Anyone have a crystal ball for us Non O holders?

[johnny1966]

Almost impossible to know what will come on July 31st, those of us who currently are on Non immigrant O visas being married to a Thai and whose permission to stay expired post end of March and whose visas will expire pre July 31st have three options as I see it: 1. Do a 60 day extension (if allowed under Amnesty) before July 31st and then hope borders open so a fresh visa can be obtained. 2. Go and apply for a fresh non O multi after borders open assuming that Thai consulates will still issue such and one is able to re-enter Thailand without too many restrictions. 3. Apply for a 1 year extension if one meets the criteria AND if the Amnesty allows for an extension to be applied for. This is a big if. I think no-one can say if this will be permitted or not. Exciting times ahead.

[BritTim]

In my view, most offices will allow an application for a one-year extension of stay (if the conditions are met) but the extended permission to stay will run from when your regular permission to stay ended. I believe the main objective of the automatic extension is to provide a grace period during which people should either apply for a regular extension, or leave the country. However, I suspect the instructions given to immigration officials are probably as ambiguous as those given to foreigners. Very likely, some offices are going to have their own more or less irrational interpretation of the rules.

[DrJack54]

OP, Your post is very important. We all rely on ubonjoe. 

Personally my thinking that guys using multi entry to visit wife when in fact living Thailand might be caught out. Needing to exit  will be major issue

 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Very likely, some offices are going to have their own more or less irrational interpretation of the rules.

Stop talk riddles. Does OP need exit post amnesty. Hopefully will be extended.

If not he needs exit Thailand

[johnny1966]

Both valid arguments Brittim and Drjack. I would imagine there are quite a few here on non o multis that will need to exit either to get a further 90 days or apply for a new visa. And quite a few will not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension. 

[nightfox]

The smartest thing would be to do a 60 day extension for those who still have a valid Non O after July 31 I would think as that's what Im doing.

[johnny1966]

2 minutes ago, nightfox said:

The smartest thing would be to do a 60 day extension for those who still have a valid Non O after July 31 I would think as that's what Im doing.

When you say a 'valid non o' you mean those whose permission to stay is covered under the Amnesty. The expiration date of the visa doesn't apply here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Phil McCaverty]

49 minutes ago, johnny1966 said:

Both valid arguments Brittim and Drjack. I would imagine there are quite a few here on non o multis that will need to exit either to get a further 90 days or apply for a new visa. And quite a few will not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension. 

A Thai/French couple I know come here every winter on a Non "O", Flew back to France today. Always an option.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Very likely, some offices are going to have their own more or less irrational interpretation of the rules.

Stop talk riddles. Does OP need exit post amnesty. Hopefully will be extended.

If not he needs exit Thailand

I am not being deliberately obtuse. No one can predict with certainty what is going to happen in Thailand after July 31st. I specifically restricted my comments to those able to apply for long term extensions (and stressed that, even there, some offices might deviate from what is expected). As for whether people will be able to travel to nearby countries, get fresh multiple entry Non O visas, and return (with or without quarantine) I have absolutely no idea. 

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

When you say a 'valid non o' you mean those whose permission to stay is covered under the Amnesty. The expiration date of the visa doesn't apply here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's what you would think would occur.

Meaning apply for 60 day extension prior to July 31. If indeed it turns out that way then even folk that previously had a visa exempt stamp or tourist visa and did not apply for an extension previously could in fact do so.

 

 

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

1. Do a 60 day extension (if allowed under Amnesty) before July 31st and then hope borders open so a fresh visa can be obtained.

Do we know if they will add 60 to the date of application?  In other words, will they add 60 to the "auotmatic covid extension"? 

 

I already used my 60 before the July 31 rule (blocked by "undocumented requirements" for the 1-year), so doesn't help me - but even if I had not used that 60-day, I would not count on this being an option.

  

12 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

Both valid arguments Brittim and Drjack. I would imagine there are quite a few here on non o multis that will need to exit either to get a further 90 days or apply for a new visa. And quite a few will not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension. 

