Nearly one in six Britons would refuse Covid-19 vaccine

[drbeach]

Anyway, to sort of make some final comments here.

 

Firstly, if only "nearly 1 in 6" Britons, which means around 15%, since 1 in 6 would be 16.67%, are concerned about safety of a rushed vaccine, that should be nothing to worry about for most pro-vaxxers or governments that want to push this shot on the population at large. It shows that a large majority of the population blindly trusts authority, even in our home countries.

 

As has repeatedly been stated in the comments here, including from some less emotional pro-vaxxers, herd immunity may range from say 60% up to 95%. It's never 100%. I may have mentioned already that for this future covid shot, I've seen various references to a 60-70% figure being made in various media, from the USA to Australia. 100% is an unrealistic not to mention unnecessary goal.

 

Yinn thinks the authorities are going to chase down every last Thai, down to forest dwellers living in the remotest corners of Thailand and forcibly inject them. Even under the most tyrannical scenario, I don't see that happening since it would require unrealistically large resources and in the absence of an electronic tracking system there's no way of achieving this goal. Besides, this country, with the additional resources it has gained to "fight" this "pandemic" doesn't even have the ability to effectively police the border to prevent migrant laborers from neighboring countries from coming in. Some are caught (the ones we read/hear about in the media) but many more probably make it across successfully. It can't control the death toll on the roads or a lot of other things too.

 

Lastly for as much as many Thais seem to be easy to manipulate especially in a time of panic, I have yet to see many Thais be as passionate about taking away the rights of their fellow citizens and preach an extremely polarized position as she/he whoever this "Yinn" person is. Such rhetoric is unfortunately very common back home in our countries and the media does it's part.

 

In fact, in Thailand the mainstream media still occasionally reports on vaccine injuries. There was one report I overheard on the TV news when I was sitting inside a restaurant up in northern Thailand sometime around September last year. It was about a baby who's legs became "floppy" after receiving a vaccination (might have been a tetanus shot, can't remember now). Such a report wouldn't be allowed to air on Australian TV anymore, and unlikely to make it onto any of the mainstream TV channels in the USA either (perhaps the local ones would allow it). In America (I have access to American cable TV here) you have HPV vaccination commercials and all manner of pharmaceutical advertising, which is banned in Thailand. From what i understand, only over the counter pain medications like "Sara" can be advertised on Thai TV. Herbal and alternative medicines seem to be OK though.

 

So I think the overall vaccine narrative in Thailand is still a long way behind that in the west. It's easy however for someone trying to create spin to cherry pick stories like some guy in America who refused to wear a mask and punched a bus driver when he was asked to get off, while ignoring similar stories happening locally (a point I raised previously).

 

Anyway, I think this topic is now done for me. Especially when we have a troll that tries to speak for Thai people who probably isn't even Thai and apparently has multiple aliases. We're wasting our time continuing here.

[checkered flag]

49 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The medical community using the term loony?

Yeah, Right. Try Troll instead; and for any that haven't noticed this thread is being steered by a male troll masquerading as a female and another with at least 2 aliases in this thread who has been outed multiple times elsewhere.

 

Methinks it's time the bored wised up.

 

You need to dumb down terms so you and others will get it. I guess it worked.

[checkered flag]

47 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Yinn is what Thais call ผีบ้า. She thinks everyone should stop thinking for themselves and just obey, obey, obey as they teach Thai kids in public schools that are amongst the worst in SE Asia. Just listen to propaganda and be a drone, never mind there are doctors who themselves don't believe the propaganda. People like her are very very easy to manipulate. It's hilarious!

 

No wonder Thailand's economy is going down the toilet. Factories are closing, stores, restaurants, businesses are never going to re-open. She thinks business owners will take a vaccine to be allowed to re-open, even though a vaccine may never happen and even if it does, it will be years before a viable one is in place. Not to mention businesses won't last that long. The worst is far from over. Many businesses will shut down in the coming months even if there is no second lockdown. Suicides are far higher than the measly death toll attributed to this "virus". Some of these deaths aren't necessary even correlated with or caused by the virus to begin with. I listened to the news conference in the car on my way to Laos in early March about the first death. The spokesperson repeatedly insisted that the individual who died was already sick and he passed away WITH covid not FROM covid. Big difference. Same thing that's been happening in the USA. And don't get me started on the 50-60 traffic deaths daily in Thailand. And that's probably an underestimate.

