Nearly one in six Britons would refuse Covid-19 vaccine

[drbeach]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nothing to do with communism, just not selfish like the anti vaxers. 

Nope, you are using emotions to justify your stance. Your thinking is very much in line with Collectivism or Communism, whatever you want to call it.

[innosiem]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nothing to do with communism, just not selfish like the anti vaxers. 

but you are selfish, as you do not want others to have a choice
everything is fine as long as it is what YOU want, regardless of what others may want.

IMO you are the "free rider"
you expect others who consciously take care of their bodies and have strong immune systems, to be injected with stuff they do not need
so you can have a free ride and not take on such responsibility of your own body

the "virus" is not a threat to myself, as i have a strong immune system
i should not have to bare the responsibility for those who choose to be reckless with their own health and bodies

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, innosiem said:

but you are selfish, as you do not want others to have a choice
everything is fine as long as it is what YOU want, regardless of what others may want.

IMO you are the "free rider"
you expect others who consciously take care of their bodies and have strong immune systems, to be injected with stuff they do not need
so you can have a free ride and not take on such responsibility of your own body

the "virus" is not a threat to myself, as i have a strong immune system
i should not have to bare the responsibility for those who choose to reckless with their own health and bodies

????

 

Again i explained it countless times as have others mr free ride.

 

By not vaccinating you put the ones that did vaccinate but had no response to them at risk and those who genuinely cant be vaccinated too. But in the mean time you would benefit from opening borders and trade ect. So you are a free ride person as are all other anti vaxers.

 

I eat healthy exercise a lot probably also not much chance to get the virus. I take it so just in case i cant give it to someone else. (unlike you who does not care he risks others)

 

Same why i use a mask.. to protect others.

Edited July 24, 2020 by robblok

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Nope, you are using emotions to justify your stance. Your thinking is very much in line with Collectivism or Communism, whatever you want to call it.

Right.. ????

 

Again those not taking it risking others like people who are vaccinated but dont respond and those who really cant take it. At the same time they do benefit from the better economy and free travel. I call that selfish. Anyway i keep repeating myself to the anti vaxers. It becomes boring. 

[innosiem]

Just now, robblok said:

????

 

Again i explained it countless times as have others mr free ride.

 

By not vaccinating you put the ones that did vaccinate but had no response to them at risk and those who genuinely cant be vaccinated too. But in the mean time you would benefit from opening borders and trade ect. So you are a free ride person as are all other anti vaxers.

 

I eat healthy exercise a lot probably also not much chance to get the virus. I take it so just in case i cant give it to someone else. (unlike you who does not care he risks others)

you also state
everyone must get the vaccinated to protect those who cannot be vaccinated????‍♂️
just put me down as a +1 on the latter

for myself to go along with the herd
the herd would first need to stop alcohol drugs and any other toxins they ingest
eat healthy, exercise, ban ALL refined sugars and seed oils
until this happens the herd can go spin

[drbeach]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Right.. just look at the measures they have in place now.. far stronger then other countries. So yes i see it happening. 

It's all about creating fear in the population. You don't understand Thailand well if you believe that. The country is not very effective at top to bottom control, unlike Vietnam and I don't believe there is any legislation in place in this country, that would make it possible to impose mass vaccinations.

 

Call me a "conspiracy theorist" if you want, but there are several factors particular to Thailand that make mandatory vaccination less of a likelihood in Thailand than several other nearby countries. And even if they did impose a mandatory requirement, you could always pay off a doctor to sign a vaccination certificate. Corruption is not going away in this country anytime soon.

 

Some countries like the USA which is widely considered a "free country" have far more stringent laws on the books - including mandatory vaccines for school children since the 1960s. Thailand didn't even have a vaccination program until 1977. In the early 80s, non-medical exemptions to vaccinations became available in the USA to exempt one's children from shots.

 

Unfortunately, in more recent years several states have eliminated these exemptions to the point that in California, it's almost impossible to exempt a child from vaccine requirements. ALL doses of EVERY vaccine is required to put your child through school there. Missing even one dose of one shot is considered being "unvaccinated". The only opt out is homeschooling...but this confirms my point - in America you have work arounds to the system, despite being strict if you want to take part in it.

