Face masks not necessary based on current evidence - Holland's Top Scientists conclude after review of evidence

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, rabang said:

Masks have become a part virtue signalling and political instead of just being used on scientific basis. I will NOT use a mask in my country and fortunately it is not mandatory and very unlikely to be in future either. I will also avoid travelling to places where masks are mandatory.

That is what I meant when I said some people think it is a miracle cure. Since there is no evidence to support the idea that masks stop the transmission of the virus it must be based on some belief in miracle cures.

 

Certainly when you hear some people wax lyrical about masks you'd think it is the silver bullet. Masks are nothing of the sort.

 

The scientific evidence is just not there that supports the notion that masks stop transmission of the virus.

 

 

[bert bloggs]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

That is what I meant when I said some people think it is a miracle cure. Since there is no evidence to support the idea that masks stop the transmission of the virus it must be based on some belief in miracle cures.

 

Certainly when you hear some people wax lyrical about masks you'd think it is the silver bullet. Masks are nothing of the sort.

 

The scientific evidence is just not there that supports the notion that masks stop transmission of the virus.

 

 

lets put it this way ,i wear a mask ,everywhere i go people have a mask on ,i have not caught it ,no one i know has caught it ,no one i know knows anyone who has caught it ,so i will keep on wearing a mask ,

[Patts]

6 hours ago, Logosone said:

Lol, sorry, but that's a funny and rather pathetic attempt to discredit the documented scientific advice from the Netherland's Outbreak Management Team scientists who advise the government.

 

Play the ball, not the man, dimitri. Look at the evidence, don't try to discredit some of the world's top selling newspapers. If you have issues with the dailymail just look at any other news source which carries exactly the same info, for example:

 

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/dutch-stand-firm-no-nationwide-requirement-to-wear-face-masks/

 

Or maybe the actual dutch national institute for public health? From their actual website:

 

Face masks not needed in private life

 

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/face-masks-and-gloves

 

Still having problems trusting what the Daily Mail reported, dimitri?

You link an article as evidence to support your agenda when the first paragraph of the article states:

"The Netherlands has no plans to make non-medical face masks compulsory because there is no scientific evidence to prove they work, government officials said on Wednesday." 

 

That's a statement not a fact and there is now considerable evidence that when FFP2 or N95 masks are worn correctly can help to stop the spread of COVID through exhaled/inhaled virus carrying droplets, although there is still some conflicting information there is no concrete proof that masks don't work. 

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks-really-do-matter-the-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298

[Bkk Brian]

41 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well thankfully we now have top government scientists who have reviewed the evidence several times and have made clear that there is no evidence that suggests that masks stop the transmission of the virus ("no direct benefit").

 

So we can put that canard to bed.

 

 

They had their fingers crossed behind their backs when they said that, did you not know? 

 

Anyway they'll be reviewing their position this month, with the spike in cases it would come as no surprise that their current stance on masks that are mandatory to be worn on public transport will be extended to other area's.

 

I think its on the cards:

 

"MPs had asked the cabinet’s coronavirus Outbreak Management Team to look again at the evidence for using face masks, amid mounting calls for them to be introduced in public places. The decision to allow local regulations means the 25 local public safety boards will be able to experiment with masks, if they feel their use is necessary."
 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Bkk Brian

[steven100]

Wearing a mask would be safer from the virus than not wearing a mask.  

 

'Pitch Perfect' actress Anna Camp says she contracted Covid-19 after forgoing mask in a public 'one time'
Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/pitch-perfect-actress-anna-camp-says-she-contracted-covid-19-after-forgoing-mask-in-a-public-one-time/articleshow/77101879.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

LOS ANGELES: 'Pitch Perfect' star Anna Camp has revealed she had caught coronavirus earlier this year after she didn't wear a mask "one time" in public.

In an Instagram post on Tuesday, the 37-year-old actor detailed about her symptoms and urged people to wear face masks.

"I was incredibly safe. I wore a mask. I used hand sanitizer. One time, when the world was starting to open up, I decided to forgo wearing my mask in public. One. Time. And I ended up getting it," she wrote. 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by steven100

[androokery]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

You are the "fringe crazy". The scientific consensus in the Netherlands is clearly that masks are not useful in stopping the transmission of the virus.

 

You believe otherwise, in the absence of substantial evidence. That makes you the fringe, robblok.

This is all very confusing to me. It’s like you’re arguing for the right not to wear a seatbelt in your car, or the right to drive drunk. What is your goal? Why are you arguing against face masks? Is it because you don’t want to wear one? Or do you want no one to wear one?

[Logosone]

45 minutes ago, androokery said:

This is all very confusing to me. It’s like you’re arguing for the right not to wear a seatbelt in your car, or the right to drive drunk. What is your goal? Why are you arguing against face masks? Is it because you don’t want to wear one? Or do you want no one to wear one?

