Just Expected Too Much From Thais

[Pepe']

I can't speak for anyone else but I just expected much more from Thais.

It's simply this. I thought a society and culture steeped so deeply, in what to me is the most beautiful and sublime philosophy, Buddhism would behave much differently.

Naive I guess. All this good Thais bad Thais, good farang bad farang threads blah,blah,blah.

I just thought the Thais had one up on us. The "Four Nobel Truths" the "eight fold path."

What a wonderful template for mankind. Unfortunately these concepts now,IMHO, seem to be largely ignored by Thais.

I have spoken with Thai monks many times about this. Those that are close friends admit that most Thais pray for material things, cars, money,etc.

They don't pray for dharma, liberation from material desires, and nirvanna.

So the fault is mine. At the same time I admit I am sometimes angry or at least frustrated at the behaviour of people who are surrounded by wonderful temples, gorgeous Buddhas tons of monks.

Most just paying lip service to their wonderful philosophy when their real interest is how to rip you off.

Maybe not the best choice of words, sorry, but lets face it they are just interested in the buck like everyone else.

Again my mistake, i just expected more.

Fire away...

[MarkBKK]

I can't speak for anyone else but I just expected much more from Thais.

It's simply this. I thought a society and culture steeped so deeply, in what to me is the most beautiful and sublime philosophy, Buddhism would behave much differently.

Naive I guess. All this good Thais bad Thais, good farang bad farang threads blah,blah,blah.

I just thought the Thais had one up on us. The "Four Nobel Truths" the "eight fold path."

What a wonderful template for mankind. Unfortunately these concepts now,IMHO, seem to be largely ignored by Thais.

I have spoken with Thai monks many times about this. Those that are close friends admit that most Thais pray for material things, cars, money,etc.

They don't pray for dharma, liberation from material desires, and nirvanna.

So the fault is mine. At the same time I admit I am sometimes angry or at least frustrated at the behaviour of people who are surrounded by wonderful temples, gorgeous Buddhas tons of monks.

Most just paying lip service to their wonderful philosophy when their real interest is how to rip you off.

Maybe not the best choice of words, sorry, but lets face it they are just interested in the buck like everyone else.

Again my mistake, i just expected more.

Fire away...

Hold the front page!

''Thai people just like everyone else on the planet''

... shock, horror. Film at 11.

[jeebusjones]

I can understand what you're trying to say. After living here for nearly three years, I've come to find that the cultural differences between here and home (US) are not as great as I'd once imagined.

People here are often extremely materialistic and superficial, sometimes more than people back in the states. Many people here are obsessed with appearing to be hi-so and rich, with having the right mobile phone, car and luxury condo and blah blah blah.

I thought I'd escape that superficiality by coming here, but sadly I haven't. Now I've come to accept that this attitude exists everywhere in the world, it's just more obvious in some places than others.

[britmaveric]

Called being human - no one is perfect, so shant expect that from Thai(s), no matter the origins of enlightenment.

[Dr. Burrito]

I just find the whole notion of Buddishm being superior a funny notion anyway. Then take the mix of people and add that. I seriously doubt any group of people in anything but a 60 person village isolated from the entire world, television, ads, modern products and air-conditioning could meet your expectations.

Dr. B

[Pepe']

I can't speak for anyone else but I just expected much more from Thais.

It's simply this. I thought a society and culture steeped so deeply, in what to me is the most beautiful and sublime philosophy, Buddhism would behave much differently.

Naive I guess. All this good Thais bad Thais, good farang bad farang threads blah,blah,blah.

I just thought the Thais had one up on us. The "Four Nobel Truths" the "eight fold path."

What a wonderful template for mankind. Unfortunately these concepts now,IMHO, seem to be largely ignored by Thais.

I have spoken with Thai monks many times about this. Those that are close friends admit that most Thais pray for material things, cars, money,etc.

They don't pray for dharma, liberation from material desires, and nirvanna.

So the fault is mine. At the same time I admit I am sometimes angry or at least frustrated at the behaviour of people who are surrounded by wonderful temples, gorgeous Buddhas tons of monks.

Most just paying lip service to their wonderful philosophy when their real interest is how to rip you off.

Maybe not the best choice of words, sorry, but lets face it they are just interested in the buck like everyone else.

Again my mistake, i just expected more.

Fire away...

Hold the front page!

''Thai people just like everyone else on the planet''

... shock, horror. Film at 11.

-------------------

Cute and brilliant.

