UK extends ban on evicting tenants during coronavirus outbreak

[Susco]

11 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

*Background checks  * Previous landlord checks * *Court order checks * *Income checks*

Landlords decision whether they are decent and honest people or not or whether they are just scammers 

And as a landlord you have access to all those details of course.

 

Ever heard about laws on the privacy?

[CorpusChristie]

13 minutes ago, Susco said:

And as a landlord you have access to all those details of course.

 

Ever heard about laws on the privacy?

Yes, can easily be done , its in the public domain for 3 out of the  four .

The last one , if they dont show their income and ability to pay .

Reject them .

As a landlord, you need to protect your own interests  

[DaRoadrunner]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The government has issued this moratorium to help both landlords and tenants. But it is obvious that you would rather tenants didn't receive this help and were ejected out onto the street. Leaving the landlords with an empty property which was yielding no income at all!

I do not see how it helps landlords. Actually, the Govt is helping themselves (as usual) by stopping people ending up on the streets and becoming a liability for Govt social services who have to rehouse them.

 

The Govt already helps tenants too much. They stopped estate agents from charging fees to tenants. result, the agent passed that loss on to the landlords.

 

There is inadequate protection for landlords whose tenants fail to pay rent. Taking them to court is costly and time consuming, during which time you are receiving no rent .... and then the tenant does a runner or pays just one months rent and this stops the whole process again.

 

Fortunately one can insure against non payment of rent and for court costs.

 

Try being a landlord, when compared to the cost of purchasing the property, the landlord only makes a small percentage. He has endless outgoings for maintenance / repairs, tax, agents fees.

Edited June 6, 2020 by DaRoadrunner

[HauptmannUK]

4 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

I do not see how it helps landlords. Actually, the Govt is helping themselves (as usual) by stopping people ending up on the streets and becoming a liability for Govt social services who have to rehouse them.

 

The Govt already helps tenants too much. They stopped estate agents from charging fees to tenants. result, the agent passed that loss on to the landlords.

 

There is inadequate protection for landlords whose tenants fail to pay rent. Taking them to court is costly and time consuming, during which time you are receiving no rent .... and then the tenant does a runner or pays just one months rent and this stops the whole process again.

 

Fortunately one can insure against non payment of rent and for court costs.

 

Try being a landlord, when compared to the cost of purchasing the property, the landlord only makes a small percentage. He has endless outgoings for maintenance / repairs, tax, agents fees.

Yes this is true. Been there and got the tee shirt. After taxes, fees, maintenance etc there is not a lot left. Barely worth the stress of it.

[Trillian]

I let my flat several months ago before leaving the UK for a two year secondment, the tenant, a women of 65 years had said she wanted to remain for the full term. As soon as the virus struck she wrote to say that government had told her not to work because she is a shielded person, a previous kidney transplant patient apparently. Because they were unusual times I told her she could stay in the flat and pay what she could afford until things settled down and the way forward made more clear.

 

The estate agent who was handling  a fully managed let wrote to say she could not afford anything so there would be no rent, the agent however still wanted their monthly fee to manage the property and the tenant. Leaving the tenant in place at zero rent meant the flat would be occupied and I would not have to pay utility bills and Council Tax so not a total loss.

 

Last week the agent wrote to say the tenant had moved out, no notice and the place is a mess, she's lived there virtually rent free for six months and left me with a large cleaning bill.

 

Not being able to evict tennats is a double edged sword, it's good for some but lousy for many, the laws designed to protect tenants have swung too far in their favour, those evil landlords must be made to pay and to suffer, apparently.

[CharlieH]

5 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I let my flat several months ago before leaving the UK for a two year secondment, the tenant, a women of 65 years had said she wanted to remain for the full term. As soon as the virus struck she wrote to say that government had told her not to work because she is a shielded person, a previous kidney transplant patient apparently. Because they were unusual times I told her she could stay in the flat and pay what she could afford until things settled down and the way forward made more clear.

 

The estate agent who was handling  a fully managed let wrote to say she could not afford anything so there would be no rent, the agent however still wanted their monthly fee to manage the property and the tenant. Leaving the tenant in place at zero rent meant the flat would be occupied and I would not have to pay utility bills and Council Tax so not a total loss.

 

Last week the agent wrote to say the tenant had moved out, no notice and the place is a mess, she's lived there virtually rent free for six months and left me with a large cleaning bill.

 

Not being able to evict tennats is a double edged sword, it's good for some but lousy for many, the laws designed to protect tenants have swung too far in their favour, those evil landlords must be made to pay and to suffer, apparently.

