Brexit back in crisis as UK threatens to undercut divorce pact

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

if it was easy, they would have solved it already, not been debating it for many years. 

Do you do it on purpose ?
Have you read my question?

If posters don't want to answer, fair enough, but don't post then irrelevant answers.

One make the effort to answer, and gave his opinion why, again thanks for that. 

[transam]

14 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I like to know what is winding up other people into a frenzy, that they can do nothing about.  It's called entertainment, which is what TVF is all about isn't it? 

It read like you were getting wound up...........????

Try again..........????

PS. No not you Bluespunk.....Calm down...????

Edited September 8, 2020 by transam

[crobe]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Do the UK waters belong to the UK or not......Yes or No...?

yes they do, because the UK tried to pillage the Icelandic waters in the 1970s and then an international standard of the 200 mile economic exclusion zone was established.

But the common fisheries policy not only regulated the fishing waters but also the markets and the environmental conditions. I am against the common fisheries policy due to the lack of environmental safeguards and overfishing particularly by Spanish and other trawlers. 

The problem is that the majority of fish caught in UK waters are sold in EU markets, so do the EU own their markets yes or no, obviously yes, so in the longer term the UK may have to find other markets for their catch and also try to prevent other nations (Russia, China etc.) trawler fleets from operating

[transam]

5 minutes ago, crobe said:

yes they do, because the UK tried to pillage the Icelandic waters in the 1970s and then an international standard of the 200 mile economic exclusion zone was established.

But the common fisheries policy not only regulated the fishing waters but also the markets and the environmental conditions. I am against the common fisheries policy due to the lack of environmental safeguards and overfishing particularly by Spanish and other trawlers. 

The problem is that the majority of fish caught in UK waters are sold in EU markets, so do the EU own their markets yes or no, obviously yes, so in the longer term the UK may have to find other markets for their catch and also try to prevent other nations (Russia, China etc.) trawler fleets from operating

Do the UK waters belong to the UK or not....Easy .....????

PS. But not for Bluespunk, it seems.....????

Edited September 8, 2020 by transam

[crobe]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Do the UK waters belong to the UK or not......Yes or No...?

Of course it may be a moot question - if by 2024 both Scotland and Northern Ireland have left the UK then the English/Welsh waters will be minimal

[crobe]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Do the UK waters belong to the UK or not....Easy .....????

Asked and answered

[transam]

2 minutes ago, crobe said:

Of course it may be a moot question - if by 2024 both Scotland and Northern Ireland have left the UK then the English/Welsh waters will be minimal

Then at this moment the EU has no right to demand anything from the UK space, nothing.

[crobe]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Then at this moment the EU has no right to demand anything from the UK space, nothing.

They have no right to demand anything, but also the Uk has no "right to demand" access to the EU markets - it is a negotiation after all.

[Chomper Higgot]

51 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You think the EU will block us from their markets if there is no trade deal? Oh dear... ????

 

Trade will continue. Sure there will be some tariffs (on both sides), just as there is on the bulk of trade around the world that is done on WTO terms.

 

If the Germans want the UK government to collect thousands of pounds every time they sell a car in the UK, be our guests. See how that affects their sales when British consumers start buying more competitively priced cars from countries that understand the benefits of a fair FTA. 

 

 

That bit about ‘some tariffs’, who do you think gets to pay them?

 

 

[Proboscis]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Someone's learned a new expression, haven't they. That's about the third time today you've said Perfidious Albion. Did you google it after seeing it trending on Twitter?

 

Anyway, if the EU are not going to abide by the terms of the treaty I see no reason why the UK should. The EU has consistently undermined UK sovereignty by demanding a level playing field in which they decide UK laws and regulations, as well as ECJ jurisdiction and free access to fishing waters in return for the trade deal. They have also not acted in good faith by demanding terms for a trade deal that they have never requested before and would never dream of accepting themselves.

 

Respecting UK sovereignty and acting in good faith were both terms of the agreement. So if the EU wishes to ignore certain parts of it, the UK will also. The EU can cry and squeal as much as they like. If the EU didn't want to fight dirty, they shouldn't have taken their gloves off. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

 

Hopefully the UK will stop the remaining payments of the 30 Billion remaining from the divorce deal as well, until a fair, mutually beneficial trade deal that respects UK sovereignty is agreed. 

I have never read such a load of misguided nonsense. Your talk about sovereignity is totally misconstrued. There never was a trade deal of substance that did not involve some handing over of a little sovereignity. For instance, in the case of product standards, under a trade deal another country trading with your country is likely to insist on certain standards in the manufacture of products that are destined for export to their country. In that sense, there is now a limitation on your sovereignity which most countries are happy to give up because it means more exports. If you insist on total sovereignity, you will never trade with any country ever.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, crobe said:

They have no right to demand anything, but also the Uk has no "right to demand" access to the EU markets - it is a negotiation after all.

So the EU doesn't want access to UK markets....?

Again, UK waters belong to the UK, so does anything in or on it.....????

