Thai doctor slams WHO over U-turn on face masks

[Airbagwill]

7 minutes ago, sahibji said:

that is precisely what president trump is saying: that WHO did not collect the correct information from source and disseminate it to the world, resulting in the chaos to world economy and population.

What an absolutely baseless and uninformed comment.

 

[Logosone]

In this study they traced 455 contacts of an asymptomatic carrier. Not a single one was infected with the virus.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/

 

So if asymptomatic carriers do not spread the virus in significant numbers the effective use of a mask is close to zero in terms of Covid19 prevention.

 

The gloating of this Thai doctor is clearly misplaced. He is wrong about wearing masks.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Logosone

[steelepulse]

I'm trying to figure out why if someone has been staying at home for 3 months and not had contact with anyone, why they should wear a mask in an area that has had no covid cases for a month.  Doesn't make sense.  Why not social distance if someone in this situation is worried about it?

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

I'm trying to figure out why if someone has been staying at home for 3 months and not had contact with anyone, why they should wear a mask in an area that has had no covid cases for a month.  Doesn't make sense.  Why not social distance if someone in this situation is worried about it?

Yup, mask-believers should just stay at home if they're so worried. No law requires them to go out.

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

But, I can not go to the store, or mall, or park, or anywhere in my condo without wearing a mask, so Is this doctor trying to say Thailand was misinformed in the beginning and only now the WHO says to wear one.  So f.......confused.  Must I wear a condom when I have sex with my wife, or has the WHO said I do not need one....

The WHO says masks are not needed,not the other way around. The Provincial Governors decides if masks are mandatory or not, not the WHO or the Thai government. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Yup, mask-believers should just stay at home if they're so worried. No law requires them to go out.

So you are still posting cr_p regarding folk making an effort.????

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

This Thai doctor could be very wrong.

 

Latest data suggests that asymptomatic carriers rarely spread the virus. As such the initial position of the WHO was correct and wearing masks is unnecessary.

 

Study of 455 contacts of one asymptomatic carrier found not a single one was infected:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/

 

"We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward. It is very rare -- and much of that is not published in the literature," she said. 

 

"We are constantly looking at this data and we're trying to get more information from countries to truly answer this question. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html

 

Yeh great post linking to older reports from CHINA (as if we can trust any of their reports) and a link to the WHO which is what this topic is about that they come out and say one thing (in this case asyptomatic spread is unlikely) and now come out and say it's possible , same as them changing thier postion on masks first saying not neeeded now saying they help.

[Traubert]

6 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Yeh great post linking to older reports from CHINA (as if we can trust any of their reports) and a link to the WHO which is what this topic is about that they come out and say one thing (in this case asyptomatic spread is unlikely) and now come out and say it's possible , same as them changing thier postion on masks first saying not neeeded now saying they help.

Why cant you trust Chinese reports?

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, thesetat2013 said:

You better wear one. She told me yesterday about making you do it. I always wear one with her 

At least she is making the smart move I see. Grateful she is making me money to keep me in beer and cigs along with buying me more eggstainer wife beater tank tops....

 

[ThailandRyan]

15 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The WHO says masks are not needed,not the other way around. The Provincial Governors decides if masks are mandatory or not, not the WHO or the Thai government. 

Oh Max, its ok to miss sarcasm now and then..

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Yup, mask-believers should just stay at home if they're so worried. No law requires them to go out.

Gasp, shriek, anti-maskers.....lol

[wazzupnow]

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

But, I can not go to the store, or mall, or park, or anywhere in my condo without wearing a mask, so Is this doctor trying to say Thailand was misinformed in the beginning and only now the WHO says to wear one.  So f.......confused.  Must I wear a condom when I have sex with my wife, or has the WHO said I do not need one....

show me a picture of your wife, i will let you know if you need a condom or not 555

[Miami007]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

This Thai doctor could be very wrong.

 

Latest data suggests that asymptomatic carriers rarely spread the virus. As such the initial position of the WHO was correct and wearing masks is unnecessary.

 

Study of 455 contacts of one asymptomatic carrier found not a single one was infected:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/

 

"We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward. It is very rare -- and much of that is not published in the literature," she said. 

 

"We are constantly looking at this data and we're trying to get more information from countries to truly answer this question. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html

 

That was the information on Monday - on Tuesday the WHO clarified - basically, they admitted that there is a lot about Coronavirus that they do not know... It now seems that asymptomatic carriers do transmit; they just don't know how.

But WHO is a mess, that is probably something everyone can agree on

 

I thought that wearing masks was a large part of why Asian countries were doing so much better than Europe / USA.  But then somebody posted earlier on TV that Australia and NZ were not using masks either and they have very low infection rates. 

