What percent of Thai vocab do you know?

[farang51]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It could explain why I keep getting an ice cold shirt when I order a beer

Next time, order a Chang.

[BananaBandit]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:39 AM, Exploring Thailand said:

A quick google search suggests that the average native English speaker has a vocabulary of around 20,000 words, so that is indeed surprisingly small.

That's an interesting statistic. If true, then it would mean the average native English speaker uses only about 4 percent (20,000 out of 470,000) of the complete lexicon. 

 

As this is a language subforum, I'm inclined to think most of us dorks would weigh in at slightly higher than 20,000. 

 

I can almost swear I've encountered native speakers in my homeland who have a vocabulary of less than 500.  They tend to compensate by using four-letter words as a noun, verb, preposition, auxiliary verb, modifying particle, etc.

 

I suspect the UK lumpenproletariat is somewhat more erudite than the 500 mark, but this is merely a hunch. I have no worthy supporting scholarship. 

[BananaBandit]

The vocabulary one would need to fully comprehend basically any article in a general interest Thai newspaper or magazine constitutes about what percent of the reported 20,000 words in the Thai lexicon?

[EricTh]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:24 PM, Lacessit said:

I can write my first name in Thai. I can communicate with Thais on a reasonable level, although I frequently get lost when a Thai responds to me on the assumption I am fluent in Thai. If I stick to simple phrases that only require a simple response, I'm usually OK. Yesterday, I was able to ask where the swimming goggles were in Big C, and take in aisle directions.

It gets more difficult the older one gets, but old farts like me should stick with it, because it's excellent mental exercise for warding off Alzheimer's.

Problem is, a lot of the words up here in Chiang Rai are not Thai, but Lao.

They are NOT Lao but Lanna language.

 

Lao is another language spoken in Isaan and Laos.

 

 

[rumak]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

I can make out text messages in Thai.

ทำอะไรอยู่ คิดถึงจังเลย    you wouldn't be getting messages like this,  would you  ????

[BananaBandit]

10 hours ago, EricTh said:

They are NOT Lao but Lanna language.

 

Lao is another language spoken in Isaan and Laos.

ไผ่อยู่นี้เว้าลาวได้

[BananaBandit]

13 hours ago, kenk24 said:

If you are reading books and newspapers, you are doing very well... I can make out text messages in Thai. I am conversational. Never had any schooling. I don't really know the tones but I do know the different sounds of the words and I speak in sentences so if I miss a tone, they still get it - mostly.. 

Am reading newspapers quite alright, though the headlines on page 1 are often difficult. Lots of abbreviations. Also, there's something about the newspaper headline font that's not very conducive to my reading. Perhaps that will change with added experience.  

 

Books generally give me more trouble than newspapers. I wish to read the history ones, and these often have lots of special vocabulary, reserved for situations involving royalty. Several months ago, I tried reading a romance book at 7 with very little success. I believe such literature uses lots of informal lingo. Additionally, I was battling a sentiment that told me the book was a waste of time, even if I did manage to comprehend it. 

[BananaBandit]

13 hours ago, kenk24 said:

The odd thing is that some people I can speak with all day w/no issues and other people, we can barely make things out... but most people - ok.

Some people just can't understand my attempt to speak (Or maybe they want to avoid the interaction).

 

Conversely, there are some people whose accents I find unintelligible. They are almost always men,
particularly men with deep, guttural voices. It just sounds like they're clearing their throat to me.

 

This pandemic stuff, with all these masks, is often an added impediment. 

[1FinickyOne]

11 hours ago, rumak said:

คิดถึงจังเลย

this part, yes, sometimes... 

[1FinickyOne]

2 minutes ago, BananaBandit said:

Some people just can't understand my attempt to speak (Or maybe they want to avoid the interaction).

 

Conversely, there are some people whose accents I find unintelligible. They are almost always men,
particularly men with deep, guttural voices. It just sounds like they're clearing their throat to me.

