On 7/16/2020 at 1:51 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The indications are that Britain has responded to US demands.

 

Get used to it, there’s more to come.

 

Erm, what would you have preferred that Britain have done, Chomper? And how would that have benefitted British interests?

A post with a link to a questionable propaganda/conspiracy site and the replies have been removed. 

 

An off topic post and the replies have been removed. 

18 hours ago, Mavideol said:

the funny thing is,  if he was speaking like that in China/his own country he would be thrown in jail, why do westerner countries allow them to do so, why not tell them to keep it low and be polite, after all they are guests, nothing else,  on the hosting country, same as we are in Thailand and if we don't follow the rules they send us packing

What I find more disturbing that there are people on TVF that with their hatred of the US & Trump seem to be able to turn a blind eye and buy into the CCP propaganda.

 

That mentality will end in disaster

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by GinBoy2

A video clip from a non-authoritative source has been removed. Please confine any viudeos to actual bona fide news sources, there is no lack of same on this subject.

 

Please also stay on topic and keep it civil

On 7/21/2020 at 3:06 AM, nattaya09 said:

Give them govt incentive to relocate their manufacturing base out of China. Tariff away their sweatshop profit margins

IMHO if that were to happen, then the price of goods made in the USA will probably xost 50 or 100% more than they do now and the price of Iphones will be out of the reach of 90% of the buyers.

 

Building new factories would be quite reasonable and for many it would mean short term jobsbut staffing the factories might be a harder task as there are fewer skilled people left now and they will be older and probably jump at the chance ofowrning again. The biggest problem would be the extra cost and the subsequent loss of profit to the shsreholders as after all, that is one big reason why the companies went offshore in the first place.

 

I don't think that the US government can afford the extra cost since Covid hit the USA puttimg millions of workers out of jobs

Off topic posts and replies about Guantanamo Bay and the Uighur interment camps have been removed. 

On 7/20/2020 at 7:06 PM, GinBoy2 said:

Not sure thats true about Biden

 

The whole Western world has finally awoken from the fantasy that China was going to move towards a move democratic, if still one party system.

 

Joe in recent weeks has been spouting some pretty hardline statements about China.

 

What we are seeing however is the failure of the past 20 years of collective Western government's to understand the risk China poses.

 

Chickens coming home to roost I fear

the writing was on the wall but not heeded after tinnaman square.

44 minutes ago, kingdong said:

the writing was on the wall but not heeded after tinnaman square.

I personally think the biggest events that influenced Western thinking was the 1997 handover and China's entry to the WTO.

 

I think collective wisdom at the time was that China at that time would evolve to look more like Hong Kong.

 

Trouble is, exactly the opposite has happened.

 

China has, and continued to abuse its WTO membership to the detriment of its trading partners.

 

Stolen IP, currency manipulation, sweat shop labor, yet the corporate giants across the Western World were quiet so long as the stock price went up.

 

Well now its time to tally up the cost for all of that corporate avarice

On 7/16/2020 at 12:46 PM, JonnyF said:

Excellent news. We should boycott them until they improve their human rights record and stop stealing IP.

 

The Brits don't respond well to threats. So jog on, Winnie.

Let's just take all the west's factories and relocate industry to home countries. If people can't buy junk at bargain prices who cares?

It was a mistake for Nixon to recognise China, IMO. Terrible man.

14 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I personally think the biggest events that influenced Western thinking was the 1997 handover and China's entry to the WTO.

 

I think collective wisdom at the time was that China at that time would evolve to look more like Hong Kong.

 

Trouble is, exactly the opposite has happened.

 

China has, and continued to abuse its WTO membership to the detriment of its trading partners.

 

Stolen IP, currency manipulation, sweat shop labor, yet the corporate giants across the Western World were quiet so long as the stock price went up.

 

Well now its time to tally up the cost for all of that corporate avarice

I remember reading at the time China offered tax breaks and such to US companies incorporating an office in China? That were later reneged. And then all sorts of lovelies like the reverse merger scams: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7215388/

 

CCP is a bully. The way you deal with bullies is you give them a bloody nose and send them packing home. They'll grow up to be a lone loser that beats their wife, let North Korea do the wife's role. Isolate and let Chinese either take care of the CCP ( Mussolini style would be good, including all the internet wumaos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini#Mussolini's_corpse ) or let the country implode like CCCP did.

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by DrTuner

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Let's just take all the west's factories and relocate industry to home countries. If people can't buy junk at bargain prices who cares?

It was a mistake for Nixon to recognise China, IMO. Terrible man.

 

There's no "the West". There's no "us". There's no such cohesion, nor unity which allow for such moves. And unless you missed it, the Big Chief of "the West" isn't good at playing with others, including supposed and potential allies of the same side.