 

Anyway, as I've repeatedly stated to no avail it seems, any vaccine requirement will NOT be implemented in the way she thinks. There is not even any mandatory vaccination legislation in Thailand, other than a vague reference in a pandemic situation ONLY. That said, a vaccine will almost certainly NOT arrive before the pandemic is declared as over. Here are some resources which state this: https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/resources

And no wonder why other countries have a serious problem with Covid19. Getting Brits or Americans to comply with simple decencies seems impossible.  Saying that they refuse to get a vaccine to save others is plain selfish. 

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, drbeach said:

...

Anyway, I think this topic is now done for me. Especially when we have a troll that tries to speak for Thai people who probably isn't even Thai and apparently has multiple aliases. We're wasting our time continuing here.

Thanks for these to-the-point comments.

I think this thread and the often heated discussions it triggered as well as the overview of arguments for and against covid-19 mass-vaccination, is not useless.

Even if it only results in one person reconsidering the issue and looking into other sources of information than what the majority of media and 'scientific studies' (both being paid and sponsored by Big Pharma) are constantly trying to push, that would have been worth the effort.

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I'll bet they require it when you do a border run. Probably both wants (in and out). Best to get a certificate (legit one) before you  attempt a border hop. If not a border hop, I'm sure immigration will add this to their list.

Then nobody will be able to do a border-run, because - thank god - the vaccine is not available yet.  You are sure and you want to bet a covid-19 vaccine shot will be required by border-immigration?  Big Question - WHEN?  Not this year, and most probably not even next year.

[hotandsticky]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Then nobody will be able to do a border-run, because - thank god - the vaccine is not available yet.  You are sure and you want to bet a covid-19 vaccine shot will be required by border-immigration?  Big Question - WHEN?  Not this year, and most probably not even next year.

 

I really do think that it is quite possible that Thailand will not allow mass tourism until a vaccine is available.

 

That wipes out 2020/21 high season as far as international tourists are concerned- but the authorities are not concerned about that, they want to keep zero domestic cases at all costs.

 

Songkran 2021 would be my wild guess.

[checkered flag]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I really do think that it is quite possible that Thailand will not allow mass tourism until a vaccine is available.

 

That wipes out 2020/21 high season as far as international tourists are concerned- but the authorities are not concerned about that, they want to keep zero domestic cases at all costs.

 

Songkran 2021 would be my wild guess.

I don't enjoy going places with a lot of tourist. I think I corrupts a lot of Thais looking for an easy buck. For my own selfish reasons the lack of tourism is a plus. Those dependent on foreign tourist will need to make adjustments. It will be the same in many areas of the world, IMO.

[checkered flag]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Then nobody will be able to do a border-run, because - thank god - the vaccine is not available yet.  You are sure and you want to bet a covid-19 vaccine shot will be required by border-immigration?  Big Question - WHEN?  Not this year, and most probably not even next year.

Those that rely on easy in and out visas might be  SOL. The tone of the immigration extension seems to be changing and they're advising changing visa types or going home. They could make another grace period but with a big could. I don't see >30 days however. It will most likely depend on if there are flights out or not.

[Bender Rodriguez]

21 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

No need to argue with them that's for sure.  5.000 THB under the counter will surely do the trick to have the shot nicely deposed in the bin, and me walking away with the Vac-certificate.

if they allow a COP KILLER to go free, what will they do with people who will not want to be vaxxed against their will ?

[checkered flag]

4 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

if they allow a COP KILLER to go free, what will they do with people who will not want to be vaxxed against their will ?

Easy, if a foreigner they'll get deported.

[Bender Rodriguez]

22 hours ago, Why Me said:

This thread is breaking my heart for folks like Peter and Bender and Tea and inno and others. If only the mods would set up a separate forum they and their fellow loons wouldn't have to suffer abuse and mockery from the rest of us.

