American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[DrTuner]

Can't take bad reviews, don't run hospitality business. I also left a negative review on another hotel at Koh Chang - apparently the owner managed to block it as it never was published on Agoda. This is why you can't trust reviews about Thai places. Assume they are all flawed and skewed.

[rott]

11 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Get banged up for writing a bad review online or kill a cop whist drunk and coked up and spend not one second in jail. 
 

Yea, this seems fair in the broader context.  

It wasn't about "a" bad review, it was multiple bad reviews. Possibly they were distorted just like your post. The law specifically disallows such actions. 

[Flying Saucage]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

6,000bht for one night, 500bht corkage.

I wouldn't be staying there, far too expensive for me to pay.

 ........ and then arrested and put in jail ........... far better to stay at a 500bht/night hotel where they don't care what you do, or with whom IMHO.

Couldn't agree more. Cheap hotels give you much more freedom. When I travel for leisure, I always choose these. On my business trips it's another game, though.

[unamazedloso]

Oh well, he will do his time and head back to the US and really stuff things up for this hotel. Hotel should probably have thought this through. It's going to look a lot worse for them in the future because they took action. They could have shown proof to trip advisor which they themselves could see from the IP addresses and had the reviews removed. 

Self entitled yanks vs self entitled thais. Disaster waiting to happen!!

[johnmcc6]

A friend of mine along with several other expat unit owners complained by letter to management about burned out lights in corridors and dirty elevators. They got sued for defamation implying the manager was incompetent. End result. They each had to pay the offended manager 5000 baht to make it go away. Plus some legal fees. Thailand is not like where you came from.

[teacherclaire]

Yes, it's true. There are always two sides of a coin.

 

   Here's what happened, the whole litany  ( Dear Mods, I hope it's allowed to post this here)

 

 

 

    https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1309817382559391745/photo/1

Edited September 27, 2020 by teacherclaire

[rexall]

33 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

But not the ones running the business. They are the ones who lose money. 

Sooner or later, everything boils down to "face."  The confusion is that falang and Thai have entirely different perspectives about what it means to "lose face."  I did not read the story carefully enough to know if it was a mom & pop resort or some big, international outfit.  It makes a difference. If it is a big resort, oh, boo hoo! They lost the hypothetical value of a bottle of gin.  And now they may reap many times that loss if the story goes to the international press that a poor, pitiful American faces a fine and imprisonment for a negative comment about the resort! Not only that, indirectly they are harming other in the tourist industry.  How can that in any possible way be construed as  "saving face" for the hotel???  From a business standpoint, they should have just let it go.  

But the worst sin of all is airing dirty laundry in public. They can't stand it and won't put up with it! Oh,  boo hoo!

[John Drake]

13 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

here is the other half of the story:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8waPd4H/view

I read that. It seems that the charges that he made defamatory statements include statements themselves that might be defamatory.

[ClassySmasher]

What kind of imbecile would support this horrible abuse of power and cowardly bullying. Next, they start coming for you for posting on ThaiVisa. This resort needs to be avoided like a flat girl with corona and if no action is taken avoid Thailand at all cost. Hope this wasn’t Chinese influenced. 

[rott]

9 minutes ago, Myran said:

Meh, I'm on the hotel's side on this one. You don't bring outside beverages to a restaurant without expressively asking for it beforehand, and if they deny you, you accept it without arguing. I doubt he would've been taken to court if he had posted a 1-star review with his actual experience rather than acting like a drama queen..

In country towns restaurants do allow you to take your own bottles of spirits in, in a resort perhaps not. Even so it is courtesy to ask first. 

[Kaopad999]

25 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Get banged up for writing a bad review online or kill a cop whist drunk and coked up and spend not one second in jail. 
 

Yea, this seems fair in the broader context.  

No one is saying that it's fair that the red bull son got away with what he did, and i'm sure most people here will agree with that . But, it  was also unfair for the American to go out of his way to damage the good reputation of a business using multiple fake accounts,  just because he  couldn't get his own way. It's childish, extremely disrespectful, and potentially very damaging to someones livelihood.  I would have taken exactly the same steps if it were my business. 
And just to set the record straight, this was NOT just one negative review, but rather a multitude of personal attacks. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Kaopad999

[rexall]

3 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

A friend of mine along with several other expat unit owners complained by letter to management about burned out lights in corridors and dirty elevators. They got sued for defamation implying the manager was incompetent. End result. They each had to pay the offended manager 5000 baht to make it go away. Plus some legal fees. Thailand is not like where you came from.

It is all about "face."  It has nothing to do with whether the manager was actually incompetent or not, but that the unit owners said he was incompetent, and because of that, he might be perceived as incompetent.  It is all about appearances, and truth slides down the hierarchy of values somewhere at the bottom just about dinosaur poop! 

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

Couldn't agree more. Cheap hotels give you much more freedom. When I travel for leisure, I always choose these. On my business trips it's another game, though.

Freedom to do what? 

 

I havent in my whole grown up lifetime brought alchohol to a beach, swimmingpool, or restaurant where they serve you from the bar or restaurant. 

 

The good thing about hotels like sea view, you get away from the mainstream visitors who are there for one thing, and it is to drink and party. I was to Sea view in Koh Chang in 2007, and it was a boring, quiet far out from the center place to hideaway. But that is holiday for some people. 

[Orton Rd]

44 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

The problem started when he brought his own bottle of drinks into the restaurant, didn't want to pay the corkage fee and begun insulting the staff. So keep your insults to yourself.

where was the insult? asking 6k for a room is an insult imo. There is no evidence of him insulting the staff, he had a disagreement with the manager.

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, rott said:

It wasn't about "a" bad review, it was multiple bad reviews. Possibly they were distorted just like your post. The law specifically disallows such actions. 

