It’s just too risky to allow foreign tourists to visit Thailand, says top Thai doctor

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, CALSinCM said:

Covid is a death sentence.  Better safe than sorry!!!

Only for perhaps 1% of those infected, what would be the death rate from mass unemployment ?

Lockdowns were essentially the only defence we had against covid so make sense , but they are short term solutions only.

The answer is to strike a balance between safety and economic disaster , much like Europe is doing.

The USA , Brazil and India have failed because their policies have been overwhelmingly political rather than logical, Thailand could learn from that.

Edited July 13, 2020 by joecoolfrog

[Blumpie]

As expected, don't look at 2020 for tourism.  Look at 2021, and even then the chances of tourism in 2021 are fairly poor at this point.  Things can change quickly though and its way too far to put out predictions but if it's like this in 2021 it will be a repeat year.  

[ToddinChonburi]

Why was the Egyptian Navy here in Rayong and now one has tested positive.  They went to a mall in Rayong.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

 Quarantining longer than that is not necessary, and if you have test results covering about 10 days all negative then quarantine isn't even necessary at all.

 

Except the prior comment was suggesting about allowing incoming travelers to test a week ahead of the incoming flight and then just prior to departure... And then having the traveler on the jet with hundreds of others for an hours long flight. So at that point, any value to the week ahead of departure test is pretty much out the window.

 

Quarantine means being isolated from everyone else to ensure no interim exposure has occurred, not traipsing thru airports with thousands of other people and spending hours elbow to elbow with fellow jet travelers.

 

 

[Blumpie]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Except the prior comment was suggesting about allowing incoming travelers to test a week ahead of the incoming flight and then just prior to departure... And then having the traveler on the jet with hundreds of others for an hours long flight. So at that point, any value to the week ahead of departure test is pretty much out the window.

 

Quarantine means being isolated from everyone else to ensure no interim exposure has occurred, not traipsing thru airports with thousands of other people and spending hours elbow to elbow with fellow jet travelers.

 

 

Very true.

It's shocking to see some of these opinions being barfed out from people with no medical training, and in some cases, no common sense at all.  We would all be dead if we listened to these people, and not just from COVID.  

[Older bolder]

We all have to get on with this bad flu Now.... If Thailand still keeps the Tourists out there will be no Thailand left, people are starving now with no food no jobs they do not get any help with money not like Europe.There is over 70 countrys were you can travel now with little or no restrictions. I don't know who is right or who is wrong...but I know if countrys around the world do not get back  to some sort of normal there is not enough money  in the world to borrow.

 

[apetryxx]

I can’t believe nobody, least of all the government, even mentions the epicenter of this worldwide mess. The Chinese Communists. It seems like everyone wants to blame the US or Brazil or some other bogey man. Come on folks be real and point a finger squarely where the blame belongs. Beijing.

[Blumpie]

We don't want tourists in my home country either.  Does that make me a racist?  No, we don't want to be like Italy or the USA.  A gong show.  

Let your imaginations go wild, kids.  Think the worst, hope for the worst, see where it gets you.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, fred110 said:

 

 

And the hospitals and ICU wards in places like Florida and Arizona are already full or reaching capacity... And that's just with the spread of the virus thus far... Look what lies ahead unless masks, social distancing and other measures are taken to control it.

 

Also, the official casecount in the U.S. pretty much means nothing in terms of the argument you're trying to make, because the U.S. has such a wretched testing program. There are estimates that the official casecount underestimates the actual casecount by 10 times or more because of the issue with people contracting the virus and being the lucky ones to not develop serious symptoms.

 

The only motivation I see for mask wearing and other CV related restrictions is to keep people out of the hospitals and out of the morgues.  Unlike the 130,000+ who have already died, and the tens of thousands more that are likely to follow them in the coming months, with current estimates being the U.S. death toll will exceed 208,000 by November 1.

 

Go tell your survival rate statistics to the families and loved ones of the 130,000 to 208,000 dead Americans, many of whom died needlessly for lack of any national leadership to prevent or limit the pandemic there.

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, Berti said:

Very unlikely that 10k people die with certain symptoms and nobody notices.

 

provincial deaths in the outer reaches are never truly autopsied.  The government us just to someone in the family died and was cremated. 

[phantomfiddler]

6 hours ago, Sharp said:

Jesus H ....Mortality rate ???????....98% recovery ?????Some dont know of they have it??????? See what happens when you let a medical persons steer world economies !! 

Ebola

TB 

Check oiut those stats so far this year.

In Bangkok Post today, 7,800 people have died this year in Bangkok alone from air pollution !!! Not to mention diabetes and the several other diseases that completely dwarf the elusive covid ????

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

And meanwhile in actual Sweden, new deaths and critical cases are down to almost zero. It's almost as-if they have herd immunity already. Oh wait, they do!

 

It's going to be a good summer for Swedes, being literally the only country in the world that actually beat Covid-19 already. No risk of a second wave and the world is about to open up for them once confirmed cases go to zero too.