 

As for moving and relocating factories, never mind the "home countries" bit, it easier said than done. You may not care people can't buy stuff at bargain prices, but somehow I guess many of "the people" do care.

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Let's just take all the west's factories and relocate industry to home countries. If people can't buy junk at bargain prices who cares?

It was a mistake for Nixon to recognise China, IMO. Terrible man.

People do.

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

As for moving and relocating factories, never mind the "home countries" bit, it easier said than done. You may not care people can't buy stuff at bargain prices, but somehow I guess many of "the people" do care.

It's doable and needs to be done soon in any case: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/archive/fourth-industrial-revolution . Replace CCP with local robots and the commies will implode.

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

I remember reading at the time China offered tax breaks and such to US companies incorporating an office in China? That were later reneged. And then all sorts of lovelies like the reverse merger scams: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7215388/

 

CCP is a bully. The way you deal with bullies is you give them a bloody nose and send them packing home. They'll grow up to be a lone loser that beats their wife, let North Korea do the wife's role. Isolate and let Chinese either take care of the CCP ( Mussolini style would be good, including all the internet wumaos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini#Mussolini's_corpse ) or let the country implode like CCCP did.

Hmmm...What other bully might your recommendations apply to?

Thailand could pick up a lot of China’s business.  The payback for CCP’s belligerence and their Wuhan virus could be astronomical.  Of course, to begin to compete for the massive changeover, BoT would have to adjust the USD/Baht to a more competitive level.

8 minutes ago, galenflagler said:

Hmmm...What other bully might your recommendations apply to?

Plenty to choose from, including the ex-KGB agent and a real estate mogul. World is not in a good shape.

The gigs up china.  
The world is onto your lies, stealing and cheating at any cost for power/control and money.  
You have shown the world you can't play well with others, the list of dirty deeds is long.    

20 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There's no "the West". There's no "us". There's no such cohesion, nor unity which allow for such moves. And unless you missed it, the Big Chief of "the West" isn't good at playing with others, including supposed and potential allies of the same side.

 

As for moving and relocating factories, never mind the "home countries" bit, it easier said than done. You may not care people can't buy stuff at bargain prices, but somehow I guess many of "the people" do care.

Strange how "the people" want to buy junk from China at cheap prices, but complain when their aren't any factory jobs for people to do and unemployment rises.

Edited July 24, 20205 yr by thaibeachlovers

20 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Thailand could pick up a lot of China’s business.  The payback for CCP’s belligerence and their Wuhan virus could be astronomical.  Of course, to begin to compete for the massive changeover, BoT would have to adjust the USD/Baht to a more competitive level.

Really? Thailand is already short of workers.

Perhaps Burma or Cambodia would be able to though- that's where most of the imported labour comes from.

Edited July 24, 20205 yr by thaibeachlovers

20 hours ago, DrTuner said:

It's doable and needs to be done soon in any case: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/archive/fourth-industrial-revolution . Replace CCP with local robots and the commies will implode.

AI robotics is almost upon us and still there is no plan by governments as how to deal with it. It's going to change everything even more than the industrial revolution.

AI robotics can eliminate almost all human workers, so those that want to can buy junk at cheap prices, though they may have a problem paying for it while on the fictitious "living wage".

On 7/22/2020 at 11:16 PM, billd766 said:

IMHO if that were to happen, then the price of goods made in the USA will probably xost 50 or 100% more than they do now and the price of Iphones will be out of the reach of 90% of the buyers.

 

Building new factories would be quite reasonable and for many it would mean short term jobsbut staffing the factories might be a harder task as there are fewer skilled people left now and they will be older and probably jump at the chance ofowrning again. The biggest problem would be the extra cost and the subsequent loss of profit to the shsreholders as after all, that is one big reason why the companies went offshore in the first place.

 

I don't think that the US government can afford the extra cost since Covid hit the USA puttimg millions of workers out of jobs

I dream of a bright new world where Apple goes bankrupt and "they" can't buy their infernal machines- just dreaming though.

The biggest problem would be the extra cost and the subsequent loss of profit to the shsreholders as after all, that is one big reason why the companies went offshore in the first place.

That'd make me and lots of people very happy.

staffing the factories might be a harder task as there are fewer skilled people left now

No need for staff assembling anything anymore- just build enough robots. It's happening already. In China peasants work for less than the cost of building the robots- which is why corporations moved there- to exploit the peasants. Think of that next time buying something made in China.

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

snip

The biggest problem would be the extra cost and the subsequent loss of profit to the shsreholders as after all, that is one big reason why the companies went offshore in the first place.

