First day on “big” bike- Honda CB500X 2017 – Thoughts/Concerns

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

I guess all these guys are just crazy lol.  

 

Looks like a diciplined group in a diciplined part of world when it comes to traffic and road quality. 

 

Not comperable. 

 

Not crazy, just nerds

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

I guess all these guys are just crazy lol.  

 

 

I see quiet empty countryside roads...  fine for a scooter or a bicycle. 

 

What I don’t see are works Vans, Trucks, Lorries forcing a scooter which is maxed out on to the shoulder which has debris, rocks, sand and grit.... 

 

IF riding on the highway (not in town or quiet country roads) then a motorcycle which can accelerate from 120kmh to 140kmh with ease to better place the rider in a less aggressive pocket of traffic makes riding much safer. 

 

Someone could argue that pulling over and rejoining the road also achieves the same goal, but do you really want to be accelerating into traffic on something underpowered?

 

 

Larger Motorcycles with a comfortable cruising speed of 120-140kmh are far safer in moving highway traffic, but are not so comfortable in slow moving or stationary city traffic, they also commonly get too hot and parking may not be as convenient as simply ‘abandoning’ a scooter anywhere !

 

100-150cc scooters are perfect for threading city traffic and small trips, and while riding on a highway is possible, the rider is invariably going to be stuck on the shoulder and forced to dodge motorcycles going in the wrong direct, poor road surface, risk of cars pulling out etc - its not a comfortable experience. 

 

300cc Maxi-Scooters are a decent compromise for both options, but lets not pretend they are designed to eat up highway miles, they’ll struggle to maintain 120kph and accelerate into gaps to ’step out of a risk zone’ 

They are also a little too ‘boat like’ to split traffic in the same manner of a smaller motorcycle. 

 

 

Just my thoughts and people will argue - but I think the above sums up the differences fairly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Agusts]

I had a Suzuki scooter 125cc, from Phuket went all over the place with it, to Krabi and Koh Lanta, and also all the way to Koh Samui... 

 

For sure it is doable, but I'm much more comfortable AND safer on Forza. It is also true that sometimes I wish I had a bit more power for over 120kph, but as I mentioned before it is rare, majority of the time, it's fine...

 

As always it is all a compromise, a few months ago I was dead set to upgrade to 500 or 650, but now I think I just stay with my old Forza, see what comes in next year, they are introducing Forza 350, and maybe <deleted> Yamaha bring it's Xmax 400 here...! 

 

For me the pros and cons lined up next to each other for Forza and CB500X resulted in this compromise, everybody should do the same and decide with his own preference and priority...

 

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, Agusts said:

I had a Suzuki scooter 125cc, from Phuket went all over the place with it, to Krabi and Koh Lanta, and also all the way to Koh Samui... 

 

For sure it is doable, but I'm much more comfortable AND safer on Forza. It is also true that sometimes I wish I had a bit more power for over 120kph, but as I mentioned before it is rare, majority of the time, it's fine...

 

As always it is all a compromise, a few months ago I was dead set to upgrade to 500 or 650, but now I think I just stay with my old Forza, see what comes in next year, they are introducing Forza 350, and maybe <deleted> Yamaha bring it's Xmax 400 here...! 

 

For me the pros and cons lined up next to each other for Forza and CB500X resulted in this compromise, everybody should do the same and decide with his own preference and priority...

 

It is also a big difference driving with a diciplined group, than driving alone. 

[watso63]

Thailand's a great country to explore on a bike but 500cc is a bit puny for comfortable distance riding especially if you venture into the hills.

[properperson]

 

ive trawled through 90 odd messages and i have to say i'm confused ! (and ive been riding for 45y and owned 50 odd bikes and ridden many many more) ....

 

The truth is that each motorcyclist has their own opinion of what's good, what's bad and what suits them, and that's no guarantee that it will suit you - very often finding the perfect bike will involve a lot of "trial and error" - And even when you find that perfect ride, and fettle it like there's no tomorrow, there is always the tempation to sell it and go for something "better"... lol......

 

Right from the start of biking, there seems pressure to have a bigger and more powerful bike, on the basis that "bigger is better" -  but whilst a large bike may be faster in a straight line, they wont be as "flickable" round the back road twisties (and through traffic) as a smaller one .....

 

Then there is the "vanilla" bike syndrome - There is nothing wrong with a Vanilla bike - but a Ben and Jerry's chocko mint chip (with strawberry sauce), is a whole heap better ....

 

Riding in Thailand (compared to the uk where i am from) is tricky to say the least - other road users can drive without any care for other road users, the roads can have unseen pot holes, sand / gravel on the road surface, animals running out in front of you etc etc...

 

So which bike should the OP go for ?

 

Dunno - bit like saying, which part of Thailand is the best to settle down in .....

 

Obviously budget will be an important factor .......

 

A good start is to have a scooter as a base vehicle - auto scooters a much better for wizzing round town than any geared bike ....

 

So after the scooter - what main bike to go for ?

 

Mmmmmmm ....Well you are obviously not an experienced motorcyclist, so i'd suggest a smaller size bike to start .....

