UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Your assertion that the SNP is a fundamentally anti English entity, and that the desire for Scottish independence is driven by a hatred of the English.

I have a written post from a fellow Scots partitionist which I have shown you, I can show you it again if you've had a memory lapse, there are scores of the Scot Nationalists burning our union flag, banners with 'England out of Scotland' I would be very carefull when you throw your xenophobic accusations about, England does not have a Nationalist party in parliament like the SNP now does it. Ignore the evidence as much as you want RR, but at your own peril.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scots, by a majority, supported independence in 2014. Independence was, unfortunately, nixed by English and European voters topping up the votes of the minority of Scots who voted in support of the union. But that is how the voting franchise was set up so there is no point complaining. 

 

Since then, more and more English and European voters, plus sceptical Scots, have moved to the indy side. Such that the only people who want to remain in the union are those Labour supporters who still fetishise about a socialist brotherhood, and those ever diminishing tories.

More and more English and European voters have moved to the indy side you say. Tell you what might be a fair and democratic way of doing things, why not let the Scots, no matter where they live, whether it be Berwick or Bierut to vote on the future of their country, could it be that Mrs Sturgeon doesn't expect them to vote her way?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have a written post from a fellow Scots partitionist which I have shown you, I can show you it again if you've had a memory lapse, there are scores of the Scot Nationalists burning our union flag, banners with 'England out of Scotland' I would be very carefull when you throw your xenophobic accusations about, England does not have a Nationalist party in parliament like the SNP now does it. Ignore the evidence as much as you want RR, but at your own peril.

 

One example from a drive by poster, and one idiot who is roundly condemned by all and sundry is enough to denigrate 58% of my country? Fair enough, if that is how you think then so be it. It explains why you support Brexit, I suppose. 

 

OK next question - how do you interpret the burning of the UK flag as being anti English? I interpret it as being juvenile and embarrassing but it is no attack on the English as far as I can see. 

 

Your lack of knowledge of the difference between a National party and a Nationalist party is evident. I know that Johnson likes to try to be clever in his infantile way by calling them Nationalists, but that does not make it so. When I call his party the Nasty Party that is because the evidence to support that claim is overwhelming. He tries it with the SNP and it rings hollow because all he has are his fatuous words. 

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

More and more English and European voters have moved to the indy side you say. Tell you what might be a fair and democratic way of doing things, why not let the Scots, no matter where they live, whether it be Berwick or Bierut to vote on the future of their country, could it be that Mrs Sturgeon doesn't expect them to vote her way?

 

I never said anything about being undemocratic. In fact, I support the limiting of the franchise to those who choose to live in and support the country. The result in 2014 was disappointing but it was certainly not undemocratic in how it was executed.

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

I never said anything about being undemocratic. In fact, I support the limiting of the franchise to those who choose to live in and support the country. The result in 2014 was disappointing but it was certainly not undemocratic in how it was executed.

All Scots should have a say on the future of their country, do you agree?

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

All Scots should have a say on the future of their country, do you agree?

 

They should be allowed to freely express an opinion, but if they do not live there and do not contribute to it in normal manner then I do not agree that they should be allowed to have a vote on its future. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by RuamRudy

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

They should be allowed to freely express an opinion, but if they do not live there and do not contribute to it in normal manner then I do not agree that they should be allowed to have a vote on its future. 

And there we have it, no further questions m'lud. ????????????

[transam]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

They should be allowed to freely express an opinion, but if they do not live there and do not contribute to it in normal manner then I do not agree that they should be allowed to have a vote on its future. 

But, foreigners that are working/living in Scotland can vote and the next day retire and/or just move back to their own country, a Scot working/living outside Scotland may do the same and return to his birthplace, yet you say they should not be able to vote on their own birthplace yet a departing foreigner can...... Total nonsense...????

[bkkcanuck8]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

All Scots should have a say on the future of their country, do you agree?

You mean in the same manner of excluding 700,000 UK citizens from the right to vote in Brexit?  (i.e. those making use of the right of abode anywhere in the EU - those most directly affected by Brexit).

[transam]

2 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You mean in the same manner of excluding 700,000 UK citizens from the right to vote in Brexit?  (i.e. those making use of the right of abode anywhere in the EU - those most directly affected by Brexit).

Who couldn't vote on Brexit....?

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Who couldn't vote on Brexit....?

Any UK citizen that had was living in another EU country for 15 years or more...  i.e. those making use of the freedom of movement for employment purposes.  (something that they could possibly lose the right to on Brexit)

Edited October 24, 2020 by bkkcanuck8

[transam]

11 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Any UK citizen that had was living in another EU country for 15 years or more...  i.e. those making use of the freedom of movement for employment purposes.  (something that they could possibly lose the right to on Brexit)

Such is life, those folk chose to relocate, same as me with all its pitfalls..The motherland comes first, those who are outside did so at their own peril/gamble...

