Biden condemns Portland violence, says Trump 'recklessly encouraging' it

[Morch]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

He is saying what he should be saying "elected mayors do your JOB"

 

And yet, he is in no way making their job any easier. His statements inflame things, his actions are more authoritative than cooperative. He doesn't even bother to disguise the partisanship behind them.

 

It's all very well to criticize mayors, and sure some of them definitely play more partisan political games than they should, at this time. Some dropped the ball on their own turf. 

 

But they are local authorities. When it comes to the nation as a whole, it's up to the President to lead, if possible, by example. What Trump does is the opposite. Instead of working with, he's working against. A Trump supporter would surly posit that Trump offered to send troops, but would ignore the context and/or the spirit in which the offer was made. Confrontational, petty, and divisive.

 

It's not that I hope he'll change, but I doubt he exemplifies what's expected of a President times such as these.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I would say the same no matter who was in power. I feel for those business owners losing their stock, to the people threatened by the rioters, to normal, decent, everyday people who fear to go outside. Trump is President of everybody, as are all Presidents, not just 13% of the population who whinge and whine (not all of them but a significant number).  

 

You are aware that most of the protestors are them "everyday people", right? Even if they do not subscribe to your politics. That, and labeling "13%" of the population as whingers and whiners (yeah, yeah..."not all of them, but") are just more reasons to doubt your political affiliation and leaning.

[polpott]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

not just 13% of the population who whinge and whine

Would that be black people? Don't you think that they've got anything to "whinge and whine" about?

 

Do you know how racist that comment sounds?

[PattayaJames]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

Would that be black people? Don't you think that they've got anything to "whinge and whine" about?

Do you know how racist that comment sounds?

Do you know what a Race Baiter you sound?

Most of the violent left wing riotoers agitators ANTIFA are White as I am guessing you are too. 

 

 

[PattayaJames]

6 hours ago, polpott said:

He's already damned for being a proven racist who doesn't give a damn about black lives.

LOL

[jimmybcool]

On 8/31/2020 at 4:38 PM, LomSak27 said:

 

However none of this would have happened, if you did not have the women killed in a police raid in Louisville, at home on a non suspect. Followed by black guy jogging in Georgia, shotgunned by a homeowner. Finally police with knee on suspect suspects neck for what 8 minutes tell he dies.

Trump decided, given his epic fail with the wuhan pandemic, this might be his only campaign issue. Donald is dumping as much gasoline on it as he can as it is all he has left. Don't cry about it, embrace it. 

 

The raid in Louisville is something that needs to stop.  It is all based on the war on drugs which in itself has been an abject failure and destructive to the inner cities.  End that war and end no-knock raids on anything other than known violent terrorist groups (which would probably mean a few times a year at most).  BTW Breonna was killed in crossfire between her boyfriend and the cops.  She simply laid down with a dog and caught all the fleas.   

 

And I agree kneeling on someone who is cuffed on the ground is uncalled for.

 

Part I don't get is how is Trump dumping gasoline on this?  It is happening without his encouragement.  Sure, he is now using it to highlight the difference between parts of the country run by Democrats and Republicans but how is he fanning the flames?  Heck it was in flames just fine without his help.

[Scott]

Troll posts removed. 

 

[torturedsole]

18 hours ago, polpott said:

He's already damned for being a proven racist who doesn't give a damn about black lives.

Do black lives elicit some special global response that I'm not a party too?  

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply reported and removed.  

 

[kingdong]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:24 AM, simple1 said:

Sure, but trump has the power of government to broadcast his messaging with approx 60 million people who apparently believe every word he utters, including his ridiculous conspiracy stuff. Should not a president seek to deescalate tensions, rather than exacerbate them? A president who promotes destructive conspiracy theories, among a host of other flaws, IMO, must be removed from power on 3/11.

totally agree,trump should take the knee,hang his head in shame,and apologise for events that happened 200 years ago.

[MajarTheLion]

I don't see how Biden can say Trump is encouraging violence in Portland. Trump has repeatedly denounced it. He has offered the mayor help to stop the violence. I don't understand on what planet this constitutes encouraging violence. And we haven't even gotten into the feds Trump sent to end the violence in Portland. If anything, the Portland mayor has encouraged the violence by doing nothing and allowing it to continue. We can all see who is engaging in violence, what they stand for and who they are most aligned with. This is not going to go well for Democrats.

 

 

[Credo]

29 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

I don't see how Biden can say Trump is encouraging violence in Portland. Trump has repeatedly denounced it. He has offered the mayor help to stop the violence. I don't understand on what planet this constitutes encouraging violence. And we haven't even gotten into the feds Trump sent to end the violence in Portland. If anything, the Portland mayor has encouraged the violence by doing nothing and allowing it to continue. We can all see who is engaging in violence, what they stand for and who they are most aligned with. This is not going to go well for Democrats.