 

The Honda 500X was mentioned - Vanilla bike, but you could do a lot worse..... The 500F version is lighter and a bit more flickable though ...

 

I'd definately buy second hand (preferably buying from the guy that rode it out of the showroom, with full dealer history) - then after a while if you want out, you won't be looking at eye watering depreciation ......

 

Hope my ten penny worth helps, and good luck with your choice.....

.

Pics below of my current "Ben and Jerry's" rides:

.

 

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, properperson said:

 

ive trawled through 90 odd messages and i have to say i'm confused ! (and ive been riding for 45y and owned 50 odd bikes and ridden many many more) ...

 

The truth is that each motorcyclist has their own opinion of what's good, what's bad and what suits them, and that's no guarantee that it will suit you - very often finding the perfect bike will involve a lot of "trial and error" - And even when you find that perfect ride, and fettle it like there's no tomorrow, there is always the tempation to sell it and go for something "better"... lol......

 

Right from the start of biking, there seems pressure to have a bigger and more powerful bike, on the basis that "bigger is better" -  but whilst a large bike may be faster in a straight line, they wont be as "flickable" round the back road twisties (and through traffic) as a smaller one .....

 

 

So far every new bike I had was a better choiche than before, so not so hard to find a new decent bike that suits you. 

 

Both 500X and 1000 Versys have been great bikes, but for the 500 with a pillion riding in bigger groups, I missed some more power. Our big groups travelling 120 - 130 km/h, and when bypassing traffic and you find yourselves as number 5 or up, you do not have much power left to keep up. Then more relaxed with some more tourque as well. 

 

I do not see the alot of trial and error with new bikes, as once you find your seating style, there is heaps you can choose, and to me more important, is service possibillities and its functional and reliable. 

 

I also continue to hear smaller bikes is better on twisties and the back roads, but so far trust me after 10 min showing off they can do beter, they useally back off and tired of proving their bike is so much beter. Wonder why ????

 

the op is tall, maybe wants a pillon coming with him in the future, so all his worries about weight and balance is just todays worries. And he also said he wants to school himselves, so better go at right size at once he put the money down. A 650 will keep him busy no matter what machine he choose for awhile, or maybe longer. Honda ADV is also a great bike for beginners, and I think  thats the bike that suits short legs as well long legs? Someone ? NC 750 is good touring bikes as well. 

[Scaliwags66]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:52 AM, taninthai said:

How long that take you on the scoot?

I took my time with it. I started in Rawai then stayed the night in Khao Lak, Ranong, Chumphon, Prachuap Khiri Kan, Hua Hin and then arrived in Bangkok. 

 

So in all about 10 days because I stayed 4 night in Hua Hin, but was driving towards to BKK for 6 of them. Typically do around 150km a day. No rush at all as I like to explore around a bit and do some photography/video with drone. 

[taninthai]

1 hour ago, Scaliwags66 said:

I took my time with it. I started in Rawai then stayed the night in Khao Lak, Ranong, Chumphon, Prachuap Khiri Kan, Hua Hin and then arrived in Bangkok. 

 

So in all about 10 days because I stayed 4 night in Hua Hin, but was driving towards to BKK for 6 of them. Typically do around 150km a day. No rush at all as I like to explore around a bit and do some photography/video with drone. 

Ok that is covering very very small distances at a time,fair enough though if you like to stop everywhere????

[tlandtday]

On 9/9/2020 at 12:24 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I see quiet empty countryside roads...  fine for a scooter or a bicycle. 

 

What I don’t see are works Vans, Trucks, Lorries forcing a scooter which is maxed out on to the shoulder which has debris, rocks, sand and grit.... 

 

IF riding on the highway (not in town or quiet country roads) then a motorcycle which can accelerate from 120kmh to 140kmh with ease to better place the rider in a less aggressive pocket of traffic makes riding much safer. 

 

Someone could argue that pulling over and rejoining the road also achieves the same goal, but do you really want to be accelerating into traffic on something underpowered?

 

 

Larger Motorcycles with a comfortable cruising speed of 120-140kmh are far safer in moving highway traffic, but are not so comfortable in slow moving or stationary city traffic, they also commonly get too hot and parking may not be as convenient as simply ‘abandoning’ a scooter anywhere !

 

100-150cc scooters are perfect for threading city traffic and small trips, and while riding on a highway is possible, the rider is invariably going to be stuck on the shoulder and forced to dodge motorcycles going in the wrong direct, poor road surface, risk of cars pulling out etc - its not a comfortable experience. 

 

300cc Maxi-Scooters are a decent compromise for both options, but lets not pretend they are designed to eat up highway miles, they’ll struggle to maintain 120kph and accelerate into gaps to ’step out of a risk zone’ 

They are also a little too ‘boat like’ to split traffic in the same manner of a smaller motorcycle. 

 

 

Just my thoughts and people will argue - but I think the above sums up the differences fairly.

 

 

 

 

 

So your solution is to accelerate past 120 km an hour in heavy traffic so what happens when a dog or cart unexpectedly enters your lane.  Are you really saying that 120-140 is safe on Thai highways.  I have also ridden many parts of Thailand on a 125cc and never travelled on the shoulder and I was doing far more passing than getting passed.  

