England risks COVID-19 resurgence by ending lockdown too soon, scientific advisers say

[sawadee1947]

28 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Check your source, because the UK tests over 100,000 per day and has the capacity for 200,000 per day. 

Well, I did. Germany up to 500..000

[HerbyJFlash]

I don’t like to speculate on deaths but I said to my friend that we will see 600 deaths again by 15th June. And I predict 800 by July. We had 412 Thursday anyway.

 

Lockdown eased well too early, but saying that, people had given up about two weeks before these new rules were lifted anyway.

 

The track and trace WILL NOT WORK! People won’t grass their friends. “Yeah I was with my friend who is filing for bankruptcy and has a baby due in September, yeah call and him ban him from working for two weeks.”

 

Also if track and chase call and you say you was 2m apart you don’t have to isolate anyway!

 

The new lockdown is about shifting the blame to the public now. We will get blamed for disobeying rules and take the heat of the their HORRENDOUS handling of this crisis.

 

Im not even left wing but Boris and co are indefensible right now. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by HerbyJFlash

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Maybe, maybe not.

 

From BBC: "The UK has exceeded its target to increase coronavirus testing capacity to 200,000 a day by the end of May." would support your claim, but 

"While capacity for testing is over 200,000, a little more than 115,000 tests were carried out in the 24 hours up to 09:00 BST on Sunday.

For several days, the government has been unable to give figures on the exact number of people who were tested." indicates one day 100k+, other days possibly/probably less; and

"The UK now has capacity for 40,000 antibody tests a day, the Department for Health and Social Care confirmed.

The tests, which determine whether someone has had the virus, are currently only available to health and care staff." indicates far less.

Its the 1st June so:

 

the UK tests over 100,000 per day and has the capacity for 200,000 per day. 

 

I've not seen any day in the last week when tests were below 100,000

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Well, I did. Germany up to 500..000

I'm not disputing what Germany does a day as I've not checked their figures but you stated that the UK has the capacity for 200,000 tests a week, that is wrong. UK has the capacity for 200,000 a day

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, 473geo said:

England leading from the front, there was always going to be a limit to length of the 'lock down' due to financial implications and adherence, what needed to be achieved by 'lock down' has been achieved.

No problem if those susceptible continue to exercise extreme caution, responsibility has shifted, now it falls on the individual, and, family groups, to assess their own situation and act accordingly.

Of course those that get it wrong will inevitably blame the government, those that remain unaffected will take credit for their 'brave' actions ????

 

Spot on. 

There was always going to be a day when the Risk Assessment carried out would decide that the balance between a death from Covid would carry less weight than all the other negatives from a lockdown re jobs, mental/physical health etc. That time has come., and they are now easing restrictions even though by their own admission we are not at that point. 
 

The Government will say it has done everything it can to contain the virus, the lockdown has been a success  and now it is down to individuals to manage their course of action and show caution. 
 

Scenes over the weekend show that for many they have no discipline and it’s all about me, me, me with no thought of the consequences. The Governments handling of the Cummings fiasco has not helped but in all probability the same people would go about their daily life In the same manner. 

The situation now is too many people have too much time on their hands. They need to get people back to work as soon as. Wasting time delaying businesses opening is just creating other issues re groups of people meeting up wherever to kill time. 
 

The lockdown is over, people will now do whatever they choose rightly or wrongly. It’s down to individual responsibility to carry it on. 
 

 

 

[Kadilo]

7 minutes ago, HerbyJFlash said:

I don’t like to speculate on deaths but I said to my friend that we will see 600 deaths again by 15th June. And I predict 800 by July. We had 412 Thursday anyway.

 

Lockdown eased well too early, but saying that, people had given up about two weeks before these new rules were lifted anyway.

 

The track and chase WILL NOT WORK! People won’t grass their friends. “Yeah I was with my friend who is filing for bankruptcy and has a baby due in September, yeah call and him ban him from working for two weeks.”

 

Also if track and chase call and you say you was 2m apart you don’t have to isolate anyway!

 

The new lockdown is about shifting the blame to the public now. We will get blamed for disobeying rules and take the heat of the their HORRENDOUS handling of this crisis.