 

That's how I see things happening in Thailand too IF a vaccine mandate were to be implemented, it wouldn't be across the board since that's difficult to enforce, but in order to participate in various aspects of society. Homeschooling is an option in Thailand so again, that's an opt-out for those not wanting to have their children vaccinated. On the other hand, keeping your children home from school on vaccination day is another way of doing it. Thailand is still very low tech and doesn't have the kind of record keeping western countries have.

[innosiem]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Anyway i keep repeating myself to the anti vaxers. It becomes boring.

it is a logical fallacy called Petitio principii????

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[drbeach]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

Right.. just look at the measures they have in place now.. far stronger then other countries. So yes i see it happening. 

And btw here is some evidence that the measures they have imposed (which are only enforced in malls and stores, but enforcement is starting to wane) has no particular bearing on the likelihood of a future mandatory vaccine mandate.

 

Let's call it the tale of 3 countries. The three countries I'm comparing are Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore.

 

Out of these, Thailand was the first to impose mask requirements in many public places, mostly around late March or early April (different provinces did different things). Singapore follows suit several weeks after Thailand, but with even more stringent enforcement. Malaysia will only now (August 1) make masks mandatory. Their justification for not doing so earlier was due to being concerned about the poor not being able to afford them.

Vaccines: Singapore has had a mandatory vaccine law for school children in place since 1965. Diphtheria and measles are required for school children and due to lack of corruption, there is essentially no way out. Not sure if homeschooling is legal in that country; in fact, my guess is it's probably not allowed. 

Malaysia: Last year Malaysia was mulling making vaccines mandatory too, but a decision was delayed until this year. The parliament decided to put off a decision due to the impact of covid back in March. Malaysia stated if vaccines became mandatory, it would likely be the same two shots currently compulsory in Singapore.

 

Thailand: no mandatory vaccine laws on the books - at public schools there is coercion to receive shots but my understanding is they give letters to parents who are then able to decide whether their children receive shots or not. Most parents, lacking the knowledge to make a decision and assuming that teachers and school administrators have their children's best interests at heart allow it. All the kids get vaccinated in a line like a herd of cattle, no checking of names or what, which would be too tedious and time consuming.

 

Some children don't attend school on vaccination day, or they hide in the toilets. It's best for parents who don't consent to having their children vaccinated, to keep their children at home on such days. Irrespective, it's not a legal requirement in Thailand. Not yet anyway.

 

While I can't predict the future, I still maintain that despite everything, Thailand is unlikely to make vaccines mandatory across the board. And for the record, the lockdowns were far more draconian in the Philippines, several other Asian countries and most Latin American countries than Thailand. Aside from in Phuket for a short period, most Thais and foreigners alike were free to go about their business outside of the then curfew hours.

[Bender Rodriguez]

31 minutes ago, robblok said:

Right.. ????

 

Again those not taking it risking others like people who are vaccinated but dont respond and those who really cant take it. At the same time they do benefit from the better economy and free travel. I call that selfish. Anyway i keep repeating myself to the anti vaxers. It becomes boring. 

holland vaccination belt

 

alles in de armen, niks in de kop

[Bender Rodriguez]

18 minutes ago, drbeach said:

All the kids get vaccinated in a line like a herd of cattle, no checking of names or what, which would be too tedious and time consuming.

mine know to plainly refuse and come home if enforced or they can call me and I will rush to the school

 

we can pretend to go to private hospital & pay like ROBBLOK loves , but to bin it

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

a newborn child is injected with HEP B vaccine, a disease for hookers and drug IV users, on the day they are born

 

this is because the drug users & hookers were not interested in the vaccine, hence, forced upon newborns who don't even have the capability to detoxify it out of their body, as effective immune is only active after 6 months

 

but hey, you must follow what ROBBLOK say or you are a free loader

[transam]

52 minutes ago, innosiem said:

but you are selfish, as you do not want others to have a choice
everything is fine as long as it is what YOU want, regardless of what others may want.

IMO you are the "free rider"
you expect others who consciously take care of their bodies and have strong immune systems, to be injected with stuff they do not need
so you can have a free ride and not take on such responsibility of your own body

the "virus" is not a threat to myself, as i have a strong immune system
i should not have to bare the responsibility for those who choose to be reckless with their own health and bodies

 

 

"The virus is not a threat to myself as I have a strong immune system"............????

 

Funniest thing I have read in a long time.....................

