U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg dies at age 87 from pancreatic cancer

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, John Drake said:

If Ginsburg has been on her deathbed, I wonder if she was in any condition to do her work on the bench. If not, who was doing it? Did Ginsburg even have a hand in any of it?

Her body is still warm and you're vomiting conspiracy heories?

 

Shame on you.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Jingthing

[Fat is a type of crazy]

3 minutes ago, Poet said:

You think they will have debates? I would be impressed if they are willing to risk that. His exposure to unscripted moments has been tightly controlled so far. I think part of the problem is that, as even his fans would admit, he does sometimes say some very odds and that runs counter to the "good ol' Joe" narrative that most effectively counters Trump's reputation.

 

Older and slower is fine. Most Americans yearn for some comforting, old-fashioned boredom after the Trump rollercoaster. The problem is when he goes off-script, the crazy stuff runs against that image, but his handlers have done a good job so far in minimizing the opportunities for gaffes.
 

 

The interview with Cardi B, purveyor of such fine ballads as "Wet Ass Pussy" which I am playing as I write this, was particularly painful. I do understand that they have to play every card they have but it did rather highlight the complete lack of interviews with even friendly journalists (and they are pretty much all rooting for him).
 

 

Yes. After the outcry over the failure to mention burning American cities at any point during the DNC itself. That was a misjudgement.

 

That distinction is important and that is why it is vital for the mainstream left to condemn extremism. Both morally and electorally.

 

It doesn't matter what groups call themselves. Names are often chosen to specifically hide the actual nature of a group. The Nazis were the National Socialist Workers Party.

In terms of their actually actions - thuggery, burning books, deplatforming, destroying public properties, causing tens of millions of damage to deeply leftwing universites such as Berkley, smashing the skulls of peaceful protestors bicycles locks, peaceful protestors in hospital, bomb threats against premises hosting peaceful gatherings, petrol bombs, shining industrial strength lasers into the eyes of police and security personnel doing their jobs etc - there is no more fascist organization active in America today.

Likewise, Black Lives Matter seem to have very little concern for actual black lives. They have nothing to say about the nightly slaughter of black-on-black shooting in cities such as Chicago. Their serious demand that the police be defunded or stood down in Democrat-run cities will only lead to more such deaths.

 

I would put Biden gaffes up against Trumps gaffes for signs of old age especially recently. Biden's gaffes tend to make you feel uncomfortable whereas Trump gaffes, if they are gaffes, can cost lives e.g. the herd mentality line would be funny if he wasn't advocating a theory that could lead to a further million deaths.

I get the feeling there are small and  separate groups , sometimes violent as you say, that probably have a range of motives but are not one group, that have been lumped together by Fox News as Antifa.

Antifa are not the democrats are not Antifa. Joe Biden should not be held responsible for them as he never supports such view points. However there is a guy called Trump who actively retweets and supports right wing groups, QANON, etc.

[JusticeGB]

The American system of political parties choosing judges stinks. The judges are appointed for life so the Court can swing to the left or right dependant on who dies when a particular party has control of the Senate and is President. 

 

It's tasteless to begin appointing another judge when Ginsburg hasn't even had her funeral. In the UK judges are appointed by fellow judges. The Law Courts are separate from Parliament. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by JusticeGB
Separation of powers

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Did you have the same concerns about Justice Antonin Scalia?

Are you serious? Scalia was active and alert and seemingly in good condition until almost the moment he died. He had just been quail hunting the afternoon before he died. Someone with pancreatic cancer is in and out of it towards the end, in pain, under heavy medication. There is no comparison whatsoever. To do so, is simply kooky. 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, Poet said:

You think they will have debates? I would be impressed if they are willing to risk that. 

Biden outsmarts trump on all levels, so I have no doubt about the outcome of any debate. But why would the democrats do that, trump is burying himself. The further they stay away from him the better.

Edited September 19, 2020 by stevenl

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

Fill that seat Mr. President!

 

Getting the popcorn ready.

Sadly I assume he will be able to seat a new judge in his waning lame duck l'orange moments. 