Note that "meeting the requirements for a 1 year extension" includes whatever "unpublished requirements" they tack on.  Many of us are on Multi-Non-Os ONLY because of the "unpublished requirements," to spite meeting every "official requirement" to the letter.

 

Anyone wanting to avail themselves of a 1-year extension should apply ASAP, and find out what the full rule-set is at their office at present.  They seem to have periodic meetings to determine if envelope-money revenue is sufficient, and change the "unpublished requirements" to suit.

Edited June 3, 2020 by JackThompson

[Stocky]

13 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

3. Apply for a 1 year extension if one meets the criteria

I went with option 3. My stamp was valid until May 22nd, my Non-O multi was valid until June 4th. No chance of doing a visa run and didn't want to wait until July 31st in the hope of going somewhere to obtain a new Non-O multi. So applied for a 1 year extension a couple of weeks before the stamp expired. Application accepted and under consideration.

 

.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Stocky

[PatchinExPat]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Stop talk riddles. Does OP need exit post amnesty. Hopefully will be extended.

If not he needs exit Thailand

I don't know his exact procedure to stay at this point , but riddles are often the answers you

get from immigration .

I had reason to take my 800000 baht out of the bank for something.

I had enough time to use it and return it with 8 month rest before needing renew visa.

But when I got there they said sorry, this year you need 1 year of rest in the bank for 

your 800000 baht. No visa extension for you.

I called a lawyer who handles visas in Bangkok and he said wrong, by law it only need to be 

there for 2 months but immigration handles it differently according to the office.

 

So now I am looking for a way get my extension before june 17.

 

It was so much easier when you could just pass an envelope to them with

your papers and quickly get your stamp.

Edited June 3, 2020 by PatchinExPat
misspelling

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, PatchinExPat said:

But when I got there they said sorry, this year you need 1 year of rest in the bank for 

your 800000 baht. No visa extension for you.

I explained that in another topic you did i believe.

You apparently took all money out of your account. Since March 1st of last year you have to keep the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after you apply for the extension and then 400k baht until you top up your account to 800k baht 2 months before you apply.

The reply I did in a topic you did is here. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1166605-marriage-visa-and-health-insurance/?do=findComment&comment=15475078

 

 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, PatchinExPat said:

...

I had reason to take my 800000 baht out of the bank for something.

I had enough time to use it and return it with 8 month rest before needing renew visa.

But when I got there they said sorry, this year you need 1 year of rest in the bank for 

your 800000 baht. No visa extension for you.

...

So now I am looking for a way get my extension before june 17.

...

If during the 12 months preceding your application you did go under the 800K during first 3 and last 2 months of that period, or under 400K during the intermediate 7 months, the application for your 1-year extension of stay using the money-in-bank method will be refused.

And since you used that method, you will for sure not have transferred each month 65K to your personal thai bank account, thus also blocking the monthly-income transfer method for your application.

The only option left to meet the financial requirement would be to get an Affidavit from your Embassy, stating that you had monthly income of at least 65K during the past period (e.g. from pension, dividends, rental income, ...).  However, if you are a citizen from US, UK or Australia that option is also blocked as the embassies of those countries do not provide such Affidavits anymore.

So when you cannot get such an Affidavit, your only options left are:

1 -  Making use of an agent with the right connections at IO to circumvent the financial requirement, and get you a 1-year extension - obviously that's not legit, but there are many retirees that are unable to meet the financial requirements, that make use of such agent service.

OR

2 - Wait till the end of the Amnesty (31 July) and if the borders are open again by then, do a border run and re-enter Thailand Visa Exempt.  And then apply at your local IO for a 90-day Non Imm O retirement Visa, and in the last month of that 90-days apply for the 1-year extension of that Non Imm O retirement Visa. 