[Surelynot]

Crack on.....natural selection......Darwin was correct.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

"The virus is not a threat to myself as I have a strong immune system"............????

Funniest thing I have read in a long time.....................

Please explain the Big Joke, that you find so funny.

And if it boils down to denying that your immune system is the key in protecting you from the virus, then don't bother.

 

[Surelynot]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

the "virus" is not a threat to myself, as i have a strong immune system

How are your mental faculties? They up to scratch? (innosiem NOT transam)

Edited July 24, 2020 by Surelynot

[innosiem]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How are your mental faculties? They up to scratch? (innosiem NOT transam)

????‍♂️

 

????

13 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Please explain the Big Joke, that you find so funny.

And if it boils down to denying that your immune system is the key in protecting you from the virus, then don't bother.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[paulikens]

1 in 6.... way more than that. does anyone take a flu vaccine NO bar the vulnerable. so why would they have this? and people wont take something that has just been rushed out.   vaccines take at least two years to develop not 6 months. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes I am ok with everyone taking it if they want to come to Thailand. By not having enough people take it its worthless. Free ride people should then not be allowed into Thailand. Whatever others decide in other countries is their choice (or that of the government). 

 

I am Thankful that they have a strong government in Thailand and that there is a high likelihood that they will make it mandatory. 

 

Those that won't take it risk others let them pay for their selfish attitude. 

I agree that a successful vaccination program involves the vast majority of people to become vaccinated and the herd effect takes care of eradicating a virus, or limiting its spread such that those who are unable to take the vaccine (for whatever reasons - complications etc) are protected. 

 

However, I am not thankful Thailand has a strong government, its a dictatorship and there are many wrongs and human rights abuses, Thailand has slipped down the rankings human rights list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Thailand)

 

I am very much for vaccination programs and believe them to be an effective tool in protecting society. 

I also believe in choice, but that freedom of choice should not come at the cost of the population - i.e. I don’t believe in the the freedom of someones choice to speed at 180kmh down the express way. 

 

In Western nations much of the freedom of choice involves education, people are educated and choose vaccination. This is where the Anti-Vaxxers come in with key words such as ’sheeple’, ‘Mainstream Media’ and bring up ‘control conspiracies’ - all rather paranoid and somewhat nutty.

 

That said, the protection of the population should not come at a price, and the ‘potential’ price of a vaccine rushed through testing and production is not yet known. 

 

 

 

In response to my comments a comparison may be drawn between how well western nations have performed through this Covid-19 crisis versus Thailand. I want to point out that the crisis is not over and this could play out over a few years. This is also a little different to ‘forcing’ a rushed vaccine on a population - I hope Thailand is smart enough not to do this and let people make their own choices.

 

I do note want to vaccinate my Son with a vaccine that may well have been rushed through. 

 

(Note: My family and I have had all other vaccinations and I’m happy about that, I am however sceptical of any Covid-19 Vaccine which is made available for the population within the next 18 months)

 

 

 

 

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, innosiem said:

see the post above yours
same applies.

It doesn't matter how good your immune system is...if you have a natural preponderance of the receptors the virus is looking for in your airways you will become ill...and might die or suffer long term effects.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Surelynot

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Please explain the Big Joke, that you find so funny.

And if it boils down to denying that your immune system is the key in protecting you from the virus, then don't bother.

 

How does anyone know how strong their immune system is..Take your time....?

[transam]

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How are your mental faculties? They up to scratch? (innosiem NOT transam)

Fine, thank you, but there is no way it can tell me how strong my immune system is, does yours, I mean, a print out or something   .......????

[drbeach]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I agree that a successful vaccination program involves the vast majority of people to become vaccinated and the herd effect takes care of eradicating a virus, or limiting its spread such that those who are unable to take the vaccine (for whatever reasons - complications etc) are protected. 

 

However, I am not thankful Thailand has a strong government, its a dictatorship and there are many wrongs and human rights abuses, Thailand has slipped down the rankings human rights list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Thailand)

 

I am very much for vaccination programs and believe them to be an effective tool in protecting society. 

I also believe in choice, but that freedom of choice should not come at the cost of the population - i.e. I don’t believe in the the freedom of someones choice to speed at 180kmh down the express way. 

