NO clarity yet how your local IO will handle the application for a 1-year extension when your permission to stay expired

[problemfarang]

27 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

@Kalasin Jo

The problem is that the 90-day permission to stay of his 1-year ME Non Imm O marriage Visa, already expired, and that he also already used the 60-day extension based on that Visa.

So he needs to rely on the goodwill of his local IO whether they will accept his application for the 1-year extension of stay, now that he is on the Amnesty.

Some IOs will not do that, their reasoning being that he did 'choose' for the Amnesty (and therefor accepted that he needed to leave the country once it was over) instead of applying for the extension when his permission to stay was still valid.

He should enquire at his local IO about his options.  And obviously if they do allow him to apply for the 1-year extension of stay, he would also need to meet the 2 month seasoning-requirements of his funds on a thai personal bank-account which are part of the requirements for a 1-year extension of stay application.

If everything fails and he cannot or doesn't want to leave Thailand, there is still the 'last resort' option of engaging a Fixer Agent and apply for a 1-year extension for reason of retirement (the marriage extension requires divisional approval and is hence more difficult and expensive to 'fix').

 

hi Peter,

im sorry im not sure but are you mentioning my situation? because if so i didnt use my 60 day extension yet. But probably i will because i dont think nonthaburi IO will accept my 1 year extension request. Well i will visit them in this week and we will see.. thanks

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

hi Peter,

im sorry im not sure but are you mentioning my situation? because if so i didnt use my 60 day extension yet. But probably i will because i dont think nonthaburi IO will accept my 1 year extension request. Well i will visit them in this week and we will see.. thanks

Hi @problemfarang

No, I was reacting to your post addressing KalasinJo's situation.  That's why I inserted his name at the beginning, so that he would get a notification that he was mentioned in a post.

Re your situation > You won't have any problems when not having used your 60-day extension yet.

[problemfarang]

Just now, Peter Denis said:

Hi @problemfarang

No, I was reacting to your post addressing KalasinJo's situation.  That's why I inserted his name at the beginning, so that he would get a notification that he was mentioned in a post.

Re your situation > You won't have any problems when not having used your 60-day extension yet.

Thanks ???? I will also report back about nonthaburi IO about what happened in this week

[samtab]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

@Kalasin Jo

The problem is that the 90-day permission to stay of his 1-year ME Non Imm O marriage Visa, already expired, and that he also already used the 60-day extension based on that Visa.

So he needs to rely on the goodwill of his local IO whether they will accept his application for the 1-year extension of stay, now that he is on the Amnesty.

Some IOs will not do that, their reasoning being that he did 'choose' for the Amnesty (and therefor accepted that he needed to leave the country once it was over) instead of applying for the extension when his permission to stay was still valid.

He should enquire at his local IO about his options.  And obviously if they do allow him to apply for the 1-year extension of stay, he would also need to meet the 2 month seasoning-requirements of his funds on a thai personal bank-account which are part of the requirements for a 1-year extension of stay application.

If everything fails and he cannot or doesn't want to leave Thailand, there is still the 'last resort' option of engaging a Fixer Agent and apply for a 1-year extension for reason of retirement (the marriage extension requires divisional approval and is hence more difficult and expensive to 'fix').

 

They give 1 year permission of stay (if 400k in bank) or 2 months extension to anybody on multiple non-o ?

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, samtab said:

They give 1 year permission of stay (if 400k in bank) or 2 months extension to anybody on multiple non-o ?

If you are staying in Thailand on a 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa, the 90-day permission to stay which you received on entry already expired, and you are now on an Amnesty extension.

Some IOs will not accept your application for a 1-year extension of stay (even if you meet the financial requirements) when on such an Amnesty-extension.

Only way to find out is enquire at your local IO how they would handle such an application.

 

However, if you did not yet use up the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife/dependant child (once such application allowed per entry), you could apply for that 60-day extension in the final days of the Amnesty (31 July), which would be granted from the day of application and provide you with a permission to stay till end of September.

And more importantly, at the end of September you would then be able again to apply for the 1-year extension of stay on the basis of your Non Imm O Visa, because your application would then not be from an Amnesty-extension but from the valid permission to stay the 60-day extension provided you.  Also that would provide you the time to meet the 2-month seasoning requirements of the funds on your personal thai bank-account, required for this first 1-year extension of stay.

[drbeach]

19 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Yes. My Savanakhet non O multi by marriage expired a few days after entry. At entry I got 90 days. I then got 60 day extension before that expired as I could see that border closures were imminent and certainly didn't want to get stuck in Laos so I didn't head over to Savanakhet. 

 

Not much later along came the "amnesty" and I cursed that I'd used the 60 day extension. That expired 9 June. 