 

Im not even left wing but Boris and co are indefensible right now. 

Track and chase sounds more fun. 

[madmen]

5 minutes ago, 473geo said:

England leading from the front, there was always going to be a limit to length of the 'lock down' due to financial implications and adherence, what needed to be achieved by 'lock down' has been achieved.

No problem if those susceptible continue to exercise extreme caution, responsibility has shifted, now it falls on the individual, and, family groups, to assess their own situation and act accordingly.

Of course those that get it wrong will inevitably blame the government, those that remain unaffected will take credit for their 'brave' actions ????

 

Didn't need to come to that. Australia half the population for 100 dead compared to UK 50K Dead!!

 

Some mentioned that density played a part but 80% of oz is desert and nearly all population  close to the sea so the density is there.

 

Why the massive difference? Well let's put it this way ,oz citizens are still not allowed to leave the country! And probably won't be until 2021.

 

UK took a terrible gamble with citizens lives and lost and still gambling by easing lockdown. Unbelievable!

[473geo]

Just now, madmen said:

Didn't need to come to that. Australia half the population for 100 dead compared to UK 50K Dead!!

 

Some mentioned that density played a part but 80% of oz is desert and nearly all population  close to the sea so the density is there.

 

Why the massive difference? Well let's put it this way ,oz citizens are still not allowed to leave the country! And probably won't be until 2021.

 

UK took a terrible gamble with citizens lives and lost and still gambling by easing lockdown. Unbelievable!

Well lets look at 'care homes' and those that died in hospital out of 'care homes'

UK over 25% of deaths

Scotland over 50% of deaths

Maybe it is the new wave of people in the UK who are not willing to care for their aged relatives at home, maybe too easy to cast them out and make them the responsibility of the government. at the very least the numbers would suggest the younger elements of society should be allowed to get on with life as the risk is minimal

 

In my view any person who seeks to compare a country where initial exposure was in the hot summer to countries where exposure arrived in the winter months is clearly lacking a level of lateral thinking

 

 

[7by7]

21 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

What is the problem it's a nice day for the park and the beach, shame the pubs are not open. If you are not in the high risk groups it's not much of a problem.

Research shows that many people may have the virus but are asymptomatic; still infectious, though. Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?

 

Even people with symptoms are infectious for several days before displaying those symptoms. If you have the coronavirus, how long before symptoms show up?

 

This may not a problem for you, but it's a big problem for anyone in a high risk group that you could easily pass it onto; whether directly, via third parties or you both touching the same surface.

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm not disputing what Germany does a day as I've not checked their figures but you stated that the UK has the capacity for 200,000 tests a week, that is wrong. UK has the capacity for 200,000 a day

well, that's an extremely poor performance for this outstanding empire, isn't it? Thanks to BoJo. 

[Crazy Alex]

Many of these *scientific advisors* have been wrong virtually every step of the way. How long are people supposed to listen to these clowns before we simply ignore them altogether?

[Bkk Brian]

37 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

well, that's an extremely poor performance for this outstanding empire, isn't it? Thanks to BoJo. 

Not interested in the politics, just pointing out your mistake on figures as it was misleading

[impulse]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

This may not a problem for you, but it's a big problem for anyone in a high risk group that you could easily pass it onto; whether directly, via third parties or you both touching the same surface.

 

If I can pass it on to someone, doesn't that mean they have made a choice to put themselves where they may be exposed to my germs?  If they're at higher risk, it may be wise for them to protect themselves by isolating, while the rest of the world gets back to drawing a paycheck and living life.

 

[impulse]

6 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Scenes over the weekend show that for many they have no discipline and it’s all about me, me, me with no thought of the consequences. 

 

When I see crowds at the beaches, on the streets and in the stores, I think that those are the sights and sounds of money changing hands, and people making a living.  Finally.

 

The flipside of that is the old retired geezers with pension checks rolling in who only think about their situation when they insist the lockdowns continue, ruining the financial futures of the people who still have to work if they want to eat and pay rent, much less be in a position where they can retire when they become an old codger.

 

There's a lot of me...me...me... on the other side, too.  Though we usually call it the "I'm alright Jack" syndrome.