No, it's actually completely different to arguing not to wear a seatbelt, because there are MASSIVE, AMPLE and CLEAR studies which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that wearing a seatbelt dramatically reduces the risk of injury in case of a crash.

 

However, with masks, you see, the evidence says there is no benefit at all. 

 

Do you see the difference here?

Edited August 3, 2020 by Logosone

[Puccini]

Dutch people are special and a face mask does not reduce the risk of their infecting other persons. Source: The highly reputable scientific publication Daily Mail in the UK.

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, Puccini said:

Dutch people are special and a face mask does not reduce the risk of their infecting other persons. Source: The highly reputable scientific publication Daily Mail in the UK.

No, they're not saying Dutch people are special. They're saying the evidence does not support the notion that masks stop the transmission of the virus.

 

Source: Top scientists of the Netherlands in the Outbreak Management team which advises the government and the Dutch National Institute of Health.

 

The WHO by the way says the same in its revised June 2020 advisory on masks:

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Logosone

[androokery]

13 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No, it's actually completely different to to arguing not to wear a seatbelt, because there are MASSIVE, AMPLE and CLEAR studies which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that wearing a seatbelt dramatically reduces the risk of injury in case of a crash.

 

However, with masks, you see, the evidence says there is no benefit at all. 

 

Do you see the difference here?

I’m still not any wiser about your goal. 

[androokery]

16 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No, it's actually completely different to to arguing not to wear a seatbelt, because there are MASSIVE, AMPLE and CLEAR studies which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that wearing a seatbelt dramatically reduces the risk of injury in case of a crash.

 

However, with masks, you see, the evidence says there is no benefit at all. 

 

Do you see the difference here?

And I don’t really believe this is your stance on the issue. If you were trapped in an elevator/lift with people diagnosed with COVID-19, would you really prefer them not to wear face masks? I doubt it.

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, androokery said:

And I don’t really believe this is your stance on the issue. If you were trapped in an elevator/lift with people diagnosed with COVID-19, would you really prefer them not to wear face masks? I doubt it.

If I were trapped in an elevator with people diagnosed with Covid19 they of course would be wearing masks and should be wearing masks.

 

I'm not advocating that sick and infected people don't wear masks, are you off your rocker?

[Logosone]

11 minutes ago, androokery said:

I’m still not any wiser about your goal. 

The following:

 

1) For people to understand that asymptomatic transmission has been found by four separate studies to be in the 0 to 2.2% range. Therefore the whole basis for healthy people wearing masks is non-existent, the risk of asymptomatic transmission is zero to negligible.

 

2) For people to understand that the evidence for the notion that masks stop the transmission of the virus is not objectively existent, as was found by the top scientists of the Netherlands, after several, repeated reviews of all the evidence.

 

3) Healthy people do not need to wear masks.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Logosone

[mike787]

Face masks are a waste of money. 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Thailand has tested 1% of its population.

Citation needed.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, rabang said:

Masks have become a part virtue signalling and political instead of just being used on scientific basis. I will NOT use a mask in my country and fortunately it is not mandatory and very unlikely to be in future either. I will also avoid travelling to places where masks are mandatory.

Welcome to the smaller (and getting smaller) world of @rabang

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

That is what I meant when I said some people think it is a miracle cure. Since there is no evidence to support the idea that masks stop the transmission of the virus it must be based on some belief in miracle cures.

As a die-hard mask-phobe, how can you possibly claim to know what the mask wearing individual is thinking or even believing?

 

I reckon you and your 'arguments' are well past their sell-by date.

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Citation needed.

Click on "Total tests".

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

[shy coconut]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No one is stopping you, but you now can't say there is scientific backing for forcing people to do so.

I'm not a scientist, but my understanding is that the virus exits and spreads

through the mouth and nose, therefore anything that, even in a small way,

that restricts the emission of the virus would be a good thing.

 

Some people saying that the ordering (and I'm not quoting you) the wearing

of facemasks is an infringement on their human rights are overreacting somewhat.

Edited August 3, 2020 by shy coconut
Spelling

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, shy coconut said:

I'm not a scientist, but my understanding is that the virus exits and spreads

through the mouth and nose, therefore anything that, even in a small way,

that restricts the emission of the virus would be a good thing.

If you're next to an infected person yes. 

 

If that person sneezed or coughed yes.

 

If you take a sufficiently large viral load, yes.

 

It's a bit more complex than that.

[poloshirt]

The mask gives you a false sense of security of course. You will only be protected in some limited ways . Let's imagine someone quite close in distance to you coughs or sneezes, those virus in the moisture are floating around and if you are not wearing a mask it immediately enters your nose or mouth, wouldn't it?

But what happen if you are wearing a mask? Then you can imagine those virus will settle on the mask itself- sticking around for few hours perhaps. Your chances of catching the virus is a number game now. Like you put your bets on the table in the casino. You won the first round because the virus didn't enter your nostrils or mouth directly.

Perhaps wearing masks help when people who are having the virus breathing out and the virus are not send into the open air directly. The virus are caught in the masks and stay there.