I actually intended to leave Thailand on 1 May with my wife and head to France, where I have a home and am actually resident. I only spend around 6 months a year here usually in 2 90 day slots.  So also intended to pop over to Savanakhet for a fresh non O multi for the year.

We still want to get to France  and for me asap now, but I felt that getting a 1 year extension plus a re entry permit before leaving would secure the next 12 months, subject we now know to the currently stringent Thai Covid entry conditions...for both of us! When I leave I won't be coming back on those conditions so I guess I won't be coming back for some time even though my wife may have to after 90 days unless we get her a French longer term residency permit.

 

So obviously I didn't get to Savanakhet nor did I leave as our flights were cancelled. I thought I was covered by the " amnesty" or whatever it technically is and that surely things would be easier by its end. Now, obviously not. Now also my wife needs a new visa for France which is in hand, appointment next week.

 

I went in to Kalasin IO on 8 June to clarify what's needed by them to add on a 1 year marriage permission. Plus a further visit when they talked about 1 year bank statement plus proof of source. It's now been a further month on getting that together. 

 

So @Tanoshi you think I've wasted my  ( considerabl amount now) time on this and if I visit the IO on Monday I should ask for an in country issued non O as if since 10 June I've been here visa exempt by way of the "amnesty"?

 

What's needed for that?

 

And if they play ball on that then apply for a 1 year marriage extension before the 90 days is up with either adequate proof of 40k a month for 2 months or 400k in the bank for 2 months.

 

Well I can't whisk up 400k until next year, so would be income, no problem as long as they accept the letter I have about it's source and and which do now show as foreign transfers.

 

But I do not want to be here for another 3 months, actually at least 4 months allowing for the under consideration period for the extension. I need to get back to France where things need some attention after  6 months away! And in 5 may be 6 months would be considering return to Thailand in the normal course ie next year. Well who knows where things will be by then these days.

 

So my question still remains, after that long commentary: is it worth going in to the Kalasin IO ith what I now have and formally applying for a 1 year extension by marriage, income based, or should I pull the plug on that and just leave as soon as we can get a flight out ( once my wife has her new visa  which I am confident she will after emails from the French Embassy).

 

I must say I'm not confident of success with Kalasin IO but I have a tendency once I've invested time and effort either to be a dog with a bone....or for flogging dead horses ( take your pick!).

 

Any further thoughts?

 

 

 

It really depends on your priorities. If you want to get back to France ASAP, try booking a flight for later this month, or wait a week or so before it is possibly announced whether there is an amnesty extension. If the amnesty is extended it will probably be for a month or two and not longer. Another possibility is they might end the amnesty but allow some kind of extension you have to pay for, which will give an extra month or two at a time and last until the borders re-open.

 

You could always go for the 1-year visa extension with help of an agent (or conversion to the retirement extension) but if you plan to leave soon and spend 6 months in France anyway, chances are, half a year out from now entry requirements will have been eased.

It's your call.

 

In my case, I would rather wait it out as I have family here, but that doesn't mean I want to stay here forever. It just means I don't want to go anywhere for the next 6-12 months at least, or until the world gets back to normal. Besides, planning to move to another country (such as one's home country) takes time and preparation. But that's me. Your situation is quite different to mine.

[up-country_sinclair]

Last year I deposited funds into a bank in a different province from where I'll soon be applying for a 1 year extension based on marriage.  Should I prepare for any difficulties from the local branch getting a letter or the local immigration office?

 

Thanks!

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, up-country_sinclair said:

Should I prepare for any difficulties from the local branch getting a letter or the local immigration office?

Not a problem at most banks. I got one last year for an account in a different province at Bangkok Bank.

[up-country_sinclair]

Thanks, UbonJoe.

[Kalasin Jo]

On 7/11/2020 at 2:14 PM, Peter Denis said:

If you are staying in Thailand on a 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa, the 90-day permission to stay which you received on entry already expired, and you are now on an Amnesty extension.

Some IOs will not accept your application for a 1-year extension of stay (even if you meet the financial requirements) when on such an Amnesty-extension.

Only way to find out is enquire at your local IO how they would handle such an application.

 

However, if you did not yet use up the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife/dependant child (once such application allowed per entry), you could apply for that 60-day extension in the final days of the Amnesty (31 July), which would be granted from the day of application and provide you with a permission to stay till end of September.

And more importantly, at the end of September you would then be able again to apply for the 1-year extension of stay on the basis of your Non Imm O Visa, because your application would then not be from an Amnesty-extension but from the valid permission to stay the 60-day extension provided you.  Also that would provide you the time to meet the 2-month seasoning requirements of the funds on your personal thai bank-account, required for this first 1-year extension of stay.

