Six months? Nobody knows what it'll look like in six months. This sounds more of politics than anything else.

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

So i was right that you had a bone in it, you just used the poor Thais for your argument.

 

Now I know where your coming from your own pocket. 

 

Ok mate, if youre gonna be like that, you can do it by yourself. 

 

Later. 

21 minutes ago, robblok said:

No as it was proven then already. Why would they go back and prove something that has been proven already.

The article you refer to dates from June 18, and it addressed the period March-April-May, the height of the covid-outbreak in Europe.  Claiming that re excess deaths things haven't changed in Europe over the past 4 months is not very credible.

 

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

The best way is still to compare average death rates. I hope you can agree with that. Because the only thing changed is covid so if death rates are a lot higher then normal its all covid. No need for tests and so on. Its actually the best real check there is (if you think about it) Sure its not full proof but better then what is available.

Yes, excess death rate trend is one of the best real checks, as it is as good as impossible to tamper with those figures. 

No need to convince me that during the March-April-May period in Europe there was a spike in excess dates due to covid.

But given the fall in reported deaths due to covid since that Peak time, it is clear that this 'dreaded 2nd wave' narrative resulting in 'bodies piling up on the streets' is a fable spread by people with an agenda.

 

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am pleased your willing to learn so what did you learn from this article.. you probably learned that deaths are not being hidden at all as this clearly showed deaths being under reported. Just imagine the deaths in say India now.

I agree that deaths are not hidden at all, and comparing the daily number of cases with the daily number of deaths, shows that positive tested cases have risen dramatically (no wonder given the amount of tests being conducted).  But in contrast with the initial outbreak, looking at the deaths (a crude measure for severity of these cases) that figure stays stable in as good as all European countries.

Note: Looking at the comparison profile of cases vs deaths in Sweden compared with other European countries will also be an eye-opener.

Proving your point that Europe is facing a 2nd covid-crisis by referring to India???

 

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

But you want current data. I cannot give you but this data is still valid.

The data you referred to are valid, but do we really need to refer to the initial Covid-outbreak figures to prove that covid was more deathly than a normal flu? 

Let's resume this dialogue when the current data are in.

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The article you refer to dates from June 18, and it addressed the period March-April-May, the height of the covid-outbreak in Europe.  Claiming that re excess deaths things haven't changed in Europe over the past 4 months is not very credible.

 

Yes, excess death rate trend is one of the best real checks, as it is as good as impossible to tamper with those figures. 

No need to convince me that during the March-April-May period in Europe there was a spike in excess dates due to covid.

But given the fall in reported deaths due to covid since that Peak time, it is clear that this 'dreaded 2nd wave' narrative resulting in 'bodies piling up on the streets' is a fable spread by people with an agenda.

 

I agree that deaths are not hidden at all, and comparing the daily number of cases with the daily number of deaths, shows that positive tested cases have risen dramatically (no wonder given the amount of tests being conducted).  But in contrast with the initial outbreak, looking at the deaths (a crude measure for severity of these cases) that figure stays stable in as good as all European countries.

Note: Looking at the comparison profile of cases vs deaths in Sweden compared with other European countries will also be an eye-opener.

Proving your point that Europe is facing a 2nd covid-crisis by referring to India???

 

The data you referred to are valid, but do we really need to refer to the initial Covid-outbreak figures to prove that covid was more deathly than a normal flu? 

Let's resume this dialogue when the current data are in.

I am just saying that I think the method of registering has not changed. But you might be right best would be extra new data. I wish I could give you that I am as curious as you are.

 

Average death rates is something that just can't be faked. Its not fullproof but the best. Good that we agree upon something. 

14 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Ok mate, if youre gonna be like that, you can do it by yourself. 

 

Later. 

Just calling them how i see them mate. Because I don't feel restricted at all and neither do the majority of Thais. Its the people like you and tourist related that see things differently because they are affected harder. I am affected too but accept that it is how it is.

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Just calling them how i see them mate. Because I don't feel restricted at all and neither do the majority of Thais. Its the people like you and tourist related that see things differently because they are affected harder. I am affected too but accept that it is how it is.

 

Im married to a thai, perfectly stable financially, and its got nothing to do with "how im affected" because this thread started about the UK, and Ive got no dog in UKs fight, but I feel the same way about them too, lockdowns are against what I am about, fundamentally. 

 

You really REALLY want to make this personal, and thats a cheap cop-out coming from a weak position. 

 

Now that we've got that little mess cleared up, you can holler into the void all you want. 

1 hour ago, nemo38 said:

People get sick from the flu. Very old people, and those with co-morbidities, especially so.

 

How old was the person who went into a coma and what were their pre-existing conditions?
 

