenland as a result of the Treaty of Versailles, so there is even less justification for the CCP taking military action against Taiwan - or Hong Kong.

[Kiwiken]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

Have you seen where Taiwan is located. It would be a logistical nightmare for the USA. Plus China is far more willing to have dead soldiers then the USA. The battle is already lost before it even begins.

That's the spirit . Lets just try appeasement with the Chinese shall we. That has worked in the past. And it is not about Communist China. It is about a larger Country demanding Control of a smaller Country because there are a Chinese majority there. Shades of 1939. Taiwan was never a part of china. And like Vietnam and the rest of Indo China are not Serfs of their Giant Neighbour.

[phkauf]

42 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

  14 hours ago, robblok said:

I doubt the USA or any other country will stand against China for Taiwan. There is no oil

Not oil, but semi-conductors and technology. Taiwan is one of the world's leaders in designing and manufacturing cutting edge semi-conductors. These things run ALL the technology we use these days and are integral to nearly every piece of modern military hardware. China is at least a decade behind Taiwan in this technology, it's not a race they can easily catch up. Taiwan is crucial to America's self defense and entire industry. That is WORTH fighting for.

Even more important is the very strong bi-partisan support for a free Taiwan in the congress which can't agree on nearly anything. Trump has from the start been a strong supporter of Taiwan - his first congratulatory phone call was from the President of Taiwan and he proudly disclosed that to tell the Xi the game changed. Taiwan is a FREE DEMOCRATIC country and that means a lot for people.

Not only would the US strongly support Taiwan, so would Japan, S.Korea, Australia /NZ (they're one right), the UK and Canada. China's army and navy are paper tigers - yeah they have 1 million soldiers but most are just glorified police. Their weapons have not been battle tested and are generally considered sub-standard (yet Thailand is a willing buyer - go figure). The last time the PLA fought anyone was June 4, 1989 when they massacred thousands of innocent Chinese civilians in Tiananmen Square.

China's wonderful aircraft carrier would be sunk in about 5-minutes, as would most of their landing craft trying to come ashore. Taiwan is very well defended on their own and with the US base in Okinawa close by, China would not have a Chinaman's Chance of success. 

[zyphodb]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Taiwan is China’s most sensitive territorial issue. Beijing says it is a Chinese province, and has denounced the Trump administration’s support for the island.

Really? Whatever happened to Tibet???

[DoctorG]

58 minutes ago, Thechook said:

The province of Australia.

Nei Hau Cobber

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, DoctorG said:

Surprised nobody has mentioned Japan in this thread. The Js are itching to get stuck back into their mortal enemies again and have quietly built up their armed forces. Cannot do it by themselves but would definitely join in. 

They would likely not be included, unless directly attacked, for the very optics-reasons to which you allude.

[DoctorG]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

They would likely not be included, unless directly attacked, for the very optics-reasons to which you allude.

Understand your point but when the hot stuff is flying any help is ok.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, Heppinger said:

AC-130 gunship for the "far more people", and the tech you talk about is fairy tales. as China relies on American made CPU's to put in their sub standard jets, probably explains why they keep crashing, due to America giving them out dated CPU's that fail quality control.

The US military relies on CCP-based suppliers for many components - unfortunately.  Those who facilitated this should be hauled-up on treason charges. 

 

As well, the missile-tech China has now could sink a lot of US naval assets - barring some secret tech to stop them.  I am not sure about their defenses against AC-130s.

 

I do believe we should stand with HK and Taiwan, but should also not underestimate the CCP enemy. 

 

A full-blown war would be more devastating for China than the USA, due to the relative power of each to attack each other's homelands - short of using ICBMs, which would be suicide.

[zyphodb]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

They're making a move, though the timing smacks of opportunist COVID deflection. Let's be clear, this is not the Chinese. It is a despotic, out of touch pissant a-hole of an authoritarian club - utterly hated by the normal people - that needs its head removing for the betterment of the human race. Folk like to talk-up the power of the Chinese army etc, but they have no experience and would be a damp squib when it comes to it. The world should line up behind Taiwan and HK. If the nukes fly, have at it. 

When the Nukes fly... Do you really want to see the end of the world for Humans over a political point???

 Have you forgotten what Nukes do?

 

 

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Not oil, but semi-conductors and technology. Taiwan is one of the world's leaders in designing and manufacturing cutting edge semi-conductors. These things run ALL the technology we use these days and are integral to nearly every piece of modern military hardware. China is at least a decade behind Taiwan in this technology, it's not a race they can easily catch up. Taiwan is crucial to America's self defense and entire industry. That is WORTH fighting for.

Yes - but that is all Western technology which was outsourced to Taiwan.  Putting too much of this production there was a national-security blunder.  We need to repatriate it, as step one.  I don't mean abandon Taiwan - but cover our own backside while supporting Taiwan.
 

45 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Even more important is the very strong bi-partisan support for a free Taiwan in the congress which can't agree on nearly anything. Trump has from the start been a strong supporter of Taiwan - his first congratulatory phone call was from the President of Taiwan and he proudly disclosed that to tell the Xi the game changed. Taiwan is a FREE DEMOCRATIC country and that means a lot for people.