 

But ironically he could probably help his chances of reelection by delaying this and diverting the main election issue to the scotus pick rather than his failed pandemic response.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Are you serious? Scalia was active and alert and seemingly in good condition until almost the moment he died. He had just been quail hunting the afternoon before he died. Someone with pancreatic cancer is in and out of it towards the end, in pain, under heavy medication. There is no comparison whatsoever. To do so, is simply kooky. 

And what evidence do you have that Justice Ginsburg was mentally impaired?

 

I spoke with my grandmother two days before she died of cancer; she was in full control of her mental faculties, though understandably depressed.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

10 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

The American system of political parties choosing judges stinks. The judges are appointed for life so the Court can swing to the left or right dependant on who dies when a particular party has control of the Senate and is President. 

 

It's tasteless to begin appointing another judge when Ginsburg hasn't even had her funeral. In the UK judges are appointed by fellow judges. The Law Courts are separate from Parliament. 

I saw some where that when they made the lifetime appointment rule people didn't tend live so long. Maybe in 2020 they could limit it to 20 years. Still long enough to be independent but not so long that it's a bit ridiculous.

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Not how the game is played. You dont know how many republicans sat at home in blue states instead of voting - popular vote is meaningless dribble barfed up by the sour grapes crew. 

 

 

This minority seems to be giving you guys a real run for your money. First step is admitting you guys have a problem. Only then can you move forward. 

 

17 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

How often do people need to be reminded that the popular vote is irrelevant for the presidential election?

 

The U.S. President doesn't need to be "popular around the world" as long as he gets the job done at home and for Americans.

 

No one claimed the popular vote decided things. It was brought up in the context of commentary on what most people support etc. It will be brought up as many times as Trump supporters go on about majority, silent or otherwise.

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, Morch said:

No one claimed the popular vote decided things. It was brought up in the context of commentary on what most people support etc. It will be brought up as many times as Trump supporters go on about majority, silent or otherwise.

 

And I will counter that its an illogical position because people will sit home instead of voting in states that are hardcore blue or red and their vote is contrary. Only if the vote was counted as the popular vote tally would you have an accurate idea. 

 

Barfing up the 'popular vote' does not matter. 

[John Drake]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

And what evidence do you have that Justice Ginsburg was mentally impaired?

 

I spoke with my grandmother two days before she died of cancer; she was in full control of her mental faculties, though understandably depressed.

The tendency of Ginsburg enthusiasts to disregard her health has been the subject of criticism from both the right and left. The right believes there were legitimate questions regarding her ability to perform her duties. Many on the left were livid when she refused to retire during Obama's last term, because they realized she likely would not live out the term of office of Obama's successor, which they feared would be a Republican.

 

The tendency of some people, not you, heybruce, to label these questions as "conspiracy theories and "cancel" them from the conversation, shows just how frightening the political conversation in the US has become. And how limiting. Here's two articles for anyone interested. 

 

 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/16/ruth-bader-ginsburg-supreme-court-health-224014

 

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/what-cult-ruth-bader-ginsburg-rbg-got-wrong-obama-trump/

[Fat is a type of crazy]

10 hours ago, Poet said:

No, they call themselves Antifa. They are not "sometimes violent", their raison d'être is violence and intimidation. Such groups have been a key tactic for all extremist groups to attain power, whether on the left or right. Yes, all such criminal networks operate in cells

It is a self-damaging blindness on the part of Democrats to ascribe everything you are uncomfortable with to Fox News.

Again, I am saying that this election is yours to lose. A president has never been re-elected in a situation this dire. If Trump does get re-elected, it will be 100% down to the Democrat failure to react appropriately and bravely in realtime to the overreactions of those with whom you are associated.

 

 I think you'll agree that their motives of combating fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other far-right extremists, has some merit, though I 100 per cent agree the use of violence should not be tolerated. They are not democrats.

 

If you don't think Fox News saw Antifa as a go to scare tactic on the law and order issue then we can agree to disagree. The violent protests is a fair issue of concern but Fox News coverage, and blaming of democrats, is over the top. 

 

I will say gun violence in say Chicago is a different issue and it shocks me it is allowed to continue. I put it down to kids being allowed access to guns and breakdown of families. If anywhere there should be a crackdown its there. Probably getting off topic.

