How is it typically handled when the road leading to a waterfront property is not a public road?

[jakow]

My wife is considering some land near a waterfront. Nearby is a public concrete road, but there is about 60 meters of land between the road and the waterfront parcel, owned by the same owner, but which my wife is not interested in buying. On the sides is other land from a different owner. So basically the parcel she is interested is in only accessible by land which would not be hers. As we're not interested in traveling by boat, it seems this could be a dangerous situation for her if the other land owners for whatever reason decided they didn't want anyone using the road through their land. I would imagine this type of situation is quite common, especially with waterfront or beachfront properties, so is there some type of agreement that would actually hold up (I know... I know...) that people usually sign in this type of situation? Or how is it typically dealt with?

Edited June 10, 2020 by jakow

[worgeordie]

You must have access to your land,otherwise you will have to

get there by boat, can you not buy some land from the same

owner so you have access to your land,if he wants to sell the

first piece of land he should be  amicable  ,if not i would not

bother its going to cause you so many problems 

regards worgeordie

[Mavideol]

any property has the right to access thru other property, that's called easements, did you check with owner if there are any past agreements on that?

 

What Is an Easement?

An easement is a nonpossessory property interest. In other words, someone who holds an easement on your property has a legal right to some specified use of your land, but they do not have the right to actual possession of the property. A familiar example is a utility company that runs electric lines above your land. These easements are often not transferred by the owner of the property by deed, but rather created by law.

 

or also Access

In real property law, the term access denotes the right vested in the owner of the land that adjoins a road or other highway to go and return from his own land to the highway without obstruction. Access to property does not necessarily carry with it possession.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Mavideol

[JWRC]

I had the very same situation, and in the end negotiated a right of way which is also written on the title, see a lawyer before buying.

This right of way is permanently on the title and survives death and sale of property etc, all the things you need to be protected against.

Just make sure this right of way is big enough for you to get vehicles in, trucks etc if you are planning on building.

[jakow]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

any property has the right to access thru other property, that's called easements, did you check with owner if there are any past agreements on that?

 

What Is an Easement?

An easement is a nonpossessory property interest. In other words, someone who holds an easement on your property has a legal right to some specified use of your land, but they do not have the right to actual possession of the property. A familiar example is a utility company that runs electric lines above your land. These easements are often not transferred by the owner of the property by deed, but rather created by law.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was hoping existed. We didn't ask the owner about it yet, as we weren't even sure if this property was even worth considering since we didn't know about these easement laws.

Edited June 10, 2020 by jakow

[talahtnut]

Make sure you settle the right of way when

buying the land or it can become a 'ransome

strip' ie. they' will have you by the

'short and curlys'.

 

[Mavideol]

Just now, jakow said:

Thank you! This is exactly what I was hoping existed.

my friend in Krabi province had exactly the same problem and he went to the neighbor asking if any agreement about access existed and was told yes, he can not park on that piece of land but can travel thru it, they found a deed at the local amphur stating that access/right of access was granted but walk way only, no cars, tricycles or something like that but he's accessing it by foot, that's the draw back, if carrying heavy loads of anything he has to do it for around 30 meters before reaching the wider road.

[tifino]

 does (has) the owner paid for all road upkeep? 

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

any property has the right to access thru other property, that's called easements, did you check with owner if there are any past agreements on that?

 

What Is an Easement?

An easement is a nonpossessory property interest. In other words, someone who holds an easement on your property has a legal right to some specified use of your land, but they do not have the right to actual possession of the property. A familiar example is a utility company that runs electric lines above your land. These easements are often not transferred by the owner of the property by deed, but rather created by law.

 

or also Access

In real property law, the term access denotes the right vested in the owner of the land that adjoins a road or other highway to go and return from his own land to the highway without obstruction. Access to property does not necessarily carry with it possession.

An Easement grants access etc but it doesnt automatically exist. If an easement doesn't currently exsist it cant be forced into exsistance. There is no legal right to create or enforce an easement. just because you want access to a parcel of land. 

[Puchaiyank]

You get the land owner to agree to give you legal access to the property...an easement.  You do not own the land but can cut an access road (20-30 feet wide).

 

You need the easement surveyed...the easement description will become part of the deed to protect you.

 

Without an easement, the property has questionable value...don't do it!

 

Good Luck!

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There is no legal right to create or enforce an easement. just because you want access to a parcel of land. 

The guy 100% needs to consult lawyer.

In Oz I was building units/homes. 

It was very common particularly in rural areas where if access to certain land with title was through someones land and had been done for period of time (think 15 yrs) then it was referred to as right of way.

I have a block of 4 units in city of Bendigo where I there are 2 adjacent homes that can use my drive to access their homes.

I realize AU has nothing to do with Thailand.

[anterian]

An easement also should involve a damage clause. For example if you damage the surface with a heavy truck, you would be liable for the repair. 

[sanuk711]

Even if you have an easement agreement Jakow---it seems like a headache waiting to happen. Maybe that's why its a good (Cheap) buy. Is there not somewhere else you could settle on.

