2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

But that would be an inaccurate standard. Slavery was practiced by just about every single society throughout history at some point and it still goes on today, but by todays standards it is appalling and wrong, whereas 200-300 years ago and beyond was considered normal for whoever was the victor or the most powerful. It just was, denying it is denying history. 

And as wrong as that may be, that does not mean that a man 200-300 years ago who had slaves (normal at the time) and did 10,000 things that were good, should be de-personed and erased. It should stay and be a reminder if what once was, not erased and forgotten. 

 

 

????

Yes of course, we know the history of slavery, but your original comment didn't specify that, I was talking more broadly about "Figures with a chequered past"

 

It appears that you may not understand the word Hegemony, which is about dominance.

Equality of treatment and of opportunity for all people, which includes all races.

There is no contradiction here.

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not just in the past. The world is STILL not tolerant ( just look at why they are killing each other in Sth Sudan ) and racism still exists, except the racism I suffer from is not from white people.

Yeah its so difficult being a white person. We have to spend so much of our precious time trying to keep those darkies in their place.

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Evidence for that?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11862534/man-urinated-pc-memorial-slammed-by-dad/?utm_campaign=sunmainfacebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1592167453

 

  His Father says that he was there for the BLM protests and he had nothing to do with patriot groups and he was a 28 year old unemployed trainee chef , but anyway , he says he just needed a <deleted> and he didnt know the memorial was there and it wasnt intentional . Fair enough

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Yeah its so difficult being a white person. We have to spend so much of our previous time trying to keep those darkies in their place.

Terrible language , that isnt acceptable .

Calling Black people "darkies" is rude and wrong .

17 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes of course, we know the history of slavery, but your original comment didn't specify that, I was talking more broadly about "Figures with a chequered past"

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and using the worst possible case - slavery. 

If going by a simple 'checkered past' as the standard for de-personing people and history, then your position is even more absurd. 

 

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Yeah its so difficult being a white person. We have to spend so much of our precious time trying to keep those darkies in their place.

 

Speak for yourself, pal. 

14 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11862534/man-urinated-pc-memorial-slammed-by-dad/?utm_campaign=sunmainfacebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1592167453

 

  His Father says that he was there for the BLM protests and he had nothing to do with patriot groups and he was a 28 year old unemployed trainee chef , but anyway , he says he just needed a <deleted> and he didnt know the memorial was there and it wasnt intentional . Fair enough

If he was part of the BLM protest why was he in parliament square? It was the right wing thugs who were there.

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If he was part of the BLM protest why was he in parliament square? It was the right wing thugs who were there.

I just think that his political views are quite irrelevant and its quite absurd really , me and you in Thailand arguing about the political beliefs of a 28 year old unemployed trainee chef who pees on the pavement in London . ????

   TBH, we ALL need to get a life ????

32 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and using the worst possible case - slavery. 

If going by a simple 'checkered past' as the standard for de-personing people and history, then your position is even more absurd. 

 

My original post was a lot more nuanced, I certainly did NOT suggest de-personing people and history. Try reading it properly and then at least your comments would not come across as being so dismally ill informed. 

5 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

My original post was a lot more nuanced, I certainly did NOT suggest de-personing people and history. Try reading it properly and then at least your comments would not come across as being so dismally ill informed. 

 

I read your wall of hyperbole just fine. All it was was you justifying your embarrassment of your history and the justification of the removal of some aspects of it, while going after the white males in leadership. 

31 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If he was part of the BLM protest why was he in parliament square? It was the right wing thugs who were there.

Well you shouldn't judge people by their appearance of course, but any normal person sees a fat fart of the standard Alt right thicko variety, who's brains are too small to work out that if you drink 8 cans of lager it has to go somewhere. 

 

Your standard left wing protester is skinny by comparison, and dresses differently. 

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11862534/man-urinated-pc-memorial-slammed-by-dad/?utm_campaign=sunmainfacebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1592167453

 

  His Father says that he was there for the BLM protests and he had nothing to do with patriot groups and he was a 28 year old unemployed trainee chef , but anyway , he says he just needed a <deleted> and he didnt know the memorial was there and it wasnt intentional . Fair enough

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, don't believe it's dad that it isn't a duck - especially if it's dad is quacking to the Scum. 

When people argue, they often ray rude and abusive things to each other .

 

9 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The modern day equivalence to the Maori Haka dance

Allow me to start by showing my appreciation to you for your eventual acceptance that nazi salutes were used by the anti-anti-racist protesters (double negative and all that). It was a long road we traveled to get to this point, but I am glad that we are all in agreement and that there is now no doubt that these men were making such gestures. 

