Protesters scuffle with police at London anti-lockdown demo

[AndrewMciver]

Alot of these are football hooligans and thugs. 

 

Seen some clips on twitter - guess they haven't had their weekly fix of violence now they can't attend football games. 

 

Pathetic. 

[ravip]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're frightened, stay at home ......... then they are no risk to you.

TBH Yes, I am frightened! I am not a Rambo to charge along with a herd protesting against experts, governments and law enforcement people on the pretext of free speech and similar BS.

I totally observe the 'prevention is better than the cure' theory.

[stretch5163]

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

These are not people willing to  follow basic simple precautions.

If people had kept their  distance, limited their gathering in large crowded  groups, not forced infected people to  go to work, not continued to circulate when infected etc. much of the spread could have been halted. There is a reason why some countries are having explosions in the  number of infections: Some people are selfish jerks.

 

Tell that to the Swedish who seemed to manage without any lockdowns and pretty much carry on as normal ..... Kind of strange isnt it when some countries can do it and other countries seem to panic. Im working in a country at the minute andhave been since this all started as icant get back to Thailand and the people here also just dont give a f..k about it and are cracking on with life.

[TeaMonkey]

27 minutes ago, stretch5163 said:

Tell that to the Swedish who seemed to manage without any lockdowns and pretty much carry on as normal ..... Kind of strange isnt it when some countries can do it and other countries seem to panic. Im working in a country at the minute andhave been since this all started as icant get back to Thailand and the people here also just dont give a f..k about it and are cracking on with life.

And Sweden has had a pretty much normal year for mortality. It’s not the disaster that the news media are making it out to be. 
 

 

[onebir]

7 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What's more I am living in a part of Thailand that has been completely free of Covid 19 and there is very little chance of contracting.

 

But even here  many business's are closed down and there are few people around. Supermarkets and Robinson's are quiet even at weekends and restaurants are doing little business. Why is this?

 

I suspect they are doing what I've been doing and staying away because they. like me are fed up with the restrictions. There is more than one way to protest and 'voting with ones feet' is one them.

Or they don't believe the official stats, and are afraid of contracting covid...

[onebir]

1 hour ago, TeaMonkey said:

And Sweden has had a pretty much normal year for mortality. It’s not the disaster that the news media are making it out to be. 

Looking at the data on a week by week basis, they've had a distinctly abnormal year:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality

(see the charts of z score by country, near the bottom).

 

It was the other scandinavian countries, which did impose far more restrictions, and quite early if I'm not mistaken, that had "pretty much normal" years for mortality.

[TeaMonkey]

3 hours ago, onebir said:

Looking at the data on a week by week basis, they've had a distinctly abnormal year:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality

(see the charts of z score by country, near the bottom).

 

It was the other scandinavian countries, which did impose far more restrictions, and quite early if I'm not mistaken, that had "pretty much normal" years for mortality.

The country’s that locked down hard have only delayed the spread. There is still no guarantee of a successful vaccine. 
99.94% of the Swedish population have survived this. And those in the 0.058% had an average age of over 80 so many may of passed away anyway this year of flu or other illness. 
So it’s hardly the doomsday bug. 
 

[GinBoy2]

19 hours ago, Moonlover said:

The cracks are appearing in a number of countries now. Folks have, quite simply had enough of this now.

 

I've been of the opinion from the very early days that we should, once sensible precautions have been put in place to protect the vulnerable, let this disease run its course.

 

Mankind survived the flu pandemic of 1917/18 and collectively, our immune systems were probably the stronger for it. It's time to 'bite the bullet'.

My thinking has pretty much evolved to match yours.

 

Here in the US, the death rate is pretty much middle of the pack in terms of death per 100K.

 

People are just sick of it. Mask wearing, despite what you might read is pretty universal, not only in the States where it's mandatory.

 

We're not going to get out of this until there is an effective vaccine, so it's how do we live a relatively normal life?

 

I read the stories of draconian lockdowns and penalties in the UK, and I actually thank God my life, apart from wearing a mask outside, is pretty much normal.

 

Here in South Dakota mask wearing is not mandatory, whereas when we visited my daughter and our son in Colorado last week it is.

 

Curiously mask wearing compliance appeared pretty much the same.

 

I 'think' most people know what to do, without the heavy hand of the State. Granted there will always be idiots, but at least from my own personal experience most folks just do the right thing.  

Edited September 27, 2020 by GinBoy2

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

That's your two examples? A controversial outcome and a low density population state?

This is where I get conflicted.

 

Yes South Dakota is a very low density State, we're only 800K.

 

Yet the Sturgis motorcycle rally in early August added 250K people for 2 weeks, and trust me that demographic wasn't mask friendly!

 

We live in Rapid City, 20 miles from Sturgis, and as of right now Pennington County has a total of 218 deaths, far from the covid apocalypse that was predicted

[tribalfusion001]

People need to realise this is not going to end, this is just the start, there is no end to this pandemic. You can wear your masks and social distance, it will not make any difference, after the 2nd wave will be the 3rd wave and then the vaccine, then something else.