 

I am torn. On the one hand, I feel compassion for the simple and on the other I wish they weren't. Simple I mean. Peter, come close to the monitor. I am going to reach out through the internet and give you a hug.

for us informed people, not the sheeple, you are the one to pity (the fool)

 

you sheeple believe blindly that the 1 business in the world

- that cannot be sued

- that mandates everybody to be forcefully injected with untested chemicals

- that does not care for your health or that of your children

- that most people are brainwashed in believing it is for the greater good

- that is actually works

- that after 10+ years there is no other corona vaccine ever made that works

 

that suddenly, in a rushed vaccine rush, that is worth hundreds of billions of dollars of profit

 

that said big pharma, that only wants more profits, will care, what happens to you, your body, your immune, right now, in 1 year, in 5 years, in 10 years, ... nobody knows

 

this vaccine program is like blind faith

 

and I am an atheist, that more than probably did read 100x more websites about ingredients, side effects, than you sheeple, the blind believers ... in a vaccine, that does not exist

[Bender Rodriguez]

21 hours ago, drbeach said:

Your authoritarian tone is what's endangering others. And none of what you are saying is even close to true. All those diseases had declined to almost zero BEFORE vaccines for them came into use.

so true, but don't try to make sheeple believe that

 

the whole polio was on the way out, and studies link it to the use of DDT, remember, spray on everything and everybody, which was the rise, 1 year later, of "polio"

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ddt+use+linked+to+polio

 

glyphosate, 'monsanto',  producers of agent orange, is the new DDT

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=glyphosate+the+new+DDT

 

yeah, call us anti-vaxxers, actually, we are informed instead of blindly believing propaganda

 

 

[checkered flag]

3 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

for us informed people, not the sheeple, you are the one to pity (the fool)

 

you sheeple believe blindly that the 1 business in the world

- that cannot be sued

- that mandates everybody to be forcefully injected with untested chemicals

- that does not care for your health or that of your children

- that most people are brainwashed in believing it is for the greater good

- that is actually works

- that after 10+ years there is no other corona vaccine ever made that works

 

that suddenly, in a rushed vaccine rush, that is worth hundreds of billions of dollars of profit

 

that said big pharma, that only wants more profits, will care, what happens to you, your body, your immune, right now, in 1 year, in 5 years, in 10 years, ... nobody knows

 

this vaccine program is like blind faith

 

and I am an atheist, that more than probably did read 100x more websites about ingredients, side effects, than you sheeple, the blind believers ... in a vaccine, that does not exist

It's a total waste of time reading this garbage from someone without a clue. You are simply arguing and not convincing anyone. Do you have an ego problem or something? But I really don't want to know.

[CorpusChristie]

12 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

so true, but don't try to make sheeple believe that

 

the whole polio was on the way out, and studies link it to the use of DDT, remember, spray on everything and everybody, which was the rise, 1 year later, of "polio"

 

World Polio rates only began decreasing after a vaccine was invented , and the only two Countries now where its prevalent are Afghanistan and Pakistan , Countries where some people refuse to get vaccinated  

[rabas]

16 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

so true, but don't try to make sheeple believe that

 

the whole polio was on the way out, and studies link it to the use of DDT, remember, spray on everything and everybody, which was the rise, 1 year later, of "polio"

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ddt+use+linked+to+polio

 

glyphosate, 'monsanto',  producers of agent orange, is the new DDT

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=glyphosate+the+new+DDT

 

yeah, call us anti-vaxxers, actually, we are informed instead of blindly believing propaganda

Can you provide actual links to your conspiracy theories, rather than googling buzzwords?  I can't find anything.

 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

14 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

It's a total waste of time reading this garbage from someone without a clue. You are simply arguing and not convincing anyone. Do you have an ego problem or something? But I really don't want to know.

lol... I spend many hours per day to read/listen to many different sources and books

 

but you sound like my most thai ex-wifes ... thinking to know more than other people that have it as a more than serious hobby to read about health all day...

 

in USA :  big pharma can advertise directly to the sheeple, which is not allow anywhere in the world, except in NZ !

