How easy is it to spread Covid with face to face contact?

[AndrewMciver]

I've had far too many encounters this past week with people rite in my face, showing no respect at all for my boundaries during this pandemic. 

 

Whenever i step back, or ask politely to keep some distance, i get that cliched laughter with the complimentary 'stop being scared you stupid horse worshipper' (or something to similar). 

 

My question then is how easy is it to catch Covid from someone who comes rite up to you - less than a meter? I'm not asking about touching surfaces with infection on that you then rub into your eyes, or mouth - i'm just talking specifically face to face contact. 

 

My own research has been conflicated. From the scarily easy - droplets from an infected person can be inhaled, go into your eyes. To now i've read that it would take on average 15 minutes in close proximity face to face catch some droplets (on average) - longer if you were outdoors. This is based on local news coverage of school children being sent home, and only those immediately around them being told to go home. I myself was conflicted by this revelation - which may perhaps be house manure.

 

Any thoughts and feedback ?

[torturedsole]

18 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

Any thoughts and feedback ?

Sure. There's a good chance you've contracted C19 previously and not even noticed or will do shortly but highly unlikely that anything untoward will happen to you either way.

 

I had it back in February and still here. I only wear the mask when out shopping in the UK to avoid all the nut jobs who can't help themselves in policing total enforcement of wearing a mask while shopping. It's easier to comply and avoid the aggravation.  

[AndrewMciver]

Yeah thanks for the comments that have little or nothing to do with the question asked.

 

Anyone else?

[jastheace]

2 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

Yeah thanks for the comments that have little or nothing to do with the question asked.

 

Anyone else?

face to face contact you say.

you mean french kissing. yeah that's fine, i searched and there's nothing wrong with that, just don't sit closer to 2 metres to anyone when doing it. hope that helps.

[sezze]

From my own experience ,meaning the people i know who were infected so far ( must be around 20 ) , they have got it from or family members or are themselves pretty "social" people . So i'd say try to keep your distance at all moments if possible . I'm not at all doing research on the matter , so this all might be <deleted> , but this is what i see around me. I do not keep distance to others at all time but i try to keep my distance bigger then i did before towards others . It isn't 1.5meters but i'd say , better stay at 1m then at 75cm . 

[AndrewMciver]

Just now, jastheace said:

face to face contact you say.

you mean french kissing. yeah that's fine, i searched and there's nothing wrong with that, just don't sit closer to 2 metres to anyone when doing it. hope that helps.

 

No. 

 

I'm talking about someone come up to you and talking to you less than a meter away.

 

 

[torturedsole]

1 minute ago, AndrewMciver said:

No. 

 

I'm talking about someone come up to you and talking to you less than a meter away.

Lock yourself indoors for the next five years. It's the only way to achieve what you're looking for.  

[AndrewMciver]

1 minute ago, torturedsole said:

Lock yourself indoors for the next five years. It's the only way to achieve what you're looking for.  

 

You've made your point. You don't take this seriously. Now can you just leave so i can get some answers and feedback to the question. 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 minute ago, sezze said:

From my own experience ,meaning the people i know who were infected so far ( must be around 20 ) , they have got it from or family members or are themselves pretty "social" people . So i'd say try to keep your distance at all moments if possible . I'm not at all doing research on the matter , so this all might be <deleted> , but this is what i see around me. I do not keep distance to others at all time but i try to keep my distance bigger then i did before towards others . It isn't 1.5meters but i'd say , better stay at 1m then at 75cm . 

You know 20 people who were infected? This is something that baffles me. I know a lot of people, real friends, FB friends, people across multiple countries, and I only know of one person who got Covid. That was the husband of an old friend I haven't seen for 10 years. 

 

I don't doubt your claim of 20 people, but I do find it interesting.  

 

[jastheace]

5 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

No. 

 

I'm talking about someone come up to you and talking to you less than a meter away.

 

 

mask on . ok

no mask and they're a sprayer/talker, risky as <deleted>> i'd say

i know some peeps who unintentionally spray saliva when they talk and i wouldn't want to be their friends at the mo. in fact, i avoid any contact. masks would help, if ..... if worn. 1 metre? the ones i know are contenders for the olympic gold medal in 'say it and spray it ' event.

so fair question @AndrewMciver

[Poet]

It is completely safe to be in close proximity to lots of people not wearing masks as long as you wear a t-shirt with some sort of social justice slogan.

Just don't forget to put on a mask before you start looting.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Poet

[sezze]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You know 20 people who were infected? This is something that baffles me. I know a lot of people, real friends, FB friends, people across multiple countries, and I only know of one person who got Covid. That was the husband of an old friend I haven't seen for 10 years. 

