It’s time to scrap two-tiered pricing for foreigners in Thailand: TAT spokesman

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, kamma said:

Many people just throw out random figures like it's fact or something?!

Where did you get that 20% figure from? Pulled that dirty rabbit straight out of your a**?!

Under 4M Thai paid income tax in 2019 according to the Thai Revenue Department.

(Google "Revenue Department targets online vendors") im not allowed to quote or link as per forum rules.

2018 population of Thailand 70M (lets assume 1/3 are children or in education and 1/3 retired), leaving 23M of working age.

 

A simple calculation gives me under 4m out of 23M = 18% of the working population paid income tax in 2019.

HOWZAT!

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by BritManToo

[Trillian]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Under 4M Thai paid income tax in 2019 according to the Thai Revenue Department.

(Google "Revenue Department targets online vendors") im not allowed to quote or link as per forum rules.

2018 population of Thailand 70M (lets assume 1/3 are children or in education and 1/3 retired), leaving 23M of working age.

 

A simple calculation gives me under 4m out of 23M = 18% of the working population paid income tax in 2019.

HOWZAT!

 

There's a few ways to cut those numbers, the one I like is:

 

The workforce comprises 26 million people, out of a population of 70 million.

 

11% of pay tax through A PAYE equivalent system, that's almost 3 million people, everyone else pays tax on the basis of a tax return or doesn't pay tax at all.

 

You and I actually not far apart on this.

[Blackheart1916]

So after all these years, it's only now that it "does not make sense"? Horse had bolted mate.

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, getithere328 said:

We've been doing it for years in the southwest of England, the moment the holiday makers come down the price goes up. However, it doesn't matter if your foreign of English, we still charge you more.

 

right as well,if these people want to come   onto your manor,they pay,they,re only mugs.

[Airbagwill]

On 7/4/2020 at 2:40 AM, Oziex1 said:

And how do they intend to sort the two tier system? Is it possible that it will be the Thais who will pay the high falang price as well from now on?

There was a study a few years ago that surveyed visitors and others and found that for national parks, the majority of Thai people were prepared to double their entrance fee.

The income from foreigners is not significant in the overall funding of the parks.

 

The problem is not just the 2 tier system in the national parks, it is the overall management which needs also to deal with visitors in a more eco-friendly and efficient manner.

[Airbagwill]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:46 PM, pacovl46 said:

If you stay longer than a night and you want to leave the park you can get a stamp so you won’t have to pay again when you get back later that same day. I’ve done that numerous times. You just need to talk to the people at the entrance before you leave the park. 
 

If you’re too stingy to fork out some money to see an awesome park once in your life then so be it. Don’t ever try to go to Disneyland with your family then either, or any amusement park for that matter. Me personally, I love Khao Yai, it’s my favorite place on earth and the few times I actually had to pay the 400 were fully worth it. No regrets on my part, but hey, to each their own! 

Sorry I wasn't making myself clear. If you are camping within the park you may be able to get a reentry stamp....if you can find a ranger after hours... If you stay outside overnight this is technically not possible. Of course, many who visit parks  on tours especially marine parks, dont realise their 10-fold fee has already been included in the price

 

Once people use the word "stingy", I would suggest they lose all validity to their argument as it shows they dont really grasp the basic argument against 2-tier pricing in NPs. It's to do with effectiveness, attitude and policy and the overall results.

 

I have visited NPs long and short term all over Thailand, I'm especially fond of the parks in the WFC and in the past often used to get the full foreign price waived. However, I have to say even the local officials seem embarrassed asking for that since the clampdown started a few years back.

 

I am not just  a "once in a life time" visitor,  they are a frequent experience for me, I visit them regularly and take a great interest in Thailands conservation efforts.

 

Khso Yai is an example of how Thaiiland is failing in many aspects  of park management with some of the highest visitor numbers outside the marine parks (they are the exception for foreign visitor funding BTW). The mismanagement of the park and visitors is leading to wildlife human confrontation and conflict, encroachment by resorts and unregulated  access to the more isolated areas.

 

 

PS for those who moan about not seeing wildlife....... National Parks are not ZOOS!!. Most of the NPs are rain forest... you dont see animals face to face like you would on the Serengeti.