Hold that thought for a little while longer so it stays true and does not blow back on you.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, CALSinCM said:

Covid is a death sentence.  Better safe than sorry!!!

Only if you are very old or with specific pre-existing medical conditions. 
See https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1172522-it’s-just-too-risky-to-allow-foreign-tourists-to-visit-thailand-says-top-thai-doctor/?do=findComment&comment=15610633

Therefore, only those people should be quarantining, if they choose to do so - and should receive govt-support for lost-income in that case.  With everyone else working and paying taxes, that might be affordable.  If we aren't, everyone goes down.

 

  

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So unless you ultimately want to condemn all the at risk groups to sickness and death ...

No, they can choose to quarantine.  No reason to mess up everyone else's world.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by JackThompson

[vinny41]

40 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Apparently that period isn't all that high for everyone. The same begs the question why a traveller is supposed to have a covid-19 free "certificate"  no older than 72 hours, which is just three days. It is simple, if Thailand will force all nationalities (regardless where they come from) to quarantine for 14 days, they might as well not open at all, not many tourists will waste two full weeks of vacation time, they simply go elsewhere. And they supposed gains are minimum, as long as people social distance the risks aren't all the great. It is a trade off between security and economy, and how long Thailand can do without tourism income. If first world countries like the ones that make up the EU are actually letting people from low risks countries in without a need to quarantine, it seems they have already made the tradeoff. I wonder how long Thailand can continue to refuse to make that trade off, and to which price. I bet that trade off will happen this year, not next year, simple economics.

Tourists will only come when they know that they can come on a certain date and leave on a certain date, at the moment that is not possible anywhere in the world.

How many of the hard core TVF members that refused to wear a mask under any circumstances would be willing to wear a mask and pratice social distancing in return for no quarantine I think you will find the hard core  no mask will still continue with their stance of no mask.

As for Europe my understanding is there over 1 million people in lockdown at the moment in a number of different regions

Curfews are taking place in Turkey and Serbia. uk lockdown leicester

How many TVF members are prepared to accept a 2nd lockdown for 4 or more months in returned for no quarantine 

[Miami007]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

He does have a point however I think groups such as married and retired etc should be allowed to return. Yes keep the quarantine but relax some of the other requirements.

Why married or retired?

Aren't older (retired) people more at risk?

Is being married a vaccine against coronavirus?

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

Why married or retired?

Aren't older (retired) people more at risk?

Is being married a vaccine against coronavirus?

Many folk have families here. Some retired guys have sold homes etc in home countries and been living in Thailand for some time. Basically they imo are completely different to the tourists that visit Thailand. Covid is a world wide gig. Older people are more at risk. If anything they appear to be less at risk in Thailand than most places.

I won't reply to "is being married a vaccine against covid 19" because it's a childish comment.

[Kern24]

If they are really going to wait for countries to be 60 days free of infections there won’t be many tourist establishments left to come back to.

 

understand the docs point but why not test on arrival as some other countries are doing .

 

The risk to life From COVID-19 appears very low in Thailand , there will however be far more deaths indirectly resulting from the foreign tourist ban.

[tomauasia]

The racist doctor. Top ???? I don't think so. Secondly you can all play your game l wait for you to go bankrupt 

[CorpusChristie]

57 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

How many TVF members are prepared to accept a 2nd lockdown for 4 or more months in returned for no quarantine

If we another visa amnesty, I would support another lock down

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

How many TVF members are prepared to accept a 2nd lockdown for 4 or more months in returned for no quarantine 

I can handle another lockdown if necessary.  My pantry is full, the freezer stocked with what's needed, and my treadmill ready if I can not run in Lumpini Park.  Added some kettle bells to my spare room Gym I built, and my Wine refrigerator is stocked with 48 bottles.  Still have 4 months left until I need to do an extension if I can not get my O-A ME Visa restamped for another year.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Caldera said:

I take it the good doctor's income doesn't depend on foreign tourists.

Exactly.  Make sure his family - and all others who support the ongoing lockout - have to live as subsistence-farmers, until they decide it is "safe."  Then, see how long it takes for their attitudes to change. 

 

The same "treatment" would do wonders for those in Immigration who pushed for "crackdowns" on "too long/frequent" tourists, who make marriage/family extensions a nighmare, etc. 

 

All are sheltered entirely from the consequences of their actions.

[Miami007]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The news this morning said there about 7000 people currently hospitalized in Florida with coronavirus...and that number and the associated deaths from it there are growing daily.

 

Do you want to stay in a place that has ignored and failed to control the virus and has spiraling sickness and death numbers because they wanted to reopen their economy too soon?

 

Or do you want to live in a place that, for whatever reasons including closing its borders and banning international air arrivals, has managed thus far to keep its numbers very low, and hasn't had mass illnesses and deaths?  I know which I would, and have, chosen.