 

This pandemic stuff, with all these masks, is often an added impediment. 

what I also run into is that learning through speaking, and living w/a Northern Thai/ village speaking family, I don't know if the words I know are Northern, Central or even Isaan... my BIL is my groundskeeper here and he speaks Isaan - and Thai and Chinese but I can understand him only when he speaks really slowly... my housekeeper is from Burma/China border and she only speaks northern... again, I get only about 1/2... my wife and I partly have our own language where we understand and accept certain mispronunciations... 

 

I am more a semi-competent hack than a student... 

[KhaoNiaw]

I do a lot of Thai-English translation, especially company reports and business material, but a lot of other things as well. Vocabulary can be used quite repetitively in Thai, which wouldn't be good style in English. I don't know how many words I have in my Thai vocabulary but there are always new things to learn. Badly written Thai can be horrible to work on, and Thais often seem surprised that I catch spelling mistakes or work out the meaning of material that's been written poorly in the first place. 

[BananaBandit]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:26 AM, Peterw42 said:

The problem I have with Thai, isn't learning more words, its the fact that for every Thai word I learn there are 3-4 other words that sound identical. Every new word I learn seems to reduce my ability to use the language.

I think a lot of us can relate. 

 

It sometimes seems that learning one word, more than anything else, clues me into the abyss of ignorance beneath my knowledge. 

 

For me, big words are easier. 

 

The problem is with those short words that sound similar to so many others. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by BananaBandit
superfluous gerund

[BananaBandit]

1 hour ago, KhaoNiaw said:

I do a lot of Thai-English translation, especially company reports and business material, but a lot of other things as well.

The 1000 Baht question is: 

 

Can you translate English into (professional-looking) Thai ??

Edited October 6, 2020 by BananaBandit

[BananaBandit]

1 hour ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Thais often seem surprised that I catch spelling mistakes

A somtam lady near me wrote a   ๒    instead of a   ๆ    on a sign in front of her somtam bench. 

 

Is this acceptable practice in some circles?    Or is it a mistake?    If it's a mistake, it might be the first one I've ever caught in a foreign language.

[KhaoNiaw]

19 minutes ago, BananaBandit said:

The 1000 Baht question is: 

 

Can you translate English into (professional-looking) Thai ??

Not really, it will come out pretty rough. Professional translators generally only translate into their first language. One of the problems in Thailand is that a lot of Thai translators claim they can work both ways and their Thai-English translations are below par. 

[KhaoNiaw]

15 minutes ago, BananaBandit said:

A somtam lady near me wrote a   ๒    instead of a   ๆ    on a sign in front of her somtam bench. 

 

Is this acceptable practice in some circles?    Or is it a mistake?    If it's a mistake, it might be the first one I've ever caught in a foreign language.

A mistake I'd say.

[BananaBandit]

23 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Professional translators generally only translate into their first language. One of the problems in Thailand is that a lot of Thai translators claim they can work both ways and their Thai-English translations are below par. 

I think I recall having read a few professional-caliber English articles with Thai names on the byline. 

 

Were these particular journalists just exceptionally gifted?

 

Or were they ลูกครึ่ง  who were raised สองภาษา (or perhaps English ภาษาแรก) ?

 

Or are such articles typically polished-up by a native English speaker before hitting print?

 

คุณคิดแนวใด

Edited October 7, 2020 by BananaBandit

[BananaBandit]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:49 PM, KhaoNiaw said:

Vocabulary can be used quite repetitively in Thai, which wouldn't be good style in English.

Do you mean the same exact word is often used copiously?

 

Or do you mean that, a lot of times, three words with essentially the same definition will be strung together? 

 

I've actually noticed the second item more frequently, but my reading experience is still quite limited. 

[tgeezer]

On 10/6/2020 at 5:26 AM, BananaBandit said:

A somtam lady near me wrote a   ๒    instead of a   ๆ    on a sign in front of her somtam bench. 