Thailand's NPs have one of the highest concentration of flora and fauna outside the Amazon. However if they want to manage and conserve this, they need to start doing it professionally and part of this would entail scrapping the 2 tier pricing system and then concrntrating on what matters.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Airbagwill

[essox essox]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:19 PM, djayz said:

I don't believe my eyes!!! 

seeing is to believe....but we are in thailand......and we NOT see anything YET....!!

[tingtong]

Suddenly there is desperation.

Maybe a little late to stop the slide, but happy to see reality start to hit in; Thailand far not as popular as much as it was 15-20 yrs ago.

[pacovl46]

13 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Sorry I wasn't making myself clear. If you are camping within the park you may be able to get a reentry stamp....if you can find a ranger after hours... If you stay outside overnight this is technically not possible. Of course, many who visit parks  on tours especially marine parks, dont realise their 10-fold fee has already been included in the price

 

Once people use the word "stingy", I would suggest they lose all validity to their argument as it shows they dont really grasp the basic argument against 2-tier pricing in NPs. It's to do with effectiveness, attitude and policy and the overall results.

 

I have visited NPs long and short term all over Thailand, I'm especially fond of the parks in the WFC and in the past often used to get the full foreign price waived. However, I have to say even the local officials seem embarrassed asking for that since the clampdown started a few years back.

 

I am not just  a "once in a life time" visitor,  they are a frequent experience for me, I visit them regularly and take a great interest in Thailands conservation efforts.

 

Khso Yai is an example of how Thaiiland is failing in many aspects  of park management with some of the highest visitor numbers outside the marine parks (they are the exception for foreign visitor funding BTW). The mismanagement of the park and visitors is leading to wildlife human confrontation and conflict, encroachment by resorts and unregulated  access to the more isolated areas.

 

 

PS for those who moan about not seeing wildlife....... National Parks are not ZOOS!!. Most of the NPs are rain forest... you dont see animals face to face like you would on the Serengeti.

Thailand's NPs have one of the highest concentration of flora and fauna outside the Amazon. However if they want to manage and conserve this, they need to start doing it professionally and part of this would entail scrapping the 2 tier pricing system and then concrntrating on what matters.

Right, if me using the word stingy makes me lose the argument then so be it! It’s their country and they can do with the pricing what they want and you just have to suck it up or not go there! It’s that simple! 

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Right, if me using the word stingy makes me lose the argument then so be it! It’s their country and they can do with the pricing what they want and you just have to suck it up or not go there! It’s that simple! 

You've just proved my point.

[Airbagwill]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:18 AM, BritManToo said:

Only 20% of Thais have ever paid income tax.

We all pay VAT and import tax.

Not quite sure what the implication of this is.

 

Are you saying that Thai people avoid tax or simply that most people's income is too low to qualify for tax.

 

How do you connect this to 2 tier funding?

[Airbagwill]

There are some rather distorted perspectives on the 2-tier system and how Thai National parks are funded.

 

Entrance fees are only part of how the parks are funded and rather than a source of extra income, the higher prices paid by foreign visitors are more a source of antagonism.

 

The funding for NPs largely comes from the government’s coffers but successive government have deliberately tried to dodge their responsibilities by diverting attention away from themselves and claiming that entrance fees make a difference - this is bull.  Entrance fees contribute little as they are not related to general “WTP” factors or are too small to make a difference and are not tailored to individual parks.

 

Thailand has a huge number of NPs of varying sizes and conditions.

The problem has been that although the number of parks and the areas covered has increased exponentially, the funding has remained almost static.....this means with every new opening the funding has had to be spread more and more thinly.

People bandy about figures for numbers of visitors as if they are real or even relevant - the fact is that visitors paying entrance fees rarely helps.

 

The major marine parks attractive by far the most foreigners and this has an effect, but outside them, parks like Khao Yai and Doi Suthep accept large numbers of visitors who are mostly Thais paying only the “nominal fee.......research has already shown in these places that WTP consideration would allow considerable price increases to Thai visitors and this in turn could be accompanied by the abolition of the 2-tier system........

 

Other larger or less visited parks have vey few visitors throughout the year and the numbers of foreigners are in all respects negligible.....therefore have not noticeable effect on income for the park.