>> In case you want to go that last route, let me know and I will PM you a comprehensive guideline document outlining all options/details to apply for such a 90-day Non Imm O retirement Visa.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[sometimewoodworker]

39 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

2 - Wait till the end of the Amnesty (31 July) and if the borders are open again by then, do a border run and re-enter Thailand Visa Exempt. 

If visa exempt entry is still permitted.

41 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

And then apply at your local IO for a 90-day Non Imm O retirement Visa, and in the last month of that 90-days apply for the 1-year extension of that Non Imm O retirement Visa. 

For that you are required by the immigration document to show that your 800k came from overseas or that you have a mix of overseas transfers and funds from overseas. Some officials do not accept foreign income without an embassy letter.

 

[AgMech Cowboy]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Personally my thinking that guys using multi entry to visit wife when in fact living Thailand might be caught out.

I'll take my chances. So much easier to apply for my Non-O every 14-17 months, pop over to Phu Nam Ron every than 90 than deal with Pathum Thani IO. (oh, and yes I 'qualify' for a marriage extension with my SSA payments. I just don't want the hassle of the IO every 90).

[gamini]

18 hours ago, johnny1966 said:

Both valid arguments Brittim and Drjack. I would imagine there are quite a few here on non o multis that will need to exit either to get a further 90 days or apply for a new visa. And quite a few will not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension. 

if they dont have 400k or an income and want to stay here how do they support  thier Thai familly. 

[transam]

10 minutes ago, gamini said:

if they dont have 400k or an income and want to stay here how do they support  thier Thai familly. 

I would suggest the vast % have an income of some sort....????

[Inepto Cracy]

Ask gypsies, they always have crystal balls. Ask for Madame La Luna in caravan 30024.

[JackThompson]

28 minutes ago, gamini said:

if they dont have 400k or an income and want to stay here how do they support  thier Thai familly. 

It's not enough to just meet the "published" requirements, is the main problem.  If all offices followed only the published rules, and accepted 40K/mo foreign-income of any kind (not "only a state pension"), there would be little demand for the Non-O-ME Visas.

[Bangkok Barry]

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

That's what you would think would occur.

Meaning apply for 60 day extension prior to July 31. If indeed it turns out that way then even folk that previously had a visa exempt stamp or tourist visa and did not apply for an extension previously could in fact do so.

 

 

We have constantly been told by UbonJoe and others that the amnesty means we have to do nothing. Nothing does not include applying for a 60 day extension.

 

Unless I've misunderstood something.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

if they dont have 400k or an income and want to stay here how do they support  thier Thai familly. 

I can live very comfortably on less than 20,000 a month, with car, aircon, internet, IPTV, mix of Thai and farang food. All while supporting a wife and five dogs. That's why it pi**es me off when 400,000 or 800,000 is demanded to be held in the bank. I know there are those who can't imagine living on less than 100,000 a month, but one size doesn't fit all.

But then, I bought a house when the Baht was in the toilet.

[Number 6]

I think as lonas your dates are within bounds and your paperwork correct it will be a go.

 

They're going to be flooded with applications, deluged. They aren't going to try tripping people up, sending them away only to see them back a week later with more gap in their visa stay.

 

I don't think it will be an issue but I bet it will take months to clear the backlogs.

[Number 6]

5 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I can live very comfortably on less than 20,000 a month, with car, aircon, internet, IPTV, mix of Thai and farang food. All while supporting a wife and five dogs. That's why it pi**es me off when 400,000 or 800,000 is demanded to be held in the bank. I know there are those who can't imagine living on less than 100,000 a month, but one size doesn't fit all.

But then, I bought a house when the Baht was in the toilet.

I'm pretty frugal and honestly don't see how you do that. I'm sure living at the end of the earth helps. Having a paid house, helps. Are you including petrol, maintenance, insurance? You say supporting but that sounds like it means feeding and keeping a roof over the wife's head.

 

Holidays? Getaway weekends? Dental? Medical? Vet bills?

 

AC in May must have run you 5k in a house alone.

 

Nothing wrong with them asking us to keep 400k on hand.