 

I don't doubt your claim of 20 people, but I do find it interesting.  

 

4 family members ( far away family ) died of it , nr5 is closer family and didn't die of covid but because of it ( she was 97 and they kept her locked down , which she had enough of it , she she decided to give up on all of it ) . Another 1 is a friend of my parents who did spend a few days in ICU , and was released after having a few very annoying side effects after , i'm not sure how it is now with him . All the others are from my work , 2 in my team of 13 were confirmed , in other 3 teams i think around 3 are confirmed . From other spots at my very huge company , i've heard from a few who did have C-19 . I think my nr of 20 is about correct .... .

[torturedsole]

4 minutes ago, Poet said:

It is completely safe to be in close proximity to lots of people not wearing masks as long as you wear a t-shirt with some sort of social justice slogan.

Just don't forget to put on a mask before you start looting.

The metal of the long gun seems to provide immunity too.

[torturedsole]

15 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

You don't take this seriously.

Take what seriously? My wife and I have followed lockdown rules to the letter here in the UK since mid-March.  

 

Droplets could be spores for all we know of this so-called virus.  

 

Thais would say you think too much. 

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, sezze said:

4 family members ( far away family ) died of it , nr5 is closer family and didn't die of covid but because of it ( she was 97 and they kept her locked down , which she had enough of it , she she decided to give up on all of it ) . Another 1 is a friend of my parents who did spend a few days in ICU , and was released after having a few very annoying side effects after , i'm not sure how it is now with him . All the others are from my work , 2 in my team of 13 were confirmed , in other 3 teams i think around 3 are confirmed . From other spots at my very huge company , i've heard from a few who did have C-19 . I think my nr of 20 is about correct .... .

Wow, ok. Sorry to hear that 

[torturedsole]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Wow, ok. Sorry to hear that 

For balance, my employer has a large presence in the UK and nothing untoward reported. A few cases but that was it.  

[Don Chance]

Wear a n95 mask. Avoid people who are not wearing a mask, they are Satan.

[torturedsole]

2 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Wear a n95 mask

I have 3 ply, ear loop design, with not to be used as PPE or for medical purposes labelling. If it's not fit for PPE or medical purposes then what use is it?

 

I only wear a mask out shopping to avoid officious shop staff and mask-wearing evangelists that have sprung up in great numbers all of a sudden.  

[Don Chance]

2 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

I have 3 ply, ear loop design, with not to be used as PPE or for medical purposes labelling. If it's not fit for PPE or medical purposes then what use is it?

 

I only wear a mask out shopping to avoid officious shop staff and mask-wearing evangelists that have sprung up in great numbers all of a sudden.  

Any mask will help. It is a sort of vaccine because it will make covid much less severe since you will inhale much less virus particles giving your body longer to fight the virus. I would assume if you are in Thailand the chance of catching covid is very slim, since nobody has it apparently.

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Don Chance said:

Any mask will help. It is a sort of vaccine because it will make covid much less severe since you will inhale much less virus particles giving your body longer to fight the virus. I would assume if you are in Thailand the chance of catching covid is very slim, since nobody has it apparently.

Yes any mask is better then no mask at all . So far it looks like UV radiation kills it pretty quick , so outside events at daytime (sun ) is probably quite safe . Im not saying there aren't any cases in Thailand , but prob due to the high UV , and living outside makes the people who are sick , nearly unnoticed . Summer in Europe was pretty calm for C-19 and now it is flaring up everywhere , and there might be reasons here and there , but imho is that shorter daytime / lower UV also has got something to do with it .

If you look at Tour de France cycling , the mountains were loaded with people at times and yelling and getting very close to the cyclists at times . Yet nobody of the cyclists have got it ... you can all call it coincidence , but i certainly believe that there is a reason .

[treetops]

14 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

To now i've read that it would take on average 15 minutes in close proximity face to face catch some droplets (on average) - longer if you were outdoors.

 

The 15 minutes in proximity thinking may be down to that being the requirements for some of the tracking apps to flag up that tracing is required once a contact has tested positive.

 

Are you in Thailand now as I'd be much less concerned here than in the UK given the spread of the disease, whether or not you believe official figures?

[AndrewMciver]

12 hours ago, sezze said:

Yes any mask is better then no mask at all . So far it looks like UV radiation kills it pretty quick , so outside events at daytime (sun ) is probably quite safe . Im not saying there aren't any cases in Thailand , but prob due to the high UV , and living outside makes the people who are sick , nearly unnoticed . Summer in Europe was pretty calm for C-19 and now it is flaring up everywhere , and there might be reasons here and there , but imho is that shorter daytime / lower UV also has got something to do with it .