 

 

Trump's words ring hollow.  He does nothing to address the actual problems and he DID send FEDERAL TROOPS TO PORTLAND.   Remember?  How did that work out? 

 

All he did was escalate an already tense situation.   So his heavy handed approach did nothing to end the protests, riots or violence.   Another example of his ineptitude.   

 

[MajarTheLion]

33 minutes ago, Credo said:

Trump's words ring hollow.  He does nothing to address the actual problems and he DID send FEDERAL TROOPS TO PORTLAND.   Remember?  How did that work out? 

 

All he did was escalate an already tense situation.   So his heavy handed approach did nothing to end the protests, riots or violence.   Another example of his ineptitude.   

 

Trump cannot solve everything when the local government has no desire to end the riots. Heavy handed? Obviously not. But to address the topic directly, what is Trump doing to encourage violence? And since the approach was heavy-handed, how do you propose stopping these riots with a less heavy-handed approach?

[Credo]

31 minutes ago, MajarTheLion said:

Trump cannot solve everything when the local government has no desire to end the riots. Heavy handed? Obviously not. But to address the topic directly, what is Trump doing to encourage violence? And since the approach was heavy-handed, how do you propose stopping these riots with a less heavy-handed approach?

Start by assuring there will action on systemic racism.   Then start meeting with the leaders on all sides to see how best to solve it.   The ones who have the greatest influence on protesters is who they need to start meeting with.   I mean, if you could waste his time on Kim Jong Un, maybe he could take a little time for US citizens.

 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

Trump's words ring hollow.  He does nothing to address the actual problems and he DID send FEDERAL TROOPS TO PORTLAND.   Remember?  How did that work out? 

 

All he did was escalate an already tense situation.   So his heavy handed approach did nothing to end the protests, riots or violence.   Another example of his ineptitude.   

 

So are you saying the next wave of fed troops need to be more...heavy handed? Good point.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

totally agree,trump should take the knee,hang his head in shame,and apologise for events that happened 200 years ago.

 

Guess you haven't read the news - oppression and discrimination is happening right now

[jimmybcool]

11 hours ago, Credo said:

Start by assuring there will action on systemic racism.   Then start meeting with the leaders on all sides to see how best to solve it.   The ones who have the greatest influence on protesters is who they need to start meeting with.   I mean, if you could waste his time on Kim Jong Un, maybe he could take a little time for US citizens.

 

I need some clarification.  What is systemic racism.

 

Can't fix something without a real definition of the problem after all.

 

 

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

Start by assuring there will action on systemic racism.   Then start meeting with the leaders on all sides to see how best to solve it.   The ones who have the greatest influence on protesters is who they need to start meeting with.   I mean, if you could waste his time on Kim Jong Un, maybe he could take a little time for US citizens.

 

trump initially introduced legislation that provided opportunities of employment to ethnic minorities,seems to be forgotten now.

[MajarTheLion]

16 hours ago, Credo said:

Start by assuring there will action on systemic racism.   Then start meeting with the leaders on all sides to see how best to solve it.   The ones who have the greatest influence on protesters is who they need to start meeting with.   I mean, if you could waste his time on Kim Jong Un, maybe he could take a little time for US citizens.

 

I keep hearing this term "systematic racism". Specifically, what are you talking about? Do you have examples of laws or trends that indicate "systematic racism"?

[Credo]

4 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I need some clarification.  What is systemic racism.

 

Can't fix something without a real definition of the problem after all.

 

 

Systemic racism is the systems and structures that have procedures that disadvantages people of color.    Racist policies are endemic in many areas including the judicial system, health system, housing and other areas.  Much of what we are currently seeing is racism in the judicial system.   

For Blacks and people of color, from the time they encounter a police officer, they are more likely to face some form of abuse.   Whether they are shot, killed, or illegally detained, there is a difference in their treatment from whites.  In the court system, Blacks are more likely to be charged with the most serious charge, so they are more likely to get a 1st or 2nd degree murder charge rather than manslaughter or a lesser charge.   The same goes with lesser crimes.   They are also much more likely to have a public defender rather than a private attorney.   They are less likely to have the charges plead down to a lesser charge.   Sentencing for Blacks shows they spend more time in prison for the same crime.   

 

In housing, there was the policy of redlining, which denied blacks the ability to buy a home in many of the 'better' neighborhoods.   People of color were either outright denied loans for houses, or were charged a higher interest rate to buy a home, which effectively meant they could not.   Redlining was used by both Federal state and local government as well as private banks.   It is technically illegal, but still exists.   There is a subtle form of racism as well, whereby realtors 'steer' people of color toward their own neighborhoods.   