Because virus when air borne will definitely cause a lot of risks to others who are not wearing masks.

So I believe masks do help in some limited ways, of course it will not completely keep you safe., it's better to wear masks. Virus plays a number game. It needs a certain number of people for the virus to spread.

  Human beings are not meant to live close together in high rise buildings : when that happens it will cause virus to spiral out of control. Too many people living too close together all the time is the problem, we haven't seen the worst yet.,  the worst would be 60 percent of the world population wipe out by virus. It is waiting to happen.

[shy coconut]

5 hours ago, Logosone said:

Oh you have access to "real Dutch news", how, incredibly privileged you are, it's almost as if it weren't freely available on google. You mean real Dutch news like this from the Dutch National Health Institute?

 

"Face masks not needed in private life

 

Limited scientific evidence is available regarding how effective these face masks are. It is not necessary to wear a face mask."

 

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/face-masks-and-gloves

 

So you are saying the Dutch National Health Institute and the Dutch Outbreak Management Team of top scientists would conclude that face masks are not necessary, not based on a team of scientists reviewing all the evidence, but, well, just a "single scientist" had an opinion on it?

 

Really?

I agree that wearing a face covering in private is largely pointless, but in public, enclosed

and crowded places I believed that they truly are beneficial to limit the spread.

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, poloshirt said:

the worst would be 60 percent of the world population wipe out by virus. It is waiting to happen.

 

Rather unlikely with this virus, since Iceland for instance found 0.8% of its population had the virus. 

 

That's most likely another reason why the transmission numbers are so low. The actual number of carriers is much smaller than originally thought.

 

 

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

I agree that wearing a face covering in private is largely pointless, but in public, enclosed

and crowded places I believed that they truly are beneficial to limit the spread.

So you're not one these people who wear a mask while in their own car alone then?

[rabang]

53 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Welcome to the smaller (and getting smaller) world of @rabang

What is the point anyway going somewhere ruled by the corona cult and mask police?

 

Besides I enjoy being at home, thank you very much.

Edited August 3, 2020 by rabang

[shy coconut]

39 minutes ago, Logosone said:

If you're next to an infected person yes. 

 

If that person sneezed or coughed yes.

 

If you take a sufficiently large viral load, yes.

 

It's a bit more complex than that.

You have presented 3 situations where a mask can be beneficial to limit potential spreading

of a virus, so surely they can be a good thing.

 

I am not saying it's the ONLY way of alleviating the problem, but every little helps.

 

I get that some people don't like wearing them, some maybe find it impossible for

health reasons, but for folk claiming that it is part of some nefarious controlling 

conspiracy by the government need to expand on their theory and say what benefit

it to a government if everyone is wearing a mask. Protesters on the streets often wear

masks to avoid being identified by the authorities.

[TooBigToFit]

The virus exits on a water molecule and on its way out some of these hit dust particles in the air on the way towards you. The mask will catch some of these. Some of whatever you inhale doesn't actually make contact in and out of your mouth and body. On the way out you add moisture to the mask reducing the total open space on the mask. Not all the the virus will make contact with your body even if it enters. Some will get stuck on the way in in mucus.

 

If you have the virus and wear a mask, the virus coming out of you will be reduced. And the speed of your exhaust from your breathe and any coughs will drop dramatically. These facts add even more to reducing the potential contact by others.

 

It's never been about one person wearing a mask for the best effects. And by wearing masks and being more careful, people will be a bit cleaner and mindful when out and about plus trying to use social distancing, the effects are even greater. Collectively it all adds to lower the transmission rate.

 

Those who can't accept this simple science and logic really are not sincere about their argument.

[DrTuner]

Face masks are probably useless if you have a culture of hugging, shaking hands and the ultimate culprit, kissing on cheeks. You'll just get it through contact. 

 

If, on the other hand, you have a civilized minimum distance to other humans, say at least 150m or so, mask would .. yeah well that works without mask too. Do what the Finns do. Avoid people.

[FarFlungFalang]

28 minutes ago, rabang said:

What is the point anyway going somewhere ruled by the corona cult and mask police?

 

Besides I enjoy being at home, thank you very much.

Well you won't enjoy Melbourne where people are being arrested and fined $200 AUD with the penalties being increased tomorrow.Welcome to Nasty Victoria!

As long as they remain consistent then we should enter a permanent lockdown and remain in a permanent state of masked "digital fear infection". After 7 months Australia is around 200 deaths from C-19.

 

While 2019 saw the highest number of influenza cases across the country, 2017 still holds the record for the highest number of flu-related deaths, with over 1,100 cases.

Last year there were over 900 influenza linked deaths in Australia.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/early-outbreaks-to-blame-for-worst-flu-season-on-record/11949320

Edited August 3, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[shy coconut]

24 minutes ago, Logosone said:

So you're not one these people who wear a mask while in their own car alone then?

No I don't, it is unlikely that I would give myself the virus.