New Scooter Advice

[johng]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Waves seem underpowered to me, I'm always accelerating round them at traffic lights

I suspect that's more to do with the rider than the Wave being "underpowered"  you on the auto scooter will

have (in most cases) an acceleration advantage over a geared bike of the same engine size but loose out in the mid to top speed.

 

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

on any bike you have to be careful of loose sand, slippery drains etc

Absolutely 100% agreed.

[richard_smith237]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

While I will probably get sneers from the hardened riders, 60km/hr is my limit when I have a clear path with no chance of surprises, and my rear view mirrors get a good workout. 30-40 km/hr when there is a possibility of fluckwittery, as you put it. That's on all suburban and city streets. I also avoid riding at night, take the car instead.

Good suggestion re practicing hard braking, thanks. I have an ideal spot for it.

 

Avoiding riding at night cuts the risk factor down by well over 50% I’d guesstimate.... After dark its too difficult to see crud on the roads, potholes etc and then there is the poor eyesight of half the other drivers, and the other half are drunk (also with poor eyesight).

 

 

 

 

I see so many accidents on YouTube etc and for the most part I’ve no idea how the motorcyclists was so outrageously unobservant that they failed to see whatever it was they hit... some of the accidents are simply astonishing. 

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

For a scooter, im a cheap charlie. Yamaha auto with disk fronts and drum rears. Couldn't care less about ABS. 

 

I also generally use the rear brake for casual riding and pull the front into it for harder stops. Scooters are so loose and sloppy and light that i feel WAY safer locking up the back rather than the front, if it happens. 

 

Large bikes and higher speeds I ride different. 

[EVENKEEL]

I ride with one or two fingers on the front brake lever at all times on a twist n go. Usually brake with a bit of both front and back.

 

[johng]

9 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I ride with one or two fingers on the front brake lever at all times on a twist n go. Usually brake with a bit of both front and back.

 

I ride with 2 fingers on the clutch as well as the front brake  a left over from riding 2 strokes ????

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Waves seem underpowered to me, I'm always accelerating round them at traffic lights

But that's due to the rider, not due to the bike. Many Thais never change gears and just ride them in second gear all the time.

A Honda Wave 125 loses against a 125cc auto scooter on the first meters, but after that the Wave pulls away. Top speed is also higher.

Edited September 23, 2020 by jackdd

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

But that's due to the rider, not due to the bike. Many Thais never change gears and just ride them in second gear all the time.

A Honda Wave 125 loses against a 125cc auto scooter on the first meters, but after that the Wave pulls away. Top speed is also higher.

It must be the bike too as 90% of the bikes I go round at traffic lights are Waves because they are so slow off the mark, I appreciate the gears are part of the reason

[bodga]

16 hours ago, jackdd said:

drum brakes always suck

not  that  important when front brake is  providing 75%  of  stopping ability

[moose7117]

16 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I have the 125i Click which has CBS (combined braking system), right brake is front, left brake is about 30% front 70% back. Brakes work fine for me but you should train yourself to automatically go for the left brake to start with in an emergency stop. My instinct (and many others) is to use the right, which is the back brake on my road bike. If you grab the right brake the front wheel locks and the bike goes down

are you sure about that ?

Left on a "road bike" is usually the clutch and the right is front brake, rear brake is foot actuated.

Unless you are riding a bike with the aforementioned "combi brake"

 

before you get all heated i give left and right from the perspective of the rider and a "road bike" is a proper motorcycle with gears and clutch and not a scooter.

Edited September 23, 2020 by moose7117

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, moose7117 said:

are you sure about that ?

Left on a "road bike" is usually the clutch and the right is front brake, rear brake is foot actuated.

Unless you are riding a bike with the aforementioned "combi brake"

 

before you get all heated i give left and right from the perspective of the rider and a "road bike" is a proper motorcycle with gears and clutch and not a scooter.