Very unfortunate, I hope you had video or pics of reported mess etc and that the agent wasnt scamming you too!

Disgraceful that you showed compassion etc and were then treated like that.

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 What on earth does the Freedom of Movement Directive have to do with a database of bad tenants, or landlords come to that?

 

Nothing!

 

There are various 'bad tenant' databases: such as The Tenant Registry

Bit hard establishing a database of people's debt history who,'ve just arrived in a country,would have thought that would have been obvious,

[simple1]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Bit hard establishing a database of people's debt history who,'ve just arrived in a country,would have thought that would have been obvious,

There will always be some exceptions, IMO you're just nit picking. In my experience moving from one Western country to another landlord / agent will ask for proof of funds or additional deposit.

 

On another matter raised in this topic, surely property maintenance, agents fees etc are tax deductible. Plus when buying investment property don't people work out return on funds prior to buying? I bet the same people arguing for government assistance for property income loss will be the first to whine when taxes are increased to cover the debt.

Edited June 7, 2020 by simple1

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Bit hard establishing a database of people's debt history who,'ve just arrived in a country,would have thought that would have been obvious,

Dont accept them as tenants then , or require them to have a guarantor , someone who will pay the rent if they default 

[BritManToo]

28 minutes ago, simple1 said:

On another matter raised in this topic, surely property maintenance, agents fees etc are tax deductible. Plus when buying investment property don't people work out return on funds prior to buying? I bet the same people arguing for government assistance for property income loss will be the first to whine when taxes are increased to cover the debt.

If the government hadn't stepped in to stop non-payers being evicted, there wouldn't be a problem.

Landlords aren't social workers, and if the government wants them to be, the government should pay for it.

The lost rent is never going to be repaid.

Edited June 7, 2020 by BritManToo

[simple1]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

If the government hadn't stepped in to stop non-payers being evicted, there wouldn't be a problem.

Landlords aren't social workers, and if the government wants them to be, the government should pay for it.

Lost rent is never going to be repaid.

It has been estimated that if HMG hadn't 'stepped in' there would have been hundreds of thousands of eviction proceedings starting about now; the negative impact on society would have been enormous. Currently there are around 6 million renters, with 4.5 million tenants with private landlords. With the eviction ban extended until end August it provides time for HMG to work with relevant parties for a reasonable solution.

Edited June 7, 2020 by simple1

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

It has been estimated that if HMG hadn't 'stepped in' there would have been hundreds of thousands of eviction proceedings starting about now; the negative impact on society would have been enormous. Currently there are around 6 million renters, with 4.5 million tenants with private landlords. With the eviction ban extended until end August it provides time for HMG to work with relevant parties for a reasonable solution.

It's really up to the government to provide welfare.

If you think private landlords should give free housing .... then why not have banks give free money, supermarkets give free food, and utilities give free electricity and water?

 

Saying, sorry can't afford to pay you the rent is OK, so why isn't filling your shopping trolley and saying at the checkout, sorry I can't pay but I'm taking the food anyway OK?

 

Why just pick on one part of the private sector to lose money?

Edited June 7, 2020 by BritManToo

[Trillian]

57 minutes ago, simple1 said:

It has been estimated that if HMG hadn't 'stepped in' there would have been hundreds of thousands of eviction proceedings starting about now; the negative impact on society would have been enormous. Currently there are around 6 million renters, with 4.5 million tenants with private landlords. With the eviction ban extended until end August it provides time for HMG to work with relevant parties for a reasonable solution.

In my case it was forbidden to evict the tenant, not that I would have, but she didn't pay rent and then did a runner. That's not a reasonable solution, how is HMG going to help me?

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Trillian said:

In my case it was forbidden to evict the tenant, not that I would have, but she didn't pay rent and then did a runner. That's not a reasonable solution, how is HMG going to help me?

I've got to say renting to a sick elderly woman in the Uk was never going to be a good idea.

She's got to have been the worst risk in the history of renting.

[Trillian]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've got to say renting to a sick elderly woman in the Uk was never going to be a good idea.

She's got to have been the worst risk in the history of renting.

 

The estate agent vetted her and she came up trumps in every respect, previous references, financially, no CCJ's etc.....there was no mention of her being a shielded person or being ill in any way, she worked full time at a care home until the virus struck.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Trillian said:

 

The estate agent vetted her and she came up trumps in every respect, previous references, financially, no CCJ's etc.....there was no mention of her being a shielded person or being ill in any way, she worked full time at a care home until the virus struck.

Get a new agent.

Elderly single women are the worst tenants in the world.