 

Is this acceptable practice in some circles?    Or is it a mistake?    If it's a mistake, it might be the first one I've ever caught in a foreign language. 

39 minutes ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

Sorry I intended to answer but changed much mind and I can't change the fact that I clicked on "quote". 

3 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

I think I recall having read a few professional-caliber English articles with Thai names on the byline. 

 

Were these particular journalists just exceptionally gifted?

 

Or were they ลูกครึ่ง  who were raised สองภาษา (or perhaps English ภาษาแรก) ?

 

Or are such articles typically polished-up by a native English speaker before hitting print?

 

คุณคิดแนวใด

Could be anything, I know a General who went to a boarding school in England and teaches In the Army who speaks perfect English. Another General's nephew goes to Charterhouse £30,000 a team but I think that they hope for better than journalism for him! 

I was interested in คิดแนวใด I have never heard it but it is very good I think. I say คิดอย่างไร I don't know if it is Thaigrit or not, both are understandable to me. Since ไหน means อะไร คิดไหน should be understandable too; Common usage is what determines the meanings of words, poets can do what I do and have it accepted. I know that I am not a poet but it doesn't stop me because Thais or the forum will put me straight when I get it wrong, 

To answer the topic, I know a very small percentage of Thai words but I am comforted by the fact that  Thai has too many words and English is ridiculously in surplus. 

[1FinickyOne]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:24 PM, Lacessit said:

it's excellent mental exercise for warding off Alzheimer's.

studies show that the 'crossword puzzle' style of warding off alz works for a brief period in delaying the onset but when it does come on, it comes more quickly... 

 

I am afraid this is a fear for most of us, until we get it, then we don't care... 

[mrwebb8825]

I speak what I've dubbed "School Thai" because 90% of it relates to topics I teach in English and shortcuts in Thai help in many areas better than long, enunciated, demostitive English explanations. I don't read or write any but will give that a try when I finally retire in 2 years. I did learn the Ko-Kai (under the "D" on the keyboard) 1 down, 45 to go ????

 

ETA: given some of the atrocities posted here in English it might be a good follow-up question to ask; "How much of the English vocabulary do you know? ???? 

Edited October 8, 2020 by mrwebb8825

[TKDfella]

Like other members have said, it does depend on many things; one's inclination and abilities, memory etc. It can also depend on one's surroundings, neighbours, friends and so on. I*'ve always like a fair degree of independence but that means having to do things for myself so learning as much Thai as I could (read, write) was important. Ha, sometimes I do raise my eyebrow with proverbs like the equivalent of 'Out of the frying pan into the fire' หนีเสือปะจระเข้, Escape from the Tiger only to meet the Crocodile. 'keeping up with the Joneses' เห็นช้างขี้ ขี้ตามช้าง...I'll let the interested translate that one, Ha!

Edited October 8, 2020 by TKDfella

[Ombra]

On 10/5/2020 at 1:49 PM, Oxx said:

 

Uh, the RID is the definition of Thai vocabulary.  It is the official, authoritative dictionary.  There are three supplements of new words that I didn't count, but that's not going to bump the numbers up very much.

 

LEXiTRON gives higher numbers because it has separate Thai entries for each corresponding English definition.  So, for example, จด is counted three times, as "write", "reach" and "be continguous".

 

As for Anki, I'm not familiar with it, but when you write "Thai Anki deck including words, phrases, expressions, synonyms, slang, abbreviations, etc." I presume that each of those is counted as a single entry, so the total not a count of Thai words.

This is an important point, I think. For English, counting word families rather than every single word gives you vastly different numbers. 'Use', for example, gives you the inflected forms (uses, used, using) and many derived forms (user, useful, reuse, disuse, usable, misuse, and so on).

[FNQ]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:28 PM, Don Mega said:

Enough to communicate with staff at work but asking for something at the 7/11 has the staff looking at my like I have 2 heads !!

same, asked for Soda water, Nope ! Asked for Nam soda ,Nope !

