Are there reproducible actions of immigration offices to change from visas to residence permits?

[viewfinder]

The people living here on the basis of a visa will be under criminal prosecution from 27.09.2020, even with a valid visa. It is of great importance whether the immigration authorities accept or even approve applications for a residence permit since the day of the declaration 24.07.2020. Which visa can still be considered a secure visa? Is the immigration authority willing and allows a conversion of the residence status from visa to residence permit? (https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1177935-end-of-visa-amnesty-may-spell-uncertainty-for-some-expats-in-thailand/)

 

Understandably, the topic is a bit over-motivated at the moment, so I ask for the respect of the following:
1.) We are looking for comprehensible reports on assumptions or on approved applications without the involvement of agents after 24.07.2020.
2.) Advertising for protection letter, cab coupon or visa without consular interaction is absolutely undesirable.
3.) An own forum post from and for people who believe that passport holder, citizen and resident are identical terms can be quite productive.

thanks for reports

[viewfinder]

I will start with my own report. Unfortunately my wife did not take a photo.

My 60 day extension is used up and the security sum of 400.000 was not credited until 29.07.2020. (sent on the day of the message)
My wife came back today (26.08.2020) from another unsuccessful visit to the Immigration Sakaeo (Aranyaphatet). It was the sixth trip in the search for a legal acceptable solution. For me, the red line to serious communication was crossed on 29.07.2020 with the request for a letter from my state embassy. This letter should formally permit the stay (as a guest of the respective country embassy) in Thailand. Contact to a desk officer was not possible (application refused by bouncer).
Even today my wife could not talk to anyone and in front of the office permissions for guest workers from Cambodia were stamped.
An assistant informed my wife that this situation will probably continue for another five days. There was no information about the acceptance of applications.
The initial constructive dialogue with an otherwise correctly working authority has now turned into a dice game.
Let us believe the best and everything is just a coincidence.

 

Good night

[couchpotato]

31 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

I will start with my own report. Unfortunately my wife did not take a photo.

My 60 day extension is used up and the security sum of 400.000 was not credited until 29.07.2020. (sent on the day of the message)
My wife came back today (26.08.2020) from another unsuccessful visit to the Immigration Sakaeo (Aranyaphatet). It was the sixth trip in the search for a legal acceptable solution. For me, the red line to serious communication was crossed on 29.07.2020 with the request for a letter from my state embassy. This letter should formally permit the stay (as a guest of the respective country embassy) in Thailand. Contact to a desk officer was not possible (application refused by bouncer).
Even today my wife could not talk to anyone and in front of the office permissions for guest workers from Cambodia were stamped.
An assistant informed my wife that this situation will probably continue for another five days. There was no information about the acceptance of applications.
The initial constructive dialogue with an otherwise correctly working authority has now turned into a dice game.
Let us believe the best and everything is just a coincidence.

 

Good night

Your posts #1 and #2 are very disjointed and not really understandable.

Very strange for your first newbie posts.

 

[jackdd]

50 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Your posts #1 and #2 are very disjointed and not really understandable.

Very strange for your first newbie posts.

 

Indeed

OP try to write it again, in a way that people will understand.

[tonray]

7 hours ago, viewfinder said:

and the security sum of 400.000 was not credited until 29.07.2020

Why did you wait so long ? The 400K sum in the bank for 2 months has been known for a long time...maybe you need to stay abreast of current regs instead of complaining.

[Don Mega]

Why will people living here on the basis of a visa be under criminal prosecution from 27.09.2020 ?

[RubbaJohnny]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

Indeed

OP try to write it again, in a way that people will understand.

I think it is a machine translation from possibly Gascon Francais Euskera ?

OP I suggest read many topics here and simplify yout requests

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, viewfinder said:

The people living here on the basis of a visa will be under criminal prosecution from 27.09.2020, even with a valid visa.

Who told you that nonsense. You would be subject to a one year ban for a overstay when leaving the country with overstay of more than 90 days and a 20k baht fine. If caught with an overstay you would be detained, deported and be banned for 5 years.

7 hours ago, viewfinder said:

It is of great importance whether the immigration authorities accept or even approve applications for a residence permit since the day of the declaration 24.07.2020.

There is no residence permit you can apply for unless you have stayed here for 3 consecutive years and working with a work permit.