Thanks. So many bad reviews. These reviews could easily have been deleted if it was obvious it was just a disgruntled guest. 
 

Yes, Thai law. You must respect these laws even if they are harsh. Thai law is very serious. Especially when dealing with people who don’t have the means to pay their way out. But If you’re rich, it suddenly becomes that they’re not so serious. Just buy your way out.

 

What wonderful justice. 
 

 

[hellohello123]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Though it does sound like this guy over reacted, that is somewhat besides the point here. It is the heinous defamation laws, and the willingness of the authorities to use them, at this time, that calls into question the horrible judgment of this administration.

 

At a time when the tourism industry is suffering it's worst crisis ever, this is just crazy dumb, tone deaf and a further demonstration that they have no idea how to fix this tragedy, and guys like Pipat and Prayuth are totally in over their heads.

 

The defamation laws were written by sold out cowards, to protect rotten players from reprisals, due to bad service, faulty products and bad business. They have no place in today's world. They represent a heinous over reach of toxic power. 

exactly, down turn of tourism, assuming you want your business to succeed,

you do everything to get customers through the door

 

if you dont have the common sense or prioritise face over your business, then thats your fault

 

I am always curious in situations like this, lets say the owner/manager in question are sitting there wondering why their bookings have decreased, will they ever learn? or will they sit there and say "oh well, at least I retained face, its worth it"

[ThailandRyan]

48 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

You could be right... 

My VPN says I am in Denver, but of course we know that is wrong.

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

No one is saying that it's fair that the red bull son got away with what he did, and i'm sure most people here will agree with that . But, it's also not fair to go out your way to damage the good reputation of a business using multiple fake accounts,  just because you couldn't get your own way. It's childish, extremely disrespectful, and potentially very damaging to someones livelihood.  I would have taken exactly the same steps if it were my business. 
And just to set the record straight, this was NOT just one negative review, but rather a multitude of personal attacks. 

So it’s a civil case. How a civil case ends up with someone in jail is ridiculous. 
 

You sue successfully if you can prove they’re lying and have lost you money. 
 

 

[rott]

5 minutes ago, johnmcc6 said:

A friend of mine along with several other expat unit owners complained by letter to management about burned out lights in corridors and dirty elevators. They got sued for defamation implying the manager was incompetent. End result. They each had to pay the offended manager 5000 baht to make it go away. Plus some legal fees. Thailand is not like where you came from.

That sounds extremely harsh, if as you say it was a private matter between them and the hotel and they did not make it public. 

 

But....... extract from Section 330, Thai Criminal Code. "the truth is not a defence for private matters that are not of benefit to the public." 

[chuang]

Kee Nok farang.....????

[FarFlungFalang]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

And bar girls. If I had a baht for every time one sent me a Line message, "I love you long time". Yep, about 5 minutes until the next customer walks through the door.

Yes bar girls are lying or is the word "wallet" to be naturally assumed as in "I love you wallet or ATM card long time"?It's also assumed said wallet or card is always easily accessible. 

[rexall]

3 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

No one is saying that it's fair that the red bull son got away with what he did, and i'm sure most people here will agree with that . But, it's also not fair to go out your way to damage the good reputation of a business using multiple fake accounts,  just because you couldn't get your own way. It's childish, extremely disrespectful, and potentially very damaging to someones livelihood.  I would have taken exactly the same steps if it were my business. 

"and potentially very damaging to someones livelihood. "

That sounds good, and it is an interesting theory (or excuse), but I wonder how real it is. What is this "damage," exactly?  Were not the resort as well as other readers free to post corrections, rebuttals, and share their own positive experiences? Are readers really so stupid as to be swayed by negative comments that obviously have no merit and are coming from a disgruntled guest?

As I said in other posts, my guess is that in the end, this is not gong to go well for the resort, no matter how indignant an damaged they believe themselves to be.  

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, Jack Hna said:

That's one hell of a corkage charge now. That leo from 711 just became one of the most expensive beers ever. 

 

Corkage is expensive, IME, usually, where ever you want it. Certainly used to be in the UK.

 

500 ThB seems reasonable. Hardly mega expensive.

 

Seems more like he didn't like several things, got on a downward spiral which the booze wouldn't have helped. Now his multiple bad reviews appear like a vendetta.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Baerboxer

[Christie Paul]

In an age in which sound bites carry far and wide - this situation may not help Thai tourism. 

[rexall]

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Thanks. So many bad reviews. These reviews could easily have been deleted if it was obvious it was just a disgruntled guest. 
 

Yes, Thai law. You must respect these laws even if they are harsh. Thai law is very serious. Especially when dealing with people who don’t have the means to pay their way out. But If you’re rich, it suddenly becomes that they’re not so serious. Just buy your way out.

 

What wonderful justice. 
 

 

Thailand prides itself on being independent and maintaining the integrity of it's culture and values.  That's fine, as far as it goes. The problem is if you are operating in globalization and doing business with an international clientele, you may not always get to do exactly as you like. That is even more true in a depressed industry in a depressed economy. Life is like that sometimes.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Christie Paul said:

In an age in which sound bites carry far and wide - this situation may not help Thai tourism. 

why? because  one arrogant western dick head can't stick to the know rules. Such people don't influence the thinking majority. 

[smew]

It should tell you something about the hotel, considering the resort name: '' Sea View Resort'' in Chiang Mai ???

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, smew said:

It should tell you something about the hotel, considering the resort name: '' Sea View Resort'' in Chiang Mai ???

Where in Chiang Mai is Koh Chang ?

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, smew said:

It should tell you something about the hotel, considering the resort name: '' Sea View Resort'' in Chiang Mai ???

It is in Koh Chang

[polpott]

18 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

My VPN says I am in Denver, but of course we know that is wrong.

Boulder?