 Staff eventually said you want SodA with the emphasis on the 'A'.

Initial thoughts were, they are taking the <deleted>. lol

[TKDfella]

8 minutes ago, FNQ said:

same, asked for Soda water, Nope ! Asked for Nam soda ,Nope !

 Staff eventually said you want SodA with the emphasis on the 'A'.

Initial thoughts were, they are taking the <deleted>. lol

น้ำโสดา Naam (Nam) Sodaa is indeed correct and there should be no emphasis as the 'ด' = a normal 'd' sound. 'ต' the td is the consonant used for the extra 'puff' or emphasis. But the vowel is long, 'aa' rather than short 'a'. So perhaps you initial thoughts were correct, Ha!

[LawrenceN]

Too many to count. 

 

I was astonished a few years ago when a British friend proudly told me he knows 1,000 words. I figured he took some sort of a test that produced an accurate estimate. But, no, he told me he went through his dictionary and actually counted the words he knows. Who has time for that? 

[LawrenceN]

5 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

น้ำโสดา Naam (Nam) Sodaa is indeed correct and there should be no emphasis as the 'ด' = a normal 'd' sound. 'ต' the td is the consonant used for the extra 'puff' or emphasis. But the vowel is long, 'aa' rather than short 'a'. So perhaps you initial thoughts were correct, Ha!

It's น้ำโซดา. The way you spelled it would have a rising tone on the first syllable, which it doesn't have. Both syllables are mid tones and equal in emphasis. 

[TKDfella]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

It's น้ำโซดา. The way you spelled it would have a rising tone on the first syllable, which it doesn't have. Both syllables are mid tones and equal in emphasis. 

Yes, my error.

[LawrenceN]

19 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Sorry I intended to answer but changed much mind and I can't change the fact that I clicked on "quote". 

Could be anything, I know a General who went to a boarding school in England and teaches In the Army who speaks perfect English. Another General's nephew goes to Charterhouse £30,000 a team but I think that they hope for better than journalism for him! 

I was interested in คิดแนวใด I have never heard it but it is very good I think. I say คิดอย่างไร I don't know if it is Thaigrit or not, both are understandable to me. Since ไหน means อะไร คิดไหน should be understandable too; Common usage is what determines the meanings of words, poets can do what I do and have it accepted. I know that I am not a poet but it doesn't stop me because Thais or the forum will put me straight when I get it wrong, 

To answer the topic, I know a very small percentage of Thai words but I am comforted by the fact that  Thai has too many words and English is ridiculously in surplus. 

I think of อะไร as "what" and ไหน as "which." ใด usually means "any."

[TKDfella]

20 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Sorry I intended to answer but changed much mind and I can't change the fact that I clicked on "quote". 

Could be anything, I know a General who went to a boarding school in England and teaches In the Army who speaks perfect English. Another General's nephew goes to Charterhouse £30,000 a team but I think that they hope for better than journalism for him! 

I was interested in คิดแนวใด I have never heard it but it is very good I think. I say คิดอย่างไร I don't know if it is Thaigrit or not, both are understandable to me. Since ไหน means อะไร คิดไหน should be understandable too; Common usage is what determines the meanings of words, poets can do what I do and have it accepted. I know that I am not a poet but it doesn't stop me because Thais or the forum will put me straight when I get it wrong, 

To answer the topic, I know a very small percentage of Thai words but I am comforted by the fact that  Thai has too many words and English is ridiculously in surplus. 

I have heard คุณคิดแนวใด a couple of times, 'which, what way (do) you think?' Although แนว usually means 'line' I wonder if it is a shortened แนวทาง which is 'way' 'trend' 'direction' etc. ใด can mean 'what' when' as in เมื่อใด เหตุใด, 'when' & '...what reason'. But I think maybe the 'ไร' syllable is more common

Edited October 8, 2020 by TKDfella