[viewfinder]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

Indeed

OP try to write it again, in a way that people will understand.

 

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

Indeed

OP try to write it again, in a way that people will understand.

Post #1 The 2 questions
1) Is there anyone who can report that an immigration office has accepted or approved applications to convert a residence status from visa to residence permit after the report of 24.07.2020?
2) Which Thai visas can be considered safe in the future (context of border closure, delayed return or application for a residence permit when entering with a visa)?
The situation of crossing national borders has changed dramatically. Most countries have laws or at least guidelines with which one can react to changing situations or individual cases.  Thailand also has these instruments. Is Thailand reacting to the changed situation (Question 1)?

Contrary to some experience reports of other posters I never had problems with an immigration office. But I cannot submit my application. This can be a problem with the personnel structure or it can be tactics. If it is Tatik, even a return makes no sense from my point of view. So the real questions were: Is it worth the effort of an application and the risk to keep money on a Thai account? How meaningful is a return? But I think these kinds of questions are not useful.
 Real facts (reports) like:
> Immigration in place accepts applications. <
OR
> Immigration in place recommends "type of visa" for entry with the intention of a longer stay.<
I think it is more helpful in a decision making process.

[viewfinder]

36 minutes ago, tonray said:

Why did you wait so long ? The 400K sum in the bank for 2 months has been known for a long time...maybe you need to stay abreast of current regs instead of complaining.

400.000THB exceed my willingness to lose. If I have to leave Thailand, I do not get the money on the account granted to me.
If I get the information from a competent authority, "put the money here" and we change your residency status, then I have no problem with that. The money was transferred on 24.07. The first day of the official announcement.

[viewfinder]

44 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Why will people living here on the basis of a visa be under criminal prosecution from 27.09.2020 ?

I think you have misunderstood something. This is all about absolutely legal solutions without greasy agents and visas without consular interaction.

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

400.000THB exceed my willingness to lose. If I have to leave Thailand, I do not get the money on the account granted to me.
If I get the information from a competent authority, "put the money here" and we change your residency status, then I have no problem with that. The money was transferred on 24.07. The first day of the official announcement.

If you have to leave Thailand...transfer the money out. You make drama where there is none.

[viewfinder]

52 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Who told you that nonsense. You would be subject to a one year ban for a overstay when leaving the country with overstay of more than 90 days and a 20k baht fine. If caught with an overstay you would be detained, deported and be banned for 5 years.

There is no residence permit you can apply for unless you have stayed here for 3 consecutive years and working with a work permit.

Thanks ubonjoe,
Overstay???
My entire income comes from abroad and all my skills are blacklisted. I will never get a work permit. I try to apply for a residence permit for one year. This was already discussed with the Emmigration, but the borders closed before my last departure.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

1) Is there anyone who can report that an immigration office has accepted or approved applications to convert a residence status from visa to residence permit after the report of 24.07.2020?

Did you read my previous post.

You cannot a apply for residency.

You could apply for a one year extension of stay based upon marriage if you can meet the financial requirement and have a non-o visa entry.

28 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

2) Which Thai visas can be considered safe in the future (context of border closure, delayed return or application for a residence permit when entering with a visa)?

Visas are issued by embassies and consulates. A non-o visa allows a 90 day entry and are issued as single or multiple entries.

The only way to stay longer is to apply for a extension of stay.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

Overstay???

You would be on a overstay if you stayed in the country longer your permit to stay in the country or after September 26th if you did not apply for a extension of stay.

 

2 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

My entire income comes from abroad and all my skills are blacklisted. I will never get a work permit. I try to apply for a residence permit for one year. This was already discussed with the Emmigration, but the borders closed before my last departure.

Forget a about residency. You would not be able to qualify now and probably not later.

You can only apply for a extension of stay at immigration or leave the country to get a visa at embassy or consulate.

[viewfinder]

 

16 minutes ago, tonray said:

If you have to leave Thailand...transfer the money out. You make drama where there is none.

I have done and now I have brought it back again. I also unpacked my bags again.

[viewfinder]

28 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would be on a overstay if you stayed in the country longer your permit to stay in the country or after September 26th if you did not apply for a extension of stay.

 

Forget a about residency. You would not be able to qualify now and probably not later.