I'll clarify, my road bike is the term for a racer type bicycle. On mine the right is back brake, which I use as first choice. 

 

On my Honda Click, the right is the front brake hence easy to get confused so I trained myself to instinctively use the left brake then apply right if necessary

[stament]

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I ride with one or two fingers on the front brake lever at all times on a twist n go. Usually brake with a bit of both front and back.

 

same as me lol

[alx123]

Get the ABS, you won't regret it. 

Have two bikes, one with ABS and one without, the difference in braking confidence is huge. 

As for the tires, most original tires are decent enough for daily use. Better tires are awesome, but not necessary. 

 

[Dolmance]

I can't speak for motor scooters, but I can't see why they would be any different from a regular  motorcycle, as far as braking is concerned.  Anyone who relies on the front brake only, or does not integrate the rear and front brake as a matter of course is, without question, courting death.  The bike is inherently unstable using just the front brake, or even using the rear just a little.  That's a perfect way to go flying over your handlebars with your back wheel up in the air, or even sending the bike tumbling along with you.  This is how you get a compound fracture, often referred to as a "broken neck," and if severe enough, can give you the very same injury suffered by Christopher Reeve when he was launched over his horse and landed on his head.

 

Learn to use both brakes without having to think about it, so when that emergency situation comes, and it surely will come, don't break your neck.  If you don't believe me, do the research about best motorcycle safety practices.

[wwest5829]

I can only state that I am pleased with my Aerox 155c bike purchased a year ago. I did not upgrade tires or to ABzs. So far not a problem here in Chiang Mai ... but I have been here 9 years and know to drive defensively (ha! Raised on US East Coast).

[jor]

16 hours ago, johng said:

I ride with 2 fingers on the clutch as well as the front brake  a left over from riding 2 strokes ????

As an ex two-stroke club racer, I still have my clutch finger at the ready even when riding a four-stroke. 

[onekoolguy]

Definitely go with the ABS and the Michelin street tires! I have ridden my whole life and never gone down until recently when I turned into a soi a little fast and hit some sand while on the brakes. I was down in an instant. No ABS. Would it have saved me? Maybe? I was not hurt. The other thing is to always wear the safety gear. This same thing happened to my neighbor and he got a broken shoulder out of it. Slow speed turning crash. Slow speed crashes are extremely common here and most of the injuries that I see could have been prevented by wearing at least some protective clothing and of course a good helmet. The other thing, If you get the tires, check the pressure yourself! Installers here seem to think that its ok to just eyeball the pressure which usually means that the tires will be over inflated and will not handle properly!

[johng]

2 minutes ago, onekoolguy said:

I turned into a soi a little fast and hit some sand while on the brakes. I was down in an instant. No ABS. Would it have saved me? Maybe?

 

If you are leaned over in a turn and hit some sand,oil or ice ABS can not stop the wheel from sliding out.

 

4 minutes ago, onekoolguy said:

If you get the tires, check the pressure yourself!

Yes I've had over 100 PSI  put in by a shop  felt like riding a boneshaker though my suspension had gone.

but on the + side you'll get better acceleration,top speed , fuel economy  and don't have to pump them up so often when the shop does it ????

[scubascuba3]

44 minutes ago, johng said:

 

If you are leaned over in a turn and hit some sand,oil or ice ABS can not stop the wheel from sliding out.

 

I agree and if you see sand you need to slow down and certainly don't lean over as you don't know how deep it is. The roads to Pattaya Transport office yesterday had loads of sand patches

[moose7117]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'll clarify, my road bike is the term for a racer type bicycle. On mine the right is back brake, which I use as first choice. 

 

On my Honda Click, the right is the front brake hence easy to get confused so I trained myself to instinctively use the left brake then apply right if necessary

OOPS i thought we was talking about motorbikes not pushbikes.

 

My Bad.

[scubascuba3]

Just now, moose7117 said:

OOPS i thought we was talking about motorbikes not pushbikes.

