Where to find beef cattle buyers?

[IsaanAussie]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

Around here they are done by eye ,most cattle dealers have been the job for a few years and are not normally far out

Amazing. When I was breeding pigs weights were contested to the kilo. The scales, the transport box and the animal, any way of reducing the cost.

Now with these beef sales, a pickup arrives with a driver, loads up and leaves, just the beast and the driver, no "witnessed" weighing. 

A-F'ing-mazing 

[Hellboy75]

12 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Amazing. When I was breeding pigs weights were contested to the kilo. The scales, the transport box and the animal, any way of reducing the cost.

Now with these beef sales, a pickup arrives with a driver, loads up and leaves, just the beast and the driver, no "witnessed" weighing. 

A-F'ing-mazing 

A Vietnamese buyer is visiting us on the 11th we've already stated that we don't want to sell so we're not going through the hassle of weighing them but if he makes us an offer we can't refuse he can have them all

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Amazing. When I was breeding pigs weights were contested to the kilo. The scales, the transport box and the animal, any way of reducing the cost.

Now with these beef sales, a pickup arrives with a driver, loads up and leaves, just the beast and the driver, no "witnessed" weighing. 

A-F'ing-mazing 

Normale the guy buying the animal will pay on collection ,one of our buyer's  will come look at a beast agrees  a price, puts a deposit down of 500-1000 baht and pick the beast  up 2-3 days later  .

When we reared dairy heifers one guy did this paid a 500 baht deposit,but never come back for the heifer ,we sold for a good price ,he was going to sell it on ,but he could not ,him selling it on to make a profit, price would have been  above market price, no buyers . 

[Hellboy75]

10 hours ago, kickstart said:

Normale the guy buying the animal will pay on collection ,one of our buyer's  will come look at a beast agrees  a price, puts a deposit down of 500-1000 baht and pick the beast  up 2-3 days later  .

When we reared dairy heifers one guy did this paid a 500 baht deposit,but never come back for the heifer ,we sold for a good price ,he was going to sell it on ,but he could not ,him selling it on to make a profit, price would have been  above market price, no buyers . 

Yeah that's how its done around here if buying 1-2 but if your selling more I wouldn't want to take the risk I think the buyers are always going to come in the low end of the estimate its OK if you've got a fixed price per beast in your head and they meet it. Even at the markets these days some of them come with paperwork showing they were weighed they're generally the bigger higher blood animals. 

[IsaanAussie]

First birth of the BIL's cattle. A bull calf from a Thai (God knows what) cow joined with a Chariolet bull. All good so far.

[IsaanAussie]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:23 PM, kickstart said:

IA 

I thought I posted this afternoon ,my com is having a bad hairy day, the best cattle to buy would be like what your BIL had ,a Thai Native ,or a Thai Native X Brahman buy a heifer and put it to a Angus bull, the calf should do well ,your local DLD should have some semen.

 

Well KS seems like you were right, here is the outcome of BIL's Thai cow mated with Charolais that I mentioned a day or two back. There is also another similar cow up for sale here. A bit heavier and 7 months pregnant to an Angus bull. I am told the seller wants 40K for her.

[IsaanAussie]

So here is a picture of the pregnant cow for sale I just got sent to me. Worth 40K?

[kickstart]

Looking at those cows they are Brahman X's,the cross I would say would have been Indo Brazil,the long legs say Indo Brazil, is that her first calf ,she must be 3 years old .

Is that cow for sale worth 40k,I would say no,but they are the market prices ,you could buy a heifer for a lot less, but you would have to keep it a year before  you get a calf .cost of rearing?

That Charolais is nice a nice calf  should do well ,as long as mum is feed well.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks for the confirmation KS. I don't know how old the cow is, seems the BIL doesn't either when I asked some time ago. Despite my cattle knowledge being five eight's of the square root of stuff all, I am starting to think I might be in the lead. 

So far my only involvement is letting him use my pig sty to house the herd and the land around it to grow fodder. Whilst nothing said yet, I bet he wants the new one but doesn't have the money. Time to wait for more information. 

[Hellboy75]

2 hours ago, kickstart said:

Looking at those cows they are Brahman X's,the cross I would say would have been Indo Brazil,the long legs say Indo Brazil, is that her first calf ,she must be 3 years old .

Is that cow for sale worth 40k,I would say no,but they are the market prices ,you could buy a heifer for a lot less, but you would have to keep it a year before  you get a calf .cost of rearing?

That Charolais is nice a nice calf  should do well ,as long as mum is feed well.

Wife's distant cousin who is a neighbour just bought a little charolais heifer for 28,000 I'd say it was a good few months before it could get pregnant but her costs are low they only get grass & hay, prices are ridiculous at the moment my wife's idea is that lots of people have moved back home from bkk and bought cattle & that and a few other things have driven the price up

[douglasspade]

14 hours ago, kickstart said:

I would say would have been Indo Brazil,the long legs say Indo Brazil

The "longer legs" is a spot on observation, but it is not Indo Brazil, they were X out from the Zebu. The Zebu that originated in India/Southeast Asia is generally the X out species in Thailand. The Brahman is also originally a Zebu bred out species.