[Laza 45]

3 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

It will be a character test for Trump, whether or not he will tweet about his nomination already this weekend or whether he will want for Mrs. Justice Ginsburg's funeral to end...

 

Wait... has he tweeted already while I wrote these lines?

Trump and his ghouls would replace her before her funeral if they could.  

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

And I will counter that its an illogical position because people will sit home instead of voting in states that are hardcore blue or red and their vote is contrary. Only if the vote was counted as the popular vote tally would you have an accurate idea. 

 

Barfing up the 'popular vote' does not matter. 

And I will counter that those who care enough to vote are the best measure of what most people think; about Trump and other matters.  If you have a better measure please share it.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

I am not political but this could very well help nudge swing voters towards the Republicans. Considering the hysteria around the last Supreme Court selection, and multiplying that by the current already-fevered atmosphere, many radical leftists will now shift even further into orbit.

I predict Trump will nominate Judge Amy Coney Barrett, counting on the Democrats to monster her the way they did Judge Brett Kavanaugh. That hurt the Democrats in the polls but, this time, they will be attacking the sort of likeable, accomplished woman that suburban moms can identify with.

Since the pandemic hit, I have said that this election was the Democrats' to lose. I initially thought Biden was a mistake but hadn't realized that the pandemic would allow them to avoid the debates, so, an astonishingly lucky set of circumstances. As long as they can present him as boring but likeable Uncle Joe, the antithesis of Trump, he's perfect, they only need to control the real Biden so that he doesn't spoil that illusion. I still think Kamala was a mistake but she, too, benefits from being kept out of the public eye. They mainly win this by staying under the radar and allowing the election to be a referendum on Trump.

What swings things towards the Republicans are when events turn the focus to the worst instincts of the Democrats. For example, not mentioning the riots once during the DNC, not even some vague words of condemnation or even sympathy for the black small business owners whose livelihoods being destroyed by BLM and Antifa, solidified the law and order issue in Trump's favor. Now, the treatment of the Supreme Court candidate may well surface the worst instincts of the Democrats.

With just 45 days to go until the election, RBG's death lobs a grenade into the situation. The Democrats need to maintain discipline and keep their heads down. They have the most to lose by allowing their hysterical instincts to take over. This thread is a preview of how badly that could make them look to regular voters.

 

 

Why do you bother with the "I'm not political" bit? Do you think anyone buys into it? Plain trolling? Or did someone tell you that's the proper way to start pseudo-objective sounding posts?

 

Your insinuated false facts, conspiracy theories and disdain for Trump's opposition are clearly showing in almost each paragraph. Most of it partisan opinions, and not even original ones, at that.

 

You claim the previous SC appointment process hurt the Democrats in the polls. How so? What polls? And since when did Trump supporters place much importance on polls?

 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The tendency of Ginsburg enthusiasts to disregard her health has been the subject of criticism from both the right and left. The right believes there were legitimate questions regarding her ability to perform her duties. Many on the left were livid when she refused to retire during Obama's last term, because they realized she likely would not live out the term of office of Obama's successor, which they feared would be a Republican.

 

The tendency of some people, not you, heybruce, to label these questions as "conspiracy theories and "cancel" them from the conversation, shows just how frightening the political conversation in the US has become. And how limiting. Here's two articles for anyone interested. 

 

 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/16/ruth-bader-ginsburg-supreme-court-health-224014

 

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/what-cult-ruth-bader-ginsburg-rbg-got-wrong-obama-trump/

I agree that the political conversation has become the equivalent of the "split scream" that used to pass for debate on some news channels.  However what people believe is irrelevant to the question of Justice Ginsberg's mental abilities.  I am aware of  no evidence that she was unable to competently perform her duties.

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, Poet said:

I would guess that the vast majority of the people attacking you here are not Americans. They do not understand or care about how U.S. democracy is structured.

It is a waste of time to argue with people who have no interest in reality, no interest in learning, no capacity to understand that others might hold different beliefs. They are acting in bad faith. I have learned to be exceedingly picky about who I bother responding to here. Never feel obliged to respond to an idiot.

