Over 70s in Thailand

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Well which is it? Are you uninsured or self-insured? They are entirely different things..that was my point.

 

Unfortunately the uninsured make problems for the rest of us. As trend towards Immigration insurance requirements demonstrate.

 

Several times each year I am drawn into helping/facilitating situations whee someone's lack of insurance causes huge problems for them, the hospital and their nearest relatives.

i do not pay for health insurance with a company.    I have been a "saver" for a long time, and can

cover any hospital bill (in Thailand)  that I might incur.   

I know that there are westerners here that have no insurance and can not cover their costs when

facing a large bill.   This is life..... there are so many cases and situations where people run into difficulties.    Like i mentioned,  i don't want to get into rants about what is wrong with the world.

I will quickly say that there are many Farangs that have insurance but do other things that I am

sure upset immigration .   

Good that you do your part to assist others in your field.  I try to do my part as well.

[rumak]

16 minutes ago, Bangkok Basha said:

I have both Pacific Prime and Cigna Global policies (and am 75 years old). My Cigna monthly premium is very high ($450/month), but it has no exclusions except no coverage in N. America, and a $1500 annual deductible. My Pacific Prime policy (CV-19 coverage and world-wide) is THB 85,000/year. I've fortunately not had to make a claim on either policy, but a friend who also has Cigna Global had everything covered for cancer surgery and treatment at BNH Hospital in Bangkok. 

So you pay around 250 thousand baht a year for insurance.  How much have you paid over the last ten

years?      ( over 2 million baht ?)     Your choice, and from your post I can see it gives you peace of mind.      Freedom of choice is great .   

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Don't feel sorry for these companies because they lose out with some.

Insurance companies cant possibly break even or profit from every client.  There will always be people who cost the company big money. (Think of the new car buyer who writes off a new car immediately after purchase)

They allow for this in their business plan (fee structure) by charging inflated premiums for all customers, even those who never make a claim. The excess collected pays for shareholder profits, administration, wages, offices, cars, bonus's, etc.  

This is the reason some of us with means sometimes prefer to gamble by self insuring. Not everybody want's to contribute to an insurance company's profit margin. Of course, if you lose the gamble you will lament the fact.

 

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you can truly afford to lose it. But I find that few really can.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Don't feel sorry for these companies because they lose out with some.

Insurance companies cant possibly break even or profit from every client.  There will always be people who cost the company big money. (Think of the new car buyer who writes off a new car immediately after purchase)

They allow for this in their business plan (fee structure) by charging inflated premiums for all customers, even those who never make a claim. The excess collected pays for shareholder profits, administration, wages, offices, cars, bonus's, etc.  

This is the reason some of us with means sometimes prefer to gamble by self insuring. Not everybody want's to contribute to an insurance company's profit margin. Of course, if you lose the gamble you will lament the fact.

 

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you (1) truly understand what it can cost you and do not greatly underestimate it and (2) can truly afford to lose it.

 

But I find that few really meet these criteria. Some yes, but very few.

[izod10]

54 minutes ago, Bangkok Basha said:

ICigna Global had everything covered for cancer surgery and treatment at BNH Hospital in Bangkok. 

Afraid he does not,yes cancer surgery,there it ends....guy 62 years  5000 pounds a year  same insurance company...hopped it home,no aftercare 5000 a year wasted,surgery for free UK

  plus have a sniff at UK forces donkeys years ago?   take you home for free  21 quid a year

Edited August 18, 2020 by izod10

[uhuh]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you (1) truly understand what it can cost you and do not greatly underestimate it and (2) can truly afford to lose it.

 

But I find that few really meet these criteria. Some yes, but very few.

So how much can it cost you?

 

One catastrophic event, maybe just a tragic accident,  treated in Bumrungrad or BPH, may cost you 5m baht. The first million should be available upfront, immediately. 

These costs have been rising very fast the last years. 

 

Chronic treatment - like cancer treatment or long-term ventilation - may cost 10m, rising.