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by impulse

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If I can pass it on to someone, doesn't that mean they have made a choice to put themselves where they may be exposed to my germs?  If they're at higher risk, it may be wise for them to protect themselves by isolating, while the rest of the world gets back to drawing a paycheck and living life.

 

I think you missed the point, if you pass it on without knowing you have it yourself, then that could be to anyone, elderly, young, middle age it really does not matter, they can then pass it on to others who are in high risk groups.

 

High risk groups can also be young, people with asthma are also high risk, those with cancer and respiratory problems, they also work and draw their pay checks. My daughter being one of them in the UK and she's also an essential key worker.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I think you missed the point, if you pass it on without knowing you have it yourself, then that could be to anyone, elderly, young, middle age it really does not matter, they can then pass it on to others who are in high risk groups.

 

High risk groups can also be young, people with asthma are also high risk, those with cancer and respiratory problems, they also work and draw their pay checks. My daughter being one of them in the UK and she's also an essential key worker.

 

No, I didn't miss the point at all.  Your daughter is the envy of a lot of my friends who are sitting at home going broke because they're not allowed to draw a paycheck.  They don't have a choice.  Your daughter does.  She may be essential, and I salute her for showing up.  But she is the one that chooses.  Not the Gov't.  

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by impulse

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, impulse said:

 

No, I didn't miss the point at all.  Your daughter is the envy of a lot of my friends are sitting at home going broke because they're not allowed to draw a paycheck.  They don't have a choice.  Your daughter does.  She may be essential, and I salute her for showing up.  But she is the one that chooses.  Not the Gov't.

 

So how did you not miss the point, I gave you examples of how you can pass this on to those at high risk groups who you said should stay at home and you come back with a story about your mates.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

So how did you not miss the point, I gave you examples of how you can pass this on to those at high risk groups who you said should stay at home and you come back with a story about your mates.

 

I can't pass it on to high risk groups if they're staying at home...

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I can't pass it on to high risk groups if they're staying at home...

 

 

My example was pretty clear, my daughter is in the high risk group, she does not stay at home, she goes to work every day and draws her monthly paycheck. You can also pass it on to a healthy young person who then passes that on to his elderly mum at home who is in the high risk group.....

Edited June 1, 2020 by Bkk Brian

[richard_smith237]

The objectives of the lock down were not to overwhelm the health services.

Objectives have been met.

 

NHS high dependency beds were at 30% capacity at the height of the outbreak.

NHS high dependency beds are now at 15% capacity (Source BBC news).

 

There is not reason to continue the lock down.

Those in high risk groups can continue to isolate - they can make their own choice.

 

Of course, an element of risk continues, there's an element of risk in life full stop.

What is the element of risk to those who suffer from mental illness, those who've lost their jobs etc.

 

Decisions are now being made by those fearful of criticism instead of what is best for the health of the nation. By health I mean combined physical and economic health.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

The objectives of the lock down were not to overwhelm the health services.

Objectives have been met.

 

NHS high dependency beds were at 30% capacity at the height of the outbreak.

NHS high dependency beds are now at 15% capacity (Source BBC news).

 

There is not reason to continue the lock down.

Those in high risk groups can continue to isolate - they can make their own choice.

 

Of course, an element of risk continues, there's an element of risk in life full stop.

What is the element of risk to those who suffer from mental illness, those who've lost their jobs etc.

 

Decisions are now being made by those fearful of criticism instead of what is best for the health of the nation. By health I mean combined physical and economic health.

 

 

 

I totally agree, not all high risk groups can stay at home however but there will always be risks until there is a vaccine or effective treatment, the numbers are going down and as long as the lockdown easing is well managed then lets do it.

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

My example was pretty clear, my daughter is in the high risk group, she does not stay at home, she goes to work every day and draws her monthly paycheck. You can also pass it on to a healthy young person who then passes that on to his elderly mum at home who is in the high risk group.....

 

Crystal clear.  The relative of that high risk person has chosen not to isolate.  That's not on me.  Your daughter has also made her choice.   Nobody's forcing her to put her life at risk.  She can quit collecting her paycheck any time she wants.  But then she'd be in the same boat with millions of others who aren't allowed to work.  I get the sense that she'd prefer to keep working.  She's lucky that she has that option.

