2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

when I was in South Africa, in the apartheid era, they had what was called poor white trash. Couldn't compete with the blacks for the menial jobs. Quite an angry bunch.

The flight of manufacturing jobs to China gave rise to hundreds of thousands of blue collar unemployed in America. Trump became President promising to fix that. Like fixing healthcare, and winning a trade war, another empty promise.

Perhaps in the comfort of your suburban environment, which most middle class people have fled to from the US cities, you're unable to understand you now have poor white trash too.

 

I agree a lot of the civil unrest is caused by income equality.  The race card just gets pulled out every election year.  However, Trump has indeed reversed the outflow of jobs overseas, which is why many still support him.  My day-job is to design and integrate factories worldwide, up to 1M Sq ft each.  I witnessed a net outflow of manufacturing jobs during Obama and especially Bush eras.  That outflow reversed, even before Covid, under Trump.  Just a snapshot of the real world from the high tech industry.  By the way, the offshoring of jobs is a strategy to increase GDP by decoupling from labor (think Mckenzie), so that did not happen by accident.  I do not support that view due to the human cost, but that is for another thread.  This thread is 'orange man bad',  so time to don our black hoodies.

1 hour ago, Rambo69 said:

I said it already so I think this is a loaded question to bait me. But I'll answer it again, white supremacy is not a thing, white supremacists are a fringe movement, white supremacists are not burning down our cities, and white supremacists are not a threat to western civilization. 

 

But maybe you have a different definition of "white supremacy". Maybe you think all christian, patriot, law abiding, tax payers are "white supremacists". In that case you're right, we are sick of you calling us "white supremacists". And we will show you coming November 3rd.

I think it was Dr. Samuel Johnson who said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. OK, you are law abiding tax payers.

As I recall, the last white supremacist movement in government was the Afrikaners. If you are right, you are next come November 3. Be careful what you wish for. You think Trump will try to unite Americans? He'll double down on division.

You don't seem to understand there are about 25 million unemployed Americans, many of whom have lost the health insurance their employers provided. They are waking up to the fact with Trump trashing Obamacare simply because he hates Obama, they had better not get sick. As if the hospitals are not overflowing already, again on Trump's watch.

Trump hates Obama because Obama is everything Trump is not. Calm, dignified, respected. Trump can't comprehend respect can't be demanded, it has to be earned.

 

 

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You're comparing the Proud Boys to the Minute Men?  And you think Biden somehow controls Antifa and BLM?  You are really out their in your own paranoid fantasy land.

Really ironic.

 

The Minutemen's descendants now exist to campaign for less control by central government.

 

Anarchists primary goal is to decentralise government. Antifa is primarily an Anarchist movement.

 

Brothers from another mother?

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You're right, and it illuminates the course America will be set on if Trump wins. Isolationism.

I see parallels with the Roman Empire. It too was the pre-eminent military power of its time. It started to withdraw its reach after the defeat of Varus's legions in the Teutoburg forest, on ground suited to Arminius's tactics. Took another two centuries for the Roman Empire to fall. Still had the military might, fell because of the rot within.

Santayana said those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. He's right too.

Rome was not even sacked until 410 that was 300 years after Varus losing the legions and the empire grew larger after that, fixing one border on the Rhine was not isolationism. There are no valid parallels in America to the Roman empire, oh they do have a senate of course and did execute one of their great leaders! At a stretch there was the emperor Aurelian in 270 who pulled the empire together again, built a wall around Rome and reformed taxes, he was stabbed in the back literally after less than 5 years of doing a great job. Might be a connection there!

6 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

I agree a lot of the civil unrest is caused by income equality.  The race card just gets pulled out every election year.  However, Trump has indeed reversed the outflow of jobs overseas, which is why many still support him.  My day-job is to design and integrate factories worldwide, up to 1M Sq ft each.  I witnessed a net outflow of manufacturing jobs during Obama and especially Bush eras.  That outflow reversed, even before Covid, under Trump.  Just a snapshot of the real world from the high tech industry.  By the way, the offshoring of jobs is a strategy to increase GDP by decoupling from labor (think Mckenzie), so that did not happen by accident.  I do not support that view due to the human cost, but that is for another thread.  This thread is 'orange man bad',  so time to don our black hoodies.

Probably sackcloth and ashes would be more appropriate attire for whoever loses.

If Trump reversed the flow of manufacturing jobs, why are there 25 million unemployed Americans?

He has also screwed up the easy to win trade war. The Chinese are not giving him diddly squat, and American farmers are suffering accordingly.

IMO Americans are finding out government by tweet works fine with the fan base, not so hot with the real issues.