 

I am a little perturbed at your attempt to trivialise it though. The Haka is a cultural tradition proudly maintained by a proud people. Nazi salutes, however, are not part of the UK's heritage.

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Allow me to start by showing my appreciation to you for your eventual acceptance that nazi salutes were used by the anti-anti-racist protesters (double negative and all that). It was a long road we traveled to get to this point, but I am glad that we are all in agreement and that there is now no doubt that these men were making such gestures. 

 

I am a little perturbed at your attempt to trivialise it though. The Haka is a cultural tradition proudly maintained by a proud people. Nazi salutes, however, are not part of the UK's heritage.

They were both used to intimidate  the opposition .

The haka is an embarrasing nonsense forced on non Maori

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Allow me to start by showing my appreciation to you for your eventual acceptance that nazi salutes were used by the anti-anti-racist protesters (double negative and all that).

Before you begin gloating , I didnt claim that there were no Nazi salutes at the demo , my point was that in the previous video , the people there were not doing Nazi salutes , which they werent .

  That was what we were discussing , whether the group in the previous video were doing Nazi salutes  

14 hours ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't take too much notice of the BBC, they are hardly neutral in their reporting now are they, they are living on borrowed time, our citizens have had enough of their propaganda and biased reporting. 

Here is a quote from a veteran, maybe it won't mean a lot to you, but for those of us who do care about our country it will mean a lot.

"Well I stood at the Aberdeen Memorial today and I don't give a sh*t what I am branded, I am a veteran protecting our memorial from vandalism, I have been called a racist, a white supremisist and a far right thug for doing so"

These are the decent citizens of our country, not the privileged middle class wanabee Marxists who hate our way of life and our country because they have been conditioned to believe in a left wing idealism.

Voted for Brexit but claims to ‘care for the country’ - oxymoron ? But coming out as a veteran kind of completes the jigsaw. 
 

How long is your list of bias outlets now who oddly all seem to oppose brexit ????

 

BBC, Reuters, Guardian, Beano, Derby Women’s Institute ZZZZzzzzzzzz or anyone that opposes your view ? All bias ????

48 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Before you begin gloating , I didnt claim that there were no Nazi salutes at the demo , my point was that in the previous video , the people there were not doing Nazi salutes , which they werent .

  That was what we were discussing , whether the group in the previous video were doing Nazi salutes  

On review, it was clear that it was a picture of people furiously bidding for a rare Cezanne at Sotheby’s 

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

Other than a relatively small amount of street fighting, what other fascist tactics do Antifa utilise?

The same tactics as Hitler's notorious brownshirts - violence against anyone or anything which conflicts with their radical anti-capitalist ideology.

 

But don't take my word for it, when you can get it from the horse's mouth of a disenchanted former Antifa member.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/gabriel-nadales-antifa-radical-failed-socialist-ideology

4 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

The same tactics as Hitler's notorious brownshirts - violence against anyone or anything which conflicts with their radical anti-capitalist ideology.

 

But don't take my word for it, when you can get it from the horse's mouth of a disenchanted former Antifa member.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/gabriel-nadales-antifa-radical-failed-socialist-ideology

Link is in reference to the US. where, BTW, security agencies and others have advised very minimal involvement by Antifa which makes the guy's comments irrelevant to current events. IMO the Fox talking head is a nauseating trump sycophant.

 

https://time.com/5849592/antifa-far-right-violent-trump-protesters/

 

Ridiculous to compare Antifa to the Brownshirts (SA), they had a membership of approx 3 million, were nationally organised and funded arm of the Nazi party until the leadership was purged. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

Voted for Brexit but claims to ‘care for the country’ - oxymoron ? But coming out as a veteran kind of completes the jigsaw. 
 

How long is your list of bias outlets now who oddly all seem to oppose brexit ????

 

BBC, Reuters, Guardian, Beano, Derby Women’s Institute ZZZZzzzzzzzz or anyone that opposes your view ? All bias ????

You've insulted and groused at anyone who has a different opinion to you for 5 years, it is your trade mark, because you have a good education you see. Don't bore me with your ongoing hyperbole and while your at it look up what democracy means because it doesn't mean 'it's all about you, maybe next time we have a vote or a referendum we will just ask you, it will save you all this trouble of insulting us all. Have a Monkey Shoulder and chill out.

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I, for one, would like the descendants of Og, the caveman and his tribe that killed my ancestor Ug and enslaved his wife to aplogise for being descended from very bad people. I feel very badly about the mistreatment that my female ancestor Ag had as a slave under Og and all his politically incorrect tribespeople.