 

You didn't buy a house. Your wife bought the house. Some fish spent there bud.

[Peter Denis]

40 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

We have constantly been told by UbonJoe and others that the amnesty means we have to do nothing. Nothing does not include applying for a 60 day extension.

 

Unless I've misunderstood something.

Indeed, there will be NO overstay-penalties when your current permission to stay expires during the Amnesty period because ALL permissions to stay are automatically extended till 31 July.

However, what is not so sure is whether IO will allow you to apply for your 1-year extension of stay when you did not apply before the normal due date of your permission to stay.  And in that case you would be forced to exit the country once the Amnesty is over and apply again from scratch.

Hence the recommendation to do your 1-year extension of stay before the due date.

And in case you do not meet the requirements yet, you could as an intermediate step apply for the 60-day extension of stay to ensure an unbroken chain of extensions.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[johnny1966]

29 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Indeed, there will be NO overstay-penalties when your current permission to stay expires during the Amnesty period because ALL permissions to stay are automatically extended till 31 July.

However, what is not so sure is whether IO will allow you to apply for your 1-year extension of stay when you did not apply before the normal due date of your permission to stay.  And in that case you would be forced to exit the country once the Amnesty is over and apply again from scratch.

Hence the recommendation to do your 1-year extension of stay before the due date.

And in case you do not meet the requirements yet, you could as an intermediate step apply for the 60-day extension of stay to ensure an unbroken chain of extensions.

That's the great unknown. I have been advised however by a very well-known moderator here that a 60 day extension should be allowed just before or when the Amnesty ends even if one's actual permission to stay expired after the end of March and is therefore on the automatic covid extension.

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Do we know if they will add 60 to the date of application?  In other words, will they add 60 to the "auotmatic covid extension"? 

 

I already used my 60 before the July 31 rule (blocked by "undocumented requirements" for the 1-year), so doesn't help me - but even if I had not used that 60-day, I would not count on this being an option.

  

Note that "meeting the requirements for a 1 year extension" includes whatever "unpublished requirements" they tack on.  Many of us are on Multi-Non-Os ONLY because of the "unpublished requirements," to spite meeting every "official requirement" to the letter.

 

Anyone wanting to avail themselves of a 1-year extension should apply ASAP, and find out what the full rule-set is at their office at present.  They seem to have periodic meetings to determine if envelope-money revenue is sufficient, and change the "unpublished requirements" to suit.

It seems you're a bit of a conspiracy theorist. If you meet the requirements for a 1 year extension based on for example marriage or retirement, then you will have your extension. I don't know what requirement you don't officially meet, but is that your immigration office's fault? 

[PST]

I got a 60 day extension of my NON O ME mid April, as i obviously couldn't leave to do a border run before it expired, and my next step is going for my first years extension based on marriage for about 7/8 years, later this week.

 

Will it be an easy going application due to the current situation, and not being able to leave to get a new NON O if refused, or am i going to be given the run around as i've been using NON O ME for years without extending, who knows????.

[falang1969]

To ten OP, yeah it is an issue.

I got my last Non "O" ME from HCMC. It's valid until Sept. However, I am a bit concerned about doing a border run when my current stamp runs out or post waiver 31st July, whichever is applicable. In my case, it will be 31st July.

My concerns are, will they let me back in? Will there be extra hoops eg. Covid tests, $100k insurance cover and anything else they dream up between now and then!

I could get a 60 day extension at Immigration, but that is not a long term solution if extra measures like above are bought in. Maybe they will change the rules for getting a Non "O" ME? They stopped them almost overnight from London, only a small step to stop them from elsewhere!

I personally like the Non "O" ME, it fits in with my lifestyle perfectly (no messing with immigration and going back and forth trying to meet the requirements eg. your photo didn't show your legs in the picture etc etc) BUT I am now thinking about the 1 year extension and bring over 400k could be the only real solution moving forward.

For me, it's not the money, it's the convenience of the Non "O" ME.....I think it's prudent to have a backup plan in these times!