[Pepe']

I can understand what you're trying to say. After living here for nearly three years, I've come to find that the cultural differences between here and home (US) are not as great as I'd once imagined.

People here are often extremely materialistic and superficial, sometimes more than people back in the states. Many people here are obsessed with appearing to be hi-so and rich, with having the right mobile phone, car and luxury condo and blah blah blah.

I thought I'd escape that superficiality by coming here, but sadly I haven't. Now I've come to accept that this attitude exists everywhere in the world, it's just more obvious in some places than others.

---------------------

We're on the same page. I've been comming to Thailand since 1974 and have Thai family.

Your observations are spot on.

[Pepe']

Called being human - no one is perfect, so shant expect that from Thai(s), no matter the origins of enlightenment.

[/quote

-----------------

I have to agree, reluctantly.

As I said it's just my mistake. I expected more from those with a foundation od Buddhism.

[Pepe']

I just find the whole notion of Buddishm being superior a funny notion anyway. Then take the mix of people and add that. I seriously doubt any group of people in anything but a 60 person village isolated from the entire world, television, ads, modern products and air-conditioning could meet your expectations.

Dr. B

-------------------------

I never said Buddhism was superior. I said it was beautiful and sublime.

I just thought persons who where steeped in this philosophy would be further evolved.

I don't have expectations, I have dreams.

[BFD]

Really, if any of the Five major religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism) were to be completely followed in spirit by a nation, that nation would be an ideal place to live. All the Five Big Ones have, at their core, a concept of equality and a desire for peace.

It is usually either people that skew the foundations of the religion, or take the writings entirely too literally, that give it all a bad name.

This is all, of course, my own opinion, but I think it would be equally fair for a Thai person to look at the Christian section of the West and say, "How the hel_l did you screw that up with such a fine foundation?" Or, looking at Yala, saying largely the same thing.

Bottom line is, we're all flawed folks.

BFD!

[ThaiGoon]

Hold the front page!

''Thai people just like everyone else on the planet''

... shock, horror. Film at 11.

[blizzard]

tons of monks?

one can never have enuff monks.

[Mobi]

Sad though it may be, is there any religion anywhere in the world that has not been perverted and twisted to suit the needs and desires of the practitioners?

I too once thought Buddhism was a bit different - maybe it is - but like all the others, it just becomes a tool for those in control. No different to Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, or any other religion you care to name.

You may find a form of paradise in Thailand, but I doubt you will ever find Nirvana.

[Dr. Burrito]

I just find the whole notion of Buddishm being superior a funny notion anyway. Then take the mix of people and add that. I seriously doubt any group of people in anything but a 60 person village isolated from the entire world, television, ads, modern products and air-conditioning could meet your expectations.

Dr. B

-------------------------

I never said Buddhism was superior. I said it was beautiful and sublime.

I just thought persons who where steeped in this philosophy would be further evolved.

I don't have expectations, I have dreams.

Well, viva la dreams for sure. I just think its too much to expect of any society with so many have-nots that have such wealth stuck into their nose on a daily basis. For sure, the wealthy group will be the last to seek that enlightenment as it might mean letting go of some of that wealth.

But cheers to you nonetheless and hope you are right in the future.

[Dakhar]

I have found Asian cultures to be more concerned about giving the appearence of money (saving face) than that of the US. But maybe that is is just my exposure to growing up in Hickville USA, where we were excited if the boat floated rather than excited by how many Hp that baby could churn out.

But one just has to get on the toll way and count how many fake M3 and M5 there are on the road, to get the feeling of the deep desire to show off. I pitty them when I see those on the road. If I had an M3 here, I'd take the badge off!

[undercover]

How many Thais go and pray for their Buddha to take away all their worldly possesions ?

How many farang came here to do the same.

[Dakhar]

How many Thais go and pray for their Buddha to take away all their worldly possesions ?

How many farang came here to do the same.

Well if the Buddha or anyone else wanted them, they can have them. Although, I don't think could fit my clothes.

[helicoptor]

I cannot comment on the Thais buddhism culture

as I am a Catholic and they are the largest hypocrites - JMO

Christian Brothers in the 50's Ireland ...

The best representation of Catholicism in the last 10 years has been 'Father Ted'

[ThaiGoon]

I cannot comment on the Thais buddhism culture

as I am a Catholic and they are the largest hypocrites - JMO

Christian Brothers in the 50's Ireland ...