Typical comment for an old whiteman. Zero comprehension of the matters at hand. 

 

On 6/14/2020 at 4:48 AM, KhaoNiaw said:

Paul Golding is a convicted far right terrorist leader and he was there. 

Golding received a conditional discharge for the 'crime' of failing to hand over his password when a device was seized in a blatant abuse of anti-terrorist legislation aimed at jihadis returning from war zones. Whether they like it or not he is a recognized political figure in the eyes of the law and had (only) been to a conference in Russia. Interestingly the 'Far Right' paint brushers often seem to forget that bit.

 

(Disclaimer: I am not a fan)

Sorry you didn't like the truth about Antifa thugs from the horse's mouth. But as video footage from both sides of the Pond clearly demonstrates, they are clearly as POTUS describes them - a terrorist organisation.

 

Re your final point, I was not seeking to compare Antifa's organisational structure and membership to that of the Brownshirts, merely their adoption of the same violent, destructive yob behavior.  

 

Police are warned refusing to take a knee could START trouble

 

Former Home Secretary David Blunkett is among politicians who have warned that the action risks drawing police into politics and could lead to false accusations of racism being levelled at any who refuse to join in. 

‘I am concerned that the gesture of kneeling, though prompted by the best instincts, might give the perception of undermining the role of the police in such situations,’ he said last week. 

‘They are there to ensure a safe demonstration, not to make political statements.’ He added that many people ‘may have been left deeply uneasy at the sight of police kneeling before a protesting crowd’, saying: ‘If they attend rallies in their own time, I would have no problem with police making symbolic gestures of solidarity with anti-racists. But it is a different matter when they don their uniform’. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418061/Backlash-police-warned-trouble-refuse-knee-Black-Lives-Matter-protests.html

 

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Link is in reference to the US. where, BTW, security agencies and others have advised very minimal involvement by Antifa which makes the guy's comments irrelevant to current events. IMO the Fox talking head is a nauseating trump sycophant.

 

https://time.com/5849592/antifa-far-right-violent-trump-protesters/

 

Ridiculous to compare Antifa to the Brownshirts (SA), they had a membership of approx 3 million, were nationally organised and funded arm of the Nazi party until the leadership was purged. 

 

 

Also, the Daily Mail was wholly supportive of the Brownshirts - they are not so keen on brown people. 

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Allow me to start by showing my appreciation to you for your eventual acceptance that nazi salutes were used by the anti-anti-racist protesters (double negative and all that). It was a long road we traveled to get to this point, but I am glad that we are all in agreement and that there is now no doubt that these men were making such gestures. 

 

 

I havent accepted that .

  The one salute done wasnt to show any political alliances , it was done solely to provoke the people he was arguing with    .

  Going by his reaction , he was probably being threatened with violence and with a knife and more than probably, he got accused of being a nazi , so, he defiantly gave the salute.

   It wasnt a political statement , it was used to upset his tormentors

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Allow me to start by showing my appreciation to you for your eventual acceptance that nazi salutes were used by the anti-anti-racist protesters (double negative and all that). It was a long road we traveled to get to this point, but I am glad that we are all in agreement and that there is now no doubt that these men were making such gestures. 

 

I am a little perturbed at your attempt to trivialise it though. The Haka is a cultural tradition proudly maintained by a proud people. Nazi salutes, however, are not part of the UK's heritage.

Interestingly I saw a request elsewhere for anyone that had been encouraged by MSM to perform on camera (Nazi salutes etc) to get in touch, especially if they were paid.

 

My comment yesterday re a historic photo in Belfast some years ago explains.

 

I will keep an eye on it...

1 hour ago, vogie said:

 

Police are warned refusing to take a knee could START trouble

 

Former Home Secretary David Blunkett is among politicians who have warned that the action risks drawing police into politics and could lead to false accusations of racism being levelled at any who refuse to join in. 

‘I am concerned that the gesture of kneeling, though prompted by the best instincts, might give the perception of undermining the role of the police in such situations,’ he said last week. 

‘They are there to ensure a safe demonstration, not to make political statements.’ He added that many people ‘may have been left deeply uneasy at the sight of police kneeling before a protesting crowd’, saying: ‘If they attend rallies in their own time, I would have no problem with police making symbolic gestures of solidarity with anti-racists. But it is a different matter when they don their uniform’. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418061/Backlash-police-warned-trouble-refuse-knee-Black-Lives-Matter-protests.html

 

The details seem to clash with the headline.