 

Air ambulance to Europe,  Australia,  US - if you are not fit to fly for medical reasons,  a commercial airline will not let you on the plane - may be 100.000 to 200.000 USD. These flights are slowly getting cheaper,  you can easily get them for 70.000 USD already. 

To be paid upfront, before the air ambulance even starts to plan the flight. 

 

Certainly not something for people who consider 800.000 baht for a visa a lot of money. But something to be considered for people who think the Elite card is good value for money. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by uhuh

[izod10]

8 minutes ago, uhuh said:

So how much can it cost you?

 

One catastrophic event, maybe just a tragic accident,  treated in Bumrungrad or BPH, may cost you 5m baht. The first million should be available upfront, immediately. 

These costs have been rising very fast the last years. 

 

Chronic treatment - like cancer treatment or long-term ventilation - may cost 10m, rising.

 

Air ambulance to Europe,  Australia,  US - if you are not fit to fly for medical reasons,  a commercial airline will not let you on the plane - may be 100.000 to 200.000 USD. These flights are slowly getting cheaper,  you can easily get them for 70.000 USD already. 

To be paid upfront, before the air ambulance even starts to plan the flight. 

 

Certainly not something for people who consider 800.000 baht for a visa a lot of money. But something to be considered for people who think the Elite card is good value for money. 

 

 

if you end up in one of those two hospitals u want ur head feeling,taken there unconscious? ambulance fault,excellent govt hospitals BKK

  Cancer treatment? 10 million and rising  bye bye Thailand,  for free UK

  Mercy flights can be arranged  / 2 stretcher cases per flight too on some airlines cheap

[uhuh]

37 minutes ago, izod10 said:

,excellent govt hospitals BKK

I said "BPH" = Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. Pattaya is not in Bangkok,  and quite a few TVF members are not in Bangkok. 

BPH is by far the best hospital in Pattaya,  but very expensive. 

39 minutes ago, izod10 said:

2 stretcher cases per flight too on some airlines cheap

I was not talking about a stretcher on a commercial airline.  That's cheap  (10.000 - 25.000 USD).

If you are in such a bad condition that a commercial airline will not accept you even as a stretcher case, that's when you need an air ambulance (not the same).

 

You seem to think like the so-called "self insured" who pretend that everything will come cheap in Thailand. It won't.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, uhuh said:

I said "BPH" = Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. Pattaya is not in Bangkok,  and quite a few TVF members are not in Bangkok. 

BPH is by far the best hospital in Pattaya,  but very expensive. 

I thought you were talking about your prostate problems.

Which is the usual meaning of BPH, Benign prostatic hyperplasia.

[uhuh]

Treatment of BPH won't cost you 5m, even at BPH p)

[izod10]

3 hours ago, uhuh said:

Treatment of BPH won't cost you 5m, even at BPH p)

700usd private room, top surgeon,all found,,,India

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

Here's why I think private health insurance will never be affordable.

Insurance is a way of providing financial compensation for an unlikely event.

For example, to insure against a house being flooded, or burgled, or a road accident.

There is no certainty that the insurance company will ever have to pay out on a particular contract.

But health insurance is different since virtually everyone will get sick in their lifetime and require medical intervention, particularly during the final months/years of life. Not an unlikely event but more of a certainty.

Therefore, in order for the insurance company to make a profit they will increase premiums in a deliberate attempt to get rid of the higher risk individuals, or simply by some excuse to eliminate them from their books entirely.

So I say plan for the future when you are young by saving for this eventuality and do not rely on health insurance companies.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Raphael Hythlodaeus

[nausea]

As an old mentor of mine said, I rely on my SO pouring whisky down my throat at a great rate; my drug of choice; no doubt morphine or heroin is more effective. It will happen, eventually. Insurance is for mugs, I've never, ever, got value from these guys, they're playing the numbers. If I'd put all the wasted money I've spent on insurance somewhere, I'd be a rich man.

[simon43]

...they will increase premiums in a deliberate attempt to get rid of the higher risk individuals, or simply by some excuse to eliminate them from their books entirely.