 

The government hasn't imposed a choice on them.

Edited June 1, 2020 by impulse

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, impulse said:

 

Crystal clear.  The relative of that high risk person has chosen not to isolate.  That's not on me.  Your daughter has also made her choice.   Nobody's forcing her to put her life at risk.  She can quit collecting her paycheck any time she wants.  But then she'd be in the same boat with millions of others who aren't allowed to work.  I get the sense that she'd prefer to keep working.  

 

The government hasn't imposed a choice on them.

Yea clear as mud ????

[puipuitom]

What is the fuzz ?

 

The UK ONLY has to tolerate the USA ahead of them seen the total casualties per country.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=CSauthorbio? 

39,045 casualties with a population of just 67,856,881.

Even the spaghetti eaters with only 33,475  and the frog legs swallowers with 28,833 are far behind.  The Huns... with 8,613 are even not in the race anymore...,

The Belgiums.. do not play it hounoust, as they also count all those care-oldies who nearly sure passed away to corona, in the care homes too.

 

Can Boris not go on a Happy Handshake Tour again ? Or his brains, Dominic Cummins ?  

 

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/second-wave-coronavirus-covid-uk-europe-winter-peak/

 

Second more deadly wave of coronavirus expected 'to hit Europe this winter'

Europe's top WHO official warns that second spike could coincide with outbreaks of other infectious diseases

[Anton9]

13 hours ago, puipuitom said:

What is the fuzz ?

 

The UK ONLY has to tolerate the USA ahead of them seen the total casualties per country.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=CSauthorbio? 

39,045 casualties with a population of just 67,856,881.

Even the spaghetti eaters with only 33,475  and the frog legs swallowers with 28,833 are far behind.  The Huns... with 8,613 are even not in the race anymore...,

The Belgiums.. do not play it hounoust, as they also count all those care-oldies who nearly sure passed away to corona, in the care homes too.

 

Can Boris not go on a Happy Handshake Tour again ? Or his brains, Dominic Cummins ?  

 

The Belgiums.. do not play it hounoust, as they also count all those care-oldies who nearly sure passed away to corona, in the care homes too.

 

Every country in Europe count deaths in care homes, which are the vast majority of deaths  anyway.

And it says it all about the danger of this virus.

[Peter Denis]

29 minutes ago, Anton9 said:

The Belgiums.. do not play it hounoust, as they also count all those care-oldies who nearly sure passed away to corona, in the care homes too.

 

Every country in Europe count deaths in care homes, which are the vast majority of deaths  anyway.

And it says it all about the danger of this virus.

The death figures in Belgium are way higher than other European countries, because in Belgium all deaths in care-homes where they suspected the corona virus might be involved, were counted as corona-deaths. E.g. if there were 2 corona-deaths in a care-home, and 1 week later 10 more people died there, all of these were counted as corona-deaths because of that possible earlier connection.

When the death-figures are broken down in age-categories, it tells a whole different story than 'everybody is at risk, and therefore everybody should be Quarantained '.

[Chiphigh]

On 5/31/2020 at 4:38 PM, TheDark said:

Sweden did experiment keeping the society open to gain country wide immunity without vaccination. They failed. 

 

If UK wishes to do the same, that's ok. Now that UK has left the EU, their people can be confined to stay in their own country for the time it takes to get through this pandemic. Some more people will die, but I guess that's ok to keep the owners happy.

No, they didn't fail. They just didn't apply the ridiculous draconian measures based on failed models. 

 

Life went on and their deaths per million is less than the uk, France, Italy, Spain and Belgium without crushing business, jobs and people's future 

[Chiphigh]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/second-wave-coronavirus-covid-uk-europe-winter-peak/

 

Second more deadly wave of coronavirus expected 'to hit Europe this winter'

Europe's top WHO official warns that second spike could coincide with outbreaks of other infectious diseases

More ridiculous panic spreading idiots 

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, Chiphigh said:

More ridiculous panic spreading idiots 

Always good to see s well reasoned, easy to understand argument from an expert.