Trump's foreign-policy team was purged starting with Flynn.  His domestic-agenda was similarly destroyed within months.  I would not put faith in Trump on this.  The call will be made by those with a much higher pay-grade than POTUS.  Maybe "they" have decided the CCP needs to go, but there seems to be a split right now among the ruling-elite.

 

45 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Not only would the US strongly support Taiwan, so would Japan, S.Korea, Australia /NZ (they're one right), the UK and Canada.

All of whom have massive trade with China.  That will not be easy to accomplish.  Just look at the battle to keep CCP-back-door compromised Huawei tech from taking over the UK.  Check out Chinese foreign-investment in the UK - is massive.

 

The Billions made by the CCP's party-members, in selling their people as wage-slaves to the Transnationals, were invested in the West - now composing a huge power-bloc. 

 

45 minutes ago, phkauf said:

China's army and navy are paper tigers - yeah they have 1 million soldiers but most are just glorified police. Their weapons have not been battle tested and are generally considered sub-standard (yet Thailand is a willing buyer - go figure). The last time the PLA fought anyone was June 4, 1989 when they massacred thousands of innocent Chinese civilians in Tiananmen Square.

China's wonderful aircraft carrier would be sunk in about 5-minutes, as would most of their landing craft trying to come ashore. Taiwan is very well defended on their own and with the US base in Okinawa close by, China would not have a Chinaman's Chance of success. 

What would happen to American naval assets, though? 

I would bet support would be flown out of Guam, to keep the Japanese out of it - for as long as possible, at least.  Too bad we don't have assets U-Tapo, any more.  Hopefully the Chinese won't get to use that base.

[Brunolem]

24 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I do believe we should stand with HK and Taiwan, but should also not underestimate the CCP enemy. 

 

A full-blown war would be more devastating for China than the USA, due to the relative power of each to attack each other's homelands - short of using ICBMs, which would be suicide.

What really infuriates Washington is not Hong Kong and Taiwan, which are both populated by Chinese people by the way, but China's expansion towards the West!

 

The BRI (Belt and Road Initiative) has already pulled together the countries of Central Asia all the way to Turkey, as well as large parts of Africa.

 

China is not interested in pointless and ruinous military adventures, that is the domain of the US, it much prefers to conquer economically (soft power).

 

Just look at what is going on in Afghanistan.

 

While the US has spent huge amounts of money on military bases and occupation forces, China has signed deals to exploit the vast mineral reserves of the country.

 

American uniforms vs Chinese suits...who's spending his money the more wisely?

[anterian]

It is not just a China versus US conflict, The British, French and Australian navies are on the scene and India and Japan have an interest, as does Vietnam, Indonesia and the Filipinos. There are all the makings of a global conflict here.  

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

What really infuriates Washington is not Hong Kong and Taiwan, which are both populated by Chinese people by the way,  ...

The Chinese people in HK and Taiwan can speak freely w/o fear of being disappeared, jailed, etc.  That's the difference.  Their racial/cultural identity is not the issue.

 

Quote

... but China's expansion towards the West! 

The BRI (Belt and Road Initiative) has already pulled together the countries of Central Asia all the way to Turkey, as well as large parts of Africa.

The CCP's outspoken plan to dominate the world, you mean?  Yes, that is a problem, to say the least.
 

Quote

China is not interested in pointless and ruinous military adventures, that is the domain of the US, it much prefers to conquer economically (soft power).

 

Just look at what is going on in Afghanistan.

Yes.  And ironically, that is being made possible, to an extent, by US military operations. 

 

Transnational corporations and foreign nations misusing the US military as mercenary forces to protect their overseas investments - actions which do not benefit the American people in any way - is indeed an ongoing problem.

 

Quote

While the US has spent huge amounts of money on military bases and occupation forces, China has signed deals to exploit the vast mineral reserves of the country.

 

American uniforms vs Chinese suits...who's spending his money the more wisely?

Good point, and all the more reason for concern as regards the growing global-power of the CCP.

Edited May 30, 2020 by JackThompson

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Good point, and all the more reason for concern as regards the growing global-power of the CCP.

No need for a military confrontation to weaken China, just "convince" American unpatriotic corporations, such as Apple, Nike, Levi's, and so on, to move their operations elsewhere.

 

China's wealth and power comes, to a very large extent, from Western corporations' greed.

 

China didn't have to conquer anything, it was all brought to her on a silver platter by the West, the same West which is now whining about the consequences of its own foolishness...

[holy cow cm]

13 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

No need for a military confrontation to weaken China, just "convince" American unpatriotic corporations, such as Apple, Nike, Levi's, and so on, to move their operations elsewhere.

 

China's wealth and power comes, to a very large extent, from Western corporations' greed.

 

China didn't have to conquer anything, it was all brought to her on a silver platter by the West, the same West which is now whining about the consequences of its own foolishness...

With war or a skirmish comes a final end to all US companies in China. So be it! India and almost most countries are all allies. China has Russia but Russia will look the other way.