Germany rejects Trump's proposal to let Russia back into G7 - foreign minister

[Logosone]

12 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Agreed. 

(But remember that on ThaiVisa there are all too many who share the MSM's loathing of Trump, partly cos he's Trump, but partly because they take the side of all these Washington hangers-on whose livelihood depends on having an administration (doesn't matter whether GOP or DEM) that wants "business as usual"....which means having Russia as the "enemy" that justifies all the military expenditure that keeps the machine humming.  Almost by definition, rational analysis of American policy is impossible when so much personal stuff is at stake.)

Absolutely, the almost cartoonish fear of Russia in some American circles is obviously not shared by Trump, which is a good thing.

 

And I don't understand this vitriol against Trump by some either, it's almost like they met him personally and he punched them in the face.  Bizarre

[Logosone]

7 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

 

"Imagine the leader of Germany saying of a country like Russia, which has one of the most powerful militaries in the world that Germany can only dream about......"

Really??? Germany (with it's WW1/WW2 history) should look up to Russia because it's got a strong military? 

 

"What an insult to one of the great cultural agents of modernity."

Is that so? Russia, under Putin?? You must have a weird definition of the word "modernity"

 

"Shocking ignorance by this East German provincial pastor's offspring."

Is that the world's lamest attempt at an insult? Where's the insulting part? That she happened to be born in East Germany or that she happened to be born the daughter of a "provincial pastor"? Or is it the daughter part that galls you?

 

To be perfectly honest I believe that you are a Russian troll. Considering your fervent support of Russia and Trump it's hard to come to any other conclusion.

Oh, Germany absolutely needs a larger and stronger military. Maybe you missed American calls for just that? Or perhaps the recent German calls to reintroduce conscription?

 

But I see you're not only not on the pulse of current events, your conclusions are also way off. 

 

Of course, everyone who appreciates Russia's contributions to culture, Rachmaninov, Ballet, the periodic table, Pushkin and Tolstoy, has to be a Russian troll, what a very rational analysis, lol.

 

You need to try harder, Phoenix, in the rational analysis department. You're way off.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you Germany at least someone is holding Putin accountable the USA will be joining you rite after we change management here

Really?  This, as they buy Russian gas to spite USA attempts to block this.  I do not support the blocking of Nordstream II, but the hypocrisy of Germany in this is extraordinary.

 

And yes, if Biden wins, it will be all "Russia" talk, because they threw off Bolshevik rule (how DARE they), and didn't let the Transnationals take control of their mineral resources and social-norms. 

 

Meanwhile, back to the policy of NO accountability for China's actual violations of international law - seizing offshore terrritory, running sweatshops with forced-labor of an ethnic minority, no elections, disappearing political dissenters, etc.

 

That's not a Trump endorsement, btw, as he has not been nearly as open to mending relations with Russia, or harsh with containing China, as he should be.

Edited July 27, 2020 by JackThompson

[zig]

26 minutes ago, Logosone said:

And compare this insulting, cold sabotage on behalf of Merkel with the warm, excellent relationship Gerhard Schroeder and Putin had.

 

It is curious that you keep mentioning Gerhard Schroeder as a positive example. This is the same guy who soon after stepping down as the chancellor was nominated to a managing position in Gazprom and then later also to a director position in Rosneft. I think many would agree that he sold Germany's interests for his own personal gain.

[Jonnapat]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

..

but no problem for Germany when it comes to importing Russian gas via the Nordstream 2 pipeline...talk about rank hypocrisy...

Importing Russian gas is nothing to do with G7 reinstatement. 

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Russia itself could make the biggest contribution to becoming part of the G7 format again by contributing to a peaceful solution in the Ukraine conflict, Maas said.

add to the list Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Venezuela and then the new Czar could be (maybe) allowed into the group... however still has to cover the freedom of speech and the wrongly incarcerated opposition to his dictatorship

[Phoenix Rising]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I guess you are not from Ukraine then.....

That's irrelevant, Russia's got great poets!

[Phoenix Rising]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

add to the list Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Venezuela and then the new Czar could be (maybe) allowed into the group... however still has to cover the freedom of speech and the wrongly incarcerated opposition to his dictatorship

And I'd add the murder of scores of journalists and others who have annoyed the lifetime president/New Czar.

[Jingthing]

Russia definitely doesn't deserve to be in the G7. 

That's obvious. 

But what may seem less obvious is consideration whether the USA belongs in it either. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/reckoning-america-world-standing-low-point/

 

 

America’s global standing is at a low point. The pandemic made it worse.

 

Under Trump, the United States retreats from collaborative leadership at a time of global crisis

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

No, he has not been given a clean bill of health.

Absolutely correct. The man has not had a clean bill of health since he was a kid. When I lived in NYC, and was doing commercial real estate, in the 1980's, the first hand stories I would hear about his criminal activity and business tactics would cause anyone to take pause. When he got elected, I already knew who, and what he was. Many did not. You have had the opportunity to find out now. If you still have faith, so be it. 

[Phoenix Rising]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Russia definitely doesn't deserve to be in the G7. 

That's obvious. 

