Saudi King Salman tells Trump no Israeli normalisation without Palestinian statehood

[webfact]

Saudi King Salman tells Trump no Israeli normalisation without Palestinian statehood

 

FILE PHOTO: Saudi Arabia's King Salman bin Abdulaziz meets with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (not pictured) in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia January 14, 2019. Picture taken January 14, 2019. Andrew Caballero-Reynolds/Pool via REUTERS

 

CAIRO (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's ruler King Salman bin Abdulaziz told President Donald Trump there would be no normalisation with Israel without Palestinian statehood, the kingdom's state news agency reported on Monday.

 

The leaders spoke by phone following a historic U.S. brokered accord last month under which the United Arab Emirates agreed to become the third Arab state to normalise ties with Israel after Egypt and Jordan.

 

King Salman told Trump he appreciated U.S. efforts to support peace and that Saudi Arabia wanted to see a fair and permanent solution to the Palestinian issue based on the Arab Peace Initiative proposed by the kingdom in 2002.

 

Under the proposal, Arab nations have offered Israel normalised ties in return for a statehood deal with the Palestinians and full Israeli withdrawal from territory captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

 

Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam and site of its holiest shrines, does not recognise Israel.

 

However, this month the kingdom said it would allow flights between UAE and Israel, including by Israeli airliners, to use its airspace.

 

White House adviser and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner has said he hopes another Arab country normalizes ties with within months.

 

No other Arab state has said so far it is considering following the UAE.

 

King Salman's son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and Kushner discussed the need for the Palestinians and the Israelis to resume negotiations and reach a lasting peace after Kushner visited the UAE last month.

 

The UAE-Israel deal was met by overwhelming Palestinian opposition.

 

(Reporting by Alaa Swilam, writing by Alexander Cornwell; Editing by Peter Cooney and Richard Pullin)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-09-07

 

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[ezzra]

The old lion is on his very last leg of his life's journey, once he's gone, the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say and he's no fan of the Palestinians and a very modern thinker...

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

^^ The crown doesn't rule Saudi, the religious do, but they allow the crown to think they do, IMO.

 

I don't often support anything Saudi, but I hope they stay the course.

[tonray]

16 minutes ago, ezzra said:

the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say

He does believe Israeli made bone saws are of the highest quality

[dexterm]

Well done King Salman, sticking to the Peace Initiative of 2002 and repeated twice since. UAE sold out for nothing in return.

 

The deal has been on the table for decades. It's just Israeli intransigence that they want their cake and eat it too. Not satisfied with land they took 1947-66, they want to annex more, but don't want to annex the indigenous Palestinians living there. Pure racism.

 

What's so bad about a confederation of two states? Or my preference, a single state with a bi-cameral parliament 50:50 Jewish:non-Jewish reps? With security precautions and penalties for religious fanatics on both sides who may want to make trouble, Israelis and Palestinians could live, work and worship in each other's countries and enjoy full diplomatic, travel, and economic relations with the whole Arab and Muslim world.

 

Trump and Kushner's fudged apartheid deal with a patchwork quilt of bantustans in a non state for Palestinians ain't going to cut the mustard or bring permanent peace.

 

Looks like the Nobel Peace Prize is awaiting Biden or Harris, if they can get their act together. Another big fail for Trump. 

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Another big fail for Trump. 

Kushner and Trump are hailing the deal with the Emirates as "The greatest peace deal ever". Actually its a deal between Israel and a tiny gulf state who are insignificant in the Arab world. The biggest non deal ever. Come back when one of the big hitters such as Iran, Syria or Saudi have signed on to it.

[spidermike007]

This is going to put Trump in a difficult position, as he has a hard time saying no to despotic leaders and nations. 

[melvinmelvin]

57 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well done King Salman, sticking to the Peace Initiative of 2002 and repeated twice since. UAE sold out for nothing in return.

 

The deal has been on the table for decades. It's just Israeli intransigence that they want their cake and eat it too. Not satisfied with land they took 1947-66, they want to annex more, but don't want to annex the indigenous Palestinians living there. Pure racism.

