UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, izod10 said:

scotland do not have a hope in hell of quitting the UK,and more so joining the EU,not a hope in hell      Wish they would though

me too,reading some of the attitudes posted on tvf,and i,mhalf scottish myself.

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But we didn't leave. As we are frequently reminded, Scotland was not an EU member. It was dragged out against its very clear wishes when England and Wales decided the rest of the UK had to do what they chose.

 

I have no doubt that the EU will be very happy to allow an already very aligned new member to come into the fold on very reasonable terms. 

 

That said, it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide how they wish their future ties with the EU to look. 

you having a laugh?do you honestly think barnier will do your little country any favours you,ll be dancing to the tune they whistle,and good luck with all the economic migrants you,re going to recieve,after all all members must shoulder the burden,well good luck and wackie dai boyo.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

It wasn't the SNP which campaigned for FPTP; that it benefits them is, of course, unintended - the Nasty Party and Labour thought that they would benefit all across the UK, not just in England.

 

I don't want my shortbread - I want shot of the whole, stinking corrupt system that you love and support so dearly. You seem eminently happy to have your pockets rifled and your kids' futures blighted; democracy says you should be entitled to that if it is what the majority of your country wants. It is well over half a century since my country last voted for that yet we are still forced to endure it. 

PR and a return to our 1688 BoR would do me RR, along with corporal punishment and hanging.

[kingdong]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah because you applied that logic to Brexit didnt you.

Difference is with independence we will know what the consequences are. There is only one form of independence.  

and if it hadn,t been for the antics of the remain camp,we,d have been out now and getting on with life.

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, kingdong said:

and if it hadn,t been for the antics of the remain camp,we,d have been out now and getting on with life.

Ah the old "Its someone else's fault".

Not an honest admission that Brexiteers had no idea what they were voting for and what Brexit would actually look like.

Hence all the delays as conservative government after conservative government tried to come up with which type of Brexit the UK actually wants. Its failure to do so ensured we will have the worst possible and most damaging Brexit. No deal.

Whether people voted for that or not.

 

[kingdong]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah the old "Its someone else's fault".

Not an honest admission that Brexiteers had no idea what they were voting for and what Brexit would actually look like.

Hence all the delays as conservative government after conservative government tried to come up with which type of Brexit the UK actually wants. Its failure to do so ensured we will have the worst possible and most damaging Brexit. No deal.

Whether people voted for that or not.

 

you missed the big red bus.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

you missed the big red bus.

Did the big red bus mention no deal Brexit?

[evadgib]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah the old "Its someone else's fault".

Not an honest admission that Brexiteers had no idea what they were voting for and what Brexit would actually look like.

Hence all the delays as conservative government after conservative government tried to come up with which type of Brexit the UK actually wants. Its failure to do so ensured we will have the worst possible and most damaging Brexit. No deal.

Whether people voted for that or not.

 

Full umbilical severance gets an 'I'm Spartacus' from me.

Rejoiners will thank us in the long run although none will dare admit it.

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Did the big red bus mention no deal Brexit?

of course it didn,t,as well you know it only mentioned the uks weekly contribution to the eu,don,t worry they,ll be another one along in a minute.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

of course it didn,t,as well you know it only mentioned the uks weekly contribution to the eu,don,t worry they,ll be another one along in a minute.

A figure which even Johnson has admitted was not accurate. Another vote leave lie.

[vogie]

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah the old "Its someone else's fault".

Not an honest admission that Brexiteers had no idea what they were voting for and what Brexit would actually look like.

Hence all the delays as conservative government after conservative government tried to come up with which type of Brexit the UK actually wants. Its failure to do so ensured we will have the worst possible and most damaging Brexit. No deal.

Whether people voted for that or not.

 

Remainers had a chance to vote, they thought that they were being smart and as it turned out by them not voting for anything, that is exactly what they got, zilch, zippo, nowt. Happy days.????

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Remainers had a chance to vote, they thought that they were being smart and as it turned out by them not voting for anything, that is exactly what they got, zilch, zippo, nowt. Happy days.????

Why would remainers vote for any form of Brexit?

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Why would remainers vote for any form of Brexit?

 

Because that is how democracy works, once the dice had been cast and leave won the vote to exit the EU, we had to leave, it is not that difficult, and just because you don't want to recognise this, that is neither here or there. Infact I suspect you know this but you are just looking for someone to pass the blame to.

For someone not to vote and then to start blaming the people that did vote is total beggars belief, I am sorry rookie, you own this.