But what may seem less obvious is consideration whether the USA belongs in it either. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/reckoning-america-world-standing-low-point/

 

 

America’s global standing is at a low point. The pandemic made it worse.

 

Under Trump, the United States retreats from collaborative leadership at a time of global crisis

indeed, and of all the negative consequences stemming from the s**t show that is the trump "presidency" that's probably the one with the greatest potential for lasting global (political) damage.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

One has to admire Trump's farsightedness, he understands that is better for the world  to bring Russia back to the table, so that it can be a full partner in the family of nations, the way we hoped it could be after the 1990s started.

 

The isolation, provocation and victimisation of one of the greatest nations on earth, Europe's largest population, with one of the most powerful militaries the planet has ever seen, is a recipe for disaster.

 

How fortuitious that Trump was able to try and break this isolation and how terrible for all concerned that Germany of all countries should try and continue the anti-Russian agenda, just because Merkel is a hyper-feminist who has a personal dislike of Putin.

In your second paragraph, most of us would agree with only the second sentence! They have the fourth largest military budget, barely surpassing the Saudis. And much of their equipment is antiquated. Granted, their missile systems are very advanced. Possibly more advanced than the US. 

 

In terms of a great nation, maybe culturally. Maybe. Their economy is barely 11th, and without the commodities, it would barely exist. 

[earlinclaifornia]

59 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Agreed. 

(But remember that on ThaiVisa there are all too many who share the MSM's loathing of Trump, partly cos he's Trump, but partly because they take the side of all these Washington hangers-on whose livelihood depends on having an administration (doesn't matter whether GOP or DEM) that wants "business as usual"....which means having Russia as the "enemy" that justifies all the military expenditure that keeps the machine humming.  Almost by definition, rational analysis of American policy is impossible when so much personal stuff is at stake.)

That "loathing of Trump" supporters  is not in anyway unique to ThaiVisa. Get out in the real world and you will clearly see he is the "dead man walking" all of his own doing. Wake up!

[jcsmith]

It's interesting that leading into the election Trump and Putin are suddenly phoning one another like two teenage girls and Trump is trying to force Putin back into the G7. 

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Oh, Germany absolutely needs a larger and stronger military. Maybe you missed American calls for just that? Or perhaps the recent German calls to reintroduce conscription?

 

But I see you're not only not on the pulse of current events, your conclusions are also way off. 

 

Of course, everyone who appreciates Russia's contributions to culture, Rachmaninov, Ballet, the periodic table, Pushkin and Tolstoy, has to be a Russian troll, what a very rational analysis, lol.

 

You need to try harder, Phoenix, in the rational analysis department. You're way off.

There is no doubt Russia has a fantastic cultural heritage in the arts and literature. However, it is indisputable that Russia under Putin does not represent a democracy and under international law still illegally occupies territory in Europe. Russia currently ranks about 11th on the worldwide GDP scale. IMO the reason trump was advocating for Russia to re-join G7 was to try and engineer a diplomatic win for his re-election campaign, not based on merit.

 

Merkel, no matter what you say, is a highly respected politician by many. Merkel was under estimated by many male politicians over the years which they learnt to regret. Her prior successor's resignation was an ethics decision, nothing to be sneered at, after regional CDC politician's, contrary to party policy, aligned themselves to AFD to remain in power. Merkel's decision to permit entry of refugees entering EU / Germany was an act of principal to support a fellow EU country, Greece, which was overwhelmed by the flood of refugees at the time. Merkel later apologised for her decision made in good faith for the benefit of an EU member. Merkel has made it clear she supports equal opportunity for women, pay and so on. Merkel's stance for women is valid, it is not an excuse to be bitterly attacked as "feminist".

[Logosone]

18 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

In your second paragraph, most of us would agree with only the second sentence! They have the fourth largest military budget, barely surpassing the Saudis. And much of their equipment is antiquated. Granted, their missile systems are very advanced. Possibly more advanced than the US. 

 

In terms of a great nation, maybe culturally. Maybe. Their economy is barely 11th, and without the commodities, it would barely exist. 

If you look at the number of warheads Russia is still a nuclear superpower. In fact looking at the strength of the military, second in the world, it is way, way ahead of Saudi Arabia which is in 17th place. They've actually made great strides in modernising. And their in-field experience in Syria helps.

 

It's not just the military, though, Russia is the Europe's most popular country and culturally highly significant. Of course due to communism and then exploitation by the oligarchs the Russian economy has a way to come back to reflect its size. However as of 2018 its population was growing again for the first time. It's impossible to miss that under Putin Russia is being reborn.

 

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

 

 

[Eric Loh]

Rick Wilson sure is right about Trump. Since he took over the rotating presidency of G7 for 2020, the group die. Starting from the backlash for his suggestion to hold the summit in his resort followed by the Group refusal to issue G7 videoconference joint statement in April because of Pompeo insistence on the word Wuhan Virus and now Germany, UK and Canada rebuking Trump’s Russia invitation. Trump is a walking disaster. 