 

If I get cancer and claim on my medical insurance policy, that company cannot increase my annual premiums, other than a blanket increase for all insurees of my age.  Nor can they refuse to renew my cover, so long as I pay the premium that all others in my age band pay.  I can continue to claim for any medical condition that's covered by my policy.

 

Now, if you take out a medical insurance policy which gives the company the right to individually increase your premiums because you made a claim, or gives them the right to refuse cover when you reach an age of xyz years, - well, that is a problem of your own making.......

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

If I get cancer and claim on my medical insurance policy, that company cannot increase my annual premiums, other than a blanket increase for all insurees of my age.  Nor can they refuse to renew my cover, so long as I pay the premium that all others in my age band pay.  I can continue to claim for any medical condition that's covered by my policy.

 

Now, if you take out a medical insurance policy which gives the company the right to individually increase your premiums because you made a claim, or gives them the right to refuse cover when you reach an age of xyz years, - well, that is a problem of your own making.......

Of course I agree -- you can insure for anything, including no increase in premiums, depending on the cost of the insurance and the benefits it provides. I had one such UK policy myself. Only the elderly rich can afford health insurance, and they don't want it.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Raphael Hythlodaeus

[izod10]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

If I get cancer and claim on my medical insurance policy, that company cannot increase my annual premiums, other than a blanket increase for all insurees of my age.  Nor can they refuse to renew my cover, so long as I pay the premium that all others in my age band pay.  I can continue to claim for any medical condition that's covered by my policy.

 

Now, if you take out a medical insurance policy which gives the company the right to individually increase your premiums because you made a claim, or gives them the right to refuse cover when you reach an age of xyz years, - well, that is a problem of your own making.......

There are people who knew this guy,couple of years ago now. Was with Pacific initially paying 80 per week at joining  ,he was around 58 or so .  Developed cancer,had op half lung removed,cancer reoccurred,still more treatment,and so on. Premiums went up to 100 pound a week,needed extended aftercare ,which was not there in policy....back ome PDQ   must have died by now,no word

 

Actually the guy returned home to have more surgery,do not know if he hit the buffers too on amount of treatment that could be received

Edited August 19, 2020 by izod10

[klikster]

On 8/13/2020 at 1:05 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Most of us can get medical service in our home countries. Often free when we are old.

Is that not fair and good enough?

 

Do we all have a right to live wherever we want in this world and get medical cover for cheap or free? What next? 

Having a bad day, are we?

[rumak]

On 8/18/2020 at 8:38 PM, nausea said:

As an old mentor of mine said, I rely on my SO pouring whisky down my throat at a great rate; my drug of choice; no doubt morphine or heroin is more effective. It will happen, eventually. Insurance is for mugs, I've never, ever, got value from these guys, they're playing the numbers. If I'd put all the wasted money I've spent on insurance somewhere, I'd be a rich man.

I have posted that a few times.  Always sure to get the insurance lovers to try every which way to say

how foolish i am.          

So, as to your point about all the money you spent on insurance .......well, i did not have health insurance and

I saved it.    Also saved the very high property tax , income tax, sales tax , state tax,  property insurance,

car insurance ( here costs me around 2000 baht/year for good coverage) , 100 dollar at least doctor visits,  50 dollar/hour plumbing and electrical costs,  ETC.

Saved it all by living in Thailand in very comfortable lifestyle .  

Been a pretty good choice .

[OneMoreFarang]

19 minutes ago, klikster said:

On 8/13/2020 at 1:05 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Most of us can get medical service in our home countries. Often free when we are old.

Is that not fair and good enough?

 

Do we all have a right to live wherever we want in this world and get medical cover for cheap or free? What next? 

Having a bad day, are we?

I am having a good day. I am still relative young and I have a good health insurance.

 

How about you? How is your day? Do you wish you were young and wish you had a health insurance? 

I could understand that such a situation won't make you happy. But don't blame Thailand for that.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am having a good day. I am still relative young and I have a good health insurance.

 

How about you? How is your day? Do you wish you were young and wish you had a health insurance? 

I could understand that such a situation won't make you happy. But don't blame Thailand for that.