 

My Bad.

we were but I mentioned it as it was a reason for possible confusion when braking, believe it or not quite a few cyclists about 

[moose7117]

7 hours ago, Dolmance said:

I can't speak for motor scooters, but I can't see why they would be any different from a regular  motorcycle, as far as braking is concerned.  Anyone who relies on the front brake only, or does not integrate the rear and front brake as a matter of course is, without question, courting death.  The bike is inherently unstable using just the front brake, or even using the rear just a little.  That's a perfect way to go flying over your handlebars with your back wheel up in the air, or even sending the bike tumbling along with you.  This is how you get a compound fracture, often referred to as a "broken neck," and if severe enough, can give you the very same injury suffered by Christopher Reeve when he was launched over his horse and landed on his head.

 

Learn to use both brakes without having to think about it, so when that emergency situation comes, and it surely will come, don't break your neck.  If you don't believe me, do the research about best motorcycle safety practices.

UHM.........watch any motorbike race and you will see riders with the rear wheel in the air whilst braking.

 

Go and do a decent advanced riders course and they will teach you about braking and the effects applying the brakes independently has on the handling characteristics of a motorcycle.

 

and i do not believe you about your ides of best motorcycle practices.

[moose7117]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

we were but I mentioned it as it was a reason for possible confusion when braking, believe it or not quite a few cyclists about 

After further research, the right lever on me roady, Bicycle that is, is da front brake as well.

[teacherclaire]

On 9/23/2020 at 1:04 PM, jackdd said:

I would say it's just a matter of taste. Imho drum brakes always suck, doesn't matter if you apply them by hand of by foot.

Having a rear disc brake would of course be a plus. But the rear brake is not really important, because most braking (80% or so) is done with the front anyway.

That's also the reason why so many kids have accidents.

A little bit rain and pulling the front brake does the trick.

How many of these riders actually know which one's the front brake? 

[stament]

Have done a bit more research and the Finn has united braking system which I assume is the same as the Honda combi braking system.  I also noted this isn't a feature on the Wave 110i.

 

As for the Click that has combi braking and idling which are attractive features although it does make me wonder do you really save a lot of fuel in the city using idling?  Clearly better for the environment which is why I find it odd that it's not standard now on new bikes.  The Wave and Finn don't have this technology and only the top Aerox does whereas on the Click it comes as standard.

 

I wish there were more options available, I like the look of the Aerox and the ABS brakes would be a bonus but I hate the remote key start, I much prefer a key and this puts me off.  Why don't they have more variations or where you can add-on?  Like a lower model Aerox with ABS?  Obviously you can get it added on separately but I'm guessing this would cost more than the top model.

 

My two penneth....  Still no nearer to making a decision.  Think I will test drive the Aerox as a bit concerned about leg room from what I've read.

 

 

[Agusts]

A bit strange to compare or be in two mind of buying Wave or Aerox, totally different bikes...!

 

If you like Aerox with ABS just get it, it's fine with remote key, not a big deal , you get used to it in one week...

 

I read the seat is a bit high for pillion on that scooter, so maybe try it with your specific pillion to see if she is comfortable, if your ride two up a lot, other than that it's fine...

 

Of course Click is also a good bike for city, the Combo break on Click is very effective, with back drum brake, and if used in emergency - need to practice and get to use it instead of only front, it hardly locks any wheel, so kind of ABS - Honda likes to think...., that's why Honda does not put ABS on those smaller scooters - we have it on Forza though, Combi plus ABS on both rear and front disk brake wheels...

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Agusts

[stament]

27 minutes ago, Agusts said:

A bit strange to compare or be in two mind of buying Wave or Aerox, totally different bikes...!

 

Yes I know LOL.  I inititally wanted a semi-automatic but then was put off a bit by the lack of ABS and combi brakes plus they don't have the idling which is only a minor consideration.