 

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

Remainers had a chance to vote, they thought that they were being smart and as it turned out by them not voting for anything, that is exactly what they got, zilch, zippo, nowt. Happy days.????

At least we are all in agreement that Brexit was supported by little more than a third of the UK - no popular mandate at all. That so much turmoil and loss has been created by such a tiny minority is a scandal that will reverberate for generations, long after the only handful of years that the UK has left to limp along. 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

At least we are all in agreement that Brexit was supported by little more than a third of the UK - no popular mandate at all. That so much turmoil and loss has been created by such a tiny minority is a scandal that will reverberate for generations, long after the only handful of years that the UK has left to limp along. 

With a turnout of over 70% of the electorate, the only other way it could have been improved is to have called the army out and frog marched the electorate at gun point to the voting booths. 

 

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

At least we are all in agreement that Brexit was supported by little more than a third of the UK - no popular mandate at all. That so much turmoil and loss has been created by such a tiny minority is a scandal that will reverberate for generations, long after the only handful of years that the UK has left to limp along. 

The vote was a landslide in favour of leaving the ???????? under the T&C's in force at the time. 

Continuous 'Greetin' for a full four years afterwards serves no real purpose and it's time you stuck to those T&C's in relation to the centuries old concept known as 'losers consent'.

Edited September 20, 2020 by evadgib

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Because that is how democracy works, once the dice had been cast and leave won the vote to exit the EU, we had to leave, it is not that difficult, and just because you don't want to recognise this, that is neither here or there. Infact I suspect you know this but you are just looking for someone to pass the blame to.

For someone not to vote and then to start blaming the people that did vote is total beggars belief, I am sorry rookie, you own this.

 

So the Conservatives win an election and then everyone in the country has to support them?

Liverpool wins the league and everyone has to support them?

Thats not how democracy works. Democracy means having the right to hold an opposing viewpoint. It also means having the right to change your mind.

Democracy did not get suspended the day after the referendum.

I'm sorry you get so irate at people because they do not believe as you do. Remainers never did and never will want Brexit. Its our right to hold that view.

YOU voted for Brexit. YOU own it.

[vogie]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

So the Conservatives win an election and then everyone in the country has to support them?

Liverpool wins the league and everyone has to support them?

Thats not how democracy works. Democracy means having the right to hold an opposing viewpoint. It also means having the right to change your mind.

Democracy did not get suspended the day after the referendum.

I'm sorry you get so irate at people because they do not believe as you do. Remainers never did and never will want Brexit. Its our right to hold that view.

YOU voted for Brexit. YOU own it.

All your arguements are like Lizas bucket, it has a big hole in it and it doesn't hold water, so you better fix it dear Henry.

You voted for nothing and guess what, that's exactly what you are getting.

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

All your arguements are like Lizas bucket, it has a big hole in it and it doesn't hold water, so you better fix it dear Henry.

You voted for nothing and guess what, that's exactly what you are getting.

 

Thats just word salad. A completely contentless post. 

We are getting no deal Brexit because people voted for Brexit then voted for Johnson.

Now you did both of those things didnt you.

So the Brexit shambles sits squarely on you shoulders. 

You got what you voted for. 

Do not try to blame anyone but yourself. 

 

[vogie]

34 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thats just word salad. A completely contentless post. 

We are getting no deal Brexit because people voted for Brexit then voted for Johnson.

Now you did both of those things didnt you.

So the Brexit shambles sits squarely on you shoulders. 

You got what you voted for. 

Do not try to blame anyone but yourself. 

 

You don't buy a raffle ticket, you won't win a prize, and voila, you didn't. But remainers are par exellence at blaming others, you will have to carry your guilt for a very long time to come, next time vote!

 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

You don't buy a raffle ticket, you won't win a prize, and voila, you didn't. But remainers are par exellence at blaming others, you will have to carry your guilt for a very long time to come, next time vote!

 

Blaming others?

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit. Are you trying to say if you didnt vote you caused Brexit?

Seriously?

 

[vogie]

40 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Blaming others?

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit. Are you trying to say if you didnt vote you caused Brexit?

Seriously?

 

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit.

 

You are obviously struggling with the concept of how democracy works, the people vote, the winners are the people who amass the most votes, in this case the country chose to leave the EU. You can't, or at least shouldn't start to think that 'I don't care what the country voted for, because I am selfish and I want it to be all about me'. Suffice to say that the remainers in parliament had their chance to vote on a deal that may have been more to you and the remainers liking, but surreptitiously thought that if we keep on kicking the can down the road, bring in bills and amendments to try and stifle the will of the people there is a chance that Brexit would be reversed. Well how wrong the remainers were, you make your bed you have to lie in it. Sweet dreams.