 

 

I would guess that you are not aware of the nationality of posters commenting, or the irrelevance of your comment. Somehow, in Trump fans minds' it is impossible to know how USA democracy is structured other than by being a USA citizen. Considering the President you guys support doesn't seem to have much of a clue on that, it's a bit of a funny argument.

 

As for name calling, expressing disparaging view on posters, and the like - not expecting much, so not a real surprise. What if worthy of pointing out is, again, the hypocrisy of them "I'm not political" comments - but do go on about "bad faith".

[Mama Noodle]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Somehow, in Trump fans minds' it is impossible to know how USA democracy is structured other than by being a USA citizen.

 

Its not about knowing how its structured, its about knowing and living there and understanding why people vote the way they do because of what they see and what they have to live with. 

 

You may know technically how it works but youll never understand what drives people to do what they do because ultimately most only have a superficial perspective. 

 

Its why I generally dont comment on UK or Thai politics (much) because thats their fight and they will vote based on what they had to live with, and I certainly wouldnt go after people for voting the way they do if Im not a citizen.

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

Why do you bother with the "I'm not political" bit? Do you think anyone buys into it? Plain trolling? Or did someone tell you that's the proper way to start pseudo-objective sounding posts?

I can understand his assertion. I think I fit it as well. I have opinions on matters. I dislike Trump, think his economic policies are disastrous, and his self centeredness catastrophic. I also think Biden is a career opportunist, a confirmed and proven plagiarist about his own life story, and, at this point, probably senile. Given the choice between the Biden of 30 years ago, however, and Donald Trump, I would likely vote for the old Biden. But I'll probably not vote at all if these two are the choice this year.

 

So, once more, when I get up in the morning, I don't turn on the news. I don't look at it until hours into the day. At night, I read a novel. In other words, politics is not my life, as it appears to be for so many on this forum. That's why I don't have thousands and thousands of posts.

 

What is wrong with people who do not eat, drink, and breathe politics having an occasional opinion on matters, even if it disagrees with the politiprofessionals on this forum?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Its not about knowing how its structured, its about knowing and living there and understanding why people vote the way they do because of what they see and what they have to live with. 

 

You may know technically how it works but youll never understand what drives people to do what they do because ultimately most only have a superficial perspective. 

 

Its why I generally dont comment on UK or Thai politics (much) because thats their fight and they will vote based on what they had to live with, and I certainly wouldnt go after people for voting the way they do if Im not a citizen.

 

Kindly refer to the post I was replying to, and tale your issues with that poster. Also, please stop quoting bits of posts out of context. I don't see you having issues with Trump supporters commenting on global issues even though they do not live in the countries discussed.

 

Either way, your position - seeking to disregard views on such grounds was repeatedly rejected on this forum. Give it a rest.

[Poet]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

If you don't think Fox News saw Antifa as a go to scare tactic on the law and order issue then we can agree to disagree.

That isn't what you said. You suggested that Fox News was labeling small, unaffiliated violent groups who were not Antifa as Antifa. That happens to be incorrect.

I have no doubt that Fox News and any of the deeply partisan TV news organisations on the other side will make the maximum use of whatever cards they are dealt. You can hardly fault them for that in the current hyper-reality.
 

 

6 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I will say gun violence in say Chicago is a different issue and it shocks me it is allowed to continue. I put it down to kids being allowed access to guns and breakdown of families. If anywhere there should be a crackdown its there.

It might be painful to face this reality head on, but any solution will require more cops, not fewer. The actual Democrat establishment knows this, which makes their use and endorsement of BLM deeply hypocritical. This has become a "By Any Means Necessary" election for the Democrats and, even if they win, the legacy of that will be more damaging to America than anything Trump has done.

In any case, while I respect your exposition of your views, we are clearly experiencing different realities. It would be foolhardy of me to try to argue fact-by-fact, so, I shall wish you a good day and head out in search of a strong coffee and a delicious banana pancake ????☕????