 

Keep in mind, that redlining also means the children of blacks are relegated to lesser schools.   

 

So systemic racism is practices that permeate numerous levels of the system and provides a different treatment than for the majority. 

[MajarTheLion]

14 minutes ago, Credo said:

Systemic racism is the systems and structures that have procedures that disadvantages people of color.    Racist policies are endemic in many areas including the judicial system, health system, housing and other areas.  Much of what we are currently seeing is racism in the judicial system.   

For Blacks and people of color, from the time they encounter a police officer, they are more likely to face some form of abuse.   Whether they are shot, killed, or illegally detained, there is a difference in their treatment from whites.  In the court system, Blacks are more likely to be charged with the most serious charge, so they are more likely to get a 1st or 2nd degree murder charge rather than manslaughter or a lesser charge.   The same goes with lesser crimes.   They are also much more likely to have a public defender rather than a private attorney.   They are less likely to have the charges plead down to a lesser charge.   Sentencing for Blacks shows they spend more time in prison for the same crime.   

 

In housing, there was the policy of redlining, which denied blacks the ability to buy a home in many of the 'better' neighborhoods.   People of color were either outright denied loans for houses, or were charged a higher interest rate to buy a home, which effectively meant they could not.   Redlining was used by both Federal state and local government as well as private banks.   It is technically illegal, but still exists.   There is a subtle form of racism as well, whereby realtors 'steer' people of color toward their own neighborhoods.   

 

Keep in mind, that redlining also means the children of blacks are relegated to lesser schools.   

 

So systemic racism is practices that permeate numerous levels of the system and provides a different treatment than for the majority. 

Blacks commit more crime per capita than whites. So it makes sense that they are going to have more negative interactions with police. I will post data on this below. But first, let's make a more extreme example of how different groups can have different kinds of interactions with police. Nuns and teenage boys. Which group is going to have more negative interactions with police? The answer is obvious, correct? Now let's take a look at murder statistics in the US. I am specifically choosing murder because it's a crime that either occurs or does not. It generally requires a body, so murder cases are basically impossible to create out of thin air.

 

2018 total murders: 6,570

murders committed by whites: 3,011

murders committed by blacks: 3,177

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

 

Total murders by blacks and whites is 6,188. Despite being only 13% of the population, blacks commit 48.6% of the murders committed by both blacks and whites. This means blacks are 3.7 times more likely to commit murder than whites. So yes, any group that commits 3.7 times more murders than another group can expect to have more negative interactions with police.

 

I welcome your thoughts on the logic presented. And feel free to look at other crime statistics if you think that will add value to the discussion.

 

So.... "systematic racism"? No. Some groups just commit more crime than others.

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by MajarTheLion
additional info

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, MajarTheLion said:

I keep hearing this term "systematic racism". Specifically, what are you talking about? Do you have examples of laws or trends that indicate "systematic racism"?

You mean besides white cops killing unarmed black people?

[MajarTheLion]

3 minutes ago, shdmn said:

You mean besides white cops killing unarmed black people?

Yes, because cops kill more white people, both armed and unarmed, than they do black people. Showing "systematic racism" would mean showing that blacks are being unjustly targeted. I'm sorry, but your example falls well short of showing "systematic racism".

[Credo]

1 hour ago, MajarTheLion said:

Blacks commit more crime per capita than whites. So it makes sense that they are going to have more negative interactions with police. I will post data on this below. But first, let's make a more extreme example of how different groups can have different kinds of interactions with police. Nuns and teenage boys. Which group is going to have more negative interactions with police? The answer is obvious, correct? Now let's take a look at murder statistics in the US. I am specifically choosing murder because it's a crime that either occurs or does not. It generally requires a body, so murder cases are basically impossible to create out of thin air.

 

2018 total murders: 6,570

murders committed by whites: 3,011

murders committed by blacks: 3,177

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

 

Total murders by blacks and whites is 6,188. Despite being only 13% of the population, blacks commit 48.6% of the murders committed by both blacks and whites. This means blacks are 3.7 times more likely to commit murder than whites. So yes, any group that commits 3.7 times more murders than another group can expect to have more negative interactions with police.

 

I welcome your thoughts on the logic presented. And feel free to look at other crime statistics if you think that will add value to the discussion.

 

So.... "systematic racism"? No. Some groups just commit more crime than others.

 

And that is why I usually don't reply to your posts.  Systemic racism is real and I have seen it in action on many occasions.   You are simply making excuses.   You are not comparing what happens statistically to a black person who commits the same crime as a white person.   That is what systemic racism is.   It is different treatment and that is why you have so many people out protesting.   

 

And what you post about 'more' whites being shot is nonsense.  Make a comparison by percentage of people shot.

 

Simple really.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Credo