The best representation of Catholicism in the last 10 years has been 'Father Ted'

Not to mention Pat Robertson....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can't speak for anyone else but I just expected much more from Thais.

It's simply this. I thought a society and culture steeped so deeply, in what to me is the most beautiful and sublime philosophy, Buddhism would behave much differently.

Naive I guess. All this good Thais bad Thais, good farang bad farang threads blah,blah,blah.

I just thought the Thais had one up on us. The "Four Nobel Truths" the "eight fold path."

What a wonderful template for mankind. Unfortunately these concepts now,IMHO, seem to be largely ignored by Thais.

I have spoken with Thai monks many times about this. Those that are close friends admit that most Thais pray for material things, cars, money,etc.

They don't pray for dharma, liberation from material desires, and nirvanna.

So the fault is mine. At the same time I admit I am sometimes angry or at least frustrated at the behaviour of people who are surrounded by wonderful temples, gorgeous Buddhas tons of monks.

Most just paying lip service to their wonderful philosophy when their real interest is how to rip you off.

Maybe not the best choice of words, sorry, but lets face it they are just interested in the buck like everyone else.

Again my mistake, i just expected more.

Fire away...

Hold the front page!

''Thai people just like everyone else on the planet''

... shock, horror. Film at 11.

[Maizefarmer]

I can't speak for anyone else but I just expected much more from Thais.

It's simply this. I thought a society and culture steeped so deeply, in what to me is the most beautiful and sublime philosophy, Buddhism would behave much differently.

Naive I guess. All this good Thais bad Thais, good farang bad farang threads blah,blah,blah.

I just thought the Thais had one up on us. The "Four Nobel Truths" the "eight fold path."

What a wonderful template for mankind. Unfortunately these concepts now,IMHO, seem to be largely ignored by Thais.

I have spoken with Thai monks many times about this. Those that are close friends admit that most Thais pray for material things, cars, money,etc.

They don't pray for dharma, liberation from material desires, and nirvanna.

So the fault is mine. At the same time I admit I am sometimes angry or at least frustrated at the behaviour of people who are surrounded by wonderful temples, gorgeous Buddhas tons of monks.

Most just paying lip service to their wonderful philosophy when their real interest is how to rip you off.

Maybe not the best choice of words, sorry, but lets face it they are just interested in the buck like everyone else.

Again my mistake, i just expected more.

Fire away...

Pepe

Thai's are no different to humans elsewhere - and any idea or perception held, usualy reflects that persons pre-concieved ideas - ideas that are often far from reality and based on some or other artical read, and/or an inability to speak to a Thai as they would be able to speak to someone who spoke their mother tongue (English ?)

A conversation held between two Thai's listend in on by someone who speaks Thai fluently , and who then compares that conversation with a conversation held between 2 english speaking people (or German, or French or any other language .....) will find little to no differance in how language is used. In other words, taking the Thai language out of the equation - you could just as well be listening to 2 Germans, or 2 Frenchman speaking - you would percieve no differance, and unless the conversation touched on a cultural subject (e.g. religion, burial ritual, marrige or similar) you would not be able to draw from that conversation the fact that they were Thai any more so than you'd be able to define nationality or cultural practise in respect of a different nationality or culture. You would not know the diff.

I use communication to make the point, because it is through communicating with someone (speaking to or listening to) that a change in our intitial ideas about them as a person or a people take place.

However much most people are reluctant to admitt it, they often harbour a preconcieved idea about Thai's (or other nationalities we cannot understand) which is usualy wrong. I was guilty of this as well as - it took me many years to shake off that conditioning, and to understand that they are no different in day to day life than persons from any other culture are.

There culture and the practise of Buddhism is as relivant in day to day life for the average Thai, as is culuture and religion to the average Christian in his day to life (and the words Buddhism and Christianity and be replaced with the words Asian and Westerner if you wish - the same thing applies).

The point is: while I see where your argument is coming from, you are as wrong to define the average Thai against the background of the criteria you used, as it would be to define a Westener against the background of Christianity or any cultural practise that applied to the country he came from.

MF

Edited April 18, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[kmart]

The purpose of most religions is to curb the worst excesses of human nature in society. That they have all been commandeered by the people they should rightfully legislate against is also a given nowadays.

The first impulse of the newly-rich is to flaunt their wealth, as they can remember being poor.

[GuestHouse]

This post echoes my own sentiments.

I often post the observation that to view a race/nationality as being wholly good is as unfounded as to view a race/nationality as wholly bad. You can add 'followers of a religion' to that line of argument.