 

In fact, the whole concept of charging both for Thai people and foreigners is basically flawed and needs to be scrapped.......but it is the ignorance and obduracy of the authorities that is preventing this and as a result perpetuating the underfunding and concomitant damage to wildlife and the environment, as well as antagonising or putting off many foreign visitors together with the spin-off income/business they attract.

 

What we are witnessing is a slow and painful disaster - the loss of Thailand’s remaining natural environment, in the hands of incompetent administration.

 

The solution which has been researched in places like Khao Yai is to tailor admission fees to the facilities offered (most of which need improving) by individual parks and the WTP of the customer demographic. This does not include a 2-tier system, and a “one-price-fits-all” blanket charge throughout the country is just nonsense.

 

If extra funds do need to be raised from the visiting public a far more effective way is though “value-added experience” - visitors are encouraged to make use through choice the  facilities, activities and products that reflect the particular nature of the attraction or park they are visiting. This has been shown time and again to make more money that admission fess and creates a much higher level of customer satisfaction.

 

Furthermore with correct management of the areas in their charge the DNP can dramatically increase the numbers of visitors without increasing damage to the environment - in fact the extra funding can be put to good use in funding conservation and protection of the countries wildlife resources.

 

It is essential that the government faces up to their responsibilities and rather than hiding behind the non-issue of entrance fees, addresses the reality of the situation and increases funding to ALL National Parks and related facilities; if this is achieved, it would improve the environment, improve the experience and improve the conservation of wildlife. Charging foreigners extra is just self destructive on so many levels and will NEVER solve the problem....although that appears to be what the authorities would have us believe.

 

Entrance fees are only part of how the parks are funded and rather than a source of extra income, the higher prices paid by foreign visitors are more a source of antagonism.

 

The funding for NPs largely comes from the government’s coffers but successive government have deliberately tried to dodge their responsibilities by diverting attention away from themselves and claiming that entrance fees make a difference - this is bull.  Entrance fees contribute little as they are not related to general “WTP” factors or are too small to make a difference and are not tailored to individual parks.

 

Thailand has a huge number of NPs of varying sizes and conditions.

The problem has been that although the number of parks and the areas covered has increased exponentially, the funding has remained almost static.....this means with every new opening the funding has had to be spread more and more thinly.

People bandy about figures for numbers of visitors as if they are real or even relevant - the fact is that visitors paying entrance fees rarely helps.

 

The major marine parks attractive by far the most foreigners and this has an effect, but outside them, parks like Khao Yai and Doi Suthep accept large numbers of visitors who are mostly Thais paying only the “nominal fee.......research has already shown in these places that WTP consideration would allow considerable price increases to Thai visitors and this in turn could be accompanied by the abolition of the 2-tier system........

 

Other larger or less visited parks have vey few visitors throughout the year and the numbers of foreigners are in all respects negligible.....therefore have not noticeable effect on income for the park.

 

In fact, the whole concept of charging both for Thai people and foreigners is basically flawed and needs to be scrapped.......but it is the ignorance and obduracy of the authorities that is preventing this and as a result perpetuating the underfunding and concomitant damage to wildlife and the environment, as well as antagonising or putting off many foreign visitors together with the spin-off income/business they attract.

 

What we are witnessing is a slow and painful disaster - the loss of Thailand’s remaining natural environment, in the hands of incompetent administration.

 

The solution which has been researched in places like Khao Yai is to tailor admission fees to the facilities offered (most of which need improving) by individual parks and the WTP of the customer demographic. This does not include a 2-tier system, and a “one-price-fits-all” blanket charge throughout the country is just nonsense.

 

If extra funds do need to be raised from the visiting public a far more effective way is though “value-added experience” - visitors are encouraged to make use through choice the  facilities, activities and products that reflect the particular nature of the attraction or park they are visiting. This has been shown time and again to make more money that admission fess and creates a much higher level of customer satisfaction.

 

Furthermore with correct management of the areas in their charge the DNP can dramatically increase the numbers of visitors without increasing damage to the environment - in fact the extra funding can be put to good use in funding conservation and protection of the countries wildlife resources.

 

It is essential that the government faces up to their responsibilities and rather than hiding behind the non-issue of entrance fees, addresses the reality of the situation and increases funding to ALL National Parks and related facilities; if this is achieved, it would improve the environment, improve the experience and improve the conservation of wildlife. Charging foreigners extra is just self destructive on so many levels and will NEVER solve the problem....although that appears to be what the authorities would have us believe.

