End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand

[rooster59]

End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand

 

Image: Phuket News, file photo

 

Last month the Thai government confirmed it would extend the visa amnesty for foreigners in Thailand from 31 July to 26 September.

 

A welcomed move, the extension meant that any tourists who had been stranded in Thailand due to the COVID-19 pandemic had sufficient time to make plans to return to their home countries or should they meet the requirements, switch to an alternative “visa” allowing them to extend their stay in Thailand.

 

For long term expats, Immigraiton also advised them to get up to date with the 90 day reporting and those who need to renew their extensions of stay based on marriage, retirement or a parent to a Thai child were advised to renew as soon as possible.

 

However, there is another group of expats for which the end of the visa amnesty period may still spell some uncertainty.

 

This concerns those who stay in Thailand on a Non-O multiple entry visa. These are obtained from a Thai embassy or consulate overseas. 

 

The Thai Consulates in Ho Chi Minh City, Penang and Savannakhet are popular with applicants of this particular visa type. 

 

Savannakhet, for example, is a little more relaxed when it comes to the documentation it requires foreigners to submit and doesn’t typically ask for proof of finances. 

 

The Non-O multiple entry can be applied for being based on marriage, retirement or being a parent to a Thai child and gives a one year stay in Thailand. It doesn’t require a 90 day report but instead requires the holder to leave the country every 90 days. 

 

Typically those in possession of a Non-O multi entry will do what is known as a ‘border bounce’ - exiting Thailand before returning sometimes immediately - getting stamped back into the country to reactivate the next 90 day stay. 

 

There are a number of reasons why someone would choose to obtain a Non-O multi entry, with the visa type popular with those who for example are married to a Thai but travel in and out of Thailand frequently, it saves having to pay for and the hassle of re-entry permits. 

 

Non-O multi entry are also used by those who prefer not to keep 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account needed for a typical marriage extension, which are obtained from an immigration office within Thailand, as well as with those who perhaps do not quite meet the financial requirements of that extension (see the loophole at Savannakhet mentioned above). 

 

Another benefit is that those on a Non-O multi entry based on marriage or being a parent to a Thai child can also have a work permit allowing them to legally work in Thailand.

 

However, an immigration order effective from 1 August 2020 (unofficial translation below and previously discussed here), states that some of those on a Non-O multi entry may be required to leave Thailand once the visa amnesty ends.

 

Article 1. The departure from the Kingdom
           Aliens being permitted for a temporary stay in the Kingdom under tourist vis, transit-visa, visa on arrival and aliens permitted to stay under an exemption of visa of all types must leave the Kingdom within 26 September 2020,
           Unless there is a reasonable necessity or obstacle of the departures, in such case, the aliens may submit an application to extend their temporary stay in the Kingdom under Article 2(1).

 

(2) Aliens other than prescribed in Clause 1, who wish to file an application to extend their
temporary stay in the Kingdom must provide a proper reason, case by case pursuant to the
order of the Royal Thai Police no. 327/2557 subject: the criteria and conditions of application
to extend the temporary stay in the Kingdom dated 30 June 2014;

 

In the event the foreigner has already used the initial 60 day extension to visit their wife and cannot qualify for the one year extension, immigration may allow special dispensation to give more than one extension per entry.

 

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

For those on a Non-O multi entry married to a Thai or who are a parent to a Thai child who already have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account they can simply switch over to an extension of stay at their local immigration office. 

 

But for those that don’t qualify for the one year extension, their future beyond 26 September is far from certain.

 

If travel restrictions remain in place, they may not be able to return to Savankhet, for example, and apply for a new Non O Multi Entry. 

 

Even if they could, if Thailand’s borders remain closed, they wouldn’t be able to return to the country anyway.

 

If Thailand’s borders are opened by 26 September (which looks unlikely at this moment in time), there could be quarantine requirements for anyone entering, which currently, requires foreigners to quarantine for 14 days, at their own expense and with valid insurance. 

 

If so, it would be expected that Non-O Multi holders would also be subject to those quarantine rules, meaning additional costs and insurance requirements for that individual, further adding to the certainty.

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-08-16

 

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Unofficial translation

 

[BritManToo]

Could you highlight the 'Non-O' mentions in your quoted texts for me.

I appear to be too old to find them (probably a senior moment on my part).

Edited August 16, 2020 by BritManToo

[Lizard2010]

You would think that keeping Xpats in Thailand would be good

After all we put Millions into the Thai econamy

Who has been help keep the country going in the last few months  Xpats of course

[ChipButty]

Me thinks there will be a mad exodus on the said date utter chaos!

[Lizard2010]

3 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Me thinks there will be a mad exodus on the said date utter chaos!

That is if they can find a flight and country to go too

[FarFlungFalang]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Could you highlight the 'Non-O' mentions in your quoted texts for me.