With respects to Buddhism, my usual response to people who express these views of the perfect religion of bliss and peace, is to suggest they remove their Saffron Tinted Sunglasses. As with all religions, there is a huge gap between theory and practice.

I think misunderstanding occurs because people do like to simplify issues; the idea that there exists a society, culture or religion that is above and removed from the problems of our own society and lives (where ever we are from) is appealing, but patently nonsense.

Another problem is the superficial understanding most people naturally have when they first arrive in a new country (some of course do not progress beyond that superficial understanding).

And then there is the whole ‘Publicity Thing’, the promotion of Thai culture as being smiling and benign. Too many are happy, for all the reasons above, the accept this without question.

Thai Culture is neither totally perfect or totally imperfect.

If it is not what you believed it to be, then it is your initial thinking that has lead you astray.

Edit (removed comment on westerners missunderstaning Buddhism - It was a bit off topic)

Edited April 18, 2007 by GuestHouse

[jeebusjones]

I cannot comment on the Thais buddhism culture

as I am a Catholic and they are the largest hypocrites - JMO

Christian Brothers in the 50's Ireland ...

The best representation of Catholicism in the last 10 years has been 'Father Ted'

Not to mention Pat Robertson....

Pat Robertson isn't Catholic.

[CymruAmByth]

tons of monks?

one can never have enuff monks.

I think 'ton' is the correct collective noun for monks (plural).

[sunshine13]

how much did she take you for pepe?

[GuestHouse]

There culture and the practise of Buddhism is as relivant in day to day life for the average Thai, as is culuture and religion to the average Christian in his day to life (and the words Buddhism and Christianity and be replaced with the words Asian and Westerner if you wish - the same thing applies).

The point is: while I see where your argument is coming from, you are as wrong to define the average Thai against the background of the criteria you used, as it would be to define a Westener against the background of Christianity or any cultural practise that applied to the country he came from.

Firstly I think you hugely underestimate the extent to which Buddhism is a part of the life of most Thais.

And secondly I think you underestimate the extent to which Christianity has and still does influence your own Western life. Western law, morality, philosphy, litterature, language and art are all saturated with Christian teaching.

[sceadugenga]

There culture and the practise of Buddhism is as relivant in day to day life for the average Thai, as is culuture and religion to the average Christian in his day to life (and the words Buddhism and Christianity and be replaced with the words Asian and Westerner if you wish - the same thing applies).

The point is: while I see where your argument is coming from, you are as wrong to define the average Thai against the background of the criteria you used, as it would be to define a Westener against the background of Christianity or any cultural practise that applied to the country he came from.

Firstly I think you hugely underestimate the extent to which Buddhism is a part of the life of most Thais.

And secondly I think you underestimate the extent to which Christianity has and still does influence your own Western life. Western law, morality, philosphy, litterature, language and art are all saturated with Christian teaching.

Well said GuestHouse, as a student of European Medieval History, which is simply the history of the rise of Christianity and it's influence on every aspect of society I know exactly what your talking about.

[sainarm]

Pepe; I think thais is not different from other nation if we said about human nature. if you want to know why we have many beautiful temples and monks but we learn only few thing from our religion. pls read http://www.suanmokkh.org/

Maybe his present and thought can make you know why people in this world is not different in human desire.

i would like to advise a book of Arjarn Cha is NO Arjarn Cha, it's a dhamma book and good for reading.

hope you can understand more our thais.

[Thai-Spy]

There culture and the practise of Buddhism is as relivant in day to day life for the average Thai, as is culuture and religion to the average Christian in his day to life (and the words Buddhism and Christianity and be replaced with the words Asian and Westerner if you wish - the same thing applies).

The point is: while I see where your argument is coming from, you are as wrong to define the average Thai against the background of the criteria you used, as it would be to define a Westener against the background of Christianity or any cultural practise that applied to the country he came from.

Firstly I think you hugely underestimate the extent to which Buddhism is a part of the life of most Thais.

And secondly I think you underestimate the extent to which Christianity has and still does influence your own Western life. Western law, morality, philosphy, litterature, language and art are all saturated with Christian teaching.

Well said GuestHouse, as a student of European Medieval History, which is simply the history of the rise of Christianity and it's influence on every aspect of society I know exactly what your talking about.

If you care to further the parallels, Thailand is still quite a long way from its Renaissance and Reformation. That is, if either is even possible in the age of mass media and for a strongly decentralized faith like Buddhism.