You can only apply for a extension of stay at immigration or leave the country to get a visa at embassy or consulate.

An overstay was never planned and I don't understand why I was accused of it. Ohh now I see [RubbaJohnny]. Yes my English is a disaster. What is meant is: All visa holders have to leave the country or are under threat of prosecution, being chased by the police or whatever ... Sorry I have never needed this term before.

 

If I have to leave Thailand, I will. But I also have to ask myself what I am taking with me or whether it makes sense to return. It is important to know whether immigration is responding to the pandemic problem. A perpetual continuation from amnesty to amnesty is not a good solution in my view. The official announcement of 24.07.2020 was an important step in the right direction. But I do not see or hear that immigration is reacting (can react) to it.

 

I was of the opinion that my valid visa could be converted into a residence permit (renewable for one year). My Immigration (before the border was closed) told me about the requirements. I hold a valid "NON-IM O" ME on the basis of a marriage.

I already used up my 60 days of extension shortly before the first amnesty.
During the penultimate amnesty it was said that I am now also under amnesty with my 60 days of extension and should do a border walk when everything is back to normal. Which was understandable in this situation. At the moment everything does not look normal at all.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

I was of the opinion that my valid visa could be converted into a residence permit (renewable for one year). My Immigration (before the border was closed) told me about the requirements. I hold a valid "NON-IM O" ME on the basis of a marriage.

I already used up my 60 days of extension shortly before the first amnesty.

That would be a one year extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai not a residence permit.

If you can meet the 400k baht in the bank for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income you should be able to apply for it.

[viewfinder]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That would be a one year extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai not a residence permit.

If you can meet the 400k baht in the bank for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income you should be able to apply for it.

Oh sorry, this is a problem with my translation. I was very shocked that I suddenly have to bring completely different conditions. Meanwhile I have my emotions a little more under control and write a little more calmly.

 

If you or anyone else is informed of a successful visa change application (preferably NON-IMM O married) to a PERMIT TO STAY, please let me know. It is understandable that in these times something does not work. However, the absence of the supposed normality, i.e. a plannable transfer from a legal residence status to a legal residence status adapted to the situation (visa -> permit to stay), points to a motivated action of immigration. But I hope that I am wrong and that application acceptances or even confirmations since 24.07.2020 can be found.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

If you or anyone else is informed of a successful visa change application (preferably NON-IMM O married) to a PERMIT TO STAY, please let me know.

There is no change done. If you are on a entry from a non-o visa you would apply for a extension of your entry from the visa.

Many have done it recently.

 

6 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

It is understandable that in these times something does not work. However, the absence of the supposed normality, i.e. a plannable transfer from a legal residence status to a legal residence status adapted to the situation (visa -> permit to stay), points to a motivated action of immigration.

Forget the any reference a residence status. You now are on a permit to stay from a non-o visa.

[BritTim]

If your inability to apply for a one-year extension of your permission to stay is purely because your 400,000 baht will not be seasoned in the bank it time, an alternative might be to get an income letter from your embassy, showing that you have a minimum income of 40,000 baht per month.

 

Some useful terminology

 

VISA: Usually issued by an embassy or consulate outside Thailand, and used to enter Thailand. As a special case, under certain circumstances, a visa can sometimes be issued by Immigration within Thailand, in which case it is immediately used giving a fresh 90-day permission to stay. This special case is used to change from the tourist type entry to a "non immigrant" type entry which has significance in terms of the types of extensions (see below) you can apply for. A visa has no significance when determining the current end of your permitted stay within Thailand.

PERMISSION TO STAY: The period of time you are given permission to stay in Thailand. On entry into Thailand, you are given an initial permission to stay (often called an entry stamp) in your passport which clearly indicates the expiry of your permission to stay.

EXTENSION: This is always given at an immigration office inside Thailand. It adjusts your current permission to stay to allow you to stay longer in the country. There are various justifications that can be used for an extension, each with conditions that must be met before it is granted.

PERMANENT RESIDENCE PERMIT: Gives an indefinite extension of your permission to stay, along with conferring certain other benefits. Very difficult to get.