 

big pharma owns the television stations / networks with their advertisement budget

 

independent news does not exist, as if one journalist would dare to bring news against big pharma's interest, the channel would be financially bankrupt, but the editor will just block that news, otherwise some heads will roll

 

now, if you don't have the 2 brain cells left to understand this game of interests...  I pity you and continue to watch your sheeple programs of blind trust

 

the government does such a great job right, look at the economy (before covid19) ... why would you trust they do any better with a pandemic and your health, they are just following the people appointed by the industry

 

only 1 percent of injuries is reported to VAERS, but you probably will have to google what VAERS means

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=only+1+percent+of+injuries+is+reported+to+VAERS

[Bender Rodriguez]

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

World Polio rates only began decreasing after a vaccine was invented , and the only two Countries now where its prevalent are Afghanistan and Pakistan , Countries where some people refuse to get vaccinated  

again, not true ...  clean water, hygiene & SEWER systems, in stead of taking a s... in the streets

 

there is a polio / DDT link

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=polio+%2F+DDT+link

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

13 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

World Polio rates only began decreasing after a vaccine was invented , and the only two Countries now where its prevalent are Afghanistan and Pakistan , Countries where some people refuse to get vaccinated  

yeah, those are clean places with hygiene, good sewer system, right ?

 

in place with no hygiene, off course it will spread, same as it did before in "civilized" countries without public health measures (clean water, closed sewer system, ...)

 

but believe what you want

[Bender Rodriguez]

12 minutes ago, rabas said:

Can you provide actual links to your conspiracy theories, rather than googling buzzwords?  I can't find anything.

 

 

they can cure ugly but they can't cure stupid

 

the links are included there to explore, unless I OWN all the google results, websites, etc...

[Bender Rodriguez]

for the slow people:

 

According to a report compiled by the Secretary of the Interior that was presented before the 85th Congress back in 1958, polio really only became a problem after the 1940s, when chemical companies began to produce large amounts of DDT, heptachlor, dieldrin, tetraethyl pyrophosphate (TEPP), malathion, benzene hexachloride (BHC) and other pesticide chemicals for use on agricultural crops. Prior to that time, polio was not nearly as virulent or problematic as many people believe it was.

As DDT and other pesticides were eventually phased out, cases of polio also began to decline, which suggests that vaccines may not have been primarily responsible for eradicating polio. Improvements in sanitation, which are hardly ever mentioned by mainstream health authorities, also played a major role in eradicating polio.

 

https://worldhealth.net/forum/topic/673/#:~:text=As part of a trivia,outbreaks across the United States.

Pesticide-contaminated milk also responsible for polio outbreaks

[CorpusChristie]

8 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

again, not true ...  clean water, hygiene & SEWER systems, in stead of taking a s... in the streets

 

there is a polio / DDT link

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=polio+%2F+DDT+link

 

There have been various outbreaks of Polio over the years , thus cases rise and fall per year.

Polio cases were falling in the few years before the vaccine was introduced  , but the vaccine stopped any further outbreaks (once everyone had their vaccines )

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

for the slow people:

 

According to a report compiled by the Secretary of the Interior that was presented before the 85th Congress back in 1958, polio really only became a problem after the 1940s, when chemical companies began to produce large amounts of DDT, heptachlor, dieldrin, tetraethyl pyrophosphate (TEPP), malathion, benzene hexachloride (BHC) and other pesticide chemicals for use on agricultural crops. Prior to that time, polio was not nearly as virulent or problematic as many people believe it was.

As DDT and other pesticides were eventually phased out, cases of polio also began to decline, which suggests that vaccines may not have been primarily responsible for eradicating polio. Improvements in sanitation, which are hardly ever mentioned by mainstream health authorities, also played a major role in eradicating polio.

 

https://worldhealth.net/forum/topic/673/#:~:text=As part of a trivia,outbreaks across the United States.

Pesticide-contaminated milk also responsible for polio outbreaks

I see that you are a renowned virologist and an expert on viral diseases. Where did you accumulable such a thorough knowledge? Perhaps from the National Enquirer or like publication. Your life must be very fulfilling spending countless hours doing research or maybe you're off your meds.

[Bender Rodriguez]

28 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I see that you are a renowned virologist and an expert on viral diseases. Where did you accumulable such a thorough knowledge? Perhaps from the National Enquirer or like publication. Your life must be very fulfilling spending countless hours doing research or maybe you're off your meds.

 

good reading:

 

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Why+Most+Published+Research+Findings+Are+False

 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

33 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I see that you are a renowned virologist and an expert on viral diseases. Where did you accumulable such a thorough knowledge? Perhaps from the National Enquirer or like publication. Your life must be very fulfilling spending countless hours doing research or maybe you're off your meds.

 

Are you a DDT denialist ?

 

a person who does not acknowledge the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence; a denier.