65 and working in a care home = minimum wage worker, there were always going to be problems around the corner.

 

I always preferred students, usually left a mess, but paid a term in advance, and you could put the rent up for the new student next year.

Edited June 7, 2020 by BritManToo

[simple1]

 

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

In my case it was forbidden to evict the tenant, not that I would have, but she didn't pay rent and then did a runner. That's not a reasonable solution, how is HMG going to help me?

Here in Australia those who were working. but about to loose their job due to Covid situation e.g. restaurants are guaranteed $750.00 p.w. by government which is passed on by the employer for six months. If a business ceases trading altogether will have to go on the dole. Those unemployed are paid an extra $250 p.w. for 6 months as no work around. Evictions are on hold, but given the foregoing hopefully the most will do the right thing and pay their rent. Welfare is not available for non residents such as overseas students, working holiday visa holders. If they don't pay rent it will be challenging to rent another property as there is a national database for defaulters / evicted renters.  Commercial renters have been provided guidance by government. e.g. if their revenue has dropped by 30% property owner to pass on a 30% reduction in rent. i.e. we are all in this together. My wife works for a restaurant and the scenario I mention has actually happened for local businesses. If I remember correctly if property owners refuse to assist and are reported they can expect a visit from tax authorities.

 

Government debt has increased dramatically, accordingly I assume there will be changes to taxation. Someone said government should pay all extra costs incurred during Covid. OK, but HMG outlays will have to be paid by taxpayers by one means or another or reduction in government services.

[Sujo]

24 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Here in Australia those who were working. but about to loose their job due to Covid situation e.g. restaurants are guaranteed $750.00 p.w. by government which is passed on by the employer for six months. If a business ceases trading altogether will have to go on the dole. Those unemployed are paid an extra $250 p.w. for 6 months as no work around. Evictions are on hold, but given the foregoing hopefully the most will do the right thing and pay their rent. Welfare is not available for non residents such as overseas students, working holiday visa holders. If they don't pay rent it will be challenging to rent another property as there is a national database for defaulters / evicted renters.  Commercial renters have been provided guidance by government. e.g. if their revenue has dropped by 30% property owner to pass on a 30% reduction in rent. i.e. we are all in this together. My wife works for a restaurant and the scenario I mention has actually happened for local businesses. If I remember correctly if property owners refuse to assist and are reported they can expect a visit from tax authorities.

 

Government debt has increased dramatically, accordingly I assume there will be changes to taxation. Someone said government should pay all extra costs incurred during Covid. OK, but HMG outlays will have to be paid by taxpayers by one means or another or reduction in government services.

Also can dip into the super for $10k now and 10k in august.

[BobBKK]

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 What about her tenant who has had to close their small business to follow lockdown and has had no income coming in and lives with their elderly parent? How will throwing them out help Mrs. Smith?

If living with elderly parent they are not my tenant are they? Mrs Smith let the house in good faith and it's not her fault if her tenants circumstances change. You stay in a hotel you have to pay right?

[7by7]

18 hours ago, kingdong said:

On your first point the landlord is renting the property as a business they,'re not a charity,too many people have got into"but to let" and rely on the rent to pay the mortgage on the property,the lenders won,t be as generous to the borrower as you feel they should be to the tenant.The UK is overcrowded and this shows in the shortage of affordable housing,and last but not least there's always two sides to an argument not just yours.

 

Yes, the landlord is renting the property as a business; whether they are a large corporation or a buy to let individual (most of whom have fairly large portfolios). So a moratorium on going to court and an arrangement so the arrears can be paid makes more sense than evicting the tenant and having the property empty and producing no income until a new tenant can be found.

 

But remember, this is not a moratorium on paying rent; it is a moratorium on going to court if the tenant cannot pay their rent. 

 

From the OP: "The government said landlords and tenants should work together and exhaust all possible options, such as flexible payment plans, to ensure cases only end up in court as an absolute last resort."

 

I don't have a mortgage; but I have seen the TV and press adverts from most mortgage lenders about how they can help borrowers with their mortgages at this time. Large corporations probably won't get such help, but individuals probably would. All the borrower has to do is talk to their lender and come  to an agreement. How come you don't know about this?

 

Yes, there is a shortage of affordable housing; particularly in London and the South East where I live. How is that relevant?

 

Yes, there are at least two sides to every argument; but it seems you object to me putting mine!

[7by7]

8 hours ago, kingdong said:

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

What on earth does the Freedom of Movement Directive have to do with a database of bad tenants, or landlords come to that?

 

Nothing!

