Brexit back in crisis as UK threatens to undercut divorce pact

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The facts are there...the govt has admitted it is breaking the law and the head of its legal department has quit.

What law and why does Boris now think he needs to do so? 
You are Irish aren't you, shouldn't you be able to explain the cause of this? Would it have any other implications for Ireland?

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Something and nothing...when the head of your legal department quits because of what you are doing, that is a very real something...

He's just another Remainer throwing a hissy fit. No big loss.

[izod10]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The facts are there...the govt has admitted it is breaking the law and the head of its legal department has quit.

I mean  so what?   New rules set,easily manageable,only a couple more weeks for the proof,then that is it   goodbye   No overflying UK airspace either..St Malo the new capital of eire

[Bluespunk]

15 minutes ago, Loiner said:

What law and why does Boris now think he needs to do so? 
You are Irish aren't you, shouldn't you be able to explain the cause of this? Would it have any other implications for Ireland?

The uk has admitted it is breaking international law, the head of it's legal department has quit, what more proof do you need that international law is being broken.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, izod10 said:

I mean  so what?   New rules set,easily manageable,only a couple more weeks for the proof,then that is it   goodbye   No overflying UK airspace either..St Malo the new capital of eire

Keep telling yourself that this resignation doesn't matter if it makes you. feel better but it won't make it true.

[izod10]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Keep telling yourself that this resignation doesn't matter if it makes you. feel better but it won't make it true.

True,or whatever? it does make me feel better,Boris is laying his version of the "law" to the EU  

  Eire is going to make one massive advantage to the UK,the EU know this,that is why the EU never wanted Eire as a member

[david555]

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0177/20177.pdf

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, izod10 said:

True,or whatever? it does make me feel better,Boris is laying his version of the "law" to the EU  

  Eire is going to make one massive advantage to the UK,the EU know this,that is why the EU never wanted Eire as a member

Yeah, except what johnson is doing breeches international law and shows how untrustworthy the uk govt is, you may not care but that doesn't make a jot of difference.

 

This is a major **** ** and one that will have consequences going forward unless johnson performs another of his u turns...

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk
too many majors

[bannork]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

Nearly all. Had an election last year. The Blonde Bimbo won by a landslide.

The Bimbo won the election on the grounds the Withdrawal Agreement was an oven ready deal, easy peasy pie,  Brexit done, every Tory MP had to sign they agreed with the WA. After all the kerfuffle of the last few years an exhausted public gave him the benefit of doubt. Now the bimbo says the agreement he signed and rushed through Parliament in three days to prevent scrutiny is craap.

What a sad joke he is, and the fools who believe in him.

 

 

[Loiner]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The uk has admitted it is breaking international law, the head of it's legal department has quit, what more proof do you need that international law is being broken.

But you won't tell me what law. And you won't tell me why. This is very germane to the whole issue, but none of the EU or Remainers or Ireland wants to admit any of the details.

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

But you won't tell me what law. And you won't tell me why. This is very germane to the whole issue, but none of the EU or Remainers or Ireland wants to admit any of the details.

Just watch the video from channel four news...I posted it twice for you.

 

Here's another article

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/08/uk/uk-brexit-legislation-international-law-intl/index.html

 

Here's what the minister said 

 

"Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, conceded that the move to bring in new laws to avoid a hard border in Ireland breached the treaty the prime minister signed with the EU this year."

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brandon-lewis-admits-brexit-deal-changes-break-international-law-3mq6fv0gl

 

And there's this clue contained in the article below

 

"Under the UK's withdrawal agreement, Northern Ireland is due to stay part of the EU's single market for goods in a bid to avoid creating a hard border with the Irish Republic."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54081211

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Scott]

Troll post and reply reported and removed. 

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Just watch the video from channel four news...I posted it twice for you.

 

Here's another article

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/08/uk/uk-brexit-legislation-international-law-intl/index.html

 

Here's what the minister said 

 

"Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, conceded that the move to bring in new laws to avoid a hard border in Ireland breached the treaty the prime minister signed with the EU this year."

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brandon-lewis-admits-brexit-deal-changes-break-international-law-3mq6fv0gl

 

And there's this clue contained in the article below

 

"Under the UK's withdrawal agreement, Northern Ireland is due to stay part of the EU's single market for goods in a bid to avoid creating a hard border with the Irish Republic."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54081211

 

So where have you omitted the EU’s threat to block GB foodstuffs into a part of the UK? Is that also part of an Ireland and Republican plot?

Not negotiating in good faith. Boris should send them all packing now. No Deal it will be. 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So where have you omitted the EU’s threat to block GB foodstuffs into a part of the UK? Is that also part of an Ireland and Republican plot?

Not negotiating in good faith. Boris should send them all packing now. No Deal it will be. 

Ah the irony...

 

You can have no deal all you want, just keep to the agreements you signed under international law. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Scott]

A post with an inflammatory reference to a politician has been reported and removed.  

 

[Loiner]

44 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah the irony...

 

You can have no deal all you want, just keep to the agreements you signed under international law. 

Well if the EU (and probably Ireland somehow) wants to twist the WA conditions, Boris is justified in not keeping to it. 

You’re being too tricky by half and helping the No Deal exit to boot. Well that’s Irish logic for you - same as Thai logic. At least we’ll get out No Deal and impose our own rules for UK movements. Keep it up. 

[Loiner]

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Bzzzzzzt deflection.

Is what the UK government doing illegal or not?

None of the Remainers or Euros here can identify what is the actual illegal bit. Plenty of links to accusations which also can never explicitly show the alleged illegality. 

[polpott]

OK so no one seems to understand the dispute.