 

[wobblyjohn]

Good God

What on earth is happening 

Foreigners will be allowed to buy land next 

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll post reported and removed.  

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Airbagwill]

On 7/5/2020 at 1:31 PM, BritManToo said:

Under 4M Thai paid income tax in 2019 according to the Thai Revenue Department.

(Google "Revenue Department targets online vendors") im not allowed to quote or link as per forum rules.

2018 population of Thailand 70M (lets assume 1/3 are children or in education and 1/3 retired), leaving 23M of working age.

 

A simple calculation gives me under 4m out of 23M = 18% of the working population paid income tax in 2019.

HOWZAT!

 

you realise that income tax is not the only income for the country?

I can't see how it justifies or even mitigates a 2-tier pricing system on the nations heritage.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

On 7/6/2020 at 6:28 PM, tingtong said:

Suddenly there is desperation.

Maybe a little late to stop the slide, but happy to see reality start to hit in; Thailand far not as popular as much as it was 15-20 yrs ago.

Except that then they had nearly 10 million visitors and now they have over 30 million.....hows that for "unpopularity"?

 

The problem is that Thailand is shutting in their own nest. It is the natural resources that attract tourists and improper management fails to conserve them and reduces potential revenue. The 2-tier system actually for the most does not improve revenue, management or conserve. It needs to be scrapped as part of a reform to protect there vey basis of Thailand;s tourist industry.

[pineapple01]

Fortunately for Thailand most Tourists are not bothered about a few Cents , just a few Skint Ferang TV members seem bothered about it. Their Rules.Their Nation.

[Airbagwill]

31 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

Fortunately for Thailand most Tourists are not bothered about a few Cents , just a few Skint Ferang TV members seem bothered about it. Their Rules.Their Nation.

This is a variation of the false argument "if you don't like it go home"

 

Childlike in its nativity it misses the point entirely.

The dual pricing system is part of a mindset that actually damages the Thai tourist industry (when it finally starts again) and needs reform.

Their "rules" are not working to their advantage as they image the curry's image and interfere with the efficient management of the nations resources. the National parks are in reality the least unsullied part of what Thailand has to offer tourists. They are a potential money earner - but they need correct management order to preserve the resource and get a good income from visitors both foreign and Thai. 

 

 

[pineapple01]

4 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

This is a variation of the false argument "if you don't like it go home"

 

Childlike in its nativity it misses the point entirely.

The dual pricing system is part of a mindset that actually damages the Thai tourist industry (when it finally starts again) and needs reform.

Their "rules" are not working to their advantage as they image the curry's image and interfere with the efficient management of the nations resources. the National parks are in reality the least unsullied part of what Thailand has to offer tourists. They are a potential money earner - but they need correct management order to preserve the resource and get a good income from visitors both foreign and Thai. 

 

 

Nice sidestep about being Skint. Never mentioned Go Home. Just what i see n hear.

[garyk]

It wasn't to bad before the insurance company, banks, and government started gouging the foreigners.

After I was there for a while, I never minded the people trying to gouge me. Never bothered me what so ever.

Some i would let gouge me, some I would not. 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by garyk

[Airbagwill]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:02 AM, webfact said:

The Tourism Authority of Thailand is eager to scrap the controversial two-tiered pricing entry system that is in place at some national parks and tourist attractions in Thailand.

 

Speaking at the Foreign Correspondents Club on Wednesday, when asked by popular blogger Richard Barrow, Tanes Petsuwan, the Deputy Governor for Marketing Communications at TAT, said that “it does not make sense” to charge foreigners more than Thais. 

 

 

I think many of the posters on this thread have either forgotten what the OP was or never read it in the first place.

 

To me it shows an encouraging sea-change in thought.

 

the posts in share of NPs etc are regarded by Thai politicians as posts where one is "put out to pasture". however it is time that someone more dynamic and with better conservation credentials was put into the job.

Tourism is Thailand contributes a huge amount to thr Kingdom's economy and the continues mismanagement of one of its major natural resources - the National Parks - is truly a disgrace. The resources ae being damaged and run down in many places and yet the potential earnings are in noway being recognised or exploited to the full.