 

What's so bad about a confederation of two states? Or my preference, a single state with a bi-cameral parliament 50:50 Jewish:non-Jewish reps? With security precautions and penalties for religious fanatics on both sides who may want to make trouble, Israelis and Palestinians could live, work and worship in each other's countries and enjoy full diplomatic, travel, and economic relations with the whole Arab and Muslim world.

 

Trump and Kushner's fudged apartheid deal with a patchwork quilt of bantustans in a non state for Palestinians ain't going to cut the mustard or bring permanent peace.

 

Looks like the Nobel Peace Prize is awaiting Biden or Harris, if they can get their act together. Another big fail for Trump. 

 

largely agree with what you say except for the last bit,

in my view nothing with a US hand on/in it will ever sell in the middle east, regardless of its quality

 

the US has since quite long used/spent all her chips in the middle east, (so has UK),

and they (the chips) will never come back

 

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

The old lion is on his very last leg of his life's journey, once he's gone, the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say and he's no fan of the Palestinians and a very modern thinker...

Yeah, killing and dismembering critics in foreign embassies is very 21st century

[riclag]

The best no war's POTUS ever imop

 

Thank you 

[candide]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

The old lion is on his very last leg of his life's journey, once he's gone, the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say and he's no fan of the Palestinians and a very modern thinker...

He's able to make cutting-edge decisions! ????

[polpott]

29 minutes ago, riclag said:

The best no war's POTUS ever imop

 

Thank you 

Was there a threat of war from the Emirates?

[Thorgal]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

^^ The crown doesn't rule Saudi, the religious do, but they allow the crown to think they do, IMO.

 

I don't often support anything Saudi, but I hope they stay the course.

It’s actually the Saudi royal dynasty that controls the holy cities of Islam nowadays.

 

They’ve ousted the Jordanian guards out of Mekkah and Medina since the 3rd Kingdom of Al Saud. Historically, those Jordanian religious guards have protected religious cities like Jerusalem, Mekkah and Medina.

Those Jordanian guards in Islam had the same religious status like the Swiss guards in Catholic Vatican.

 

Royal Saudi family originates from tribes coming from norther region close to Kuwait and Qatar.

     

US, Israel and KSA are nations created by illegal conquest.

They should not dictate the Palestinians.

[polpott]

18 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

It’s actually the Saudi royal dynasty that controls the holy cities of Islam nowadays.

 

They’ve ousted the Jordanian guards out of Mekkah and Medina since the 3rd Kingdom of Al Saud. Historically, those Jordanian religious guards have protected religious cities like Jerusalem, Mekkah and Medina.

Those Jordanian guards in Islam had the same religious status like the Swiss guards in Catholic Vatican.

 

Royal Saudi family originates from tribes coming from norther region close to Kuwait and Qatar.

     

US, Israel and KSA are nations created by illegal conquest.

They should not dictate the Palestinians.

The Saudi royal family swear allegiance to the Wahhabi. Always have, still do. Progenitors of 9/11. They swear to the destruction of Israel not subservience to it.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

The old lion is on his very last leg of his life's journey, once he's gone, the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say and he's no fan of the Palestinians and a very modern thinker...

 

Yes, once the old king is out, and the new guy is in, there may be some changes. But until that happens, he's been effectively reprimanded by this statement. As for "no fan of the Palestinians", maybe so, but that does not imply his a fan of Israel, either. He does what he thinks best for his country and himself, not necessarily in that order. A very modern thinker? There were some reforms, there is an acknowledgement that KSA must change. But at the same time, still a very authoritative leader, without certain inhibitions regarding what is acceptable and what not.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

^^ The crown doesn't rule Saudi, the religious do, but they allow the crown to think they do, IMO.

 

I don't often support anything Saudi, but I hope they stay the course.

 

Why?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

Well done King Salman, sticking to the Peace Initiative of 2002 and repeated twice since. UAE sold out for nothing in return.