People over a hundred year old recovered from Covid. It isn't the black death. People in Wuhan are back to night clubs.

 

He was a professional rugby player.

2 hours ago, nemo38 said:

 

Stay home if you don't feel safe. 

 

Don't walk under any coconut trees. Don't cross the road. Don't swim in the sea in case of sharks. Life is a risk.

What you're ACTUALLY arguing for is the right to park other people under coconut trees, your right to throw other people into the sea where there may be sharks. 

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Im married to a thai, perfectly stable financially, and its got nothing to do with "how im affected" because this thread started about the UK, and Ive got no dog in UKs fight, but I feel the same way about them too, lockdowns are against what I am about, fundamentally. 

 

You really REALLY want to make this personal, and thats a cheap cop-out coming from a weak position. 

 

Now that we've got that little mess cleared up, you can holler into the void all you want. 

I am fundamentally pro lockdowns to keep things under control. The US messed up and are paying the price. 

 

If your married to a Thai you can go out and come back. Yes you will have to have your quarantine.

 

Anyway I am happy the government did the things they did. Its here 10x better then in the US and Europe. 

 

The lockdown sucked, and because they dont open up we don't need new lockdowns.

The Uk barely managed to contain the first wave. They never got the numbers low enough to begin effective contact tracing and isolation of infected individuals. It appears they have not learned a thing and are still woefully unprepared. It going to be slow burn genocide through the northern winter an not just for the UK.

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by Swimfan

4 minutes ago, Swimfan said:

The Uk barely managed to contain the first wave. They never got the numbers low enough to begin effective contact tracing and isolation of infected individuals. It appears they have not learned a thing and are still woefully unprepared. It going to be slow burn genocide through the northern winter an not just for the UK.

A 1st grader assignment > Spot the difference in the graphs between the initial covid-19 pandemic and the dreadful Second Genocide Wave.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

A 1st grader assignment > Spot the difference in the graphs between the initial covid-19 pandemic and the dreadful Second Genocide Wave.

More testing results in finding more infections  but "strangely" the death rate  is flat lined ? perhaps  the people who where most susceptible to the virus (old and/or with other life threatening diseases) have already died,  leaving the remaining population who do indeed catch the virus  but suffer only mild to middling symptoms the hospitals  now know how to much more effectively care for patients but

of course some poor souls will catch it and still die even if they are young fit and healthy.

24 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

A 1st grader assignment > Spot the difference in the graphs between the initial covid-19 pandemic and the dreadful Second Genocide Wave.

 

 

Come back at the end of the northern winter and we will revisit. Its well documented that most of the current end of summer infection are mostly in young people hence the lower death rate. 

7 minutes ago, Swimfan said:

Come back at the end of the northern winter and we will revisit. Its well documented that most of the current end of summer infection are mostly in young people hence the lower death rate. 

There is a "normal"  rise in deaths during the winter. 

It will be "interesting" to see how  much the WuFlu virus

increases the numbers this year and also how they (those reporting the debacle)  separate deaths from WuFlu VS death from the seasonal Flu that claims many thousands every year. 

4 minutes ago, johng said:

There is a "normal"  rise in deaths during the winter. 

It will be "interesting" to see how  much the WuFlu virus

increases the numbers this year and also how they (those reporting the debacle)  separate deaths from WuFlu VS death from the seasonal Flu that claims many thousands every year. 

On top of that you have the phenomenon that most older people were advised to stay 'safe at home' during spring/summer and did get little sunshine nor opportunity to build resistance during that period.  Not a good start for the winter season and coming excess deaths might well be largely due to the Virus Protection Measures imposed on them... 

The Guardian are saying Covid is here to stay. People will start moving away from countries that have a tyrannical virus regime, where they can.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/21/coronavirus-here-to-stay-moonshot

8 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Im always a bit skeptical when I read people know so many that have died. Statistically, its almost an anomaly to know so many severe covid cases. 

 

 May i humbly suggest that we rely on the Scientific decisions of the World Health Organisation .

   We pay them , more than enough ..

 

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by elliss

Just now, elliss said:

May i humbly suggest that we rely on the decisions of the World Health Organisation .

   We pay them , more than enough ..

 

Sure, if you want to rely on an unelected bureaucracy to run your country then be my guest. 

3 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Sure, if you want to rely on an unelected bureaucracy to run your country then be my guest. 

 

    Please inform me .

      Are there any other alternatives ..?

 

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by elliss

19 hours ago, 473geo said:

Just a little tightening up, a reminder to people not to become complacent.