If you look at Tour de France cycling , the mountains were loaded with people at times and yelling and getting very close to the cyclists at times . Yet nobody of the cyclists have got it ... you can all call it coincidence , but i certainly believe that there is a reason .

 

UV isn't doing much good in Brazil or India. 

 

So a mask will prevent some of the viral load getting in you, thus reducing the illness - is that rite?

[partington]

17 hours ago, Don Chance said:

Any mask will help. It is a sort of vaccine because it will make covid much less severe since you will inhale much less virus particles giving your body longer to fight the virus. I would assume if you are in Thailand the chance of catching covid is very slim, since nobody has it apparently.

This is not true at all.

 

This is not what "viral load" means - it is nothing to do with how much virus you are exposed to when you catch the disease. This is a misunderstanding that I have seen spreading all over newspapers and social media, and have even heard some GPs say it. A mask helps simply because it blocks access of aerosol droplets that can infect you.

 

Firstly, the amount of virus causing you to catch the disease (the "initial infectious dose") is of the order of a few hundred to a thousand particles, say in an aerosol droplet of saliva.

 

But this is a tiny amount compared to the number that you develop during the course of your infection as the virus replicates to hundreds of thousands, then potentially millions of viruses, using your body cells as a factory. THIS is your "viral load"  - it is a measure of how strongly the disease is progressing after you catch it, and is measured as the number of viruses you have per ml of body fluid, and how much virus you are shedding to the outside world.

 

There is as yet NO evidence that the amount of virus in the initial infectious dose is related to the severity of your disease, and there is even conflicting evidence about whether your viral load ( the numbers of millions of virus the initial infective dose produces after many cycles of replication during your disease progression) is related to the severity of symptoms. Some studies show it is and some that it isn't.

 

New Scientist has an article that explains this. Here are some relevant extracts:

 

"The average number of viral particles needed to establish an infection is known as the infectious dose. We don’t know what this is for covid-19 yet, but given how rapidly the disease is spreading, it is likely to be relatively low – in the region of a few hundred or thousand particles, says Willem van Schaik at the University of Birmingham, UK.

 

Viral load, on the other hand, relates to the number of viral particles being carried by an infected individual and shed into their environment. “The viral load is a measure of how bright the fire is burning in an individual, whereas the infectious dose is the spark that gets that fire going,” says Edward Parker at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

[.....]

“Those with more severe disease had a higher level of virus replication, although we have no evidence to relay the initial exposure dose to disease outcome,” says Leo Poon at Hong Kong University, who was involved in the study. “That rumour is still an open question to me.”

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/#ixzz6YUxnS146

Edited September 19, 2020 by partington

[treetops]

6 minutes ago, partington said:

This is not true at all.

The rest of your post and the quotes from the article indicate more that it's unknown if it's true or not.  Why are you so adamant it's wrong?

[partington]

 

 

In science you don't make a declaration that something is true when you have no evidence. The statement as made is therefore not "true" because it is completely unsupported by any currently known facts.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by partington

[treetops]

1 minute ago, partington said:

In science you don't make a declaration that something is true when you have no evidence.

Then why didn't you present some evidence instead of:

 

24 minutes ago, partington said:

“Those with more severe disease had a higher level of virus replication, although we have no evidence to relay the initial exposure dose to disease outcome,”

and

 

24 minutes ago, partington said:

“That rumour is still an open question to me.”

which indicates you (or the guy quoted) don't know either way?

[Sujo]

Why dont u just follow the science. The science people spent years to study. Wear a mask, anyone close to u step away. If they dont accept it then leave.

[treetops]

16 minutes ago, partington said:

In science you don't make a declaration that something is true when you have no evidence. The statement as made is therefore not "true" because it is completely unsupported by any currently known facts.

Nice edit after my previous quote.

 

In real life you don't make a declaration that something "is not true at all" unless you can prove it's false.  By your own words that can't be proven so there's no need for the attitude displayed to the previous poster.

[geriatrickid]

19 hours ago, torturedsole said:

Sure. There's a good chance you've contracted C19 previously and not even noticed or will do shortly but highly unlikely that anything untoward will happen to you either way.

 

I had it back in February and still here. I only wear the mask when out shopping in the UK to avoid all the nut jobs who can't help themselves in policing total enforcement of wearing a mask while shopping. It's easier to comply and avoid the aggravation.  

You assume that the small cold that was  circulating in February was Covid19. In the absence of the confirming PCR test, you camnot say that you were infected with Covid19. This has already been discussed multiple times.  

[Meat Pie 47]

18 hours ago, Don Chance said:

Wear a n95 mask. Avoid people who are not wearing a mask, they are Satan.

We don't wear masks where I live and we had no local infections for over 3 months