[checkered flag]

12 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

Are you a DDT denialist ?

 

a person who does not acknowledge the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence; a denier.

Actually DDT house spraying was very effective in malaria control because it lasted a long time (long half life). When it was banned the cases increased. It was not sprayed in the air but under houses (under the floor) That's why you see dates on the sides of old houses. In the general environment it was bad and in man stores in fat cells.

[Yinn]

44 minutes ago, 473geo said:

The input, humour, resilience and perspective of Yinn is welcomed.

I doubt any person who is honest, forthright, and active, in forum debates, can claim to be here to make friends. Although there are always those who attempt to please the 'crowd'

Interesting is the anti vaxers opinions would make them Trump supporters in terms of conflict with WHO opinion - perhaps why they are not finding many 'friends' in some quarters

About 8 anti vaxxers, anti maskers, anti Yinners. 

About 40 sensible. 

= 1 in 6 TVF members refuse vaccine. 

 

The 1 in 6  just 80% the comment. 

 

March 29 DrBeach 

“With all the intrusive checkpoints, face mask wearing laws and thermo scanners everywhere, I'm not going out unless absolutely necessary (other than within my local community) until at least May or whenever these measures are loosened. It's scary to be living under martial law. The 'virus' is nothing, but the control system...now that's frightening. Plus the way locals are being suspicious of each other and foreigners to boot. Doesn't make a good mix. We'll just have to ride it out until things start looking better.”

 

He complain the checkpoint, the mask, the thermo scanners= everything.

He say i xenophobia, but is only 1 in 6 I want leave Thailand. 

Anti vaxxer, anti thermo scannerer. 

1 in 6 is to many for control covid. People like this is spreader.

 

i live Ranong, border with Burma.

I KNOW immigration is already talk about test Burmese if they come Thailand.

I KNOW that. His long, long post about that =BS.

I KNOW. He imagine his conspiracy.

 

Conspiracy about vaccine, about mask, about thermo scanner, about government control, about Thai people xenophobia, about Yinn. ????

 

Conspiracy loon. Not helpful control covid.

 

Good luck return quickly 473geo. Farangs same you ALWAYS be welcome to Thailand. High knowledge polite guy.

 

Be careful, some selfish people in the world. Because this people, YOU will must wait more before return Thailand. Not fair.

[rabas]

4 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

5 hours ago, rabas said:

Can you provide actual links to your conspiracy theories, rather than googling buzzwords?  I can't find anything.

they can cure ugly but they can't cure stupid

 

the links are included there to explore, unless I OWN all the google results, websites, etc...

So the answer is no. You have no reputable link to your conspiracy theories. I knew. Your only reference is to a known Conspiracy-Pseudoscience website.  worldhealth.net fact check

 

Here is real science from the renowned Lancet journal all about polio and the vaccine.  https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(13)61108-3.pdf

 

Williams describes the many blind alleys and false leads of the early days of polio research, when doctors, scientists, and public health officials were convinced that the disease was transmitted by bedbugs, budgies, cats, and flies, or caused by seafood, cow’s milk, jimson weed, fruit, vegetables, and DDT, or that it was more likely to attack children who were “plump and well nourished, with a broad face, freckles, and gaps between their teeth”. Williams tells us about Benjamin Sandler who claimed that polio was caused by too much sugar, which prompted a dramatic drop in sales of ice cream, cookies, and Coca Cola in Asheville, North Carolina.  ...

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by rabas

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and replies have been removed

[Bender Rodriguez]

if people here think DDT was so good & safe, why most of the world banned it ?

 

it still is pollution to this day even banned for years/decades

 

so people will never learn, even with the truth in their face, but ok, the world needs people like that too, sadly

[7fish]

On 7/22/2020 at 3:25 AM, JonnyF said:

Also a great thing, there must be consequences to refusing. Otherwise vaccins will never work. 

What if the main players touting vaccines are lying? As claimed in this article:

 

'America’s Frontline Doctors stormed into Washington D.C. today to host their first annual White Coat Summit on Capitol Hill to combat the misinformation and propaganda on COVID being fed to the American people through the corporate media,'

 

http://tapnewswire.com/2020/07/nobody-needs-to-die-frontline-doctors-storm-d-c-claiming-thousands-of-doctors-are-being-silenced-on-facts-and-treatments-for-covid/