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, wazzupnow said:

show me a picture of your wife, i will let you know if you need a condom or not 555

Yup, I guess I did kind of hijack the thread early on now.  But it is ok it still hit the point of Mask wearing, and now the Anti-Maskers have chimed in as well.  Old studies, instead of new data.  Data changing daily as well as those in power pivoting in circles, yes, no, yes, no...I just find this whole thing baffling.  Sometimes your freedom of choice is over-ridden by others in a position of power.  one way or another there is always an argument and statistics to back either side of controversy.  At the end of the day I know that I can smile and be happy, even if I get bashed or banned because of someone's dislike for a post or my opinion and view differs.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Sydebolle]

"This is not the first time the WHO has disagreed with disease control measures in Thailand"

In other words, would the WHO kindly consult with the Thai Ministry of Public Health first before going public with anything? 

Dr Manoon Leechawengwongs might not know that but the Health Ministry in Thailand has regretfully not the best possible boss; clown-in-chief Anutin hates non-Thais to start with and his rhetoric is known for that - go figure. 

These masks have been a thorn of discussion ever since and I, honestly, also doubt their effectiveness but wearing it does not do any harm. My attempt of putting some common sense into equation. 

[Logosone]

20 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Yeh great post linking to older reports from CHINA (as if we can trust any of their reports) and a link to the WHO which is what this topic is about that they come out and say one thing (in this case asyptomatic spread is unlikely) and now come out and say it's possible , same as them changing thier postion on masks first saying not neeeded now saying they help.

If a WHO employee goes public and admits that:

 

"From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual," Van Kerkhove said on Monday.

 

"We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward. It is very rare -- and much of that is not published in the literature," she said. "We are constantly looking at this data and we're trying to get more information from countries to truly answer this question. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html

 

This is indeed an embarassment for the WHO, because it had only a few days prior to that changed its stance on masks. However, of course if asymptomatic carriers do not spread the disease in significant numbers then clearly the wearing of masks is pointless. Thus the WHO's original position was correct and the recent U-Turn totally wrong.

 

The Chinese study is of course not the only study that indicates that asymptomatic carriers do not spread the virus in significant numbers.

 

Here is a selection of four studies that also show that asymptomatic carriers do not spread the virus in significant numbers:

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.10.20097543v2.full.pdf

 

 

[Grumpy John]

I do wear a mask when out shopping.  The security guards insist!  I carry it in my pocket and put it on at the shop....mainly because I  have trouble breathing with one on and the less time I have it on the better for me.           The biggest problem is with every good looking (potentially) woman wearing one it's not as rewarding playing the "Girlfriend game".  Without facial expressions to rely on you could be barking up the wrong tree! 

[Logosone]

11 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

That was the information on Monday - on Tuesday the WHO clarified - basically, they admitted that there is a lot about Coronavirus that they do not know... It now seems that asymptomatic carriers do transmit; they just don't know how.

But WHO is a mess, that is probably something everyone can agree on

 

I thought that wearing masks was a large part of why Asian countries were doing so much better than Europe / USA.  But then somebody posted earlier on TV that Australia and NZ were not using masks either and they have very low infection rates. 

Clearly what has happened is that Maria van Kerkhove honestly answered a question put to her and honestly said that studies do not show that asymptomatic carriers spread the virus in significant numbers and that reports from contract tracing bodies show that spread by asymptomatic carriers is very rare. This severely embarassed those WHO officials who had just reversed the mask stance of the WHO who then had a word with van Kerkhove. She was then made to 'water down' her strong initial statement.

 

However, she still maintains that spread by asymptomatic carriers is very rare, she merely said in principle they can and do spread the virus. Which is true, the highest estimate is 2.2%. That is of course a tiny figure and negligible.

[soalbundy]

Covid=19 just natures way of saying reduce your numbers and get rid of the old, it's not working out too well so I suppose nature will have to come up with something else, the Congo has Ebola and covid-19 so maybe it's a start. I for one think that pandemics are going to rise in numbers and ferocity, the Earth has had enough of us.

[barryofthailand]

The United States has stopped supporting the Who as President Trump strongly disagrees with them and was contributing more money than any other country. I think Thailand should do the same.  The Who is a mouth piece for china

[Miami007]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

The presymptomatics are not a new class. It has been known for some time that asymptomatics can develop symptoms later.

 

They were thus never true asymptomatics, but presymptomatic.