There was always going to be concerns as the weather turns colder, the days shorter, so a little preventative maintenance for good measure, seeking to do enough, that should a second wave roll in, measures were in fact put in place to effect some control

 

Otherwise little change, hardly a draconian 'lockdown ' repeat, UK gradually returning to normality

 

         After the wet damp UK / EU  winter ,conditions ideal for Covid-19 , transmission ...

         Normality , returning to normal ??..

 

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by elliss

8 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Sounds like gossip, honestly. I went this whole time not knowing anyone who caught the virus, then a few weeks ago trying to get back to work offshore, found out that several of my co-workers caught the virus onboard ships in Brazil. Everyone recovered fine, I talk to them all the time, and they said the worst of it was the fear of having it. Some didn't even know they had it, and others felt most of it in fevers/chills/cough. Not saying it isnt bad, but it certainly isnt a death sentence and most people fully recover without even needing hospital treatment. 

Three of my fellow workers just demobilized in Singapore from a 35-day gig offshore Vietnam. They each had to endure at least five PCR tests during the job and the last couple of guys have just been given the all clear after 7-days home quarantine in Singapore. Similarly there were no reported cases among the +35 other crew members who are now headed off to India.

 

On the other hand, a friend of mine who left Nigeria in March just before they closed up due to Covid briefly pondered the call to return to offshore work there in June. He declined but several of his fellow expats signed back up. Three got sick and two have died of Covid before they could be repatriated.

 

Sounds like gossip honestly.

8 hours ago, xylophone said:

Oh really? Some useful stats here..............

 

"By way of a more apt comparison, Covid-19 has already killed around four times as many people as a bad flu season in the US.

 

In the last decade, 2017-18 was the worst flu season with 61,000 deaths, followed by 2014-15 with 51,000 deaths".

 

  Links , would be much appreciated .

   Preferably not from , WHO , whom we have little faith in ...

 

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by elliss

11 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Three got sick and two have died of Covid before they could be repatriated.

So a 66% fatality rate eh?

5 hours ago, elliss said:

 

         After the wet damp UK / EU  winter ,conditions ideal for Covid-19 , transmission ...

         Normality , returning to normal ??..

 

Yep a bit of flu, colds, sneezes, a bit of covid, kids at school people returning to work nothing to worry about

21 hours ago, nemo38 said:

China made the decision to stop testing for the virus. Bodies are not piling up in the streets. In fact, they are partying in Wuhan.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/nightclubs-wuhan-packed-coronavirus-epicentre-22712888

 

Yes. And, give or take a couple of months, this restoration of normalcy in China is roughly one year after it first kicked off there.

 

Why should the west feel entitled to get the fast-track back to the pub and footie?

13 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

So a 66% fatality rate eh?

Or a 33% survival rate, eh?

 

There's no denying that the risks are higher in certain locales. My being on the twilight side of 60, I try to reduce the risks as I am not bulletproof and invincible anymore (if I ever was).

 

You take's your chances but keep in mind that not everyone is responsible and considerate like you and I and wash their hands, wear a mask and keep their distance.

 

...you DO wash your hands, wear a mask and keep your distance don't you?

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Or a 33% survival rate, eh?

 

As per you, 2 out of 3 are dead. 

 

Thats a 66% fatality rate. 

 

Statistically, your claim is extremely unlikely. 

14 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Links , would be much appreciated .

   Preferably not from , WHO , whom we have little faith in ...

 

By way of a more apt comparison, Covid-19 has already killed around four times as many people as a bad flu season in the US.

 

In the last decade, 2017-18 was the worst flu season with 61,000 deaths, followed by 2014-15 with 51,000 deaths.

The 2009 swine flu (H1N1) pandemic infected an estimated 60.8 million people in the US and killed more than 12,000.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12367307 

4 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Or a 33% survival rate, eh?

 

As per you, 2 out of 3 are dead. 

 

Thats a 66% fatality rate. 

 

Statistically, your claim is extremely unlikely. 

I did say that "risks are higher in certain locales" but maybe that's too abstruse a construct for you?

 

Have you worked in Nigeria? In 2002, I had a crew member die of complications from a P. falciparum malaria infection. They were unable to provide dialysis in a timely manner in the Post Harcourt hospital and was transferred to a Lagos hospital where they could only stabilize his condition. It was gutting as the medics had landed at Lagos airport that morning and were on the way to the hospital to prepare him for the life-flight home when he died.

 

Statistically, it was unlikely that one of our 12-man crew would be more susceptible to P. falciparum malaria complications than the others.

 

But he was.

Edited September 24, 20205 yr by NanLaew

On 9/23/2020 at 1:32 PM, 2long said:

 

 

Coronavirus before 10 PM

 

 

 

Coronavirus after 10 PM.

 

 

 

Coronavirus around 2 AM.