Italy sends help to Banksy's overloaded migrant rescue boat

[Orton Rd]

28 minutes ago, simple1 said:

EU and other countries have been fully aware of the push / pull factors from poverty ridden corrupt countries and conflict areas with people attempting to enter the EU for years, if not decades, Due to ill-advised foreign policy decisions, squabbling, complacency and all the other 'reasons' we have the situation we see today. It is well past due people stopped laying all the fault at the feet of the asylum seekers, no matter their status, the 'blame' lays with governments.

Wrong as usual the blame lies with people who pay traffickers large amounts of money to take them from safe countries to other countries where the hand outs are better. 'Asylum' is just a scam to get round immigration laws, only the simple minded believe otherwise.

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, Opl said:

Are you saying that Westerners should meddle in Islamic countries internal affairs against political Islam? 

This has been a failure repeatedly. 

What Westerners have to do urgently is to fight against political Islam on western soil. 

 

Arab Spring was an uprising in a number of countries by the people against corrupt dictatorships and their cruelty. What organised groups from 'Political Islam' were identified as being involved? I ask the question as Political Islam is often equated by some to extremist / terror groups, is that what you're claiming - extremists were driving the Arab Spring?

Edited August 30, 2020 by simple1

[CorpusChristie]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Hoko Haram still creating chaos, even though US assisting with weapons and training,

Do you have any proof of that , because the USA regards them as a terror organisation 

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Wrong as usual the blame lies with people who pay traffickers large amounts of money to take them from safe countries to other countries where the hand outs are better. 'Asylum' is just a scam to get round immigration laws, only the simple minded believe otherwise.

All-inclusive vilification claims without any facts to back up your opinions. The 'blame' lies with corrupt governments / dictatorships / repression of various groups / tribes etc

[Opl]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Arab Spring was an uprising in a number of countries by the people against corrupt dictatorships and their cruelty. What organised groups from 'Political Islam' were identified as being involved? I ask the question as Political Islam is often equated by some to extremist / terror groups, is that what you're claiming?

I'm referring to political Islam for exactly what it is : a social and political organization of the society that rules people's personal life submitted to so called faith believes, do's and don'ts.

The fact that these population vote for "corrupt dictorships" of their choice - this clan rather than the other-  is their business, not westerners' one.    

Edited August 30, 2020 by Opl

[Dap]

5 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

No idea why he is not being charged with people smuggling? He is actively trying to circumvent European immigration laws, and news that one person died on his boat (that is acting like a magnet tempting people to make unsafe dingy trips out to be "rescued" by Banksy's ship) should also carry charges. 

 Without laws we are no better than animals.

And to leave these desperate people in the ocean to die is far worse. He is not picking these folk up from dry land. What "people smuggling"? He is saving lives.

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Do you have any proof of that , because the USA regards them as a terror organisation 

 

 

 

No. maybe wasn't clear enough. US providing weapons etc to Nigerian govt, but govt acting unlawfully / not following counter insurgency methods - for a while US pulled out and stop supplying weapons. As you know still a significant Islamist problem in the region

Edited August 30, 2020 by simple1

[oobar]

4 hours ago, baansgr said:

<deleted> do we have to work into our seventies to pay for these leeches to breed and scrounge from our hard earned money.

I must have misread.  I thought they were talking about human beings.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No. maybe wasn't clear enough. US providing weapons etc to Nigerian govt, but govt acting unlawfully / not following counter insurgency methods - for a while US pulled out and stop supplying weapons. As you know still a significant Islamist problem in the region

What is the solution to that problem ?

[Opl]

1 minute ago, Dap said:

And to leave these desperate people in the ocean to die is far worse. He is not picking these folk up from dry land. What "people smuggling"? He is saving lives.

he is delivering what's included as such within the smuggling package : the last mile  

[Dap]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

he is delivering what's included as such within the smuggling package : the last mile  

Instead of letting them die. There is no justification for abandoning these people to death. 