This is what I don't understand. The logic of being able to rely on the amnesty to obtain an unused 60 day extension and then go on to a 1 year extension. But if you did the right thing and got a 60 day extension before the amnesty was announced you can't ask for 1 year extension if those 60 days  expired during amnesty and having sought I O advice you then relied on the amnesty whilst trying to meet the requirements of your local IO for that 1 year extension.

 

I do not think this thinking was made clear when the amnesty was announced. I can understand the logic if you need to renew an existing 1 year extension. The amnesty was not for you.  But that is not my case.

 

The irony is that had Covid not happened I would not even have thought of an in country 1 year extension. I would have gone to Savanakhet to secure the next 12 months and left Thailand on 1 May with ,a return probably late October. It's only securing the next 12 months that made me consider the in country 1 year extension. Once obtained I would have left anyway (with a re entry permit of course) when practicable, as opposed to  technically perhaps possible. 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

This is what I don't understand. The logic of being able to rely on the amnesty to obtain an unused 60 day extension and then go on to a 1 year extension. But if you did the right thing and got a 60 day extension before the amnesty was announced you can't ask for 1 year extension if those 60 days  expired during amnesty and having sought I O advice you then relied on the amnesty whilst trying to meet the requirements of your local IO for that 1 year extension.

 

I do not think this thinking was made clear when the amnesty was announced. I can understand the logic if you need to renew an existing 1 year extension. The amnesty was not for you.  But that is not my case.

 

The irony is that had Covid not happened I would not even have thought of an in country 1 year extension. I would have gone to Savanakhet to secure the next 12 months and left Thailand on 1 May with ,a return probably late October. It's only securing the next 12 months that made me consider the in country 1 year extension. Once obtained I would have left anyway (with a re entry permit of course) when practicable, as opposed to  technically perhaps possible. 

I understand your confusion and you are not alone > almost everybody is scrambling to understand his current Visa situation with an expired permission to stay.

And it is indeed almost impossible to explain the rationale in the rules that govern the thai Visa Jungle.  And with the current unprecedented situation of closed borders and a Visa Amnesty declared, all IOs are struggling too now on how to apply the already often obscure and illogical rules in this situation.

On top of that you have the quasi-autonomy of every IO to interpret and apply the rules as they see fit, and that resulting in one office refusing the very same application that would be accepted in another one.  And even within the same office you will probably get different answers depending on when and to who you address the question.

> If the interpretation of your local IO is such that it has costly and far-reaching consequences for you, I would suggest browsing the Forum for similar cases at other IOs, so that in the ultimate case you could temporarily relocate to another province if they would handle your Visa situation there in a different way.  Crazy yes, but we live in crazy times...

 

[Kalasin Jo]

23 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

I understand your confusion and you are not alone > almost everybody is scrambling to understand his current Visa situation with an expired permission to stay.

And it is indeed almost impossible to explain the rationale in the rules that govern the thai Visa Jungle.  And with the current unprecedented situation of closed borders and a Visa Amnesty declared, all IOs are struggling too now on how to apply the already often obscure and illogical rules in this situation.

On top of that you have the quasi-autonomy of every IO to interpret and apply the rules as they see fit, and that resulting in one office refusing the very same application that would be accepted in another one.  And even within the same office you will probably get different answers depending on when and to who you address the question.

> If the interpretation of your local IO is such that it has costly and far-reaching consequences for you, I would suggest browsing the Forum for similar cases at other IOs, so that in the ultimate case you could temporarily relocate to another province if they would handle your Visa situation there in a different way.  Crazy yes, but we live in crazy times...

 

TiT???? Perhaps, when/if it comes, the government will clarify what happens next and for what type of visa/ extension that expired during amnesty, a word by the way not understood by anyone at my IO. More a question of "you are ok until 31 July".

But clarity is not something Thailand is known for. It suits them to keep everything murky if you don't fit the basics.

 

Unless there is sudden clarity from on high we've decided to leave once we get my wife's Schengen visa renewed, appointment for that tomorrow, and come back when there is a semblance of normality and start over. Could be some time! So we will now try and get my wife a 1 year residency card in France as even she, a Thai national,  might find a return very challenging under present conditions. The post from the chap that returned from China with Thai wife was instructive. How very patient one must be...and he didn't mention what it all cost.

 

Unless it will be possible once again to head to Savanakhet and get a non O visa there as before, seems to me the KISS principle applies, which means start over with 400k in the bank in my case, whether I like it or not, whether I'm here for only 3 months or a full year ( unlikely). It's what they want.

 

Thanks for all  your input. Much appreciated, if very frustrating!