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Such is life, those folk chose to relocate, same as me with all its pitfalls..The motherland comes first, those who are outside did so at their own peril/gamble...

I expect you will have the same attitude if the referendum in Scotland excludes Scottish citizens similarly residing in England as well.  (i.e. those taking advantage of free movement of labour).

[transam]

17 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I expect you will have the same attitude if the referendum in Scotland excludes Scottish citizens similarly residing in England as well.  (i.e. those taking advantage of free movement of labour).

Read my post ...

 

[vogie]

44 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You mean in the same manner of excluding 700,000 UK citizens from the right to vote in Brexit?  (i.e. those making use of the right of abode anywhere in the EU - those most directly affected by Brexit).

By anybodies standards 15 years to vote is better than none, I know it's not perfect, in my opinion we should never lose the right to vote, after all we don't lose the right to pay our taxes do we.

[herfiehandbag]

5 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You mean in the same manner of excluding 700,000 UK citizens from the right to vote in Brexit?  (i.e. those making use of the right of abode anywhere in the EU - those most directly affected by Brexit).

Just out of interest - does a Canadian who has elected to live outside of Canada for more than let us say 15 years retain the right to vote?

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Just out of interest - does a Canadian who has elected to live outside of Canada for more than let us say 15 years retain the right to vote?

Yes, voting rights are (now) considered inalienable.  Every Canadian citizen 18 years of age has the right to vote - that extends to expats overseas -- and even convicts serving their sentence in a prison.  The last revision of the law had limited it to residents only - by reason that you are not living in a riding and people are don't vote for the leader they vote for the candidate in their riding.  This was challenged in the court and the Supreme Court of Canada decided that the law was unconstitutional and restored the rights of Canadians living abroad - so the government had to figure out what criteria to use to find a riding for you (in most cases your last residence in Canada would be the riding you are in).   In the UK though, the Brexit referendum was not a riding based election - but a referendum that directly affected the rights and privileges of all UK citizens regardless of where they lived.   (far more than me as an expat not being able to vote for a riding candidate).  The fact that the UK excluded expats because they took advantage of the rights that they had as a member of an EU country -- is absolutely wrong (IMHO). 

[evadgib]

49 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Yes, voting rights are (now) considered inalienable.  Every Canadian citizen 18 years of age has the right to vote - that extends to expats overseas -- and even convicts serving their sentence in a prison.  The last revision of the law had limited it to residents only - by reason that you are not living in a riding and people are don't vote for the leader they vote for the candidate in their riding.  This was challenged in the court and the Supreme Court of Canada decided that the law was unconstitutional and restored the rights of Canadians living abroad - so the government had to figure out what criteria to use to find a riding for you (in most cases your last residence in Canada would be the riding you are in).   In the UK though, the Brexit referendum was not a riding based election - but a referendum that directly affected the rights and privileges of all UK citizens regardless of where they lived.   (far more than me as an expat not being able to vote for a riding candidate).  The fact that the UK excluded expats because they took advantage of the rights that they had as a member of an EU country -- is absolutely wrong (IMHO). 

A private members bill that would have restored the right to vote to Brits worldwide failed at the very last hurdle when HMG failed to nudge it through at the end of last year when the starting gun was fired for the general election. HMG had promised to resolve the issue during that Parliament.

Some years ago I worked out that there were enough Brits caught up in this nonsence to fill 80 average Parliamentary constituencies; That IMO is far to big a number to ignore.

HTH

[7by7]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:27 PM, mommysboy said:

As I remember the last vote was in 2014, was done according to SNP designs, and was to be a 'once and for all' referendum.

 

Kindly show us where in the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 it says "once and for all."

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   You may quote the headline and 3 sentences, then a link to the remainder of an article.   A screenshot doesn't make the cut.  

 

[RuamRudy]

A solution to the independence issue - Scotland takes over running the UK? 

 

Nicola Sturgeon now more popular in England than Boris Johnson

 

IT is well known that Nicola Sturgeon is more liked than Boris Johnson in Scotland – but now the SNP leader has overtaken the Prime Minister in the popularity stakes south of the Border as well.

[englishoak]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

A solution to the independence issue - Scotland takes over running the UK? 

 

Nicola Sturgeon now more popular in England than Boris Johnson

 

IT is well known that Nicola Sturgeon is more liked than Boris Johnson in Scotland – but now the SNP leader has overtaken the Prime Minister in the popularity stakes south of the Border as well.