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, Dap said:

Instead of letting them die. There is no justification for abandoning these people to death. 

because of course these people are so stupid they don't know the risk they take boarding an overloaded boat, right, but clever enough to use the leverage they have on us.   

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

What is the solution to that problem ?

 

Amateur opinion: force focus, funding and skilled resources, work closer with regional forces for border control, In parallel roll out programs to address the opportunity divide between North and South and by some miracle sort out tribal conflicts - dreaming eh...

[Dap]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

because of course these people are so stupid they don't know the risk they take boarding an overloaded boat, right, but clever enough to use the leverage they have on us.   

Hmm, "clever" eh? Putting their own and their children's lives in jeopardy to attain a better existence, and hoping against hope that someone out there will lend assistance. Yep, so clever. I will never be more grateful that I was so lucky to be born into a country that wasn't trying to kill me or my family, and "Lucky" is the operative term. It could easily have been otherwise and it's me and my kids that could be in those leaky, overloaded boats, or maybe even you and your family.

[englishoak]

11 minutes ago, Dap said:

Instead of letting them die. There is no justification for abandoning these people to death. 

 

what a drama queen ????

 

 

[Opl]

28 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Amateur opinion: force focus, funding and skilled resources, work closer with regional forces for border control, In parallel roll out programs to address the opportunity divide between North and South and by some miracle sort out tribal conflicts - dreaming eh...

this is all well, and this is the reason why we endlessly fund these countries one way or the other, including sponsoring their booming populations, nonetheless there is nothing you can do against:

- governements that find it more comfortable to extort funds from the International community rather than developing their economies since decades

- young people who rather take the shortcut to a better life in the West by leaving their countries, instead of fighting for progress and democracy  

Migration is the name of the game

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Opl

[Dap]

4 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

what a drama queen ????

 

 

Drama queen or not, they continue to die at sea striving for a better lives, and it could be the life you were born into. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Dap

[AhFarangJa]

Stop giving these leeches more money than a British pensioner is given, stop housing them in hotels but put them in disused army barracks with three bowls of soup and a slice of bread a day, and make them work at renovating the accommodation they are put in to offset the food and board.....................see how quickly the tide of immigrants would dry up.

[CorpusChristie]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Amateur opinion: force focus, funding and skilled resources, work closer with regional forces for border control, In parallel roll out programs to address the opportunity divide between North and South and by some miracle sort out tribal conflicts - dreaming eh...

The Western world needs to sort out its own internal problems, rather than galivanting  around the World telling everyone else what they should be doing 

[Logosone]

24 minutes ago, Dap said:

And to leave these desperate people in the ocean to die is far worse. He is not picking these folk up from dry land. What "people smuggling"? He is saving lives.

You are obviously under the impression that Pia Klemp and Sea watch fish drowning Africans out of the sea. The reality is rather different however.

 

Klemp and the crew colluded with smugglers to collect migrants at rendezvous points in the Mediterranean.

 

Despite the fact that Italian authorities have charged Klemp precisely with the above, Sea Watch, now financed by Banksy, persist in their misguided flouting of Italian laws and once again provoke Italian anger by forcing Italian coast guards to "save" Africans whom Sea Watch themselves put where they are. At Italian taxpayer expense.

 

It's not just people smuggling, it's organised people trafficking with an organised aim of forcing Italy to grant asylum to people who without Sea Watch and Klemp would not be where they are.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/12/captain-rescue-boat-faces-20-years-jail-convicted-illegally/

[Opl]

13 minutes ago, Dap said:

Hmm, "clever" eh? Putting their own and their children's lives in jeopardy to attain a better existence, and hoping against hope that someone out there will lend assistance. Yep, so clever. I will never be more grateful that I was so lucky to be born into a country that wasn't trying to kill me or my family, and "Lucky" is the operative term. It could easily have been otherwise and it's me and my kids that could be in those leaky, overloaded boats, or maybe even you and your family.