 

Indeed the WHO has now qualified the statement somewhat, but it still remains that there is hard evidence where asymptomatic carriers were examined, 455 of their contacts identified and not a single one had the virus. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7219423/

 

That van Kerkhove also said that:

 

"We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They're following asymptomatic cases, they're following contacts and they're not finding secondary transmission onward. It is very rare -- and much of that is not published in the literature," she said. "We are constantly looking at this data and we're trying to get more information from countries to truly answer this question. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html

 

is undeniable and very clear. Whilst the WHO are rowing back slightly as they await studies to fully confirm does not change the evidence above.

 

Indeed the WHO person stating that asymptomatic carriers very rarely transmit the virus was an embarassment for the WHO, as they had a few days previously reversed the advisory on masks. That their own people then make clear that asymptomatics actually almost never spread the virus must have been a bit embarassing, as it made the change of stance on masks wholly unnecessary.

The first study has more than 200 hospital staff among the 455 contacts. Actually, they took 1 confirmed COVID19 case and then checked 455 contacts of this person.  The hospital staff obviously had masks - this may be an indication that masks DO work.

Among the rest, 8 people got fever and respiratory disease - but did not test positive for COVID19. This means that about 4% of the contacts of this person developed "flu-like" symptoms (BTW, in the USA these 8 people would be "probable" COVID cases and included in the official statistics in several states).  

What we know is that many infected people have no or mild symptoms - we also know that tests are not 100% accurate.  This could well be a case of 1 single carrier who is passing on a low viral load to others, which does not trigger a positive test.

Making this study of 1 person the basis to claim that asymptomatic carriers do not infect others is the same as shutting down the world economy because 1 person in the UK predicted 600,000 deaths in the UK and 2.2 million deaths in the USA.  People love to shoot from the hip, don't they?

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Clearly what has happened is that Maria van Kerkhove honestly answered a question put to her and honestly said that studies do not show that asymptomatic carriers spread the virus in significant numbers and that reports from contract tracing bodies show that spread by asymptomatic carriers is very rare. This severely embarassed those WHO officials who had just reversed the mask stance of the WHO who then had a word with van Kerkhove. She was then made to 'water down' her strong initial statement.

 

However, she still maintains that spread by asymptomatic carriers is very rare, she merely said in principle they can and do spread the virus. Which is true, the highest estimate is 2.2%. That is of course a tiny figure and negligible.

Still beating a dead horse and continuing on.  Well Done

[mindfulness]

15 hours ago, Guderian said:

Most of the world seems to have got the message now, in spite of the WHO. That is, apart from the UK and USA, and all the idiots who think it's their democratic right to infect other people. 

One trusts you will be wearing a mask for life with that kind of logic then. 

In fact maybe best if you self isolate for life, or you could possibly infect some one unknowingly while being asymptomatic with the flu. 

JC ! What’s got into the psyche of shadow ego of folk. Love to know what your glowing example of was before this charade ? 

 

[Sujo]

I still wear a mask when out. I dont want to possibly give the virus to anyone, even if they dont care about giving it to me.

[Logosone]

10 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

 

Making this study of 1 person the basis to claim that asymptomatic carriers do not infect others is the same as shutting down the world economy because 1 person in the UK predicted 600,000 deaths in the UK and 2.2 million deaths in the USA.  People love to shoot from the hip, don't they?

That's not necessary, here is a scientific review of four other studies which all say the same, that asymptomatic transmission does not happen in large numbers.

 

Two studies found 0% transmission rate among asymptomatics.

 

One found 0.3%. One found 2.2%. Either way the studies confirmed that asymptomatic transmission is very rare.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.10.20097543v2.full.pdf

 

Thus the wearing of masks is about as necessary as wearing a snorkeling mask whilst driving.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Logosone

[ThailandRyan]

Waiting for the new advertisement from TAT. 

 

Medical Tourism, come to Thailand and have our surgeons surgically implant a retractable face mask above your ear, free PM 2.5 exchangeable filters included for life

[berrec]

WHO needs them; usless as tits on a bull!

[Time to grow]

The WHO is just another bureaucratic organization. It suffers from the same politics, corruption, and economic motivation that all the other organizations suffer from. If people haven't learned that these organizations are not trustworthy, if they haven't learned to think for themselves, then they deserve to be confused by the moving goalposts.

[Prairieboy]

16 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

But, I can not go to the store, or mall, or park, or anywhere in my condo without wearing a mask, so Is this doctor trying to say Thailand was misinformed in the beginning and only now the WHO says to wear one.  So f.......confused.  Must I wear a condom when I have sex with my wife, or has the WHO said I do not need one....

See the attached image.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Prairieboy

[tomauasia]

Agree with the doc..