 

There are various 'bad tenant' databases: such as The Tenant Registry

Bit hard establishing a database of people's debt history who,'ve just arrived in a country,would have thought that would have been obvious,

 

Which would apply to immigrants from anywhere, not just the EU. It would also apply to British citizens who have lived here all their lives but never rented before, who almost certainly make up the majority of new tenants.

 

The FoM is completely irrelevant here and you're clutching at straws.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

<snip>

On another matter raised in this topic, surely property maintenance, agents fees etc are tax deductible. 

They are. From a major UK estate agent:

Quote

What expenses are allowable?

Some examples of allowable expenses are:

General maintenance and repair costs

Water rates, council tax and gas and electricity bills (if paid by you as the landlord)

Insurance (landlords’ policies for buildings, contents, etc)

Cost of services, e.g. cleaners, gardeners, ground rent

Agency and property management fees

 

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

Plus when buying investment property don't people work out return on funds prior to buying?

They should, and I'm sure most do. Those who don't are idiots.

Edited June 7, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

23 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 What about her tenant who has had to close their small business to follow lockdown and has had no income coming in and lives with their elderly parent? How will throwing them out help Mrs. Smith?

If living with elderly parent they are not my tenant are they? Mrs Smith let the house in good faith and it's not her fault if her tenants circumstances change. You stay in a hotel you have to pay right?

 If you did not want a tenant moving in and bringing their elderly parent with them, then you shouldn't have let to that person!

 

Like many here, you have completely missed the point.

 

I repeat my earlier quote from the OP: "The government said landlords and tenants should work together and exhaust all possible options, such as flexible payment plans, to ensure cases only end up in court as an absolute last resort."

 

So no one is saying that any arrears should not be paid. Why you and others think otherwise I have no idea; unless you didn't read the OP.

 

BTW, if I stay in a hotel, I don't pay until I move out. Would you let your tenants do that?

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, simple1 said:

There will always be some exceptions, IMO you're just nit picking. In my experience moving from one Western country to another landlord / agent will ask for proof of funds or additional deposit.

 

On another matter raised in this topic, surely property maintenance, agents fees etc are tax deductible. Plus when buying investment property don't people work out return on funds prior to buying? I bet the same people arguing for government assistance for property income loss will be the first to whine when taxes are increased to cover the debt.

Trouble with nits?don,t scratch them kill them for a long term solution.

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Which would apply to immigrants from anywhere, not just the EU. It would also apply to British citizens who have lived here all their lives but never rented before, who almost certainly make up the majority of new tenants.

 

The FoM is completely irrelevant here and you're clutching at straws.

So you,'re recommending landlords shouldn,t let a property to immigrants?

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, the landlord is renting the property as a business; whether they are a large corporation or a buy to let individual (most of whom have fairly large portfolios). So a moratorium on going to court and an arrangement so the arrears can be paid makes more sense than evicting the tenant and having the property empty and producing no income until a new tenant can be found.

 

But remember, this is not a moratorium on paying rent; it is a moratorium on going to court if the tenant cannot pay their rent. 

 

From the OP: "The government said landlords and tenants should work together and exhaust all possible options, such as flexible payment plans, to ensure cases only end up in court as an absolute last resort."

 

I don't have a mortgage; but I have seen the TV and press adverts from most mortgage lenders about how they can help borrowers with their mortgages at this time. Large corporations probably won't get such help, but individuals probably would. All the borrower has to do is talk to their lender and come  to an agreement. How come you don't know about this?

 

Yes, there is a shortage of affordable housing; particularly in London and the South East where I live. How is that relevant?

 

Yes, there are at least two sides to every argument; but it seems you object to me putting mine!

Any ideas where I can buy a set of rose tinted spectacles?

[kingdong]

8 hours ago, Trillian said:

In my case it was forbidden to evict the tenant, not that I would have, but she didn't pay rent and then did a runner. That's not a reasonable solution, how is HMG going to help me?

They,'re not,you,'ve been knocked.

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, kingdong said:

So you,'re recommending landlords shouldn,t let a property to immigrants?

 

I suppose somewhere in the deep recesses of your brain you've managed to find justification for this absurd comment.

 

I also mentioned first time renters who are British in the post; why haven't you accused me of saying the same about them?

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Any ideas where I can buy a set of rose tinted spectacles?

No, but I've said where you can find the facts about this subject, including a quote from the OP!

 

Once you've got those spectacles, try reading them!

[kingdong]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No, but I've said where you can find the facts about this subject, including a quote from the OP!

 

Once you've got those spectacles, try reading them!

Read,em? Thought the idea was to wear them like you obviously do.