 

Klaus Schwab from the WEF said this is the new normal and pre covid will Never return, take heed of those words, because they are in control at present...

[Stargeezr]

Yes this virus is not the normal flu, it is not the Ebola death bug, Thank God, but

when the vaccines have been released and used for 2 or 3 years, we may be able

to relax a bit until the next pestulance hits us all.  It is not the end of the world,

except for everyone who has died of this virus so far.  Keep safe every one.

Geezer

[Grumpy John]

If your under 60 years of age and have no medical problems the need for worry is low.  60-75 with no medical problems moderate concern but if your dealing with a medical condition there is a lot to be worried about.  Over 75... ⏰

[simple1]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is where I get conflicted.

 

Yes South Dakota is a very low density State, we're only 800K.

 

Yet the Sturgis motorcycle rally in early August added 250K people for 2 weeks, and trust me that demographic wasn't mask friendly!

 

We live in Rapid City, 20 miles from Sturgis, and as of right now Pennington County has a total of 218 deaths, far from the covid apocalypse that was predicted

 

 

 

 

 

 

off topic, but maybe Mod will permit:

 

Weren't the attendees for the motorcycle event from all over the US, so I assume there are not accurate figures on the resultant spread of Covid. Out of curiosity, what is the per capita death rate from the figure you quoted for Pennington Country, how many were hospitalised in ICU, but recovered?

Edited September 27, 2020 by simple1

[polpott]

2 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

People need to realise this is not going to end, this is just the start, there is no end to this pandemic. You can wear your masks and social distance, it will not make any difference, after the 2nd wave will be the 3rd wave and then the vaccine, then something else.

 

Klaus Schwab from the WEF said this is the new normal and pre covid will Never return, take heed of those words, because they are in control at present...

What a happy chappie! Forgive me if I'd rather believe in science and am safe in the knowledge that handwashing, masks and distance really do make a difference and when we have a vaccine the world will be months away from breaking the back of covid.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

off topic, but maybe Mod will permit:

 

Weren't the attendees for the motorcycle event from all over the US, so I assume there are not accurate figures on the resultant spread of Covid. Out of curiosity, what is the per capita death rate from the figure you quoted for Pennington Country, how many were hospitalised in ICU, but recovered?

Actually I misquoted.

That number of deaths was for the entire State, Pennington County has had 37 deaths out of 2249 confirmed cases

 

As you can see there is no data from hospitalized and recovered.

 

But on State wide basis the rate is 27 deaths per 100,000

Edited September 28, 2020 by GinBoy2

[Morch]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is where I get conflicted.

 

Yes South Dakota is a very low density State, we're only 800K.

 

Yet the Sturgis motorcycle rally in early August added 250K people for 2 weeks, and trust me that demographic wasn't mask friendly!

 

We live in Rapid City, 20 miles from Sturgis, and as of right now Pennington County has a total of 218 deaths, far from the covid apocalypse that was predicted

 

I would guess most those attending were from other states. Given it can take a while for symptoms to appear, it's reasonable to assume that if there were infections and subsequent hospitalization, they would show up elsewhere.

 

When you say "predicted" it's kinda hard to relate not knowing which prediction or statistics or even time frame is referred to.

 

Could be wrong, but form the figures you've posted in your next post, seems like the county got a higher rate of infection and death than the state average? I'm in pre-coffee mode and the dog demands her TLC so maybe missing something (well, coffee...yes).

 

Also, wouldn't the demographic involved include less people of groups designated as being at risk?

 

 

[GinBoy2]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I would guess most those attending were from other states. Given it can take a while for symptoms to appear, it's reasonable to assume that if there were infections and subsequent hospitalization, they would show up elsewhere.

 

When you say "predicted" it's kinda hard to relate not knowing which prediction or statistics or even time frame is referred to.

 

Could be wrong, but form the figures you've posted in your next post, seems like the county got a higher rate of infection and death than the state average? I'm in pre-coffee mode and the dog demands her TLC so maybe missing something (well, coffee...yes).

 

Also, wouldn't the demographic involved include less people of groups designated as being at risk?

 

 

You are correct, the death rate for Pennington is 36 per 100K, but how much of that is due to a super spreader event, versus the fact we have a large retirement community, who knows, I'm not a statistician.

 

The fact remains that back to the UK case, I'm not sure how much these lockdowns work, and whats the trade off for devastating an economy?  

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

You are correct, the death rate for Pennington is 36 per 100K, but how much of that is due to a super spreader event, versus the fact we have a large retirement community, who knows, I'm not a statistician.

 

The fact remains that back to the UK case, I'm not sure how much these lockdowns work, and whats the trade off for devastating an economy?  

 

I think the first issue could be checked quite accurately, given the relatively low figures of population involved. Not that I have such an answer, obviously, but should be possible to figure it out. One example would be checking attendance of said retirement community in the event, or likelihood or interaction with crowds drawn by the event.