 

In Western nations much of the freedom of choice involves education, people are educated and choose vaccination. This is where the Anti-Vaxxers come in with key words such as ’sheeple’, ‘Mainstream Media’ and bring up ‘control conspiracies’ - all rather paranoid and somewhat nutty.

 

That said, the protection of the population should not come at a price, and the ‘potential’ price of a vaccine rushed through testing and production is not yet known. 

 

 

 

In response to my comments a comparison may be drawn between how well western nations have performed through this Covid-19 crisis versus Thailand. I want to point out that the crisis is not over and this could play out over a few years. This is also a little different to ‘forcing’ a rushed vaccine on a population - I hope Thailand is smart enough not to do this and let people make their own choices.

 

I do note want to vaccinate my Son with a vaccine that may well have been rushed through. 

 

(Note: My family and I have had all other vaccinations and I’m happy about that, I am however sceptical of any Covid-19 Vaccine which is made available for the population within the next 18 months)

 

 

 

 

While I may disagree with you on some points, I am glad to read a more balanced less polarized viewpoint when it comes to this potential future covid-19 shot.

 

The right to choose and being concerned about a pandemic vaccine rushed through are very valid concerns to have. Which is why I've stated that while I believe the facts point more in one direction than the other, ultimately this debate needs to be had without resorting to emotion but sometimes having to point out uncomfortable truths.

 

And yes - most vaccination programs are about achieving a certain level of compliance, which is often easily in excess of the % required for "herd immunity" without making it mandatory.

 

Again, I am fairly confident, at this time, there will be a choice whether one receives this shot or not. I'm sure there will be plenty of people lining up to get it anyway, thus making it compulsory would be rather redundant. This is my gut feeling as of right now, so let's hope it turns out to be true.

[steelepulse]

16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How are your mental faculties? They up to scratch? (innosiem NOT transam)

Perhaps he's been educating himself about who gets affected and why and has done the right things to ensure that the virus will not affect him much, IF he contracts it.

[innosiem]

2 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

Perhaps he's been educating himself about who gets affected and why and has done the right things to ensure that the virus will not affect him much, IF he contracts it.

i was doing the "right things" way before this plandemic happened????

 

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

It doesn't matter how good your immune system is...if you have a natural preponderance of the receptors the virus is looking for in your airways you will become ill...and might die or suffer long term effects.

then so be it, i am all for natural selection to ensure the strengthening of the human species,
but please do provide the source for this information that states a strong immune system is pointless????‍♂️

[drbeach]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Fine, thank you, but there is no way it can tell me how strong my immune system is, does yours, I mean, a print out or something   .......????

Everyone's immune system is unique just as they are unique individuals that require tailored solutions for their own health problems. There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" approach to healthcare (even though that's what has been happening over the years) and similarly, no virus or germ is equally dangerous to every single person.

 

That's one of the major fallacies in the world today. We have to totally rethink old theories, like the germ theory because in practice, that's not how disease spreads. It's a great way of creating fear and advocating compliance in the population though.

[innosiem]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Fine, thank you, but there is no way it can tell me how strong my immune system is, does yours, I mean, a print out or something   .......????

you don't even know who you are replying too.....????‍♂️????

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

How does anyone know how strong their immune system is..Take your time....?

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Fine, thank you, but there is no way it can tell me how strong my immune system is, does yours, I mean, a print out or something   .......????

Small list:

- no chronic illnesses;

- not on meds;

- avoiding unhealthy food and polluted areas;

and an easy one

- generally feeling well and healthy.

But that's probably 'too much common sense' and a Test is needed to tell me what I know already. ????

Edited July 24, 2020 by Peter Denis

[transam]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Small list:

- no chronic illnesses;

- not on meds;

- avoiding unhealthy food and polluted areas;

and an easy one

- generally feeling well and healthy.

But that's probably 'too much common sense' and a Test is needed to tell me what I know already. ????

I am in disbelief with that......Suppose you also "know" you won't get cancer either...????

[transam]

4 minutes ago, innosiem said:

you don't even know who you are replying too.....????‍♂️????

Oh yes I do, a bloke that walks on water.....????

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, innosiem said:

i am all for natural selection to ensure the strengthening of the human species????‍♂️

Are you going to stop taking Antibiotics and refuse hospital treatment ???? If you are strong enough you strong genes will continue?... 

 

Unless you have already procreated, in which case, whatever you choose to do bears no impact on the strengthening of the human species !!!!