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic also baiting and bickering posts removed, topic is not about Mr Trump

 

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg dies at age 87 from pancreatic cancer

 

 

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I can understand his assertion. I think I fit it as well. I have opinions on matters. I dislike Trump, think his economic policies are disastrous, and his self centeredness catastrophic. I also think Biden is a career opportunist, a confirmed and proven plagiarist about his own life story, and, at this point, probably senile. Given the choice between the Biden of 30 years ago, however, and Donald Trump, I would likely vote for the old Biden. But I'll probably not vote at all if these two are the choice this year.

 

So, once more, when I get up in the morning, I don't turn on the news. I don't look at it until hours into the day. At night, I read a novel. In other words, politics is not my life, as it appears to be for so many on this forum. That's why I don't have thousands and thousands of posts.

 

What is wrong with people who do not eat, drink, and breathe politics having an occasional opinion on matters, even if it disagrees with the politiprofessionals on this forum?

 

Yawn.

When a poster makes repeated comments about not being political, stressing it even - then routinely engages with rhetoric almost exclusively critical and derisive of one side, it's hardly believable he's not political.

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sadly I assume he will be able to seat a new judge in his waning lame duck l'orange moments. 

 

But ironically he could probably help his chances of reelection by delaying this and diverting the main election issue to the scotus pick rather than his failed pandemic response.

 

Can do both. Keep the SC replacement issue alive as long as possible, thus covering some for the Covid-19 response issue, push for appointment just before elections to score with the home crowd (and undecided conservatives).

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Can do both. Keep the SC replacement issue alive as long as possible, thus covering some for the Covid-19 response issue, push for appointment just before elections to score with the home crowd (and undecided conservatives).

Good point.

We're in worse case scenarios zone.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

15 minutes ago, Poet said:

That isn't what you said. You suggested that Fox News was labeling small, unaffiliated violent groups who were not Antifa as Antifa. That happens to be incorrect.

I have no doubt that Fox News and any of the deeply partisan TV news organisations on the other side will make the maximum use of whatever cards they are dealt. You can hardly fault them for that in the current hyper-reality.
 

 

It might be painful to face this reality head on, but any solution will require more cops, not fewer. The actual Democrat establishment knows this, which makes their use and endorsement of BLM deeply hypocritical. This has become a "By Any Means Necessary" election for the Democrats and, even if they win, the legacy of that will be more damaging to America than anything Trump has done.

In any case, while I respect your exposition of your views, we are clearly experiencing different realities. It would be foolhardy of me to try to argue fact-by-fact, so, I shall wish you a good day and head out in search of a strong coffee and a delicious banana pancake ????☕????

 

Fair nuff. Enjoy your pancake.

[FlyingThai]

44 minutes ago, heybruce said:

And what evidence do you have that Justice Ginsburg was mentally impaired?

 

I spoke with my grandmother two days before she died of cancer; she was in full control of her mental faculties, though understandably depressed.

Cancer isn't cancer. Pancreatic cancer is extremely aggressive and in it's final stage associated with a lot of pain. It's inconceivable someone was not drugged up to the max especially at 87 years of age.

 

You don't have to be "mentally impaired" to not be able to function. Practicing law is demanding enough as it is, absolutely impossible to do so while in the last stretch of life, suffering from pc.

[Sujo]

27 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

Cancer isn't cancer. Pancreatic cancer is extremely aggressive and in it's final stage associated with a lot of pain. It's inconceivable someone was not drugged up to the max especially at 87 years of age.

 

You don't have to be "mentally impaired" to not be able to function. Practicing law is demanding enough as it is, absolutely impossible to do so while in the last stretch of life, suffering from pc.

To justify your concern you will need to tell us what decisions she made that caused all of the justices to disagree with her.

 

You know, evidence showing how she lost her faculties enough that all the others disagreed with her.

 

If not, then you are talking out of your hat.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Sujo

[Chomper Higgot]

I suggest great care in selecting RGB’s replacement.

 

The last two appointees are certain to face removal for perjury during their appointment hearings.

 

 

‘Only the best people’.

[Tippaporn]

An interesting thought by National Review columnist John Fund:

 

"The Court must be at a full compliment should any election disputes such as Bush v Gore occur."

 

Can't have a 4-4 result if the election is to be decided by the SC.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Tippaporn