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

So your solution is to accelerate past 120 km an hour in heavy traffic so what happens when a dog or cart unexpectedly enters your lane.  Are you really saying that 120-140 is safe on Thai highways.  I have also ridden many parts of Thailand on a 125cc and never travelled on the shoulder and I was doing far more passing than getting passed.  

 

Yes, thats exactly what I’m saying. I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

 

And yes, there are highways in Thailand where 120-140 is a safe speed when equalling the speed of the other road users. 

 

Because, if I’m in the middle of traffic, behind lorries etc I’ll never see the hazard and if I leave too much gap another HGV, truck or car will take it, I will never have a chance to avoid trouble - thus its better that I can get out of that pocket of traffic, into a better immediate riding environment so I can see more of the road and if something does happen, I’m not stuck in the middle of lorries. 

 

There are two ways of doing that: Slowing down and letting the other traffic overtake you until you are in a pocket of quieter traffic. Or turning your right hand a little and squeezing up the speed and riding out of the ‘risk pocket’.

I’d rather be the one passing the lorries than the one the lorries are passing because I can see far more in front of me than behind. 

 

 

But... I’m sure you are safer on your 125cc bike...  and I’m sure you were passing all those cars doing 120kmh !!!!! 

 

 

You won’t get it until you ride a larger bike and see how more readily you can ride out of risk.

Of course there is also an element of ‘riding into risk’...   but a larger bike gives you more options., its also far more comfortable.

 

A 125cc bike may be fun, but its never going safer on the highway than a more capable bike. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tlandtday]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yes, thats exactly what I’m saying. I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.

 

And yes, there are highways in Thailand where 120-140 is a safe speed when equalling the speed of the other road users. 

 

Because, if I’m in the middle of traffic, behind lorries etc I’ll never see the hazard and if I leave too much gap another HGV, truck or car will take it, I will never have a chance to avoid trouble - thus its better that I can get out of that pocket of traffic, into a better immediate riding environment so I can see more of the road and if something does happen, I’m not stuck in the middle of lorries. 

 

There are two ways of doing that: Slowing down and letting the other traffic overtake you until you are in a pocket of quieter traffic. Or turning your right hand a little and squeezing up the speed and riding out of the ‘risk pocket’.

I’d rather be the one passing the lorries than the one the lorries are passing because I can see far more in front of me than behind. 

 

 

But... I’m sure you are safer on your 125cc bike...  and I’m sure you were passing all those cars doing 120kmh !!!!! 

 

 

You won’t get it until you ride a larger bike and see how more readily you can ride out of risk.

Of course there is also an element of ‘riding into risk’...   but a larger bike gives you more options., its also far more comfortable.

 

A 125cc bike may be fun, but its never going safer on the highway than a more capable bike. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As previously mentioned I rode a 1500.  Please outline all these roads in Thailand where the normal flow of traffic is above 120 kmh. Outside of a few tolls which do not allow motorcycles.  Just because a handful of drivers to 120 plus doesn't equate to a constant flow of traffic at that speed.  Thai traffic moves at about 90-100 and lower and keep in mind most motorcycles speedos are out by about 10 percent.

 

Best advice to give a newbie rider is maintain flow with the traffic and drive cautiously and always scanning and not going full bore and passing vehicles right and left that is a recipe for disaster.

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

As previously mentioned I rode a 1500.  Please outline all these roads in Thailand where the normal flow of traffic is above 120 kmh. Outside of a few tolls which do not allow motorcycles.  Just because a handful of drivers to 120 plus doesn't equate to a constant flow of traffic at that speed.  Thai traffic moves at about 90-100 and lower and keep in mind most motorcycles speedos are out by about 10 percent.

Plenty...  

Bangkok to Hua Hin (Hwy 35 & 4) 

Chiang Mai to Bangok (Hwy 11 & 1) 

Bangkok to Korat (Hwy 2) 

 

And many more I’ve driven and ridden.

 

 

I know you like to push the context so I have to highlight not the complete route are fast. Each of them have areas where driving / riding fast is safe and then other areas which require greater caution. But, much of those routes involve flowing traffic all which comfortably flows at 120km.

 

 

10 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

Best advice to give a newbie rider is maintain flow with the traffic and drive cautiously and always scanning and not going full bore and passing vehicles right and left that is a recipe for disaster.

Absolutely agree - keep with the speed of the traffic - no one is discussing going ‘full bore’ (another hyperbolae) and blowing past traffic.

No rider (or car driver) should place themselves in a situation where they are the rider / driver slowing down other vehicles behind you and forcing them to overtake you.

 

 

You have still missed the point: Having some additional power to accelerate out of a risk zone, rather than having no other choice than to slow out of it, is a far safer situation to be in - its safer to have that capability in your back pocket. 

 

-----

 

I’m expecting you will argue with the speeds and the roads etc...  but thats just you experience of riding here. My experience of riding and driving here is noted above and not exaggerated. 

 

 

Note: I’m going off my speedometer as I don’t carry around a certified speed camera. 

I imagine motorcycles and cars have similar ‘calibration error margins’.