[Dumbastheycome]

I am  pasting this from a previous post as being relevant to some perhaps.

Quick  background.

I am a long  stay individual  who although also long time married have opted  for  extensions of stay based on retirement for the simplicity of a  one time  visit to apply and  of  course financially  compliant from the start which was and has until recently been based on an original  Non O A  visa.

When the issue of the Insurance requirement for renewals  of extension of stay seemed to be  being applied to one and all  rather than  interpretations as applying  to those who after a  certain  date made  first applications for  extensions of stay for  reason of  retirement I chose  the option of nullifying my historic record of legitimate permissions of stay by exiting with no re entry permit.

So away I go to Savannakhet  and  attain  a NON O 12 month  multi entry Visa in  mid  Feb 2020 which was unspecified as to  but based on marriage.

Great. I have options. Do a  border run  every  90  days  or go  for an extension to that of   (?) 60  day  and near end of that  apply for an annual extension based on either  marriage or  retirement. Thinking  that  with  the  multi entry status  would save  me a  re  entry permit cost than if I  went the  extension path I had  some flexibility if I wanted  to  exit  Thailand   for any  reason and  return.

Unfortunately  Covid-19  screwed up that.

Closed  borders, conditional re entry, expensive  Medical Insurance ( albeit  more  realistic policies on offer  than were  for the seemingly  bogus  Non O A  extortionist attempts).

So   sit and  wait and watch. Amnesty . 90  days  stay  exceeds validity   but  not an issue . No problems  under the terms of that  until 1st August.

In probability  I believe in some  form it will be extended .

So  rather than wait I decided  to approach  my  Immigration Office  in Buriram  today.

My thinking was  that perhaps I could  negotiate  a  back dated  60  day extension  to my  original  90 day  validity  and then  progress to an application  to an annual extension . I prepared copies of  everything  I  thought appropriate  and  more .

In the  company of  my wife off we went  to test the  air in the  Immigration Office at the top of the  hill. A salubrious/ostentatious piece of  architecture if   ever there was !

As  can be expected there are some "filtering "  measures now for such attendance.

First  contact was  with  a senior Officer who simply asked  to see  my Passport .

Her perusal of my  Passport which  involved a  rapid  inspection  of   many  pages with  some  minor   pauses to absorb content/relevance resulted  in her  questioning  my  wife  as  to my  ignorance! Not  in terms  of my actual  situation  but  in terms  of  alternatives I was  unaware of  at the time of  applying for  my  Non O  in Laos.( I  could  explain that  but  immaterial   to  my outcome).

The significant outcome of  my  day was  that being in  possession of a  valid  Non O  visa, having a  Passport  record of consecutive extensions  of  stay on the  basis  of  retirement, I/we were informed  that I  could apply  for permission  of  annual stay  on the basis of  retirement if I could  provide   verification  of the  appropriate financial deposit and a Bank generated   copy  of   2 months  statements.( Not  expecting the way of events I had  discounted the  need ).

A visit  to the  nearest  branch of  my Thai  Bank,  an interlude  for  lunch, a  return  to   the Immigration  Office  and  greeted  again in  very  friendly   manner....

Within  20  minutes we  exited with  my  Passport containing an  annual extension of permission to  stay and a  90  day  report   date  in October.

So  why am I  making this  post?

From  my perspective  it is to  suggest that  Thai Immigration  is  very well aware  of the   complications that have  been  created and in response  where they can see the  genuosity of an individuals  situation  they will  react to it with as   much measure as they are  enabled .

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

...

From  my perspective  it is to  suggest that  Thai Immigration  is  very well aware  of the   complications that have  been  created and in response  where they can see the  genuosity of an individuals  situation  they will  react to it with as   much measure as they are  enabled .

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experience in post #73!  Highly appreciated.

And of course congratulations with your successful application not even having to play your 60-day Extension of stay Joker.

You are most surely lucky.

Lucky in the sense that your Buriram IO did not even accept but actually proposed a 1-year extension of stay of your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

If all IOs would be that accomodating!

Those in same situation as yourself but reporting to e.g. Nonthaburi IO and applying with an expired permission to stay, do not even get their 60-day extension of stay accepted (and of course the 1-year permission to stay is completely out of the question).  Forcing them to either relocate to a different province with a reasonable IO, or having to leave the country.

So yes, you are quite lucky.  Of course it is also a somewhat reciprocal situation, because an application for a 1-year Non Imm O extension of stay for reason of retirement requires far less paperwork (for you to provide, and for IO to process) than an application for reason of marriage, which you would also have been able to apply for (after first having used your 60-day extension of stay).

Time for you to celebrate after a somewhat stressful period of insecurity! 

Cheers.