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:32 PM, Pattaya46 said:

For most tourists it will be around $20 for this insurance. I doubt about a big damage...

  

In some national parks, the dual-pricing is a way to limit the number of visitors to preserve the park and Nature.

Complete and utter nonsense. Have you seen the mess Thai tourists leave, and there has never been any thought to restricting numbers by overpricing, it is simple and straightforward racism.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:39 PM, pineapple01 said:

Fortunately for Thailand most Tourists are not bothered about a few Cents , just a few Skint Ferang TV members seem bothered about it. Their Rules.Their Nation.

So on your next (or first I expect) visit to the west you will be happy to pay ten tickets equivalent to walk in Central or Hyde Park if they were not free. Twice or three times the cost of medical attention and drugs or carry a medical insurance card. And you would be happy not to have the opportunity to buy land or own a business outright?

The time of reciprocal agreements is about to dawn.

[impulse]

If they eliminate 2 tier pricing, I expect a lot of venues to close up because they can't afford to keep them open, and other venues will scale back the level of maintenance and amenities.  (For instance, signage, maps and brochures in English..., not to mention flush toilets) 

 

As I've often opined (and taken a lot of flak for), I am in favor of 2 tier pricing.  Two tier pricing is what allows them to keep the doors open, maintain the resource, and give me more choices.   If everyone paid the Thai price, the venues would be jam packed and they still wouldn't make enough revenue to keep the doors open with the same level of maintenance and amenities.  If they charged everyone the foreigner price, the places would look like graveyards, and they'd close up for lack of revenue.

 

I make my decision based on the value of the venue at the price I'm offered.  Not based on some sense of indignation that I'm paying more than the next guy in line.  (Otherwise, I'd be real cheezed off when kids and seniors get a discount-  that's just rampant ageism)  And if paying $6 instead of $0.60 is going to tip the balance, I didn't really want to go that badly.  

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by impulse

[Airbagwill]

On 7/3/2020 at 3:38 AM, brianthainess said:

(I have not read all posts) When i lived in OZ there was a type of 2-tiered pricing in national parks if you lived in the province/shire then you could buy an annual pass and use the parks as much as you liked, if not it was quite an expensive entrance fee for  all *tourists*.   

Completely different...tat is a system of DISCOUNTS for locals and other "deserving" groups. the Thai system is a ten-fold surcharge.

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

I expect a lot of venues to close up because they can't afford to keep them open, and other venues will scale back the level of maintenance and amenities.  (

This is a totally incorrect premise - the high prices charged for foreigners have virtually no impact whatsoever on park funding (except for a couple of marine parks) - funding for parks is provided by government, nt just entrance fees and whilst it is far too limited the admission fees have no significant improvement.

 

the parks main problem is funding, but this prevents proper management of visitors. with better management the parks in general goos handle more visitors with less environmental damage. 

it has also been show that if a single tier system was introduced almost all Thai visitors would be prepared to pay a higher fee.

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

This is a totally incorrect premise - the high prices charged for foreigners have virtually no impact whatsoever on park funding (except for a couple of marine parks) - funding for parks is provided by government, nt just entrance fees and whilst it is far too limited the admission fees have no significant improvement.

 

the parks main problem is funding, but this prevents proper management of visitors. with better management the parks in general goos handle more visitors with less environmental damage. 

it has also been show that if a single tier system was introduced almost all Thai visitors would be prepared to pay a higher fee.

 

You're talking just about National Parks, beaches, and natural areas that don't require massive investment and maintenance.  I'm also talking about attractions like Safari World, zoos, the aquarium in Siam mall, etc.  There are many venues that charge too high a foreigner price for the average Thai, but the fees seem pretty reasonable to someone accustomed to western pricing.

[Airbagwill]

45 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You're talking just about National Parks, beaches, and natural areas that don't require massive investment and maintenance.  I'm also talking about attractions like Safari World, zoos, the aquarium in Siam mall, etc.  There are many venues that charge too high a foreigner price for the average Thai, but the fees seem pretty reasonable to someone accustomed to western pricing.

You're taking the Michael????

Have you any idea how much funding is required to conserve 20% of Thailand?

What you are referring to are paltry little businesses that simply exploit wildlife for tourism. These institutions should by and large be shut down - they do far more damage than good anyway.