[viewfinder]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

If your inability to apply for a one-year extension of your permission to stay is purely because your 400,000 baht will not be seasoned in the bank it time, an alternative might be to get an income letter from your embassy, showing that you have a minimum income of 40,000 baht per month.

 

Some useful terminology

 

VISA: Usually issued by an embassy or consulate outside Thailand ...

Thank you for the message. Please do not misunderstand. The income method (40,000) was not recognized (no children). I probably have a small file there and everything was always arranged. The final step was a last departure. However, the return trip was too risky. Ok, without breakfast I probably would have come back.

 

The basic problem for all visa holders living here in Thailand is to make a dramatic decision. Because if the immigration authorities only stick to their announced reset (whatever that is supposed to be) and do not react to the changed circumstances, the next months will be a deadly egg dance for many.

 

Example:
I hold a NON-IMM O that is valid until the turn of the year and I leave. Four days later I come back (is only an example). Of course with my valid long-term visa with which I can participate in the Phuket program. I can also apply for a new visa. Which visa should that be? NON-IMM O/Phuket?
After three weeks in Phuket I can go to my wife and report to my current immigration. This office will accept my report but probably not my application to change to "permit to stay".
So what has happened on the path that Thailand has put up for choice.
- I burned about 8.000 - 10.000 dollars
- I have passed countless sources of infection
- I have used up a space for returnees
Has my residence status changed? No
Have I got anything besides destruction of resources? No
What happens if the situation worsens? I have to leave the country again.
This is only a fictitious example with many holes. For me, planning the future on the basis of a departure makes no sense if I return to Thailand under the current conditions. With this basic consideration the question of a new visa would be solved negatively.

 

The most pleasant solution would be a solution in combination with immigration. But I have not yet read a single report that shows a possibility here. The compilation of the documents is an insignificant problem if you cannot submit the application (without being a guest of my passport country embassy).

[BritTim]

9 minutes ago, viewfinder said:

Thank you for the message. Please do not misunderstand. The income method (40,000) was not recognized (no children). I probably have a small file there and everything was always arranged. The final step was a last departure. However, the return trip was too risky. Ok, without breakfast I probably would have come back.

Do you are do you not have a Thai spouse? I am assuming you do because you say your problem is 400,000 baht not being seasoned is your problem. If 400,000 baht seasoned in the bank would be OK as financial proof, then an embassy letter confirming 40,000 baht per month income would be also. This is what the relevant part of the police order states:

 

See under (6) above.

[viewfinder]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no change done. If you are on a entry from a non-o visa you would apply for a extension of your entry from the visa.

Many have done it recently.

 

Forget the any reference a residence status. You now are on a permit to stay from a non-o visa.

I see something new here or do not understand it. Sorry, my English is a bit unusual. Can we consider the following circumstance?

Entry with NON-IMM O Multible
- 90 days stay on NON-IMM O valid until 24.12.2020

Extension by 60 days to 23.05.2020
- 60 days stay on NON-IMM O (first / last extension)

Amnesty II
- legal stay on Amnesty until 30.07.2020

Amnesty III
- legal stay on Amnesty until 26.09.2020

However, since 29.07. I have no contact anymore. Only bouncers - helpers who want to see the embassy letter.
This letter will most likely never happen.
Planned is an application for "permit to stay". Receipt of the 400.000 was on 29.07. Is there another extension?

[viewfinder]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Do you are do you not have a Thai spouse? I am assuming you do because you say your problem is 400,000 baht not being seasoned is your problem. If 400,000 baht seasoned in the bank would be OK as financial proof, then an embassy letter confirming 40,000 baht per month income would be also. This is what the relevant part of the police order states:

 

See under (6) above.

Cool, I've never seen this writing before. Thanks, as a solution suggestion such sources are worth gold. Otherwise there is an unregulated scope for every border police officer and immigration officer. That can be defined with "I don't like your face, get lost". This applies to every country and is important to be able to react to the most different circumstances. Exactly such a situation exists now.

The last Amnesty already contains definitions. Depending on the interpretation, it is the biggest deportation action in Thailand or a first adjustment to the given and for all difficult situation.

Don't worry, the money is there and my immigration office was extremely picky but also cooperative. There were no false statements or senseless demands. Clear simple rules, simple game. If things were normal again tomorrow, my problem would be solved by tomorrow evening. But now I can't even submit my application.