 

Closing its borders... can you explain the lack of infections in January, February and March when Chinese tourists were allowed to enter - or did sick Chinese only go to Italy to spread the virus there?

Most countries in SE and E Asia seem to have same/ similar numbers (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia - even Japan and South Korea) - there is something else in play in addition to lockdowns.

[Miami007]

6 hours ago, charmonman said:

If a country has managed to get things under control there is no reason for Thailand not to let citizens or residents of those countries in. By all means keep the US Americans, Brazilians etcetra out, but why restrict Kiwis, Japanese, Australians or even Canadians. The risk of anyone from countries like those bringing in new cases is minimal particularly if they are willing to submit to a quarantine period.

Why inflict more economic pain than necessary?

Australians have to get permission from their own government before they can leave the country.... reminds one of the day sof the Soviet Union

[elliss]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Don't forget Russia. 

 

        Don't  forget China ..

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Tourists will only come when they know that they can come on a certain date and leave on a certain date, at the moment that is not possible anywhere in the world.

How many of the hard core TVF members that refused to wear a mask under any circumstances would be willing to wear a mask and pratice social distancing in return for no quarantine I think you will find the hard core  no mask will still continue with their stance of no mask.

As for Europe my understanding is there over 1 million people in lockdown at the moment in a number of different regions

Curfews are taking place in Turkey and Serbia. uk lockdown leicester

How many TVF members are prepared to accept a 2nd lockdown for 4 or more months in returned for no quarantine 

Well, I would certainly be prepared to wear a mask, in fact in Germany, a mask is mandatory, not only in public transportation, but also in shops, Belgium is going the same way. I do not think it is a matter of being prepared, it is mandatory, no discussion. 

 

There might certainly be a few countries in lockdown in Europe, but I was talking about the EU, and as far as I know all the lockdown there have come to an end. 

 

And travel to the EU is allowed, as long as you come from a low risk country, a list that Thailand currently is part of. 

[Miami007]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The purpose is to tamp down the outbreak and limit its spread and severity until a vaccine solution hopefully is found.  The alternative of doing nothing pretty much gets you where the U.S. is right now.

 

Do you live in the USA or are you just watching TV news in another country?

I live in Miami - we have had mandates to wear masks for months now and I have not encountered anyone in a store or shop without it.

Same for restaurants, they were closed for dining and could only provide take-out or delivery.  All retail was closed until mid or late May - beaches were closed until the end of May (and now you need to have a mask when going to the beach)

Hotels had been closed and staff furloughed, laid-off - some have opened but are empty

Schools are closed, we are not allowing foreigners from China, Brazil, EU into the country

Basically the same restrictions as in EU (as per my parents and sister who live there)

 

And still, Miami has the highest number of infections and infection rate in the State.  Apparently 30-40% of patients that go to hospitals for non-Covid related reasons (car accident, giving birth, heart attack etc) are testing positive (every admission is being tested), which means that these people have the virus but no symptoms.  

Cases have been climbing since mid-June - nobody wants to mention it, but we had mass protests without masks and distancing in late May and early June.... so about 14 days later, cases start spiking?

 

The purpose of lockdowns was to preserve hospital capacity - not to eliminate the virus.  Every country in the western world which opened is experiencing increases and outbreaks.  We need to find ways to live with the virus which does not impact everyone the same

[Miami007]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Not risky at all. You do a reliable, instant test at the airport. At the tourists expense. Even asymptomatic people test positive. Where is the risk? Positive folks go directly into quarantine, at their expense. 

that is a common-sense solution - so it will not be implemented as nobody in a government position thought of it...(and that goes for every country)

 

[elliss]

3 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

You mean the masks that don't actually help, then help, then don't help, then.... according to the WHO?

And the temperature guns that consistently register 2-3 degrees lower than your actual temperature and literally would not show a fever unless you were like 39c? It's useless and basically just for show, does nothing.

 

 Temperature guns , are a joke .

 Made in China .

 

[kno77]

3 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Well, I would certainly be prepared to wear a mask, in fact in Germany, a mask is mandatory, not only in public transportation, but also in shops, Belgium is going the same way. I do not think it is a matter of being prepared, it is mandatory, no discussion. 

 

There might certainly be a few countries in lockdown in Europe, but I was talking about the EU, and as far as I know all the lockdown there have come to an end. 

 

And travel to the EU is allowed, as long as you come from a low risk country, a list that Thailand currently is part of. 

Belgium doesn't follow this advice. So no tourists from that list get into Belgium. Germany decided to block all Japanese and Korean tourists because these countries block German tourists. A bit confusing because the list is an advice not a decisive action from all EU member states. 

[Miami007]

6 hours ago, fred110 said:

 

You forgot that 1.4 million of cases recovered - so there are about 1.7 million active cases (less than one half of 1 percent of the population)

But masks will help - not mandating them is probably the biggest self-inflicted wound of any politician who wants to get reelected in November 2020... his only chance is to get en economic recovery for people (not only investors)