[JustAnotherHun]

8 hours ago, Brunolem said:

..

but no problem for Germany when it comes to importing Russian gas via the Nordstream 2 pipeline...talk about rank hypocrisy...

And why should that be a problem?

Germany buys russian oil and gas since ages. Even in the hotest times of the cold war the Russians (the communist soviet-regime then) NEVER used gas/oil as a political weapon.

Northstream 2 was invented after the Ukraine refused to pay and stole gas from the pipelines passing the country. Europs gas supply was not endangered by Russia but by the Ukraine. Good idea to bypass such a country.

The US don't like Nortstream. Why? Because they want to sell their own liquid gas to Europe. 

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you Germany at least someone is holding Putin accountable the USA will be joining you rite after we change management here

 

55555555555! Unless Hunter Biden gets a few directorships from Russian companies of course!

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

And why should that be a problem?

Germany buys russian oil and gas since ages. Even in the hotest times of the cold war the Russians (the communist soviet-regime then) NEVER used gas/oil as a political weapon.

Northstream 2 was invented after the Ukraine refused to pay and stole gas from the pipelines passing the country. Europs gas supply was not endangered by Russia but by the Ukraine. Good idea to bypass such a country.

The US don't like Nortstream. Why? Because they want to sell their own liquid gas to Europe. 

 

Hypocrisy - not a problem, because you say not! Really?

 

If Germany is so anxious to take Russia to task why doesn't it stop purchasing from them? Because it can't, it's so dependent. But it can act all brave and tough on this G7, knowing Putin ain't bothered. 

 

Might the real reason be because Trump suggested it? And of course, he's pulling US forces out of Germany and insisting they pay their way on defense.

 

It's a bit like the strong German green movement turning a blind eye to the lies and cheating on emissions by German manufacturers; or the seemingly inept German financial authority and banks.

[Proboscis]

10 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you Germany at least someone is holding Putin accountable the USA will be joining you rite after we change management here

Can't see the UK agreeing to let Russia back in either given the Novichok attack several years ago that the Russian government claims was not their despite the evidence that has mounted up. They won't even extradict the two special forces colonels who were in Salisbury at the time.

 

It is clear that the Russians have something on Trump - either some sort of really sweep real estate deal for when he is no longer president or some sort of "compromat." It is hard to get any Republican to agree that the Russians are not a threat to Europe or the USA, except Trump.

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Logosone said:

Absolutely, the almost cartoonish fear of Russia in some American circles is obviously not shared by Trump, which is a good thing.

 

And I don't understand this vitriol against Trump by some either, it's almost like they met him personally and he punched them in the face.  Bizarre

 

Whereas your own vitriol vs. pretty much anyone opposing Trump (or in this case, Putin) is based on actual personal interaction?

 

I wouldn't know that it's fear of Russia, so much as being weary. Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, Russia is a threat on multiple levels. Trump's "analysis" is hardly much of a basis to stand on.

[IAMHERE]

12 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you Germany at least someone is holding Putin accountable the USA will be joining you rite after we change management here

Well sort of,  depends on if GazProm hires young Joe or not.

[Phoenix Rising]

11 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Well sort of,  depends on if GazProm hires young Joe or not.

Who is "young Joe" and how does that depend on employment for this person?

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Germany rejects Trump's proposal to let Russia back into G7 - foreign minister

 

There is a shorter version:

Germany rejects Trump

 

I just saw an article about a poll which confirms my point:

 

Annual Gallup survey casts doubt on Mike Pompeo’s claim that the US is ‘perfectly positioned’ to lead the free world

In Germany, US stature is even worse: 78% disapprove and only 12% admire the leadership coming from Washington.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/germany-most-admired-country-in-the-world-as-us-china-and-russia-vie-for-second-place-gallup-poll

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about Merkel's feminist narrow-mindedness and the replies have been removed as this topic is not specifically about that. 

[heybruce]

The Group of Seven nations is an economic organization composed of seven of the top ten developed economies in the world.  It excludes small economies with high per capita GDP and large economies in which the per capita contribution of GDP is unexceptional, such as China, India, and Russia.  Russia is ranked 57th in the world by per capita GDP.   https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/

 

Russia is a developing nation with a resource dependent economy.  When it becomes a developed nation, and less of an international pariah because of its invasion of neighboring countries, murders in other countries, harassment and worse of journalists and opposition politicians, promotion of conspiracy theories and other fake news, etc., then maybe it will be ready to join the G7.  I won't hold my breath.

 

As to why Trump wants Russia in the G7...that's a very interesting question. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by heybruce

[daveAustin]

I think it would be a good idea to cozy up to Putin, possibly bend his ear and turn him on Beijing... somehow maybe.

[nattaya09]

20 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you Germany at least someone is holding Putin accountable the USA will be joining you rite after we change management here

C'mon....Nobody misses Obama/Biden as much as Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Although he disliked her as did millions, there isn't a day that goes by that Putin doesn't wish Hillary had won

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, nattaya09 said:

C'mon....Nobody misses Obama/Biden as much as Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Although he disliked her as did millions, there isn't a day that goes by that Putin doesn't wish Hillary had won

What do you base this fantasy opinion on?