 

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Rome was not even sacked until 410 that was 300 years after Varus losing the legions and the empire grew larger after that, fixing one border on the Rhine was not isolationism. There are no valid parallels in America to the Roman empire, oh they do have a senate of course and did execute one of their great leaders!

Historians mark the beginning of the fall of the Roman Empire from the Emperor Commodus.

Actually, there's another parallel for you. Marcus Aurelius was the last emperor of the Pax Romana, he was succeeded by Commodus. I'm sure you can see the similarity.

14 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

You even sound like him!" I never say that!"" I did not mean use bleach! You missunderstand!" Happen before: President Trump on Thursday suggested medical experts should study exposing the human body to heat and light as a treatment for the coronavirus during Thursday's White House briefing by the president's task force on the virus.

This what he say we missunderstand also!?

Even my writing is really bad, seems like i know much better how listen English than any of Trump supporters!

   And, let's remember that Trump, himself, said he is never kidding with anything he says.  So, if he says he was just kidding with his advice to use bleach, that's just yet another lie.  That's the trouble with a serial liar--he tells so many lies he loses track of them.  In happier news, it looks like there will be a mute microphone button at the next debate so this loud, obnoxious, lying bully who will not obey the rules will at least be temporarily silenced while Biden is talking.  But, I liked the poster's idea for sound-proof booths better.  

1 minute ago, newnative said:

But, I liked the poster's idea for sound-proof booths better.  

A coffin would get my vote.

I managed to watch the entire show  but  can not face going back to look again to check that Trump did not even flinch, retaliate or repudiate Biden saying  he (Trump) is a liar and everyone knows it.

Quite a different reaction  to mention of taxes !

17 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

First debate didn’t change anyone’s mind, I bet...

 

17 hours ago, candide said:

For once, we agree. I expect today's poll figures to be in the same range as the days before.

As expected, no significant change in public opinion. Numbers are similar to previous days, across several polls. Only Rassmussen poll, which used to show better numbers for Trump than the other polls, is now similar to the others.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

3 hours ago, newnative said:

   And, let's remember that Trump, himself, said he is never kidding with anything he says.  So, if he says he was just kidding with his advice to use bleach, that's just yet another lie.  That's the trouble with a serial liar--he tells so many lies he loses track of them.  In happier news, it looks like there will be a mute microphone button at the next debate so this loud, obnoxious, lying bully who will not obey the rules will at least be temporarily silenced while Biden is talking.  But, I liked the poster's idea for sound-proof booths better.  

I can understand why, Trump probably doesn't need a microphone anyway. Volume over content.

3 hours ago, newnative said:

   And, let's remember that Trump, himself, said he is never kidding with anything he says.  So, if he says he was just kidding with his advice to use bleach, that's just yet another lie.  That's the trouble with a serial liar--he tells so many lies he loses track of them.  In happier news, it looks like there will be a mute microphone button at the next debate so this loud, obnoxious, lying bully who will not obey the rules will at least be temporarily silenced while Biden is talking.  But, I liked the poster's idea for sound-proof booths better.  

How disgusting is it that we have to actually float the idea out there that The President of The United States has to have a kill switch on his mic or put into a sound proof booth? Can you just picture Trump in a booth where you cant hear him but you can just watch him alternating between angrily ranting in silence (lip readers will have a field day) to sulking like a 3 year old who cant have a cookie...

 

There is no way Trump agrees to either of those things...for the sake of the nation I hope he doesn't agree to it because the rest of the world will watch on in a combination of shock, dismay, and glee as he continues to make a complete jack ass out of himself and the rest of us Americans.

12 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

There is no way Trump agrees to either of those things...for the sake of the nation I hope he doesn't agree to it because the rest of the world will watch on in a combination of shock, dismay, and glee as he continues to make a complete jack ass out of himself and the rest of us Americans.

We all love a bit of car crash TV and the debate was certainly that. Democrats are loving it too as trump crashes in the polls.

21 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

So what are the post-debate poll numbers?  How much support did Trump lose?

Latest Betting Odds

59.8

40.8

 Doubled the swing overnight

Betfair

October 1st

63

38

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/betting_odds/2020_president/ 

UPDATED 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/election-2020-prediction-markets-bettors-194536528.html

5 hours ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

I agree a lot of the civil unrest is caused by income equality.  The race card just gets pulled out every election year.  However, Trump has indeed reversed the outflow of jobs overseas, which is why many still support him.  My day-job is to design and integrate factories worldwide, up to 1M Sq ft each.  I witnessed a net outflow of manufacturing jobs during Obama and especially Bush eras.  That outflow reversed, even before Covid, under Trump.  Just a snapshot of the real world from the high tech industry.  By the way, the offshoring of jobs is a strategy to increase GDP by decoupling from labor (think Mckenzie), so that did not happen by accident.  I do not support that view due to the human cost, but that is for another thread.  This thread is 'orange man bad',  so time to don our black hoodies.