 

[alx123]

Locked my PCX rear brake during an emergency braking last year and skidded a few meters in the middle of the road. Good thing the car following me has some distance behind and was able to brake on time. 

 

My riding jacket , helmet and gloves saved majority of my body. Upper body without any damage, except for some muscle pains. My knees and ankles weren't that lucky. 

 

I've practiced my emergency braking many times before, been riding for 20 years, so I thought I'll be fine in any emergency braking situation.

 

I was wrong, nothing will prepare you for a surprise emergency braking situation. 

 

Take advantage of the tech, get the ABS, preferably dual channel ones. I did not skid because I locked my front brakes, I know better than to use my front brake in that situation. It was the rear I applied a little too hard, so Dual channel ABS is better.  Honda's CBS is just a marketing ploy, it doesn't really help at all. 

My 2 cents..

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, alx123 said:

Locked my PCX rear brake during an emergency braking last year and skidded a few meters in the middle of the road. [...]

I did not skid because I locked my front brakes, I know better than to use my front brake in that situation.

Sounds more like you don't know what you are doing. "Emergency braking" without using the front brake? The stopping distance without the front brake is probably 3 times as long as with front brake. So what you felt was an emergency braking situation would have been a normal braking situation if you had used the brakes properly.

Edited September 25, 2020 by jackdd

[alx123]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Sounds more like you don't know what you are doing. "Emergency braking" without using the front brake? The stopping distance without the front brake is probably 3 times as long as with front brake. So what you felt was an emergency braking situation would have been a normal braking situation if you had used the brakes properly.

I usually use what I called progressive braking, where I apply a small increment  of front brake while letting the rear brake slow me down. After 20 more years of riding, it's all about feeling the brakes and slowing the bike as fast as possible without locking the brakes. The rear is mostly for slowing down, then I will only apply the front brake when I want to finally stop the scoot.  - This I did during emergency braking practice and actually works on  daily riding.

 

The car who cut me off came from the innermost lane of a 3 lane road, I didn't even see him coming and he suddenly just braked in front of me. It wasn't a normal braking situation, or else I would've reacted normally as well. If i have squeezed the front brake lever quickly, my front would've locked and I would've ended up worst than i did. 

 

But you're right, it was all a rider error. I have no excuse, just surprised and didnt reacted the way i should have. My reaction even surprised me. It's one time where ABS could've helped the scoot stay upright. What I'm trying to say is, in real emergency situations, you cannot trust your human reaction even if how good you think you are or how many times youv'e practiced it. There's just too many factors like nerves, adrenaline, fear, or even just being surprised that can result in an unpredictable reaction on your part. 

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:54 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Definitely go with ABS...  

 

Experienced motorcyclists will claim that no ABS is better which is absolute tosh when riding in a city with slippy surfaces and unpredictable traffic. 

 

Someone suddenly pulls out in front of you or cuts you off and you and grab slightly too much front brake with ABS and its no issue whatsoever, do so without ABS and you are on your <deleted>. 

 

 

To my recollection, I've only had to do a full on emergency braking twice. The first was in Cyprus back in the 70s when a car pulled up sharply in front of me. I hit the brakes and promptly went B over A! Fortunately there was no damage or injury.

 

The second one was earlier this year when I got squeezed too close to parked cars by an impatient pick up driver and then a car door was opened in front of me. Once again it was full on braking, but this time I was on my Aerox 155 ABS and I came to a very quick, very controlled straight line halt. No drama at all.

 

The point about emergency braking is that you can go out to a quiet place and practice all you want, but when you're doing that it does not simulate the 'fight or flight' adrenaline rush that a real emergency creates and that's when you just grab the levers as hard as you can before you even think about it.

 

I was a bit skeptical about spending the extra on ABS when I bought the Aerox, but not any more.

 

India i notice, has now made ABS mandatory on all new motorcycles. I would like to see it here as well.