 

The lockdowns serve to slow down the spread of the pandemic and to ease the pressure on health services. Had the population been more cooperative with regard to other measures (masks, social distancing, washing hands etc.) then things may have been different. Also, I would guess that the UK's initial response had a lot to do with pandemic patterns later on.

 

No one argues that the economy does not suffer (and obviously, people effected). The trade off, in case of health services collapsing, would be having no economy, and possibly not much of a social order either.

 

It's not the end of the world, but it needs to be managed in order for it not to get worse. There isn't any recipe book on how to do that, there isn't enough accurate data - so governments try different things, and obviously policies sometimes shift.

 

On another note, people tend to focus on infections and fatalities. From what I read and hear, it seems like catching this thing doesn't quite end one's troubles when 'off the hook' - lingering effects are kinda nasty.

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed

 

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[simple1]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

State wide basis the rate is 27 deaths per 100,000

Seems to be a high number of deaths from Covid for a low-density population. Would I be correct there is / was low compliance to Covid mitigation advisories?

[anto]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

What a happy chappie! Forgive me if I'd rather believe in science and am safe in the knowledge that handwashing, masks and distance really do make a difference and when we have a vaccine the world will be months away from breaking the back of covid.

Covid is finished already .The real death rate is now a very low flat curve  Worldwide. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, anto said:

Covid is finished already .The real death rate is now a very low flat curve  Worldwide. 

 

If so, may have something to do with people being less dense about precautions.

[onebir]

13 hours ago, TeaMonkey said:

1> The country’s that locked down hard have only delayed the spread.

2> There is still no guarantee of a successful vaccine. 
3> 99.94% of the Swedish population have survived this. And those in the 0.058% had an average age of over 80 so many may of [sic] passed away anyway this year of flu or other illness. 
4> So it’s hardly the doomsday bug. 
 

1> This was precisely their goal: delay the spread so people who got sick could be treated.

2> Nothing is guaranteed. So what? But with time the chances of developing vaccines/ therapies increase. So the chances of saving lives relative to 'letting it run its course' improve.

3> How does this observation make the false contention that

18 hours ago, TeaMonkey said:

Sweden has had a pretty much normal year for mortality.

any more correct?

4> It's not being treated as a doomsday bug.

[polpott]

4 hours ago, anto said:

Covid is finished already .The real death rate is now a very low flat curve  Worldwide. 

Check out the UK and US. Its far from over. Check out the charts. The number of new cases globally is still rising exponentially.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by polpott

[TeaMonkey]

29 minutes ago, onebir said:

 

4> It's not being treated as a doomsday bug.

You can’t be serious with that comment. Really?

 

It was over in the UK back in June. 10x more people are dying from flu and pneumonia. Coronavirus doesn’t even appear now in the top 10 causes of death. But the government is keeping this going, bringing in even more restrictions based on laughable science. 

Dr John Lee appeared on the UK radio station talkRadio this morning with some good analysis. (I believe this link is allowed as it is a Government licensed station subject to broadcasting rules) 
 

 

 

[tribalfusion001]

4 hours ago, anto said:

Covid is finished already .The real death rate is now a very low flat curve  Worldwide. 

D Mike Yeadon in the UK says this pandemic finished months ago, if not spring in this year. This 2nd wave happening is driven by false positives with the PCR test and the fact it's now regular flu and cold season will just cloud what is going on. The deaths in the UK are recorded as covid-19 if tested positive up to 28 days, but what is not known if they were infectious or not. Seeing as 96% have serious multiple underlying conditions if would helpful to know if those who have died showed any symptoms or not or just tested positive. There is a big difference to just testing positive or being infectious.

[evadgib]

Another link from TalkRadio this morning

 

[tribalfusion001]

18 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

You can’t be serious with that comment. Really?

 

It was over in the UK back in June. 10x more people are dying from flu and pneumonia. Coronavirus doesn’t even appear now in the top 10 causes of death. But the government is keeping this going, bringing in even more restrictions based on laughable science. 

Dr John Lee appeared on the UK radio station talkRadio this morning with some good analysis. (I believe this link is allowed as it is a Government licensed station subject to broadcasting rules) 
 

 

 

Just posted this on my Facebook, another Dr who is speaking out.

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

You can’t be serious with that comment. Really?

 

It was over in the UK back in June. 10x more people are dying from flu and pneumonia. Coronavirus doesn’t even appear now in the top 10 causes of death. But the government is keeping this going, bringing in even more restrictions based on laughable science. 

Dr John Lee appeared on the UK radio station talkRadio this morning with some good analysis. (I believe this link is allowed as it is a Government licensed station subject to broadcasting rules) 
 

 

Excellent video, TeaMonkey.  To ask a question of those who argue the case of lockdowns, mask wearing, etc., ridicule those who want to get on with life, and espouse the doomsday nature of this virus have any of you watched this video?  And if you have what's your response?  Would sincerely like to get that response.

[tribalfusion001]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Another link from TalkRadio this morning

 

Quite true, they took a knee for them and used batons against us. And the crowd was mixed on Saturday, all colours, all religions.