[nauseus]

40 minutes ago, crobe said:

The EU has been much better at presenting a united front on negotiations than the UK, so of course it appears that they are more interested in a deal, whereas in the UK there is a lot of noise from people who would prefer no-deal (and no negotiations) anyway.

 

There will be no reconciling of the two partisan sides anyway, but as Boris took credit for negotiating the withdrawal agreement when Theresa May could not, he also has to "own" the no-deal if that is the outcome

 

 

The EU is interested in a deal - all on its own terms, of course.

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Which facts did I misrepresent? Has the EU not been asking for full access to UK fish/waters, a level playing field (in which the EU make the rules) and ECJ jurisdiction?

 

Yes, they ask this. And they are allowed to ask this, and much more.

 

But this doesn't give the UK the right to violate treaties.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Then at this moment the EU has no right to demand anything from the UK space, nothing.

Apart from the fact that fishing rights within UK waters are owned as ‘property’ under UK law and the owners of those rights are, to a large extent, foreigners who bought the rights and cans do with them as they please.

 

Of course Brexiteers currently supporting the UK reneging on international treaties might wish to argue the UK should ignore its own property laws.

[welovesundaysatspace]

56 minutes ago, vogie said:

And of course when we leave with a 'no deal' it will be the fault of Boris and nothing what-so-ever to do with the EU, the bond some remainers have with the EU is quite touching really.

Blaming the other team just means admitting defeat ???? ????  

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Apart from the fact that fishing rights within UK waters are owned as ‘property’ under UK law and the owners of those rights are, to a large extent, foreigners who bought the rights and cans do with them as they please.

 

Of course Brexiteers currently supporting the UK reneging on international treaties might wish to argue the UK should ignore its own property laws.

Business is business, the UK waters belong to the UK, not the EU. ............????

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Blaming the other team just means admitting defeat ???? ????  

We are more than a match for your 27 players as is being proven by the remainer melt down today, 'it's just not fair, my life has been spoilt by those "perfiderous" Brexiteers' ????????????

[transam]

10 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Yes, they ask this. And they are allowed to ask this, and much more.

 

But this doesn't give the UK the right to violate treaties.

 

 

 

Germany did.......You forgot...?

[transam]

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Blaming the other team just means admitting defeat ???? ????  

We accept your capitulation.....????

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Business is business, the UK waters belong to the UK, not the EU. ............????

And the fishing rights belong to whoever bought them.

[welovesundaysatspace]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

We accept your capitulation.....????

You need to work on you reading comprehension skills: it was your Brexiteer friend who blamed the EU, thereby showing once again that it’s the EU who has the upper hand ???? ???? 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the fishing rights belong to whoever bought them.

And the waters still belong to the UK.....Yes/No...?

What happens regarding buying and selling rights in business is totally different, it is NOT taking away sovereign land or waters...????

[transam]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You need to work on you reading comprehension skills: it was your Brexiteer friend who blamed the EU, thereby showing once again that it’s the EU who has the upper hand ???? ???? 

Do you know what "your" means in my reply to you....????

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Do you know what "your" means in my reply to you....????

It means that you weren’t able to read and understand the conversation you were replying to ???? 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

And the waters still belong to the UK.....Yes/No...?

What happens regarding buying and selling rights in business is totally different, it is NOT taking away sovereign land or waters...????

So no change at all from the current situation.

 

The UK keeps the water and the foreigners who own the fishing rights keep the fish.

 

 

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You need to work on you reading comprehension skills: it was your Brexiteer friend who blamed the EU, thereby showing once again that it’s the EU who has the upper hand ???? ???? 

If your definition of the EU having the upper hand is coming out of negotiations with nothing and not getting any divorce alimony, it is no wonder Mr Barnier is so useless at making deals.

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So no change at all from the current situation.

 

The UK keeps the water and the foreigners who own the fishing rights keep the fish.

 

 

Oh dear, oh dear....What do you not understand that the UK wants control of its land and waters, what happens via business is another issue. 

 

You are becoming very tiresome with your continual "non" understanding of what Brexit is about. Of course your "non" understanding is probably intensional, that's OK, gives us something to do here, eh......????

[welovesundaysatspace]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

If your definition of the EU having the upper hand is coming out of negotiations with nothing

Which is not happening. 
 

Quote

and not getting any divorce alimony,

Which is not happening. 
 

Quote

 

it is no wonder Mr Barnier is so useless at making deals.

He’s doing a great job. Unlike Brexiteers, who keep admitting defeat by looking for someone to blame, we are well on track. 
 

 

 

 
 

Edited September 8, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Which is not happening. 
 

Which is not happening. 
 

He’s doing a great job. Unlike Brexiteers, who keep admitting defeat by looking someone to blame, we are on track. 
 

Boris has outsmarted Barnier and someone on here doesn't like it.????????????

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh dear, oh dear....What do you not understand that the UK wants control of its land and waters, what happens via business is another issue. 

 

You are becoming very tiresome with your continual "non" understanding of what Brexit is about. Of course your "non" understanding is probably intensional, that's OK, gives us something to do here, eh......????

The UK already controls it’s land and waters.

 

Being a member of the EU never changed that.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chomper Higgot