 

A Zebu X after X with any other blood lines (not directly related like Brahman) still have the hump although it gets less defined. The more defined the hump, the closer you are to the original blood line.

 

17 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Worth 40K?

To my view, that cow has been X out with subspecies and also Brahman as Zebu have smaller ears and Brahman droopy ears.

If she is a first calf heifer then she is probably worth way less. If she is a second+ calf cow and carrying from a proper Zebu/Brahman bull then 30K - 35K sounds fairly reasonable to me.

[kickstart]

FYI ,You age cattle from their teeth ,if they still have the milk teeth they are 20-24 months old ,when they are 24 months old they will have 2 larger teeth up ,at 30 months old they will have 4 teeth up ,at 36 months old they will have 6 teeth up ,a full mouth. 

This  is a guide European breeds maturer earlier than say Brahman's.some Brahman could be older ,with a full mouth .

 IA's cow calving at 3yeras old plus?.you could say have lost breeding year ,one of our heifers calved a few days ago ,she was just over two years old ,in the UK ,and a few dairies heard's here in Thailand  heifers calve at 2 years old .

It has been said heifers' calving at 3 years makes them more difficult to get them back in calf again,they are not over fertile, mainly due to  small non-functioning  ovaries ,diet being short of energy ,and probably minerals.

But like most farms with a few cattle ,investment is just labour /fuel costs to cut some grass,so most farms are not bothered? at what age they calve at,and they know any problems the owner has he can sell a few cattle, or cattle are a walking bank.  

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, douglasspade said:

The "longer legs" is a spot on observation, but it is not Indo Brazil, they were X out from the Zebu. The Zebu that originated in India/Southeast Asia is generally the X out species in Thailand. The Brahman is also originally a Zebu bred out species.

 

A Zebu X after X with any other blood lines (not directly related like Brahman) still have the hump although it gets less defined. The more defined the hump, the closer you are to the original blood line.

 

To my view, that cow has been X out with subspecies and also Brahman as Zebu have smaller ears and Brahman droopy ears.

If she is a first calf heifer then she is probably worth way less. If she is a second+ calf cow and carrying from a proper Zebu/Brahman bull then 30K - 35K sounds fairly reasonable to me.

You might have been correct 25 years ago ,they were a dairy breed ,known as TMZ, Thai Milking Zebu,a breed developed by the Thai DLD, idea was a dairy breed resistant to heat ,and more importantly resistant  to tic fever ,never really  caught on ,milk yield were low ,due to the Zebu ,and the poor diet ,mainly due to cows being feed rice straw for roughage.

They is now no TMZ,and the Zebu was never used on beef cattle ,no bulls and no semen for AI .

Apart from the European breeds used on beef cattle here in Thailand, the main Thai beef  breeds are Brahman, and Indo Brazil ,next time you are at your local market look at Thai cattle magazine ,full of Brahman and Indo Brazil breeds only.

If the breeding has small ears that will be from the Thai Native breed, still the best breed here in Thailand. 

[IsaanAussie]

1 hour ago, douglasspade said:

and carrying from a proper Zebu/Brahman bull then 30K - 35K sounds fairly reasonable to me.

She is carrying from an Angus bull I believe.

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

She is carrying from an Angus bull I believe.

You would if it is an Angus X,the calf should come out all black, black being a dominant colour in cattle breeding .

[thoongfoned]

the cow business is still busy around us, people buying /selling, see afew pickups loaded with cattle most weeks buzzin about the roads... wife friend bought 2 mums and 2 babies (looked like native stuff...) around 2 months ago, 80,000 baht since sold on for 120,000 baht....  a woman that does some work for us from time to time has gone into the cows, they have bought 6 so far... she now spends her time cutting the weeds at are farm, she says 5 bags each per day.. her sister lives abroad and has spent this years holiday money on some cows (not coming this year cos of covid) not sure how much she paid for cows... can not get a stiaght answer, around 30 each ish me thinks, all girls...

the other day the wife was saying the main worry is fmd at the mo, some say its around this are at the mo...

[Hellboy75]

As far as I can tell the price is still going up we've just been offered off the bat 98 bht a kg so I suspect it must be higher. Some people in our village came to our farm on Monday asked if I'd give 2 cattle a couple of jabs when we went there they had 12 charolais for fattening 2 they had bought in surin needed jabs the other 10 they had bought online from ratchaburi some were undoubtedly high blood but all of them were under 1 Yr old a few looking a couple of months old the price for these was 32,000 each lol

[IsaanAussie]

Underlying all of this is the lack of financial planning most Thai farmers do. The ease of committing to large debt levels on a "new" venture with no subject knowledge, just reliance on a great success story told to them by someone they don't know but drives past with a truck full of cows and who offers to "help" them. 