Give them the credit of beeing very well informed, they are the one who make the decision, you are just submitted to the fact that they leave you no choice. But at least don't pretend to be the good Samaritan, you're just fullfilling your part of the contract, you just omitted to discuss the rules. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Opl

[Dap]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

You are obviously under the impression that Pia Klemp and Sea watch fish drowning Africans out of the sea. The reality is rather different however.

 

Klemp and the crew colluded with smugglers to collect migrants at rendezvous points in the Mediterranean.

 

Despite the fact that Italian authorities have charged Klemp precisely with the above, Sea Watch, now financed by Banksy, persist in their misguided flouting of Italian laws and once again provoke Italian anger by forcing Italian coast guards to "save" Africans whom Sea Watch themselves put where they are. At Italian taxpayer expense.

 

It's not just people smuggling, it's organised people trafficking with an organised aim of forcing Italy to grant asylum to people who without Sea Watch and Klemp would not be where they are.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/12/captain-rescue-boat-faces-20-years-jail-convicted-illegally/

Talking to a brick wall will serve neither of us.

[Dap]

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

Give them the credit of beeing very well informed, they are the one who make the decision, you are just submitted to the fact that they leave you no choice. But at least don't pretend to be the good Samaritan, you're just fullfilling your part the contract you omitted to discuss the rules. 

Right! Rules. That must be what I'm talking about.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The Western world needs to sort out its own internal problems, rather than galivanting  around the World telling everyone else what they should be doing 

 

In parallel, must also work with other governments to address core matters

[Logosone]

Pia Klemp, the "captain" in charge of Banksy's mission which had to be rescued by the Italian coastal guard.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/12/captain-rescue-boat-faces-20-years-jail-convicted-illegally/

[Kadilo]

11 minutes ago, Dap said:

Hmm, "clever" eh? Putting their own and their children's lives in jeopardy to attain a better existence, and hoping against hope that someone out there will lend assistance. Yep, so clever. I will never be more grateful that I was so lucky to be born into a country that wasn't trying to kill me or my family, and "Lucky" is the operative term. It could easily have been otherwise and it's me and my kids that could be in those leaky, overloaded boats, or maybe even you and your family.

Excellent post and well said but tbh you are wasting your time on here tbh. The site has a large membership of racist, selfish and somewhat inhuman people who see desperate children and families as “leeches” and an inconvenience to their comfortable existence. 
 

Sad indictment of the world we live in today I’m afraid. 

 

[Dap]

20 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

Stop giving these leeches more money than a British pensioner is given, stop housing them in hotels but put them in disused army barracks with three bowls of soup and a slice of bread a day, and make them work at renovating the accommodation they are put in to offset the food and board.....................see how quickly the tide of immigrants would dry up.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not all, and if that is all it would take for a country to accept these immigrants, that country would not be able to accommodate the influx. These people are not afraid of work. Such a small price to pay for freedom. Ask them.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Dap

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, Opl said:

this is all well, and this is the reason why we endlessly fund these countries one way or the other, including sponsoring their booming populations, nonetheless there is nothing you can do against:

- governements that find it more comfortable to extort funds from the International community thant to develop their economy since decades

- young people who rather take the shortcut to a better life in the West by leaving their countries, instead of fighting for progress and democracy  

Migration is the name of the game

 

 

learn from the past, look to the future. cease endless recycling of rhetoric, Not working to seek solutions for core issues with not 'fix' the challenges, only repeat history. Educating and assisting vetted local people will contribute, so long as they are not murdered by the dictatorships / corrupt government with happens with sad regularity, including Thailand.

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

learn from the past, look to the future. cease endless recycling of rhetoric, Not working to seek solutions for core issues with not 'fix' the challenges, only repeat history. Educating and assisting vetted local people will contribute, so long as they are not murdered by the dictatorships / corrupt government with happens with sad regularity, including Thailand.

call it "recycling rhetoric" if it's comfortable, the fact is that our governments in the West now finally acknowledge the risks our societies are facing, and named it clearly.   

[Chomper Higgot]

Oh look, all of a sudden a bunch of folk have forgotten that a few short weeks ago they were screaming ‘All Lives Matter’.