Edited June 10, 2020 by sanuk711

[Bob A Kneale]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

 can you not buy some land from the same

owner so you have access to your land

"...there is about 60 meters of land between the road and the waterfront parcel, owned by the same owner, but which my wife is not interested in buying".

[worgeordie]

15 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

"...there is about 60 meters of land between the road and the waterfront parcel, owned by the same owner, but which my wife is not interested in buying".

better buy a boat then,or a helicopter if you can afford it.

regards worgeordie

[northsouthdevide]

If I where you, I would negotiate a 2.5m strip of land running on the side of his land to give you access. 

If it's on your title deed, it's yours and you don't have to worry about future conflict. 

[jakow]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

An Easement grants access etc but it doesnt automatically exist. If an easement doesn't currently exsist it cant be forced into exsistance. There is no legal right to create or enforce an easement. just because you want access to a parcel of land. 

In our case the land we wish to travel on has the same owner as the land my wife is interested in buying, so I think he would be more accommodating in order to sell the property. If he won't put an easement into place I don't know who in their right mind would buy the land.

[1FinickyOne]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:53 PM, jakow said:

he parcel she is interested is in only accessible by land which would not be hers.

So, simply, you do not have legal access to your own land... what more needs to be said... even if you have a great neighbor who doesn't care and allow access, that is no guarantee for the future... 

 

If you do buy, which is crazy, then it should be well reflected in the price... you need to purchase access by buying a strip of land or risk the possibility that your land can be worthless... 

[Bender Rodriguez]

why not find a land without these problems... some people just love them

[Epidemiologist Dave]

If the owner of the access road sells you the land but not the access road what good is the road to him if the land either side is not owned by him? If I were him I would insist on selling the road and land as a package only. 

 

 

[khunPer]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, jakow said:

I would imagine this type of situation is quite common, especially with waterfront or beachfront properties, so is there some type of agreement that would actually hold up (I know... I know...) that people usually sign in this type of situation? Or how is it typically dealt with?

Yes, this is a common problem, you need "right of way",

 

I live beachfront, and it's a common problem where I live, so I have a bit of knowledge from around me, including my next door neighbor that is a real estate lawyer, and also the other of my two used lawyers.

 

According to my next door lawyer-neighbor you have "right of way" over someone else's land if you have been using the way uninterrupted for 10 years; however, you need it to be settled by servitude, or in court. If the access way at any time has been blocked, your 10-year term starts from a fresh.

 

Before you, or rather your wife, buys the waterfront land, she need to make an agreement with the owner, or one of the owners, of land between the waterfront plot and government road. Often, as it often is in Thailand, it's a question of some fee. I was once looking at a nice piece of land, and for right of way servitude, I would need to pay a fee. That "right of way"-agreement need to be agreed as a servitude to be legal binding; i.e. what happens if an owner of land used for way sells, and a new owner don't agree, and you have not used the right of way for 10 years?

 

If one has used right of way for 10 years, but the owner of the land don't agree in giving a servitude, you can open a civil court case. However, that won't help when buying land.

 

Some examples...

40 meter down the beach from me, a foreigner bought a relative large plot – relative large, as in some areas beachfront land can be quite expensive – and was promised by the seller to have right of way cleared. However, after paying – a relative high sum – for the land, the seller became less co-operative, and the new land-owner realized that way access would be through someone else's gate and through a garden; or another neighbor's gate and right through his water tower, as there were no other space to move it to. Both neighbor's were not interested in that kind of solution. The new land-owner ended suing everybody between his land, and the government road about 200 meters inland, and ended losing the case, because he had "no right of way". We don't know if he is appealing to a higher court.

 

It's hard to sell a land plot in "my area", as only one plot-owner has a "right of way"-servitude, and that covers that particular named title deed only, nobody else. My next door lawyer-neighbor wished to sell his property, and the buyer wished "right-of-way"-servitude, wherefore a part of the selling price were withheld until a servitude has been cleared. My next door neighbor waited for a full 10-year ownership period before selling, so he could claim right of way, but the other land-owner's wouldn't grant him that. As I have a servitude, made by my other lawyer, my next door lawyer-neighbor even hired my other lawyer to talk to the land-owners; so far – after more than a year – nothing has been cleared. The worst case scenario would be, if anybody block the way access before a court case is filed.

 

Earlier one land-owner did block the road to the beach – didn't like one of the other land owners – which resulted in that the other mentioned land-owner, who runs a hotel and therefore desperately need a way in, finally had to buy the blocking land-owner's plot for a quite high price, probably higher than "normal" market price. Today we all pay for maintenance of the road to the hotel-owner, probably little more than actual cost.

 

I'm not sure about the "easement" mentioned in another post. Where I live it seems like a private land-owner can claim that they don't want new, or more, electric wires to cross their land; but "easement" don't give anyone "right of way" according to the two lawyers I've been using.

Edited June 13, 2020 by khunPer

[gamesgplayemail]

 

Another one with a millionaire wife...

555... it's so famous how easy it is for most to find a wife who doesn't come from a bar or a farm...