Where do you find cattle buyers? Seems it depends on how good a story you can spin to someone that has a chanote with a bit of credit left against it. 

My BIL is a great example. Short story acquired 8 beasts on a chanote based loan and has 10K baht left. He is about 2 months short of the planned selling date for a few of them. Concentrate and gut beer etc.. is running out, but today he spent 8K of the total on a fodder chopper. Several others have these machines and would cut his fodder for 20 baht a day. Bbbbrrrrrr...... 

[Hellboy75]

Heads up for everybody we just met with a Muslim goat & cattle exporter working with a viet they had a double trailer lorry with 50 cattle on board heading for Laos he said they had another order for 1000 cattle in 2 months time he said around New year he said they're not the only ones the price will go up after that. 

[Tounge Thaied]

3 minutes ago, Hellboy75 said:

Heads up for everybody we just met with a Muslim goat & cattle exporter working with a viet they had a double trailer lorry with 50 cattle on board heading for Laos he said they had another order for 1000 cattle in 2 months time he said around New year he said they're not the only ones the price will go up after that. 

So is this a confirmation of my suspicion that prices were going to go up?

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Hellboy75 said:

Heads up for everybody we just met with a Muslim goat & cattle exporter working with a viet they had a double trailer lorry with 50 cattle on board heading for Laos he said they had another order for 1000 cattle in 2 months time he said around New year he said they're not the only ones the price will go up after that. 

 

Just now, Tounge Thaied said:

So is this a confirmation of my suspicion that prices were going to go up?

I hope so and wish you well but think this through. There are two sides to any market, demand and supply. What we know (really just assume) is the Thai supply side is increasing. Unless the demand side is increasing faster, then the price will go down, not up. Has anyone studied what the demand side is doing, or what the Thai supply side is achieving?

 

[Hellboy75]

9 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

 

I hope so and wish you well but think this through. There are two sides to any market, demand and supply. What we know (really just assume) is the Thai supply side is increasing. Unless the demand side is increasing faster, then the price will go down, not up. Has anyone studied what the demand side is doing, or what the Thai supply side is achieving?

 

Nobody knew that covid was going to happen & the result would also include relations between China & Australia souring so a country with a billion ppl is now cutting how much they import from Oz, China also culled all their pigs last year because of swine flu so the Chinese have spent a good part of this year without access to as much meat as they'd like with borders easing restrictions demand is up, who knows if it will stay up throughout next year? I forgot to mention a few weeks ago a ship with thousands of cattle from oz destined for China went down. 

[Michael Hare]

1 hour ago, Hellboy75 said:

Nobody knew that covid was going to happen & the result would also include relations between China & Australia souring so a country with a billion ppl is now cutting how much they import from Oz, China also culled all their pigs last year because of swine flu so the Chinese have spent a good part of this year without access to as much meat as they'd like with borders easing restrictions demand is up, who knows if it will stay up throughout next year? I forgot to mention a few weeks ago a ship with thousands of cattle from oz destined for China went down. 

The ship that went down a few weeks ago off the coast of Japan bound for China, was from New Zealand, carrying about 5,000 dairy cows for breeding and milk production in China. 

[Hellboy75]

10 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

The ship that went down a few weeks ago off the coast of Japan bound for China, was from New Zealand, carrying about 5,000 dairy cows for breeding and milk production in China. 

Yes & now New Zealand have stopped live exporting they banned export for slaughter a while back but have got around this by exporting for breeding

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

 

I hope so and wish you well but think this through. There are two sides to any market, demand and supply. What we know (really just assume) is the Thai supply side is increasing. Unless the demand side is increasing faster, then the price will go down, not up. Has anyone studied what the demand side is doing, or what the Thai supply side is achieving?

 

When we started rearing cattle ,we reared dairy heifers ,buying in young heifers feeding them ,then getting them in calf and selling them .

Sounds good ,so did my budget, but in reality ,the market was too volatile ,the times we brought dear and sold cheap ,the best prices we got when the Viennese  came over and started buying  in calf dairy heifers and sending them back to Vietnam for almost a year in calf heifer prices went up ,and after while Thai prices went up ,farmers selling all their dairy heifers ,leaving our home market short .

Then the Viennese filled their  quota ,and prices came well down again.

With price on the increase ,farmers are happy ,all they do is cut grass from the road sides ECT and feed it to their  cattle ,the odds that the cattle will any weight on is not good ,I see it around here ,motorbike and side-car a sickle for cutting grass ,job done.

When the prices drop ,which they will ,these farmers will lose out ,they will probably get just a bit more than they paid ,OK investment was low , but if they were working on borrowed money ,wish them luck.

Farmers who thought ahead grew some grass even Napier is better than roadside grass feed some concentrate ,they should do ok cattle will have grown ,and they should get a fair price and make some money.