I appear to be too old to find them (probably a senior moment on my part).

This is the closest thing I could find that might include us if we are considered to be under an exemption.

 

"and aliens permitted to stay under an exemption of visa of all types must leave the Kingdom within 26 September 2020,"

[FarFlungFalang]

5 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Me thinks there will be a mad exodus on the said date utter chaos!

I've been told to wait and see what happens by my local office which seems to hint at some leniency.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Could you highlight the 'Non-O' mentions in your quoted texts for me.

I appear to be too old to find them (probably a senior moment on my part).

Do those on non-o visa fit under number one.

They do not fall under number 1 so it is number 2 for them.

They might be able to apply for a extension for  medical treatment or with a letter from their embassy but that is not clear.

After that is only possible to apply for a one year extension under clause 2.18 or a 60 day extension under clause 2.24 of the order that only allows one per entry. What do they do it they cannot get either one.

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

3 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

That is if they can find a flight and country to go too

That's also if they want to find a flight which I don't.

[Lizard2010]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Could you highlight the 'Non-O' mentions in your quoted texts for me.

I appear to be too old to find them (probably a senior moment on my part).

After re reading it is seems to be about the 'Non-O'

That was EG approved from Vietnam  with the 90 day leave the country

Maybe they are clamping down on these Visa

Maybe some else could clarify

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

This is the closest thing I could find that might include us if we are considered to be under an exemption.

"and aliens permitted to stay under an exemption of visa of all types must leave the Kingdom within 26 September 2020,"

My Non-O VISA is valid until April 2021.

It's only my permission to stay that's questionable, my VISA is completely valid.

Edited August 16, 2020 by BritManToo

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

This is the closest thing I could find that might include us if we are considered to be under an exemption.

"and aliens permitted to stay under an exemption of visa of all types must leave the Kingdom within 26 September 2020,"

That is the visa exempt entry without a visa of any kind. Normal stay is 30 days or 90 days it it is under bilateral agreement.

[ezzra]

the Thai government is playing hide and sic with the amnasty's extension not fully disclosing wha install for the next say, 6 months givin the covid situation stay the same, like a game of mystery, keeps you in suspense as to what the movie plot will unfold...

[mokwit]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My Non-O VISA is valid until April 2021.

It's only my permission to stay that's questionable, my VISA is completely valid.

As I interpret it you will have to leave by 26th and might not be able to come back in. Thai Immigration see it as a visa that gives 90 days at a time, not as a 1 year entitlement to stay. People on 1 yr extensions with re entry permits are not being allowed in, so why would 90 day family visit visa holders  be?

<removed>

Edited August 16, 2020 by ubonjoe
baiting remark removed

[FarFlungFalang]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is the visa exempt entry without a visa of any kind. Normal stay is 30 days or 90 days it it is under bilateral agreement.

It does seem a pity they don't give a definitive list.

 

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

Unless there is a reasonable necessity

I thought being married would be considered a reasonable necessity and any person married to a Thai national would be automatically considered under this stipulation. 

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Were you one of the 1 Yr multiple entry people belittling us fools who had money in the bank and did 90 day reports*? Hows that working out for you all? (note: genuine sympathy for those on this visa who did not belittle others)

*5 minutes on your PC or phone vs going to the airport/sitting in a mini van for a day.

It's actually working out very well for me as I've already saved a lot of money on my 'foreign holidays'.

And I have every expectation of another amnesty extension, despite all the naysayers.

I've already put 400k in my Thai bank account, 'just in case' and I still have the option of a 60 day extension.

 

*I enjoyed my holidays to Vietnam/Cambodia/Philippines, I didn't bother with the van/bus, plane is far more comfortable.

The sightseeing was very pleasant. Can't think of one trip I didn't enjoy.

Edited August 16, 2020 by BritManToo

[FarFlungFalang]

10 minutes ago, ezzra said:

the Thai government is playing hide and sic with the amnasty's extension not fully disclosing wha install for the next say, 6 months givin the covid situation stay the same, like a game of mystery, keeps you in suspense as to what the movie plot will unfold...

To be fair I think they've allowed the situation to become to fluid and don't know what to do and are just waiting to see what happens,a bit like a deer or kangaroo in the headlights. 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

People on 1 yr extensions with re entry permits are not being allowed in, so why would 90 day family visit visa holders  be?

People married to or the parent of a Thai are allowed to enter on repatriation flights arranged by a embassy or official consulate. It does not matter what visa or extension they have other than a tourist visa.

[fondue zoo]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

In the event the foreigner has already used the initial 60 day extension to visit their wife and cannot qualify for the one year extension, immigration may allow special dispensation to give more than one extension per entry.

Has anyone reported success in being granted this special dispensation?

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, fondue zoo said:

Has anyone reported success in being granted this special dispensation?