 

The withdrawal agreement was signed by both sides making it subject to international law. If either side subsequently breaches the agreement they will be in breach of international law.

 

The dispute of the NI border resolution raged throughout the negotiations and was doubt the main sticking point of the agreement. Finally the UK government came up with a complex plan to afford trade between NI, the rest of the UK, and the Irish Republic. After a few more minor tweeks all sides agreed and the agreement was signed and was now subject to international law. 

 

Dominic Cummings has now come up with a cunning plan to further advantage the UK in cross border trade. Ministers say the legislation is needed to prevent "damaging" tariffs on goods travelling from the rest of the UK to Northern Ireland if negotiations with the EU on a free trade agreement fail.

 

The plan is:

 

1. No new checks on goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of Great Britain

 

2. Giving UK ministers powers to modify or "disapply" rules relating to the movement of goods that will come into force from 1 January if the UK and EU are unable to reach an alternative agreement through a trade deal

 

3. Powers to override previously agreed obligations on state aid - government support for businesses

 

Tellingly, the bill explicitly states that these powers should apply even if they are incompatible with international law.

 

So it appears that the government are fully aware that it breaches international law and appear to be resigned to abandoning all thoughts on agreeing a trade deal with the EU.

 

Hopefully this clarifies the matter for both sides.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by polpott

[welovesundaysatspace]

40 minutes ago, Loiner said:

None of the Remainers or Euros here can identify what is the actual illegal bit. Plenty of links to accusations which also can never explicitly show the alleged illegality. 

Article 26 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

 

But who cares. Everyone knows you’d be breaching international laws; everyone knows you’d be breaching an international treaty. Your government openly admits it. Your justifications and downplaying just underline and prove to everyone that you cannot be trusted. That’s worth much more. 
 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[RayC]

42 minutes ago, Loiner said:

None of the Remainers or Euros here can identify what is the actual illegal bit. Plenty of links to accusations which also can never explicitly show the alleged illegality. 

The fact that a government minister admitted to parliament that the draft legislation breaks international law would be proof enough for most people. However, here's a(nother) link that explains things. If you can't be bothered to read and understand the contents that's your problem

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-changes-will-override-parts-of-withdrawal-agreement-12067355

Edited September 9, 2020 by RayC
Missing words

[Loiner]

Remainer spin has it all Dominic Cummings fault?

i think not. 

[Loiner]

Just now, RayC said:

The fact that a government minister admitted that to the draft legislation breaks international law should be proof enough. However, here's a(bother) link that explains things. If you can't be bothered to read and understand the contents that's your problem

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-changes-will-override-parts-of-withdrawal-agreement-12067355

Another one who doesn’t really know, so will give some antibrexit media link         

 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

The fact that a government minister admitted that to the draft legislation breaks international law should be proof enough.

Its actually written into the bill that it should still apply even though it breaks international law.

[Loiner]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Article 26 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

 

But who cares. Everyone knows you’d be breaching international laws; everyone knows you’d be breaching an international treaty. Your justifications and downplaying just underline and prove to everyone that you cannot be trusted. That’s worth much more. 

Down playing what part? Enough of the hysterics. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Down playing what part? Enough of the hysterics. 

Downplaying breaching agreements and international law. 

[Bluespunk]

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Well if the EU (and probably Ireland somehow) wants to twist the WA conditions, Boris is justified in not keeping to it. 

You’re being too tricky by half and helping the No Deal exit to boot. Well that’s Irish logic for you - same as Thai logic. At least we’ll get out No Deal and impose our own rules for UK movements. Keep it up. 

the only ones twisting are johnson and his merry band of no dealers. 
 

Gone too far this time though...not good when the head of your legal dept resigns

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk
Grammar

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Another one who doesn’t really know, so will give some antibrexit media link         

 

Here is Brandon Lewis' quote - a government minister remember - on the subject: "Yes this (bill) does break international law in a very specific and limited way."

 

I guess that he doesn't know either and is part of the anti-Brexit conspiracy?

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

None of the Remainers or Euros here can identify what is the actual illegal bit. Plenty of links to accusations which also can never explicitly show the alleged illegality. 

Does this explanation from a Professor of Public Law at Cambridge satisfy your thirst for enlightenment? 

 

The Internal Market Bill - A Perfect Constitutional Storm

 

"... there can be no doubt that the Bill, if enacted, would flagrantly breach the UK’s obligations under international law. It does so in two principal ways, each of which is buttressed by two sticks of constitutional dynamite buried in a clause towards the end of the legislation.

 

"It is therefore crystal clear that clause 42... would be a clear breach of the international law obligations into which the Government entered when it negotiated the Withdrawal Agreement less than a year ago.

 

"As with clause 42, there can be no doubt whatever that clause 43, if enacted, would authorise the Government to breach the UK’s international obligations under the Protocol." 

[Scott]

A post with a social media source removed along with replies.

 

 

[candide]

27 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Does this explanation from a Professor of Public Law at Cambridge satisfy your thirst for enlightenment? 

 

The Internal Market Bill - A Perfect Constitutional Storm

 

"... there can be no doubt that the Bill, if enacted, would flagrantly breach the UK’s obligations under international law. It does so in two principal ways, each of which is buttressed by two sticks of constitutional dynamite buried in a clause towards the end of the legislation.

 

"It is therefore crystal clear that clause 42... would be a clear breach of the international law obligations into which the Government entered when it negotiated the Withdrawal Agreement less than a year ago.

 

"As with clause 42, there can be no doubt whatever that clause 43, if enacted, would authorise the Government to breach the UK’s international obligations under the Protocol." 

And a good start for a country expecting to strike multiple deals! Surely the best way to convince future partners to trust UK! ????

Edited September 9, 2020 by candide