 

The deal has been on the table for decades. It's just Israeli intransigence that they want their cake and eat it too. Not satisfied with land they took 1947-66, they want to annex more, but don't want to annex the indigenous Palestinians living there. Pure racism.

 

What's so bad about a confederation of two states? Or my preference, a single state with a bi-cameral parliament 50:50 Jewish:non-Jewish reps? With security precautions and penalties for religious fanatics on both sides who may want to make trouble, Israelis and Palestinians could live, work and worship in each other's countries and enjoy full diplomatic, travel, and economic relations with the whole Arab and Muslim world.

 

Trump and Kushner's fudged apartheid deal with a patchwork quilt of bantustans in a non state for Palestinians ain't going to cut the mustard or bring permanent peace.

 

Looks like the Nobel Peace Prize is awaiting Biden or Harris, if they can get their act together. Another big fail for Trump. 

 

 

As expected, a staggering show of hypocrisy for some posters. UAE rulers opt for normalizing of relations with Israel, and it's tantrum like rants filled with dictators,  oppressive, the people not being consulted or even going on about torture and such. KSA chooses otherwise, and not a word about how the country is run on even harsher lines than the UAE. Apparently, it's alright to be an oppressive dictatorship, so long as your support poster's agenda.

 

As for the usual nonsense points in the post above:

 

- The UAE did not sign the agreement for "nothing in return". That you do not accept countries may have interests and priorities differing from your creed of politics carries little weight, and does not make your comments factual.

 

- The Arab Peace Initiative was rejected by the Hamas, representing a significant number of Palestinians. The hypocrisy highlighted above is evident again, seeing as the Palestinian people were not actually asked for their views, nor voted on accepting/rejecting the plan. Quite obviously, such matters only interest you when they fit your narrative.

 

- Some of the future participants/signatories of the Arab Peace Initiative fail to address domestic affairs, or indeed, speak in one voice (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and the Palestinians themselves being easy examples). And yet you would have people believe that nothing changed.

 

- It's not so much a what-so-bad question, but more to do with sides (yes, not just Israel) unable to agree on things. You want to continue pushing your fringe politics? That's fine, so long as you acknowledge that they do not represent Palestinian public opinion and wishes much. 

 

- The usual rosy fantasies of living happily ever after in harmony are cute. Now go visit the ME, and find a single country where full western democracy values are adhered to. Or one in which ethnic groups live without any ongoing or reoccurring strife. Kinda doubt that picking one of the most explosive conflicts, situated in an already problematic region, and applying copy-pasted ideological solutions could be taken seriously. Maybe better places for your kind of social experiments.

 

- The Trump/Kushner thing is what it is. I doubt anyone seriously expects it to bring about permanent a permanent peace, present acceptable, workable all-around solutions, or answer the wishes of all parties involved. That said, even a measure of normalcy, and less hostility in such a volatile region ought to be sought, rather than disparaged.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

Kushner and Trump are hailing the deal with the Emirates as "The greatest peace deal ever". Actually its a deal between Israel and a tiny gulf state who are insignificant in the Arab world. The biggest non deal ever. Come back when one of the big hitters such as Iran, Syria or Saudi have signed on to it.

 

It is definitely not the greatest peace deal ever. For starters, there wasn't even a state of war between the two countries, and even if there was it would have been pretty much meaningless given the distance and relative power. Further, relations were already in place, if unofficially, and for quite a long time now.

 

That said, it's no nothing-burger, either. Given the relative solidarity (or adhering to similar policies) by Arab countries on this matter, it's quite a break from tradition. In a region dominated by certain semi-permanent narratives, it's quite a move. As marking the path or paving the way for other countries to act similarly, it is significant.

 

The bit about the UAE being "insignificant in the Arab world" is simply out of touch with reality. Not a big country, for sure, but as for influence? You got to be kidding, or uninformed. Syria, for example, is neither a "big hitter", nor by itself significant. Iran is not part of the Arab world, and Saudi Arabia is generally more cautious making such moves - often letting it's smaller neighbors test the waters first.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

It’s actually the Saudi royal dynasty that controls the holy cities of Islam nowadays.