The reality was that jobs went overseas and automation continued. The only reason for any slight reversal was the wages did pick up in China.

1 hour ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

How disgusting is it that we have to actually float the idea out there that The President of The United States has to have a kill switch on his mic or put into a sound proof booth? Can you just picture Trump in a booth where you cant hear him but you can just watch him alternating between angrily ranting in silence (lip readers will have a field day) to sulking like a 3 year old who cant have a cookie...

 

There is no way Trump agrees to either of those things...for the sake of the nation I hope he doesn't agree to it because the rest of the world will watch on in a combination of shock, dismay, and glee as he continues to make a complete jack ass out of himself and the rest of us Americans.

 

If they introduce such changes, it would give Trump an opportunity to decline and paint it as if the 'media' assists Biden, and as if Biden couldn't face him 'on his own', and that it's 'very unfair'. I think that such a narrative will play well with Trump supporters, and up to a point, with swing voters.

 

On the other hand, the 'shock value' of Trump playing the bully, is of a limited shelf-life. Trump's term in office set the new normal of accepted behavior (from Trump, that is) at a very low level. Meaning, IMO, that people are by now familiar with this, and less socked with each instance. Not that they accept this in general - Biden acting in a similar manner would be crucified. So holding yet another debate while using the same paradigm, that's gonna play in Trump's favor as well.

 

Solution is somewhere in between - introduce mike-kill switch, apply it whenever a question is referred to either candidate. Or simply put them farther away (different locations altogether even).

2 hours ago, candide said:

 

As expected, no significant change in public opinion. Numbers are similar to previous days, across several polls. Only Rassmussen poll, which used to show better numbers for Trump than the other polls, is now similar to the others.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Those polls were taken before the debate.

On 9/30/2020 at 6:34 AM, pegman said:

Oh boy, Trump tells his Hitler Youth Brigade to "standby". 

more so brown shirts

8 minutes ago, wabothai said:

more so brown shirts

Red check shirts I reckon

On 9/30/2020 at 10:56 AM, PattayaJames said:

 

 

On 9/30/2020 at 11:03 AM, dunroaming said:

BBC headlines- "Presidential debate: Trump and Biden trade insults in chaotic debate"

Daily Telegraph- "Wednesday morning news briefing: Ugliest ever US presidential debate"

The Guardian- "Presidential debate live: Donald Trump tries to steamroll Joe Biden in chaotic clash"

 

The list goes on and on.

No need for further debates. 45 has no idea how to debate and again, as usual, lowers himself making nasty insults.

Don't blame the vice preident to tell 45 to shut up.

I am looking forward though to the debate between Harris and Pence.

2 minutes ago, wabothai said:

 

No need for further debates. 45 has no idea how to debate and again, as usual, lowers himself making nasty insults.

Don't blame the vice preident to tell 45 to shut up.

I am looking forward though to the debate between Harris and Pence.

You like crucifixions? IMO Harris will wipe Pence all over the debating floor.

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You like crucifixions? IMO Harris will wipe Pence all over the debating floor.

agreed !!

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You like crucifixions? IMO Harris will wipe Pence all over the debating floor.

Thats a given but I do like a good slash movie. Pity she's not running for president she would have mullered Trump yesterday.

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Thats a given but I do like a good slash movie. Pity she's not running for president she would have mullered Trump yesterday.

I had to Google mullered. Not sure there is an Oz equivalent.

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I had to Google mullered. Not sure there is an Oz equivalent.

Yes sorry a British term. I only used it because I couldn't think of an appropriate equivalent.

22 hours ago, riclag said:

 Sure it is!The video is brilliant ! He condemns all violence and hatred especially WS. He even condemned racisms as MLK relative in the background  was watching his back in support!

And now mr riclag it is almost 2021 and tells his proud boys to "stand by". 

2 hours ago, mthomsen111 said:

Those polls were taken before the debate.

Oops! You are right.

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I had to Google mullered. Not sure there is an Oz equivalent.

heard it long time ago and it's the same meaning as trounced

Not that I wish Biden any ill, but I was thinking if he had a heart attack, and Harris stepped in for the second presidential debate, Trump would be all at sea on what to do. If he attacked her the same way he did Biden, he could say goodbye to the women's vote. And I'm willing to bet she could give much better than she got.

24 minutes ago, wabothai said:

And now mr riclag it is almost 2021 and tells his proud boys to "stand by". 

 

It depends which one of them you're addressing - the 'swing voter' or the Trump supporter.