I've not bothered with health insurance ........ I decided to keep my good health.

Have been to hospital a few times, normally a few hundred baht.

They have decided cutting into me is a good idea twice, claiming I would die if they didn't.

This was cutting to remove organs they though I could do without, so fairly major operations.

I politely declined twice ......... still here without the surgery and still fairly fit. 

The two parts they wanted to remove are still working normally (as far as I can tell)

 

None of my pals who let the doctors operate have survived (Thailand and the UK).

It was wasted money for them.

Edited August 23, 2020 by BritManToo
typo

[rumak]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've not bothered with health insurance ........ I decide to keep my good health.

Have been to hospital a few times, normally a few hundred baht.

They have decided cutting in to me is a good idea (twice), claiming I would die if they didn't.

I politely declined ......... still here without the surgery and still fairly fit.

i remember you saying that you listen to what a doctor or doctors advise..... then you make a decision

what you want to do.   I am sure that you do some research,  as do i,  when it involves something

more than a simple remedy.    Guess we are two of a dying breed :  people who trust themselves to

make good decisions.

Doctors are people , some smarter than others,  some more capable than others.  I have known some

really good ones.   I have also been given some very poor advice.   

Being held in such high esteem..... i often wonder why many doctors that I see do not appear to be in

very good shape.     Are they not practicing what is a universally accepted truth ....... eat well and exercise are the two biggest factors to stay healthy.   ?

Edited August 23, 2020 by rumak

[bwpage3]

On 8/17/2020 at 11:46 PM, rumak said:

i do not pay for health insurance with a company.    I have been a "saver" for a long time, and can

cover any hospital bill (in Thailand)  that I might incur.   

I know that there are westerners here that have no insurance and can not cover their costs when

facing a large bill.   This is life..... there are so many cases and situations where people run into difficulties.    Like i mentioned,  i don't want to get into rants about what is wrong with the world.

I will quickly say that there are many Farangs that have insurance but do other things that I am

sure upset immigration .   

Good that you do your part to assist others in your field.  I try to do my part as well.

How many large hospital bills can you cover, 1?

 

 

[bwpage3]

Health Insurance is a necessity in old age, however, in Thailand, the thing that worries me most, is if you could ever get to the hospital in time to use it?

 

So many instances where a major medical event could happen when you get old, no matter how healthy you think you are and if you have to be rushed to the hospital, its not going to happen in many areas.

 

I would have a definite plan on how I could get to the hospital quickly, in the event of an emergency.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by bwpage3

[3NUMBAS]

try getting a doctors apointment after you fly back to UK for some urgent attention at the hospital to geta referal in the first place .and thats befor covid hit as theyre more paranoid right now.

 

dentists only see those who need emergency care and you have to wait a few weeks with a bad tooth for an extraction

[bunnydrops]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:37 AM, Tounge Thaied said:

I am 52 and have thought that I would enroll in this global emergency evacuation flight insurance program so that I could be flown back to my home country when I need a major health care emergency.

https://www.globalrescue.com/

Had a friend used them after he broke his hip in Morocco. Flew him back to the US in a private company Lear jet by way of Canada. The yearly price for the service was  really not that bad.

[BritManToo]

27 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

How many large hospital bills can you cover, 1?

I'm not really frightened by death.

So do I really need to cover any large hospital bills?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've not bothered with health insurance ........ I decided to keep my good health.

Have been to hospital a few times, normally a few hundred baht.

They have decided cutting into me is a good idea twice, claiming I would die if they didn't.

This was cutting to remove organs they though I could do without, so fairly major operations.

I politely declined twice ......... still here without the surgery and still fairly fit. 

The two parts they wanted to remove are still working normally (as far as I can tell)

 

None of my pals who let the doctors operate have survived (Thailand and the UK).

It was wasted money for them.

My mother is currently very ill. To survive maybe a few years longer she has to see the doctor regularly. It's good that she gets the care she needs and it's good that she does not have to sell the house to get that care.