 

They’ve ousted the Jordanian guards out of Mekkah and Medina since the 3rd Kingdom of Al Saud. Historically, those Jordanian religious guards have protected religious cities like Jerusalem, Mekkah and Medina.

Those Jordanian guards in Islam had the same religious status like the Swiss guards in Catholic Vatican.

 

Royal Saudi family originates from tribes coming from norther region close to Kuwait and Qatar.

     

US, Israel and KSA are nations created by illegal conquest.

They should not dictate the Palestinians.

 

I'll ignore the irrelevant "historical" waffle on offer, and address the closing bit.

 

Almost all countries, if one digs back, were created by some "illegal" conquest or something similar. I'm not aware that there's any principal conforming to the nonsensical premise offered. That you raise such an argument is not surprising, but that you'll somehow treat the matter of Palestinian nationhood as being of a higher or not-disputed order is either based on ignorance or an intention to mislead.

[Morch]

59 minutes ago, polpott said:

The Saudi royal family swear allegiance to the Wahhabi. Always have, still do. Progenitors of 9/11. They swear to the destruction of Israel not subservience to it.

 

Like the UAE, Saudi Arabia maintains unofficial relations with Israel, for quite some time now. While there are obviously factions within Saudi Arabia bent on Israel's destruction, and certainly such sentiments are sometimes used for political purposes, I hardly think it can be said it's a major interest of the Kingdom, or one which they've been overly active trying to achieve. Unless you missed it, Saudi Arabia is the actually the main sponsor of the Arab Peace Initiative mentioned in the OP.

[Morch]

The old king is simply not into rocking the boat, not into following MBS's whims and plans, which are in turn influenced by MBZ's machinations. It wasn't really expected KSA would immediatly follow suit or that change its tune. No surprises there.

 

On the other hand - air space remains open for Israeli commercial traffic, no negative impact or threats of such vs. the UAE, nor much by way of condemnation and warning for other countries who may consider the normalization of relations with Israel.

 

I think this was about putting MBS back in his place, cutting him to size some - but also a way of taking KSA off the hook, while not aggressively rejecting recent developments.

[chilly07]

Bravo the Saudi's The more that stand up to Trump and his land grabbing friends the better. Now about those in country human rights violations!

[puipuitom]

23 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Bravo the Saudi's The more that stand up to Trump and his land grabbing friends the better. Now about those in country human rights violations!

Just read the history of the 20th century of what we now call Saudi-Arabia: one big conquest and land grabbing for the Wahabites to get in control of the entire peninsula. Even the Hashemites were thrown out of Mekka and Medina. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

[Thorgal]

5 hours ago, polpott said:

Kushner and Trump are hailing the deal with the Emirates as "The greatest peace deal ever". Actually its a deal between Israel and a tiny gulf state who are insignificant in the Arab world. The biggest non deal ever. Come back when one of the big hitters such as Iran, Syria or Saudi have signed on to it.

 

It’s part of the Trump election campaign to keep extending capital support from important influencing groups.

[George Aylesham]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

The old lion is on his very last leg of his life's journey, once he's gone, the younger lion Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will have his say and he's no fan of the Palestinians and a very modern thinker...

'a very modern thinker' - apart from murdering and chopping up journalists.

[Tonyt00]

Thats really unfair to Trumpet, he was already heading to Mecca to collect his Nobel prize

[ballpoint]

Boy, trump will be smoking some Salman on Twitter when he hears about this.

[Mavideol]

the king  father has bigger balls then the son MBS, time for Trump to put the tale between his legs and stop the back door /under the table dealings with Netanyahu

[Orton Rd]

Palestinians could have had a huge state called Palestine before WW2, and after offered by the UN, they did not want to accept as they could not bring themselves to recognize Israel. Their hatred will continue to turn down any offers, they must love playing the victim.

[pacovl46]

Seems only fair!