 

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit.

 

You are obviously struggling with the concept of how democracy works, the people vote, the winners are the people who amass the most votes, in this case the country chose to leave the EU. You can't, or at least shouldn't start to think that 'I don't care what the country voted for, because I am selfish and I want it to be all about me'. Suffice to say that the remainers in parliament had their chance to vote on a deal that may have been more to you and the remainers liking, but surreptitiously thought that if we keep on kicking the can down the road, bring in bills and amendments to try and stifle the will of the people there is a chance that Brexit would be reversed. Well how wrong the remainers were, you make your bed you have to lie in it. Sweet dreams.

 

 

By your rationale, there would be no opposition in Westminster. The Tories won the last election, the opposition parties lost. All opposition MPs should therefore refrain from being "selfish" and not attempt to "stifle the will of the people", but should vote with the government.

 

On the positive side, it should make for strong government. Not sure it's quite what's meant by parliamentary democracy though.

Edited September 20, 2020 by RayC
Clarification

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Blaming others?

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit. Are you trying to say if you didnt vote you caused Brexit?

Seriously?

 

agree,

those who voted for Brexit caused Brexit, intentionally

 

but the mess, the shambles and the pii and poo - who caused that?

not the voters - its an honest thing to pick one of the options served in the ref.

 

I'd largely blame the UK Parliament for the mess, that is the main culprit

 

[Rookiescot]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

Its you guys who voted for Brexit that caused Brexit.

 

You are obviously struggling with the concept of how democracy works, the people vote, the winners are the people who amass the most votes, in this case the country chose to leave the EU. You can't, or at least shouldn't start to think that 'I don't care what the country voted for, because I am selfish and I want it to be all about me'. Suffice to say that the remainers in parliament had their chance to vote on a deal that may have been more to you and the remainers liking, but surreptitiously thought that if we keep on kicking the can down the road, bring in bills and amendments to try and stifle the will of the people there is a chance that Brexit would be reversed. Well how wrong the remainers were, you make your bed you have to lie in it. Sweet dreams.

 

 

And what was the "Will of the people?"

Mays deal?

No deal?

Which type of Brexit was the "Will of the people?"

 

Remainers didnt vote for Mays deal because it still meant leaving the EU. You are twisting logic to an extent that its broken. I know why you are desperately trying to pin the blame on anyone else but yourself.

Its because you know Brexit is going to be a disaster and you want to try and appease your conscience. 

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And what was the "Will of the people?"

Mays deal?

No deal?

Which type of Brexit was the "Will of the people?"

 

Remainers didnt vote for Mays deal because it still meant leaving the EU. You are twisting logic to an extent that its broken. I know why you are desperately trying to pin the blame on anyone else but yourself.

Its because you know Brexit is going to be a disaster and you want to try and appease your conscience. 

So your whole arguement is that a democratic vote should be ignored because it didn't go your way, if that is the case, you do not have an arguement. And repeating your repetetive mantra will not change anything.

Edited September 21, 2020 by vogie

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

So your whole arguement is that a democratic vote should be ignored because it didn't go your way, if that is the case, you do not have an arguement. And repeating your repetetive mantra will not change anything.

How was the referendum ignored?

[sandyf]

On 9/5/2020 at 1:12 PM, nauseus said:

If Scottish independence was so favoured as recently as 6 years ago then why didn't you vote for it then? 

I didn't agree with the independence proposal of 2014.

Despite what some would prefer to believe, circumstances and people do change.

Isn't marriage supposed to be a once in a lifetime event, or are you in favour of dispensing with the divorce courts as well.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, vogie said:

You don't buy a raffle ticket, you won't win a prize, and voila, you didn't. But remainers are par exellence at blaming others, you will have to carry your guilt for a very long time to come, next time vote!

 

I voted in person.

The EU referendum bill made the outcome a unilateral decision by England and now the perpetrators cannot face the fallout.

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How was the referendum ignored?

Only by Boris winning the 2019 election by an astounding majority was the referendum not ignored, the people spoke and all thoughts of revoking or having another go at voting to overturn the democratic decision of the UK was thrown back into history, but I'm sure the remainers will be remembered as the people who tried to overturn democracy. 

You own where we are today, make the most of it and enjoy the ride.