Sure, at some stage there will be an end to that care and her life. But currently she still enjoys life - in her case only possible with proper health care and insurance. And no, she is not in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

My mother is currently very ill. To survive maybe a few years longer she has to see the doctor regularly. It's good that she gets the care she needs and it's good that she does not have to sell the house to get that care.

I have to see a doctor regularly as well, every 3 months.

50bht for the hospital 'medical services', 250bht for a 3 month supply of pills.

[rumak]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:20 AM, Sheryl said:

 

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you (1) truly understand what it can cost you and do not greatly underestimate it and (2) can truly afford to lose it.

This is Sheryl comment on those that choose to take responsibility for using their own savings to pay for medical bills. ( what she calls the "uninsured")

 

I would use the same words to describe the state of health of what IMO  is a populace that leads a very

unhealthy lifestyle ( bad food choices, bad partnership choices, stress, overweight, little exercise other

than pounding on a keyboard or swiping their ipads)  .  Well, not just my opinion:

 According to WHO, 60% of related factors to individual health and quality of life are correlated to lifestyle (1). Millions of people follow an unhealthy lifestyle. Hence, they encounter illness, disability and even death.

 

Of course these factors ( unhealthy lifestyle choices)  are pretty much known to almost everyone.   But the percentage of people that disregard it is ever increasing.

Poor health is almost sure to follow .  So, once again let's repeat those words for the huge number of people who do not take their health as the top priority :

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you (1) truly understand what it can cost you and do not greatly underestimate it and (2) can truly afford to lose it.

 

I personally take responsibility for my own health .  As does my partner. We are quite confident in our ability to flourish without paying money to insurers to take care of us .  And i feel great not having to worry , that if some emergency does arise I will not be reading the fine print to see why they are refusing to pay.  The money I have saved by not giving in to their ever increasing policy costs...... is safely tucked away

in my piggy bank.

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by rumak

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, rumak said:

This is Sheryl comment on those that choose to take responsibility for using their own savings to pay for medical bills. ( what she calls the "uninsured")

 

I would use the same words to describe the state of health of what IMO  is a populace that leads a very

unhealthy lifestyle ( bad food choices, bad partnership choices, stress, overweight, little exercise other

than pounding on a keyboard or swiping their ipads)  .  Well, not just my opinion:

 According to WHO, 60% of related factors to individual health and quality of life are correlated to lifestyle (1). Millions of people follow an unhealthy lifestyle. Hence, they encounter illness, disability and even death.

 

Of course these factors ( unhealthy lifestyle choices)  are pretty much known to almost everyone.   But the percentage of people that disregard it is ever increasing.

Poor health is almost sure to follow .  So, once again let's repeat those words for the huge number of people who do not take their health as the top priority :

Nothing wrong with taking such a gamble if you (1) truly understand what it can cost you and do not greatly underestimate it and (2) can truly afford to lose it.

 

I personally take responsibility for my own health .  As does my partner. We are quite confident in our ability to flourish without paying money to insurers to take care of us .  And i feel great not having to worry , that if some emergency does arise I will not be reading the fine print to see why they are refusing to pay.  The money I have saved by not giving in to their ever increasing policy costs...... is safely tucked away

in my piggy bank.

I largely agree with what you wrote > taking responsibility for your own health is a major factor and greatly reduces the risks an unhealthy lifestyle poses for your health.

That responsibility also includes having a large enough 'piggy-bank' in order to be able to deal with catastrophic accidents or illnesses.

Having a road-accident in Thailand can bankrupt you if it requires major surgery, and that's the ONLY reason I took a travel-insurance policy with unlimited coverage and repatriation when required at no cost (health-care in my home-country is of high quality and at no cost also).

When I was younger I travelled the world with no insurance at all, and luckily never needed it.  But looking back it was a crazy thing to do, as travel-insurance is dirt-cheap for the coverage it provides (well, it is at least in my home-country where insurance is regulated to prevent unfair practices like small print exceptions and exaggerated premiums).  I now urge my children to subscribe to such travel-insurance when making adventure-trips abroad, as the youth is careless in these matters - like I was too when I was young - and has this wonderful positive I Will Live Forever attitude.