 

I don't think anybody has tried it yet since most people are not aware it is possible under number 5 of the police order.

The immigration bureau could make order that it is allowed under that case in the police order.

[trucking]

I'd like to see a survey of how many people still have a joker up their sleeves with the 60 day extension

to visit wife. How many have already used it vs those who still have the option.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic posts meant to deflect the topic have been removed. No further notice will be given when posts have been removed.

[FarFlungFalang]

12 minutes ago, fondue zoo said:

Has anyone reported success in being granted this special dispensation?

 

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

In the event the foreigner has already used the initial 60 day extension to visit their wife and cannot qualify for the one year extension, immigration may allow special dispensation to give more than one extension per entry.

"may allow special dispensation" suggests it's discretionary and they "may" not allow special dispensation which seems to be the easier option for some to take.There is also the "competent official" syndrome as they don't want to appear "incompetent" and have to ask superiors for clarification which presents the minefield of trying to persuade the "competent official" to do just that which introduces the "difficult customer" syndrome which just seems to block any chance of a successful application.My local Imm officer is convinced I only get one extension per visit.

I intend to go in tomorrow to seek "special dispensation" armed with my "embassy letter" and associated tale of woe is me!

[NanLaew]

14 minutes ago, trucking said:

I'd like to see a survey of how many people still have a joker up their sleeves with the 60 day extension

to visit wife. How many have already used it vs those who still have the option.

I am currently under a visa-exempt amnesty having failed to secure a Non-O multi in Savanakhet just before the borders closed last March.

 

In late July and just after the Immigration department prematurely announced the amnesty would end on 1 August, I dropped by Udon Immigration and asked if I could get a 60-day extension (married with kids). They said I could.

 

With an option (at that time) for me to leave for regional work and return to Thailand within that 60-day period, I asked if I could get a re-entry permit on that 60-day extension so that I would have a valid 'visa' in my passport when I applied for permission to re-enter Thailand. They said I could.

 

They further advised that I should apply for the extension and re-entry permit as close to me departure date as possible. I had already sussed out as being most efficient but was pleased that the IO also picked up on that.

 

As it stands, work option has slipped but I would plan on getting the extension and re-entry just before the new departure date and take my chances on the 'outside'. I have just about had about enough of being hostage to the coronavirus.

 

PS: Mrs NL has also just about had enough of having me hanging around the house now that all the honey-do's have been done and the rainy season has started!

Edited August 16, 2020 by NanLaew

[Keyser Soze666]

16 minutes ago, trucking said:

I'd like to see a survey of how many people still have a joker up their sleeves with the 60 day extension

to visit wife. How many have already used it vs those who still have the option.

I still have it, so guaranteed at least to Nov 25 or whatever.

[tomacht8]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

People married to or the parent of a Thai are allowed to enter on repatriation flights arranged by a embassy or official consulate. It does not matter what visa or extension they have other than a tourist visa.

Theoretically yes. I called my Thai consulate in Germany.
There is a 3 month waiting list for flights back to Thailand.
Many Thais are also stranded in Europe and have been waiting for a return flight for months.
It seems that the available quarantine places in Thailand are the bottleneck.
Furthermore, the requirement for non Thais to take a C19 test, which must not be older than 72 hours. It has to be an RT-PCR test, which in many countries is only carried out when you are sick or show symptoms. The laboratory time alone is regular 48 hours and longer due to the high number of tests. Synchronizing all of this: flight, quarantine accommodation, insurance, C19 test is extremely problematic. Those who can, should better stay here and wait until the possibility of returning to family, children and work in Thailand becomes easier.

[trucking]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

honey-do's have been done and the rainy season has started!

 

My honey-dos never end. Like painting the golden gate bridge. When you finish , its time to start over

[FarFlungFalang]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

PS: Mrs NL has also just about had enough of having me hanging around the house now that all the honey-do's have been done and the rainy season has started!

Mrs FFF has an inexhaustible supply of honey do's and even ten people helping doesn't even dent the list. 

[trucking]

14 hours ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

I still have it, so guaranteed at least to Nov 25 or whatever.

Dito. I am preparing to do the 1 year extension with cash transfers as well but this is more difficult and depends on how friendly your local immigration office is. Need to go to mine for a ' chat ' before committing myself to either course. The only other option is to get 400,000 in the bank for 2 months seasoning.

[Keyser Soze666]

2 minutes ago, trucking said:

Dito. I am preparing to do the 1 year extension with cash transfers as well but this is more difficult and depends on how friendly your local immigration office is. Need to go to mine for a ' chat ' before committing myself to either course. The only other option is to get 400,000 in the bank for 2 months seasoning.

Yes, I am 50 also married and have had 400k in the bank for a good while now, so not short of options but can't be asked to even give this a second thought just yet.