 

Ahh the lost and delusional  dreams of Scotland running the UK.  Meanwhile England actually does and will continue to do just that. 

 

I can assure you south of the border the SNP are about as popular as the lib dems... its just another silly fantasy delusion Scots seem to entertain because emotions. These inflated egos seem to manifest more once they actually leave Scotland... rose specs i guess.  

 

Do you not get tired whining and harping on about the same thing topic after topic ? 

 

Wheres that dead horse icon gone ? 

[evadgib]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:58 AM, RuamRudy said:

 

It is a UK government link. Even they are not so stupid as to tell the truth about their incompetence, lies or corruption. What do you expect them to say?

 

While we do make blue cheese in Scotland, I am not sure that any uptick in blue cheese sales will be sufficient to offset the massive negative impact which will be felt in Scotland from the stupidity of the Brexit we overwhelmingly rejected but is being forced upon us by another country.

Have a wee dram RR ????

 

[7by7]

On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, englishoak said:

<snip>

Ahh the lost and delusional  dreams of Scotland running the UK.  Meanwhile England actually does and will continue to do just that

 Which is the problem! Many Scots want to run their own affairs and not be subject to us English; especially not be pulled out of the EU against their will.

 

I feel that considering the major change since 2014 of Brexit that Scots should be asked again; stay in the UK outside the EU or leave the UK and go it alone; in or out of the EU. 

 

Why are you so against asking them that question? Scared that the answer wont be to your liking?

 

On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, englishoak said:

<snip>

I can assure you south of the border the SNP are about as popular as the lib dems

As the SNP have never put candidates up for election in England, how can you tell?

 

Opinion polls are not, of course, infallible, but:

(Source)

Edited October 27, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, evadgib said:

Have a wee dram RR ????

 

 

Have you tasted it? It acqits itself pretty well according to this review. I much prefer my whisky to be smooth and uncomplicated so maybe worth a try. 

 

Whisky Review: The English Whisky Company Classic Single Malt

 

The English Whisky Company Classic Single Malt is a straightforward, easy-drinking single malt—there’s not a lot of complexity, but it’s well-balanced, approachable, and pleasant, with some nice soft fruit and candy notes to round out the smoke.

[evadgib]

'Nae Fush'?

UK signs fisheries agreement with the Faroe Islands

Quote

The UK signs second fisheries agreement since leaving the EU, following earlier successful agreement with Norway.

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

heard an interesting discussion on the wireless earlier this week,

political analysts discussing the separation of Scotland from UK;

 

they seemed to agree that the surfacing of the Corona virus had significantly

increased the interest for separation in Scotland

 

[RuamRudy]

On 10/30/2020 at 8:06 AM, melvinmelvin said:

 

heard an interesting discussion on the wireless earlier this week,

political analysts discussing the separation of Scotland from UK;

 

they seemed to agree that the surfacing of the Corona virus had significantly

increased the interest for separation in Scotland

 

 

That is a significant factor, I am sure; the incompetence and corruption dished out in bucketfuls by Johnson and his cabinet has not gone unnoticed, but the bigger take-away, I am sure, is the competent, level headed response of the Scottish Government to the crisis. They haven't got everything right by any means, but they have not obfuscated or shirked away from responsibility. They have been practical, pragmatic and consistent in their approach. This level of accountability has impressed the electorate significantly.

 

This poll was released earlier this week, although the polling itself was carried out a month ago. That said, surely nothing which has occurred in that time has cast the union in a more favourable light? It is worth also pointing out that this is something like the 7th consecutive poll that has shown independence as a majority preference. 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by RuamRudy

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

That is a significant factor, I am sure; the incompetence and corruption dished out in bucketfuls by Johnson and his cabinet has not gone unnoticed, but the bigger take-away, I am sure, is the competent, level headed response of the Scottish Government to the crisis. They haven't got everything right by any means, but they have not obfuscated or shirked away from responsibility. They have been practical, pragmatic and consistent in their approach. This level of accountability has impressed the electorate significantly.

 

This poll was released earlier this week, although the polling itself was carried out a month ago. That said, surely nothing which has occurred in that time has cast the union in a more favourable light? It is worth also pointing out that this is something like the 7th consecutive poll that has shown independence as a majority preference. 

 

 

Scotland has played a blunder regarding corona,and their independence when the vote occurs will be assured.

[RuamRudy]

18 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Scotland has played a blunder regarding corona,and their independence when the vote occurs will be assured.

 

Blunder or blinder? We need to know! 

Edited October 31, 2020 by RuamRudy