That'd make me and lots of people very happy.

staffing the factories might be a harder task as there are fewer skilled people left now

No need for staff assembling anything anymore- just build enough robots. It's happening already. In China peasants work for less than the cost of building the robots- which is why corporations moved there- to exploit the peasants. Think of that next time buying something made in China.

The problem with robots doing the work is that fewer staff would be required, that then means more unemployed which would then mean less customers with money to buy the products.

 

OTOH robots don't need tea, meal or toilet breaks, they won't go on strike, demand higher wages, nor will they need a pension or health plans.

 

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The problem with robots doing the work is that fewer staff would be required, that then means more unemployed which would then mean less customers with money to buy the products.

 

OTOH robots don't need tea, meal or toilet breaks, they won't go on strike, demand higher wages, nor will they need a pension or health plans.

 

I did point that out a few posts back. I doubt the <deleted> that run corporations care if they don't employ anyone. After all they only care about money, and they'd make a killing before they run out of customers.

 

If anyone thinks the current riots are bad, they ain't seen nuffin' yet.

35 minutes ago, billd766 said:

they won't go on strike, demand higher wages, nor will they need a pension or health plans.

Sounds like the Chinese factory workers pumping out cheap junk for western consumers. The corporate boards will be weeping into their $1000 wine contemplating the cost of robots when they have to leave China, which can't come soon enough for me.

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The problem with robots doing the work is that fewer staff would be required, that then means more unemployed which would then mean less customers with money to buy the products.

 

OTOH robots don't need tea, meal or toilet breaks, they won't go on strike, demand higher wages, nor will they need a pension or health plans.

From which we come to the conclusion there are too many people on earth. You only need enough to operate a functioning society and with robots, that'll be less. A lot less. Like 3/4 of the current world population less. 

 

China will be a loser in the 4th industrial revolution, since robots are cheaper than peasants and you need far less logistics and won't have to support commie regimes (Unless somebody puts a Marx virus into SkyNet). 

Edited July 24, 20205 yr by DrTuner

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

From which we come to the conclusion there are too many people on earth. You only need enough to operate a functioning society and with robots, that'll be less. A lot less. Like 3/4 of the current world population less. 

 

China will be a loser in the 4th industrial revolution, since robots are cheaper than peasants and you need far less logistics and won't have to support commie regimes (Unless somebody puts a Marx virus into SkyNet). 

Lots of posters here seem to be opining like it's the year 2000 or even earlier

What does it tell you that China is now the world's largest market for automobiles? Do you think that a nation the economy of which mainly depended on producing low value goods could afford to be purchasing automobiles on such a large scale? Your notion of an economy powered mainly by peasant labor is long past its due date.

11 minutes ago, galenflagler said:

Do you think that a nation the economy of which mainly depended on producing low value goods could afford to be purchasing automobiles on such a large scale? 

Over 1B people, if none would able to buy a car it really would be Mao time again. All authoritarian regimes like to beat the drum on how large and healthy their middle class is - it's domestic propaganda.

Edited July 24, 20205 yr by DrTuner

23 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Over 1B people, if none would able to buy a car it really would be Mao time again. All authoritarian regimes like to beat the drum on how large and healthy their middle class is - it's domestic propaganda.

It's not a matter of propaganda that China is the largest automobile market in the world. Anyway, China is no longer classified as a developing nations Economist now call it a middle income nation. One way we know this is that low value-added business such as the garment industry have been abandoning China for Vietnam and Bangladesh. Labor has gotten too expensive in China.

China  going to have lots of problems making it to the ranks of the economically developed nations.  Money losing government subsidized business are taking a larger share of the economy. And they're being subsidized not just by the government but by banks and private businesses at the none too subtle insistence of the government. But that's a different discussion.

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Strange how "the people" want to buy junk from China at cheap prices, but complain when their aren't any factory jobs for people to do and unemployment rises.

 

It's not strange at all. People can have different wishes, or even hold conflicting ones. That usually the can't have it all or both ways, it another matter. People also fail to acknowledge, or even outright deny obvious connections between causes and effects, facts and whole lot of other things.

On 7/21/2020 at 5:07 PM, GinBoy2 said:

Never underestimate the lure of commercial greed.

 

Even after I was detained by China police demanding I reveal intranet passwords, my company continued to do business in China, basically because they wanted the money that was to be made. It rather sickened me a little. 

I often speculated how my CEO would have reacted to being in that detention cell for 3 days!

 

When I went to work every day in Zhangjiang I'd pass the huge German Center, and a host of other Western company buildings. I'd wonder if any of them would have qualms about dealing with China. 

 

And the answer clearly was NO

Well I expect your pay way good .... ???? ... as it is for most expats working in China ... and quite a few of them in China .....  I assume you did not get water boarded or had electrode fitted to precious body parts ... Detention for 3 days at full company pay .....